Log of OOC Meeting - 2020/1/16

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Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:46 pm

Kinaed states, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Kinaed says, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

Sparkles claims, "I have a topic."

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "Got you. :)"

Kinaed questions, "Anyone else? :)"

Kuzco claims, "I'm good or I forgot, the usual"

Kinaed chuckles and nods.

Kinaed claims, "Okay let's kick off the Staff Updates while Sparkles jots down her topic intro :)"

Kinaed claims, "Last week... I'm sure I did something. Oh, we reviewed the Mage Guild proposal and sent back a few questions to the author."

Kinaed states, "I don't think there was any policy that was raised to staff, so thanks everyone for playing maturely and well with one naother :)"

Kinaed asks, "I'm sure I had some action item or another, but am not sure I got anywhere with it. Oh, I did cross off that I wrote the Event Scheduler spec. Not sure if I've shared with anyone as of yet. Has everyone here seen it?"

Deedee states, "Sounds like you got ahead of some policy though"

Deedee states, "(Re: recent ban)"

Kinaed states, "Oh yeah, I did that too."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Anyway, for me - this coming week I've got some action items to help Temi with a quest system and I'm sitting on some stuff for the website revamp"

Kinaed trails off, "That's it for me - up next is..."

Kinaed rolled 1d4 for a pool of: 1. [Th544]

Kinaed states to Eos, "You're up :)"

Sparkles queries, "One curiousity I always wondered about the Event Scheduler ... how far in advance does code know holidays?"

Kuzco states, "And which country's holidays"

Eos says, "I have been collecting some more logs, waiting for two more, and then I'm happy, so that's done. Salem and me have been working on the OOCly monthly reminder to GLs to promote their members and made some progress. We'll soon look at code to have broken items be repairable."

Kinaed says, "'know' is theoretically years. Display is based on what we calculate."

Kinaed states, "I think that's IC holidays, Kuzco :)"

Temi claims to Kuzco, "Lithmore country's"

Kuzco states, "Doubt you guys care about the Falkland War anniversar-- ah"

Kinaed says to Eos, "That's great. Thank you :)"

Temi states, "Code can compute them out.. but any downtime messes up those calculations"

Kinaed rolled 1d3 for a pool of: 1. [Th544]

Kinaed states, "Ghed, you're up :)"

Kinaed says, "We tell players what you did last week, and what you're doing next week, basically :)"

Ghed clears his throat and smiles, "Hi. New kid in the block. Your staff is great and so are you."

Anonymous states, "YOUUUUUUUU"

Anonymous says, "Hi"

Ghed states, "I have been slowly learning helpfiles, staff documentation, and handling minor requests"

Ghed says, "Eventually I will be replacing most of Niamh's stuff. Or a big part at least."

Ghed says, "For now, please be patient as I don't know how to do most things like a server restart."

Kinaed grins.

Ghed nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed rolled 1d2 for a pool of: 1. [Th544]

Kinaed says to Salem, "You're next :)"

Salem states, "I have been helping Eos with some Items and wrangling the code into a better form. Working slowly but surely."

Ghed meant 'taking over' not 'replacing'

Kinaed queries to Temi, "Wrap us up?"

Kinaed grins at Ghed.

Temi states, "Well, I've done some how to build lessons for our staffers who are less familiar with that."

Eos nods.

Temi claims, "I've also put in some people helpfiles for old royals that our lovely historians helped to write up."

Kinaed declaims, "Oo, sweet! Yay Historians!"

Sparkles claims, "Nice, nice."

Temi claims, "And I've been trying to fill out our plans for the skill mini-quests."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi says, "Making slow and gradual progress there."

Kinaed muses, "Do you think it's something we might be able to outsource to the pbase a bit on the forums or something?"

Temi says, "Maybe at some point."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Sparkles queries, "Or ask GLs for ideas if Guildskills will be included?"

Sparkles ponders.

Temi claims, "I need to at least flesh out more of what the normal ones will look like at this point"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi claims, "But may get help once it gets to the harder ones that I'm short on ideas for"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Sparkles nods.

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed muses, "Okay, next on our agenda is: Player Heartbeat. How was the game this week, folks? :)"

Kinaed asks, "No one has anything to share?"

Anonymous claims, "I met an inquistior"

Kinaed smiles.

Anonymous queries, "Does that count?"

Sparkles states, "A bit slower, but I've been happy to see lots of cyans and newer players both on grid and in the Discord."

Kinaed pontificates, "Yes!"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Anonymous states, "I also did some metric shenanigans."

Anonymous claims, "Aaaaaaand I got it trouble with the King"

Souless claims, "Pretty great, for the most part."

Anonymous says, "Aaaaaaaand that generated a few scenes that were nice."

Kinaed states, "That sounds good to hear :) Glad people are having some fun."

Kuzco states, "I've been a little less active"

Kuzco claims, "I wanna propose a craft tho"

Temi asks, "Meaning an individual one or a single recipe?"

Kinaed muses to Kuzco, "Please put it in the Ideas and Requests forum?"

Kuzco says, "Aye"

Vincent says, "Hello, hello."

Kinaed states to Vincent, "We're in the Player Heartbeat section, discussing how the game was for people last week :)"

Kinaed muses, "Anything shitting anyone that they want staff to be aware of? (That isn't already a topic :))"

Kuzco noes

Kinaed grins.

Vincent shakes head

Kuzco yesn't

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, let's move to player topics! First up is..."

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "Your topic? :) Please introduce us."

Sparkles says, "Ah, it's something I've mentioned before as it kind of makes the rounds from time to time. "

Kinaed questions, "No harm in revisiting things occasionally. What's up?"

Sparkles says, "But trying to ponder how to balance or answer the concerns about older characters that seem to crop up in a cyclical nature."

Kuzco muses, "This about the Age Disability forum post?"

Kinaed asks, "Can you be more specific about which ones we're discussing?"

Sparkles claims, "Yes, the Age Disability forum post, but eventually a lot of topics seem to eventually end up there."

Kinaed muses, "I'm not sure where you mean per se? "

Ghed queries to Sparkles, "Can you please post the link here?"

Sparkles declares, "Sure!"

Ghed says, "Thank you."

Sparkles muses, "Http://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2373"

Temi questions, "The crux of the issue being a balance between rewarding older characters for being around a long time and having the ability to do a lot of different things over the time, and allowing newer characters to make their way up?"

Kuzco states, "Or just rolling an older folk in"

Kuzco says, "The average age of 18 for our pcs is self evident"

Sparkles claims, "I think so, yes. Though I think a lot of the time the conversation becomes focused on nuances of code when ultimately people's feelings are about a lot of intangible things."

Kinaed claims, "In a general sense, with 'older players' - across all games, the game industry has a view that players tend to go through a lifecycle. It's interested with TI because in an RPG game like this, theoretically there's no end to the stories people can tell. However, in practice, players often exhaust material faster than developers can develop... which is often the case around requests for new systems, etc."

Anonymous was special and rolled an age of 21

Kinaed claims, "In a specific sense, I agree that the age penalties may be too harsh and need looking at, but they're not the highest priority of our list of things, and we have limited programming hours."

Kinaed says, "So that specific forum post is slated for more interaction."

Vincent claims, "I didn't even know there were age penalties for older characters. "

Kinaed claims, "Younger and older both."

Anonymous trails off, "Under 16 and after... I thin kit's 40"

Anonymous states, "Your stats and physical skills like fighting stuff get a malus"

Kinaed claims, "Basically, a 6 year old grandmaster of sword is nerfed. Same with a 90 year old one."

Wimpled claims, "I think the penalties are appropriate and help make sure there's some movement in roles, but I think sometimes experiencing that shift with a long-term character can be difficult. I personally have enjoyed them, though. "

Anonymous states, "I know one older character who is a grandmaster in a weapon and he was nerfed down to adept level because of age"

Kinaed says, "The news that we're receiving is that the penalties are probably harsher than reality at this point in time, so we need to look at that. It was intended to be a sliding scale over time."

Wimpled claims, "My grandmaster doesn't automatically go away. "

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Wimpled claims, "It's a big nerf to the lower skills, but it isn't to mastered at 74 or grandmastered."

Wimpled says, "I frankly think some folks may think they are a combat character when they don't have the learn slots invested to really back it up."

Temi claims, "We haven't looked at how extreme it is in a long time, though I do think we like the idea of it still"

Kinaed claims, "If we're playing human characters, then it's only realistic that age will play a part in ability."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Anonymous will one day potentially have to watch his 7 masteredgrandmastered combat skills drop to adept

Anonymous states, "Tis sobering"

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Kuzco states, "I don't think they are THAT harsh tho"

Wimpled claims, "I have a high level of grandmastered and mastered and I can still toss around in a fight, but if you have mostly adept or nothing grandmastered, then it is going to be extreme."

Kuzco claims, "I rolled Norrig at age 34 I think and I've had lots of fun for years"

Kinaed claims, "They don't drop, they're just less effective under the hood. Your grandmaster remains a grandmaster."

Anonymous handily succeeds his Combat check! [Th544]

Vincent asks, "Does the drop mean anything for teaching the skill?"

Wimpled states, "Nope"

Wimpled states, "Teaching isn't impacted."

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Anyway, the specific post about age affecting characters (coded age - so we've recently had new characters come into game that were actually elderly off the bat)"

Wimpled says, "It's just my grandmaster will show up as mastered if I display my skill and if I fight it's at that level."

Kinaed claims, "We planned to review that one."

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Wimpled says, "Personally, I think it's appropriate. "

Wimpled claims, "But I already opined all over that thread."

Kinaed says, "Reviewing doesn't mean falling to one side or another though."

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Kuzco claims, "Same"

Kinaed claims, "Now, if we're speaking more broadly about how to keep our core pbase of elder players engaged throughout the lifecycle of 'this is new and shiny!' 'omg, I love it!' 'been there, done that'... that's a different conversation."

Kinaed asks, "Is that the conversation we want to discuss?"

Temi claims, "I think the current concerns were more about the actual coded effects of age, or other code to limit longevity of characters"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kuzco states, "Mhm"

Kinaed declaims, "I'm sure at some stage the Order's going to rock up, "You're 130 years old? WITCH!!""

Kuzco claims, "Oh no"

Anonymous states, "I would really really really"

Anonymous says, "REALLY"

Anonymous claims, "Appreciate it"

Kinaed states, "Until then, I highly recommend beauty products :)"

Anonymous claims, "If we didnt let tha thappen"

Sparkles states, "That could potentially be a topic if no one has any others. I think ... it could be a topic of how to have 'this is new and shiny' overall so that the idea isn't that older characters basically 'had all the fun' as that kind of feels like a recurring thing. And I admit, can be a bit rough on morale."

Anonymous claims, "Order burning you for being too old I mean"

Kuzco states, "Marry a vavardi. Best beauty product."

Anonymous claims, "Pfft, you'd know would you"

Anonymous states, "Wouldnt*"

Kuzco claims, "I mean Renwrap was like age 96 and went unburnt"

Kinaed says to Anonymous, "In real life terms, it'd be hard to get to an age that the order would be like 'whaaat' from regular play."

Kinaed claims, "One OOC year is 4 IC years, so a 90 year old character, you'd have to be playing about 20 OOC years before the danger bell would be weird and abnormal"

Deedee questions, "Is there a max age you can purchase into?"

Kinaed claims, "So for the record - there's no coded character death atm."

Wimpled questions, "Sparkles are you talking about older players having too much power now being rough on morale? Or that they've had all their fun and there's nothing to do when they are old? "

Kinaed states, "I think there actually is, but I don't remember what it is. Might be 60"

Anonymous checks his watch and finds that he is only 32 IRL, saying, "That is a potential possibility."

Temi claims, "I do think people don't tend to stay as engaged on one character for a long long time. Once it feels like there's not really more to do, starting a new character is a healthy thing to do"

Deedee states, "60 seems a bit young for it"

Sparkles says, "Mostly that the first thing is recurring comment on forum discussions, Wimpled."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Deedee claims, "But probably don't want to allow 600 either"

Anonymous queries, "No methusalahs?"

Kinaed grins at Anonymous.

Kuzco claims, "I admittedly struggle with having stuff to do with no crime on sight"

Kuzco says, "It's why I did the Silver Horde"

Kinaed questions, "That went over pretty well. How was it in terms of running it?"

Kuzco says, "It was amazing and I could gush all day about it and the players"

Anonymous claims, "By the way kuzco, I know of one new character who has incorporated the Silver Horde into his backstory"

Temi claims, "I think that's a different issue, of characters that depend on the action of other characters to have fun. And that's a good solution to it"

Anonymous states, "So you made that much of an impact"

Kinaed says, "The storytelling system is intended to let players step out of the role of 'individual roleplayer' and into the role of 'guided group storyteller' to help people find new and cool stories to explore."

Kinaed muses, "Is there anything anyone else wants to discuss? We have 20 odd minutes :)"

Vincent claims, "I dunno. On the one hand, I'm still really enjoying my character, feel like I have a lot to do / lot to offer TI. On the other hand, I've been struggling."

Deedee wonders, "Struggling with?"

Vincent states, "RL's been kicking me for a while now, which I won't get into. But I guess I have been -trying- to do things, and then just not feeling that I'm getting anywhere. And it's hard not to feel like I shouldn't just do something drastic just to see what will happen IC."

Kinaed states, "Some of my best stories are doing drastic things IC just to see what would happen. It's not a bad tactic."

Sparkles says, "Sometimes it can feel hard when you feel you have great ideas but they don't get a lot of traction."

Vincent claims, "But I have these long term goals that would be counter to just doing that. It's just been feeling frustrating because I'm never around when others are. "

Kuzco says, "Can I give you drastic help Vinnie"

Vincent grins. Hah.

Kinaed states, "The environment of RP is very much like doing improve with people, though - the ability to 'yes and' is hugely important because people need to be able to cycle material - so it's best if people actually react to things in their environment, and I've noticed a bit of a tendency for people when they're tired to just not 'latch on' to events around them."

Kinaed states, "... and I get guilty of that, especially when I'm having a hard time OOC."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Temi claims, "Yeah, definitely happens, and doesn't mean anything about the event"

Kinaed says, "... which has been for me, the last five or so weeks because of... life."

Kuzco comforts Kinaed.

Vincent says, "Yeah, I don't think it's.. like TI's fault entirely. And I HAVE been having a good time still, and I have been doing things. It's just.. I'm feeling frustrated and demotivated this week."

Kinaed comforts Vincent.

Kinaed muses, "Can I ask what might have gone differently that could have given you a different result, do you think?"

Temi says, "I think we've all had those weeks"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed says, "Then if we can support those things, we'll try."

Vincent says, "I need time to honestly think if anything could be done. I think I'm just feeling burnt out, and that's probably not really TI's fault. "

Anonymous claims, "Well"

Vincent claims, "That's definitely not TI's fault I should say"

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "I have been too, yeah - and it's not TI's fault :)"

Anonymous claims, "I don't really know any of the details, and I probably shouldn't, but I will say that lots of time people tend to 'rid ethe coast'"

Vincent asks, "Rid ethe coast? "

Anonymous trails off, "Ride the coast as in..."

Anonymous says, "Attend events and play off other people's plotlines, but avoid making waves themselves"

Anonymous claims, "Im guilty of doing that a lot"

Vincent wonders, "Ride the coats, you mean. Ride the coattails?"

Wimpled eats a battered-looking gingerbread patient, leaning on a crutch.

Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

Kinaed claims, "I think that's true for some."

Vincent says, "Yeah, I can see that. I guess if I'm being constructive -- I've had a lot of great scenes recently that have actually given me a lot to bounce off of. I've actualyl felt that RPs been improving lately. "

Kinaed says, "Oh, that's good to hear."

Vincent claims, "I've got an idea for an event, but I got demotivated because by the time I'll get the stuff ready for it, the season will have changed."

Vincent states, "I was REALLY excited to run it, but now it's going to have to wait 12 weeks."

Kinaed comforts Vincent.

Vincent says, "And I think that's what I'm reacting to now, I ain't great with time management IRL and it's a bit much for me to have to plan my roleplaying game 12 weeks in advance"

Kinaed muses, "Maybe we can take the convo offline, you and I?"

Kinaed queries, "See if there's anything staff can support that'll help?"

Vincent claims, "Sure"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed states, "Okay, I'll touch base with you later today or potentially tomorrow."

Kinaed claims, "In the meantime, we're coming to the top of the hour."

Kinaed asks, "Is there anything anyone wants to discuss? Anything on anyone's mind?"

Sparkles states, "Oh! I had something I remembered."

Kinaed grins at Sparkles.

Sparkles says, "There had been a discussion about some updates to Brewing but there's been a lot of staff change over since that original discussion."

Kinaed says, "Ahh yes! Temi's taking over brewing."

Kinaed questions, "May we reiterate what it is people are hoping for?"

Deedee says, "I think vegetable juice was one suggestion"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Temi claims, "I don't think I'm overtaking any big revamps to start, though"

Kinaed says, "Okay, thanks for re-raising. If there's something specific anyone wants out of brewing, please alert Temi priviately."

Sparkles states, "Overall? I'd love to see a few of the currently NPC only things get crafts. And maybe have some of the upper end things make use of some of the ingredients that don't see a lot of use otherwise."

Sparkles nods.

Kinaed queries, "Which NPC only things?"

Temi claims, "But there's certainly more little things we can add here and there"

Kinaed says, "I'm guessing someone has lost their train of thought :)"

Sparkles says, "Ah, drinks that NPCs currently sell that can't be crafted. I've got some thoughts I can send over."

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Anyway, it's over the top of the hour - I'll look forward to reconvening next week :)"

Sparkles nods.

Sparkles waves.

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "Please do :)"

Kinaed waves.

Kinaed pontificates, "Thanks for attending everyone!"

Kuzco states, "Please remember to recommend each other, post RUMOSR PLEASE"


Kinaed states, "Take care, see you net week :)"

Temi claims, "The forums is a great place to concentrate those sorts of ideas"

Temi nods.

Kinaed states, "*next"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed declares, "Okay, time to send everyone back!"

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