It has forever been a struggle to balance the needs of players who are the target of arrest with the need of the arresting players. To this end, a staff member suggested we should put up some general arresting guidelines.
These are actually the evidence rules I'm currently expecting people to be following right now, and my personal standard of what I think is decent law enforcement behavior, just... I never wrote it down. Specifically, arrests are reserved for people who have committed crimes, not a method of investigating if someone has done something wrong. The pbase doesn't have a large enough representative population to accept "gut feeling" or "he seems like the naughty type" as reasonable grounds for arrest - though these may be appropriate reasons to start an investigation.
Too often I see arrest used as a weapon against fellow players to bolster a weak investigation. Jail time is too serious a game penalty for targeted players to allow this behavior to be standard, and a key place we lose players (especially new ones) is in jail.
Here are the ones we PROPOSE for the pbase. So, before we install them, please provide feedback:
================================================================================
Arrest guidelines apply to any party who is making a legally binding
arrest, be it by canonical or secular law.
Arrests require a written warrant to be valid. Warrants are written
free form in a letter, affixing their seal and submitting it to arresting
parties (ie, a Knight or Reeve). Reeves additionally have a 'warrant'
command that enforces a warrant by code, but this should not be used
without a legitimate, written free form warrant (this command makes
the city guard look out for criminals).
For a warrant to be valid, it must include, at minimum:
- Whose authority the warrant is by (ie, if Cellan orders an arrest,
Cellan must sign the warrant). A seal validates the warrant
issuer's identity.
- The name of the warranted person or their aliases.
- The crime or crimes the warranted individual committed.
- May not have been rescinded by someone of higher legal standing.
(IE, the Monarch can overturn a Justiciar's warrant as the
Patriarch can overturn a Grand Inquisitor's).
- Finally, the warrant must be backed up with desc notes
explaining, in detail, the evidence that a crime was commited
by the warranted player.
INVESTIGATIVE PRIVILEGE
Law enforcers may, with suspicion, detain a character up to one IC day
(6 OOC hours) without a warrant without it being legally considered
kidnapping. This detainment is used for questioning and interrogation
only, and may not legally include strip searches or locker searches.
THE LAW ON ARRESTS
- Restraining a person without a warrant is assault.
- Keeping someone prisoner without a warrant is kidnapping.
- Confiscating objects from a person without a warrant is theft.
- Searching a person's locker or home without a warrant is
trespassing (titled nobles have limited rights to trespass without
legal repercussion).
- Framing a person to produce a warrant is illegal.
Thus, law enforcers who do not have warrants when attempting an arrest
are breaking the law. The only exception is when a law enforcer is either
protecting themselves (ie, if they are physically attacked and arrest out
of self defense) or others from clear and present danger (ie, a mage
casts a spell at them).
ILLEGITIMATE ARRESTS
Law enforcers who commit crimes, especially if it becomes publicly
known, are traditionally removed from law enforcing authority, though
corrupt regimes have, at times, looked the other way.
Warranting characters for crimes that a law enforcer does not have IC
evidence or knowledge of is framing, which is policy acceptable in lieu
of a legal arrest, provided the player who is framing another
Desc Notes the issue specifically as framing and follows PK policy, as if
the frame is an attempt to PK. An illegitimate arrest remains ICly
illegal, however.
POLICY
- Arrests and warrants should be issued for a crime a player believes
another player has committed. Desc notes should explain why the player
believes a crime has occurred. Desc notes are MANDATORY, and must
explicitly explain the evidence and reasoning for the arrest.
- Arrests should not be used to investigate and gather evidence. Warrants
are the result of investigative work and uncovering evidence, not a tool
to produce evidence. Thus, warrants should be attached to a specific
crime.
- If a law enforcer chooses to kidnap a player to interrogate them
without a warrant, the staff will look the other way for 6 OOC
hours, but after that time, the staff will intervene to release
the player unless a valid warrant is produced.
- In instances where a law enforcer frames another character,
the staff will accept a framing Desc Note in lieu of evidence.
However, framing someone requires the law enforcer to
follow PK policy with regards to the frame.
================================================================================
PROPOSED Help Policy Arrest Guidelines
I have no issues with this policy. I would like similar policy notes on other warrant types. For example, seizure warrants for the seizure of property from a player and search warrants which provide The Order & The Reeves with the ability to enter homes, businesses, etc when justified for an investigation. There has been some IC conflict over whether The Order must utilize a Reeve to make entry into a residence when a search warrant has been issued by The Order. The policy surrounding these issues has been prone to changing with each justiciar / proconsul or grand inquisitor / cardinal.
To me, making entry into a residence or business that is owned / operated by a player that is under investigation by The Order should be the job of The Order perhaps with a member of The Knights Lithmorran present to verify that a warrant has been issued. The Reeves and The Order have their own set of laws to enforce and I don't see a reason to constantly request the assistance of the other organization.
Just my $0.02
To me, making entry into a residence or business that is owned / operated by a player that is under investigation by The Order should be the job of The Order perhaps with a member of The Knights Lithmorran present to verify that a warrant has been issued. The Reeves and The Order have their own set of laws to enforce and I don't see a reason to constantly request the assistance of the other organization.
Just my $0.02
I don't mind if someone wants to write up a warrant for the seizure of something specific, etc. That's a bit different to ARRESTS, but I think I'd see those as far more reasonable acts to do when there is suspicion to attempt to gather evidence. The staff would not police that though.
I do think, however, that if a player has the right to write a warrant, they have the authority to investigate in general.
From a policy perspective, this is just saying that, regarding ARRESTS and restricting another player's RP movement by placing them in jail:
"If a player goes outside of the bounds of arrest policy during an arrest, then the staff have the right to intervene. Otherwise, staff keep their muckity-muck fingers to themselves. Intervention, means some nasty stuff like deducting XP, deleting characters, nulling RP, noalting or multiplaying, and other 'punishments to fit the severity of what we think just happened".
I do think, however, that if a player has the right to write a warrant, they have the authority to investigate in general.
From a policy perspective, this is just saying that, regarding ARRESTS and restricting another player's RP movement by placing them in jail:
"If a player goes outside of the bounds of arrest policy during an arrest, then the staff have the right to intervene. Otherwise, staff keep their muckity-muck fingers to themselves. Intervention, means some nasty stuff like deducting XP, deleting characters, nulling RP, noalting or multiplaying, and other 'punishments to fit the severity of what we think just happened".
I would hope that law enforcement types who come across someone in the midst of committing a crime would still have the authority to arrest them. I think it's a bit silly to see someone defecating in the middle of the Bluebird and not be able to arrest them until a warrant is filled out. Or casting spells in Church Square for that matter.
I assume lawful players would only be restricted in their lawful duties. Like if Geras decided to go kidnap the Grand Magnate and lock him in his cellar for fun that'd be okay policy wise, though highly illegal, right?
I assume lawful players would only be restricted in their lawful duties. Like if Geras decided to go kidnap the Grand Magnate and lock him in his cellar for fun that'd be okay policy wise, though highly illegal, right?
I'd love if Reeves needed warrant to put someone in jail, which always feels like an ooc punishment for ic fun, but could throw anyone they wanted (well, not nobles) into the stocks for any reason at all.
So if Reeves don't want the hassle of a warrant, they use stocks.
Stocks are underused. I love stocks. Anything to increase stocks and reduce cells.
(Other'n that, I think the whole conception of warrants implies anachronistic rights, but this time, at least, I can see that player satisfaction might trump rigidity ...)
So if Reeves don't want the hassle of a warrant, they use stocks.
Stocks are underused. I love stocks. Anything to increase stocks and reduce cells.
(Other'n that, I think the whole conception of warrants implies anachronistic rights, but this time, at least, I can see that player satisfaction might trump rigidity ...)
There's already allowances in there for catching someone in the act, especially if it's dangerous behavior, and I don't think anyone would argue that. Still, I'll alter the wording a bit to indicate seeing a crime in progress precludes a warrant also.
Any other feedback?
Stocks exist in game, I think - restrain <name> stocks, then restrain leave *sage nod* Of course, I'm not sure if there are any manacles strung as stocks...? Shouldn't be hard to add some.
Any other feedback?
Stocks exist in game, I think - restrain <name> stocks, then restrain leave *sage nod* Of course, I'm not sure if there are any manacles strung as stocks...? Shouldn't be hard to add some.
Here's another attempt with the feedback from those players who have spoken thus far. Please, keep the feedback coming!
================================================================================
Arrest guidelines apply to any party who is making an arrest, be it
by canonical or secular law.
THE LAW ON ARRESTS
Arrests require a written warrant to be valid. Warrants are written
free form in a letter, affixing their seal and submitting it to
arresting parties (ie, a Knight or Reeve). Reeves additionally have
a 'warrant' command that enforces a warrant by code, but this
should not be used without a legitimate, written free form warrant
(this command alerts the NPC city guard to track a criminal).
- Restraining a person without a warrant is assault.
- Keeping someone prisoner without a warrant is kidnapping.
- Confiscating objects from a person without a warrant is theft.
- Searching a person 's locker or home without a warrant is
trespassing (titled nobles have limited rights to trespass
without legal repercussion).
- Framing a person to produce a warrant is illegal.
Thus, law enforcers who do not have warrants when attempting an arrest
are breaking the law.
EXCLUSIONS
Arrests do not require warrants in the following situations:
- A criminal is caught in the immediate act of a crime.
- The law enforcer is acting in self defense, or the defense
of another citizen in which they are obligated to defend.
WARRANTS
The following have the right to write warrants:
Canonical
The Patriarch
A Cardinal
An Archbishop
A Bishop
A High Inquistior
An Inquisitor
Secular
The Monarch
The Keeper of the Seal
A Titled Noble (within their domain only)
The Justiciar
The Proconsul
A Magistrate
A Reeve (All Types)
All warrants must, at minimum:
- state whose authority the warrant is by (ie, if Cellan orders
an arrest, Cellan must sign the warrant). A seal validates the
warrant issuer's identity.
- identify the person who is warranted by name, description or
alias.
- state the crime or crimes the warranted individual committed.
- Must not have been rescinded by someone of higher authority.
(IE, a Justiciar's can overturn a Magistrate's warrant as the
Patriarch can overturn a Grand Inquisitor's).
- Finally, the warrant must be backed up with Desc Notes
explaining, in detail, the evidence that a crime was commited
by the suspect, or that the law enforcer intends to frame the
player.
Suspects with an arrest warrant against them may be held prisoner,
have their property (locker, person and home) searched & seized, be
further interrogated, and/or be punished for crimes.
INVESTIGATIVE PRIVILEGE
Law enforcers may, with suspicion, detain a suspect up to one IC day
(6 OOC hours) without a warrant without it being legally considered
kidnapping. This detainment is used for questioning and interrogation
only, and may not legally include strip searches. During this period,
suspects have the right to see & interact with visitors.
Additionally, during this period, law enforcers may choose to
investigate a suspect's property, including locker or home, without
a warrant in place. They may not strip search a suspect until an
arrest warrant has been granted. {[FREE RPA]
At the end of this time, law enforcers must decide that they have
enough evidence to write a proper arrest warrant, or they must release
the suspect until they've gathered more evidence.
ILLEGITIMATE ARRESTS
Law enforcers who commit crimes, especially if it becomes publicly
known, are traditionally removed from law enforcing authority, though
corrupt regimes have, at times, looked the other way.
Warranting characters for crimes that a law enforcer does not have IC
evidence or knowledge of is framing, which is policy acceptable in lieu
of a legal arrest, provided the player who is framing another
Desc Notes the issue specifically as framing and follows PK policy, as if
the frame is an attempt to PK. An illegitimate arrest remains ICly
illegal, however.
POLICY
- Arrests and warrants should be issued for a crime a player believes
another player has committed. Desc notes should explain why the player
believes a crime has occurred. Desc notes are MANDATORY, and must
explicitly explain the evidence and reasoning for the arrest.
- Arrests should not be used to investigate and gather evidence. Warrants
are the result of investigative work and uncovering evidence, not a tool
to produce evidence. Thus, warrants should be attached to a specific
crime.
- If a law enforcer chooses to kidnap a player to interrogate them
without a warrant, the staff will look the other way for 6 OOC
hours, but after that time, the staff will intervene to release
the player unless a valid warrant is produced.
- In instances where a law enforcer frames another character,
the staff will accept a framing Desc Note in lieu of evidence.
However, framing someone requires the law enforcer to
follow PK policy with regards to the frame.
================================================================================
================================================================================
Arrest guidelines apply to any party who is making an arrest, be it
by canonical or secular law.
THE LAW ON ARRESTS
Arrests require a written warrant to be valid. Warrants are written
free form in a letter, affixing their seal and submitting it to
arresting parties (ie, a Knight or Reeve). Reeves additionally have
a 'warrant' command that enforces a warrant by code, but this
should not be used without a legitimate, written free form warrant
(this command alerts the NPC city guard to track a criminal).
- Restraining a person without a warrant is assault.
- Keeping someone prisoner without a warrant is kidnapping.
- Confiscating objects from a person without a warrant is theft.
- Searching a person 's locker or home without a warrant is
trespassing (titled nobles have limited rights to trespass
without legal repercussion).
- Framing a person to produce a warrant is illegal.
Thus, law enforcers who do not have warrants when attempting an arrest
are breaking the law.
EXCLUSIONS
Arrests do not require warrants in the following situations:
- A criminal is caught in the immediate act of a crime.
- The law enforcer is acting in self defense, or the defense
of another citizen in which they are obligated to defend.
WARRANTS
The following have the right to write warrants:
Canonical
The Patriarch
A Cardinal
An Archbishop
A Bishop
A High Inquistior
An Inquisitor
Secular
The Monarch
The Keeper of the Seal
A Titled Noble (within their domain only)
The Justiciar
The Proconsul
A Magistrate
A Reeve (All Types)
All warrants must, at minimum:
- state whose authority the warrant is by (ie, if Cellan orders
an arrest, Cellan must sign the warrant). A seal validates the
warrant issuer's identity.
- identify the person who is warranted by name, description or
alias.
- state the crime or crimes the warranted individual committed.
- Must not have been rescinded by someone of higher authority.
(IE, a Justiciar's can overturn a Magistrate's warrant as the
Patriarch can overturn a Grand Inquisitor's).
- Finally, the warrant must be backed up with Desc Notes
explaining, in detail, the evidence that a crime was commited
by the suspect, or that the law enforcer intends to frame the
player.
Suspects with an arrest warrant against them may be held prisoner,
have their property (locker, person and home) searched & seized, be
further interrogated, and/or be punished for crimes.
INVESTIGATIVE PRIVILEGE
Law enforcers may, with suspicion, detain a suspect up to one IC day
(6 OOC hours) without a warrant without it being legally considered
kidnapping. This detainment is used for questioning and interrogation
only, and may not legally include strip searches. During this period,
suspects have the right to see & interact with visitors.
Additionally, during this period, law enforcers may choose to
investigate a suspect's property, including locker or home, without
a warrant in place. They may not strip search a suspect until an
arrest warrant has been granted. {[FREE RPA]
At the end of this time, law enforcers must decide that they have
enough evidence to write a proper arrest warrant, or they must release
the suspect until they've gathered more evidence.
ILLEGITIMATE ARRESTS
Law enforcers who commit crimes, especially if it becomes publicly
known, are traditionally removed from law enforcing authority, though
corrupt regimes have, at times, looked the other way.
Warranting characters for crimes that a law enforcer does not have IC
evidence or knowledge of is framing, which is policy acceptable in lieu
of a legal arrest, provided the player who is framing another
Desc Notes the issue specifically as framing and follows PK policy, as if
the frame is an attempt to PK. An illegitimate arrest remains ICly
illegal, however.
POLICY
- Arrests and warrants should be issued for a crime a player believes
another player has committed. Desc notes should explain why the player
believes a crime has occurred. Desc notes are MANDATORY, and must
explicitly explain the evidence and reasoning for the arrest.
- Arrests should not be used to investigate and gather evidence. Warrants
are the result of investigative work and uncovering evidence, not a tool
to produce evidence. Thus, warrants should be attached to a specific
crime.
- If a law enforcer chooses to kidnap a player to interrogate them
without a warrant, the staff will look the other way for 6 OOC
hours, but after that time, the staff will intervene to release
the player unless a valid warrant is produced.
- In instances where a law enforcer frames another character,
the staff will accept a framing Desc Note in lieu of evidence.
However, framing someone requires the law enforcer to
follow PK policy with regards to the frame.
================================================================================
Although the list of people who can issue warrants for The Order seem okay-ish I'd prefer seeing more use for the Inquisitorial Ring. My list of people that could issue warrants would be:
Canonical-
The Patriarch
The Grand Inquisitor
Other members of The Holy Order bestowed with the inquisitorial ring. (These members might be Priests, High Priests, Bishops, Archbishops or those that choose not to fulfill standard ceremonial duties of clergy and would be the ones actually titled Inquisitor or High Inquisitor).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that not all archbishops & bishops wear the ring. The inquisitor flag required for investigating, pyring, etc is a subrank, not a rank.
Brent
Canonical-
The Patriarch
The Grand Inquisitor
Other members of The Holy Order bestowed with the inquisitorial ring. (These members might be Priests, High Priests, Bishops, Archbishops or those that choose not to fulfill standard ceremonial duties of clergy and would be the ones actually titled Inquisitor or High Inquisitor).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that not all archbishops & bishops wear the ring. The inquisitor flag required for investigating, pyring, etc is a subrank, not a rank.
Brent
Kind of a side topic in this thread but...
I don't think that restrain really fills role that coded stocks could. At least not totally. If you leave someone there restrained anyone can grab their restraints and drag them off. Which you know... is bad...
Also, the take command applies to restrained people without restrictions. Presumably you'd only be stuck in the stocks with your clothes ICly, even if you have your EQ on you for logistical reasons. It'd suck to go into the stocks with all your worldly possessions on you and get cleaned out by hooligans. So maybe when you're in the stocks, the take command would only apply to your clothing? If that.
I'd also think stocks would be just about impossible to escape without help. And it would be very nice if the Reeves could set it to an automated timer where a VNPC guard would release the prisoner is up instead of relying on a Reeve being online.
I don't think that restrain really fills role that coded stocks could. At least not totally. If you leave someone there restrained anyone can grab their restraints and drag them off. Which you know... is bad...
Also, the take command applies to restrained people without restrictions. Presumably you'd only be stuck in the stocks with your clothes ICly, even if you have your EQ on you for logistical reasons. It'd suck to go into the stocks with all your worldly possessions on you and get cleaned out by hooligans. So maybe when you're in the stocks, the take command would only apply to your clothing? If that.
I'd also think stocks would be just about impossible to escape without help. And it would be very nice if the Reeves could set it to an automated timer where a VNPC guard would release the prisoner is up instead of relying on a Reeve being online.
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