Arrest improvement

[Tremere]

Currently when you try and arrest someone they have to submit or you have to beat them into submission. The thing is there is no way to try and force someone into cuffs without beating them into a pulp, so you get instances where someone isn't trying to harm someone and just wants to non violently bring them in, but someone will just continue to refuse to consent, but won't leave and just sits there using that there is no way to force the issue in order to avoid it.

My thought is that a second input of the arrest command would initiate a contest between the initiator and the (for want of a better term) victim. Policy wise this would only be done after someone has given a chance to submit and what not.

[Zeita]

Could perhaps put a timer on being able to issue the second 'enforce arrest' type of command. 30-60 mins after the initial arrest request is submitted?

[Kinaed]

I think a time-out to respond would be okay, but otherwise, I don't agree that an arrest should be non-violent just because that's the idea of the person making the arrest. Arrests will never come down to a dice roll on stats or luck. If a person resists, the arresting party will have to beat them down and show them who is boss.

In the meantime, I recommend that if a player has not accepted or begun to fight an arrest, contact a staff member.

[Dice]

It strikes me as odd because there's a form of physical forceful resistance that isn't at all covered right now by code - grappling.

In the real world, when someone is arrested and they fight, you don't tend to beat them unconscious - you try to shove them down, pin them, etc. til you can slap the cuffs on.

I've often thought we could use some sort of support for grappling, a combat action that doesn't necessarily inflict damage but causes the other person to be helpless (i.e., they can't run away or resist arrest any longer) so long as the grapple is successfully maintained. Perhaps like an 'attack' in that it uses the attack value for your unarmed skill instead of a flat-up skill check, vs. the person's defense, but instead of inflicting injury it slaps on an aff if it succeeds by a large enough margin that prevents flee and forces submission to the next arrest attempt?

[Applesauce]

I think the idea of "submit" covers non-violent forcing. If they don't type it right away, but you RP that you're trying to force them without knocking them out, the scene could progress to a point where the player is willing to type submit after all. If not, then they're telling you that they're resisting to the point of needing to be knocked out.

Or can you not give them a second chance if they don't submit immediately? I'm not too familiar with the arrest process anymore, but "arrest, then both sides emote 3 or 4 times, then target submits" should be possible if it's not already.

[Onyxsoulle]

It might be the violent person inside of me, but I honestly don't see what the issue is.


If they refuse to submit, even if they are being nice and polite, it is still resisting arrest. This means that the player doing the arresting are within their rights to beat the tar out of their target.

Now, it might be polite to oocly warn the victim that they are being given a last chance to submit before violence ensues, but that's really up to the people in the scene.

[Beronica]

as a person who recently went through an arrest where the person would not submit and would not actively (i.e fight back) resist arrest, it would be nice to have a non-violent or less violent alternative. Especially since my character knew unarmed combat and could conceivably pin down the person to force the arrest.

[Applesauce]

...as a person who recently went through an arrest where the person would not submit and would not actively (i.e fight back) resist arrest, it would be nice to have a non-violent or less violent alternative...

I think by definition there is none. Any non-combative strategic coercion you might come up with can be RPed as such. If the player flat out refuses to submit again and again, even though you are doing your best to non-violently cuff them, then they're telling you as a player that you literally HAVE to step it up. They're resisting your non-violent ways and you have to do more if you want to force them into cuffs.

"Forcing" them without force seems like mincing words. Either you proved you can do it without violence (at which point they codely submit) or you didn't, and now have to punch them in the face.

If you're saying the person is cheating by avoiding or preventing the arrest, then that's something that should definitely be addressed, but changing arrest to get around it seems like the wrong approach IMO.

It's like when someone drops link when you're trying to arrest them - you don't have to get a code command that lets you arrest them anyway, it's just policy to transfer someone to jail in that type of situation.

Edit: Maybe the threshold for arrest could be adjusted upward so you don't literally have to INCAPACITATE someone, but maybe if they're at 50% or 25% health they're cuffable? This would mean you still have to physically subdue the person, but removes the stigma of beating them nearly to death.

[Dice]

Love the 50% or 25% threshold. It's the weird black and white of "they submit or you beat them until they are LITERALLY incapacitated" that's always seemed inappropriate to me. Using just enough violent force to overpower them seems a better way to model grappling them into submission.

[Geras]

Perhaps something based around the gap between two players? If you're both at 50% or 25%, I don't think arrest should be an "I win" button, but if you're overpowering someone, yah. A technique perhaps? If this come in game? Ideally one open to all players, and with a spell or magecraft equivalent.

Someone not resisting and not submitting at the same time though... that's bad RP and there should be a way to close that gap.