The End of the Regency

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Pixie
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:55 pm
Location: Sol System

Wed May 11, 2016 6:38 am

The_Last_Good_Dragon wrote:
Pixie wrote:Pedantic counterpoint: If you thought it was miserable being outcast by Court, imagine how miserable it'll be being outcast by a guild which contains every GL and noble in the game. :(
As I read it, one can't be cut out from the Council. If eligible as a GL or Noble, you're in. Nobody can kick you out. Is that right, staffies?
Outcast -- not booted codedly from a guild. Like, with all the "it's impossible to go against the 'good guys'" stuff we've had crop up, binding all the lawful big-names into one organization might kind've exacerbate it.

It seems this no longer concerns me beyond losing Court, as I won't be part of the new Council by the guild's design. I'll fall back on "sad to see Court go" and leave it at that.

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Kinaed
Posts: 1984
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Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Wed May 11, 2016 7:19 am

Staff are meeting with Court after the OOC Chat to discuss what will happen with the traditional council further. I was unaware that there were so many non-titled nobles in the guild (as I tend not to pay too much attention to guild membership, etc), so I'm personally a bit concerned about that impact.

This said, the staff do have strong reasons to want to shift away from the current, traditional court, so I'm not ready to commit to not restructuring the guild into the City Council.

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Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Wed May 11, 2016 7:25 am

The "voting" specification for review and feedback:

Code: Select all

Syntax: city support <metric> <reason> 
        city subvert <metric> <reason>

When a player who eligible to vote in the City Council types 'city 
support|subvert <metric> <reason>', they are ICly saying that at the end 
of the voting cycle, their "vote" is to improve or damage a specific 
metric. When tallying, their reason will be auto-cnoted.

At the end of the city metric period (city metric period may change, but
should start as one week), the game will tally the metric votes.  Support
votes are worth 1 point, and subvert votes are worth -1 point.

The first step once the points are tallied is to place them in order:

City Metric Focus:
  1. Lawfulness      : ( 61%) Average      4 points
  2. Morale          : ( 84%) Excellent    3 points
  3. Religion        : ( 55%) Ordinary     3 points
  4. Economics       : ( 62%) Average      1 points
  5. Defense         : ( 46%) Substandard  1 points
  6. Health          : ( 45%) Substandard  1 points
  7. Infrastructure  : ( 65%) Average      0 points
  8. Class Relations : ( 34%) Challenged   0 points
  9. Race Relations  : ( 33%) Challenged  -1 points

Tied City Metrics will randomly order the tied items.

Once the list is in order, randomly check if the top item will swap with the
second item (this allows minorities to sometimes get a word in edgewise with
luck).  To do this check, divide the number of points in the top list item by
the total number of votes (invert negatives).  This will say the % of people
who voted for the top item.  Roll 1d100, and if it is above the % of people
who voted, swap item #1 and item #2.

Once the list is in order, the top city metric gets +20 points.  If this
takes the value above 100, the number will be set to 100, and the spillover
assigned to the next item in the list.

The second item in the list will get +10 points + spillover.  If this takes
the value above 100, set the metric to 100 and assign the spillover to the
next item in the list.

The third item in the list will get +5 points, + spillover.  If this takes
the value above 100, set the metric to 100, and assign the spillover all of
the way down.

We will resolve the bonuses from voting first.

Next, we will resolve all of the negatives from the bottom ranking Metric to
the top.  So, the 9th item in the list gets -20 points, and if this takes the
value below 0, set it to 0 and 'spillover' the negative flow to the item
above it in the list.  

The second item from the bottom (rank 8) will get -10 - spillover, the third
item -5 - spillover and so on until we're done passing the changes up the
list.  

NOTES:

- Auto cnotes should happen when the vote is tallied.
- Votes can be changed numerous times during the period, it only
  matters what the vote is set on when the tally happens.
- Covert GLs can vote too, they're just not thematically or ICly
  on the City Council.
- Players in jail are not eligible to vote.

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Gerolf
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:27 pm

Wed May 11, 2016 9:43 am

Reading all of this, for some reason this line made me laugh far more than it should have:
Kinaed wrote:- The system is designed to be meeting-less - you can vote from your phome, you can vote from the local tavern, you can vote from jail. You probably ought not to be able to vote from jail. I'll make a note of that.
Aaaany way:

I do think that if we are removing court from having a kingdom wide focus to one with a city focus, we need to do some other alterations.

The way I understand it, Justiciar, Proconsul, Earl Marshal, Grand Magnate, Poet Laudate, Grand Master, and Grand Inquisitor are all kingdom or duchy focused. I would propose that we scale back all the GLs into something like (Just making this up on the fly):

Order:
Bishop of Lithmore
Castellan

Reeves:
Chief Magistrate
Captain of the Guard

Troubs:
Master of Bards
Senior Bard

Merchants:
Trade Master
Guild Steward

I know it is silly that out of all of this I am concerned about names and profiles, but the Lord Justicar and Lord Earl Marshall sit on the Royal Council. Seems to me if we want to refocus the game on the -city- we should make everyone city focused.

I am still unclear what will happen to the nobles, if they are being moved to a guild called: City Council then I would recommend that the GLs be something like:

Lord Mayor of Lithmore
Sheriff of Lithmore

Just my thoughts, do with them what you will.

Ava
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Wed May 11, 2016 3:07 pm

Deleted!

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Voxumo
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Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
Contact:

Wed May 11, 2016 5:15 pm

Alright,

Having read through all the comments thus far, minus Last_Dragon's huge one, I feel confident in my ability raise concerns/views of this.

So Firstly, Similar to what leech said, what can the city metric system bring to the playing field that isn't already something that has been done? On top of that a week feels like too quick of a time. The way I'm understanding it, that at the end of the week something will happen, negatively and positively based on the outcome of the week... So does that mean folks only have a week to solve that issue before another is piled onto them with the following week's voting? Something bad happening every week is gonna get old quickly. Now I may be reading it wrong so do correct me if I am infact wrong.

Secondly: Is this City Council an actual guild? I can't imagine it will be if GL's are an automatic part of it.

Thirdly: What is the theme reason for this sudden change? Much like when the order and Knights Merged, yet again, one of my big questions for staff was what is the IC Reason for this? I don't like big changes like this if they can't be supported by theme. On top of that, what is going to happen to the court icly? Will it be removed from the annals of history? Will it still exist in some manner in the game, but just out of player reach?

Fourthly: I would be lying if I said I was pleased with the direction theme is going, where it's focused primarily only on the grid... I love the grid, but in the end it's still only one city, and only so much can happen in one city before it becomes ridiculous. On top of that, rp surrounding locations outside of lithmore, I feel, gave gentry some kind of actual... purpose. Like they could be important even if they weren't like some powerful merchant in the city, or weren't a GL. They had some kind of influence. With the shift of the theme focus, I feel like only the powerful people are going to be those that are long established in the city, since that is where the theme is going to be focused, in the city. I mean yes this view may be somewhat influenced by my already negative perception of certain aspects of the game, but it's still a real worry.
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The_Last_Good_Dragon
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:08 am

Wed May 11, 2016 5:34 pm

Voxumo wrote:Alright,

Having read through all the comments thus far, minus Last_Dragon's huge one, I feel confident in my ability raise concerns/views of this.

So Firstly, Similar to what leech said, what can the city metric system bring to the playing field that isn't already something that has been done? On top of that a week feels like too quick of a time. The way I'm understanding it, that at the end of the week something will happen, negatively and positively based on the outcome of the week... So does that mean folks only have a week to solve that issue before another is piled onto them with the following week's voting? Something bad happening every week is gonna get old quickly. Now I may be reading it wrong so do correct me if I am infact wrong.
The way I read it, something will occur every IRL month, not every IRL week. Which is an IC Season -- four months. Something generally small, like a cave-in in the sewers or a bit of illness in part of the city, can probably be expected to happen in any city across a season.
Voxumo wrote:Thirdly: What is the theme reason for this sudden change? Much like when the order and Knights Merged, yet again, one of my big questions for staff was what is the IC Reason for this? I don't like big changes like this if they can't be supported by theme. On top of that, what is going to happen to the court icly? Will it be removed from the annals of history? Will it still exist in some manner in the game, but just out of player reach?
The Monarch is coming of age, bringing a required thematic shift away from a Regency. This is something players have seen coming, and Staff is now, two-months out, letting us know how they'd like things to go — ie, with allowing autonomy of Guild Leaders and Nobles rather than the more pyramid-like structure. I see it as Caitrin, at least (or especially!) initially being very hands-off and trusting those with power and influence to continue using it. Also from what I understand from the replies, the Court will remain an IC function but not be a Guild, though Kinaed has expressed this isn't set in stone given several people have said they wouldn't like that. The same way that the University is still an IC function but not a Guild.
~~ Team Farra'n'Stuff. ~~

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Voxumo
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Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
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Wed May 11, 2016 5:44 pm

The_Last_Good_Dragon wrote:
Voxumo wrote:Thirdly: What is the theme reason for this sudden change? Much like when the order and Knights Merged, yet again, one of my big questions for staff was what is the IC Reason for this? I don't like big changes like this if they can't be supported by theme. On top of that, what is going to happen to the court icly? Will it be removed from the annals of history? Will it still exist in some manner in the game, but just out of player reach?
The Monarch is coming of age, bringing a required thematic shift away from a Regency. This is something players have seen coming, and Staff is now, two-months out, letting us know how they'd like things to go — ie, with allowing autonomy of Guild Leaders and Nobles rather than the more pyramid-like structure. I see it as Caitrin, at least (or especially!) initially being very hands-off and trusting those with power and influence to continue using it. Also from what I understand from the replies, the Court will remain an IC function but not be a Guild, though Kinaed has expressed this isn't set in stone given several people have said they wouldn't like that. The same way that the University is still an IC function but not a Guild.
I can understand the removal of the Regency, but I'd like to remind that the court guild did exist before the role of regent, so it's not like the court guild is tied to the role of regent. I mean before this announcement I had imagined that once Caitrin came to age, that staff would do something like what is done with the Order and Cardinal, where the true head figure of the guild is a npc, but there are two distinct GLs still in control of it.
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The_Last_Good_Dragon
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:08 am

Wed May 11, 2016 6:03 pm

Voxumo wrote:I can understand the removal of the Regency, but I'd like to remind that the court guild did exist before the role of regent, so it's not like the court guild is tied to the role of regent. I mean before this announcement I had imagined that once Caitrin came to age, that staff would do something like what is done with the Order and Cardinal, where the true head figure of the guild is a npc, but there are two distinct GLs still in control of it.
FWIW, I hope the Court continues in some capacity, but I do really like the general idea of the City Council. Putting power in the hands of those that have power is something I've been wanting for a long time, and I think the Council is a way to expand on the presumed function of Court so long as people who want to play that type of character still have a means of doing it in the 'City Management' aspect. Comparing the Court to the Order isn't entirely comparable as the Order has a very specific function in-game that players are able to accomplish generally on their own. The Court's role has always been to organize and direct resources and responses while also being a place for nobles to hang out and rub elbows with.

The Council shift still does the second part of that, I think. Nobles can still meet up, and having codified policy allows more freedom in allowing people to make plans and influence the city. As a personal example, it was very difficult to have Farra do anything against-the-grain in the Court, which was ultimately dominated by a few people who always got their way. Which is fine and dandy, but it made having an undercurrent kind of lame and unappealing when it was literally impossible to have a minor impact on anything. When the Court GLs were the literal Rule of Law — disobeying Tomas or Margaux is literally treason — it suppressed people trying to do something different; if they said 'Put your resources into Defense' you had few options of doing something else. With a change-up, there's more room for wiggle, more room for Guild Leaders to do what they want, for nobles to do what they want, and to allow politicians room to really work against someone else. As I understand it, the "Seneschal" role will have very little actual power to do anything and is more a head-figure who should be trying to keep people working together rather than having the authority to -order- people to work together. I like that. I like the idea of Farra being able to be like 'You know what? I think defenses are fine, I'm going to invest my resources into improving relations.' I do worry about the predictability of the execution, after reading Kinaed's specifications, and would rather see a system that's a bit more chaotic and even still benefits more the odd-ball who goes off on their own, but that's mostly just me. I think having clear-cut and expected "9th place loses 20 points. 3rd place gain 5 points." will make things grow stale and predictive and would love it if more randomness was brought into the equation.

BUT, I don't think the Council addresses at all the other function Court had, of organize and direct. While it's all well-and-good to focus theme in on the city, just because there's a focus there shouldn't mean there's nothing elsewhere. The role of High Steward, as Margaux has played it, has in my opinion added a lot to the game, and I think removing the role, or making it be -a lot- more difficult to work with, is a bad thing. The same for things like Court Chamberlain as Ofelia has done it, along with other non-titled nobility in the Court who have always expressed an interest in working either on the forefront of city management or behind the scenes in soothing egos. I think there's plenty of room for a smaller, less powerful Court whose function is to try to work with the Seneschal to request outside aide when absolutely necessary, manage longer-term city projects, and keep city functions like balls, feasts, and other ST-events rolling and coordinating with Guilds to that effect.

Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic about the suggestions. I'm VERY concerned with the timeframe and wish we would start at a longer timeframe and scale it down if people want it, and I continue to really hope that those of us who like playing people who don't play as well with others have the ability to make a meaningful impact (and thus give people a reason to better work against us!) to create a more chaotic and divided theme; I really worry that this'll just become a system of 'mail Council: vote for Defense this cycle. Next cycle vote for Religion. Next cycle vote for...' but I'm hopeful it'll be implemented in ways that remove the predictability or mundaneness of this.
~~ Team Farra'n'Stuff. ~~

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Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Wed May 11, 2016 6:09 pm

Trying to answer some questions:

- The city metric system brings tangible impacts to the world environment around you. Each city metric when high will give everyone bonuses in game, and when low, makes things more difficult. A good example that I used already in my spec was the previous suggestion of heal rates going up +30% when health is high but -30% when health is < 10.

- The one week thing - it will probably end up fortnightly, but we're on a weekly cycle to start with in game. It's just a command people type to say where their character is focusing their efforts, so it's not like a lot of work is required, though there may be some politicking to get people to change things if the Seneschal notices stuff not going strategically well.

- Correct, events run off the back of this will be monthly, not weekly.

- Is the City Council actually a guild... we haven't decided. We just decided it was a group of people comprising a certain demographics The whole rolling Court into it was because we expected Court to feel ownership over the City Council's agenda and because our plot staff are struggling with "international RPA" which has no framework and various levels of undefined impacts to the game that make how successful people are using it actually based more on 'how creative' they are and how 'the staff feels when they pick up the request' than a rigorous framework.

- The theme reason is exactly as stated - the Regency is over and the Queen is taking charge. Theref'ore a regent can no longer exist. If the regency government doesn't exist, then something must replace it.

- With regards to resistance to where the theme is going, I think that this is a good, sensible decision for the game. Some people will naturally feel the pain of loss - I saw the "I don't like change!" posts earlier .. but I think that with real environmental rewards, the play will become more fun. I take your point about only already established, powerful people being involved, and I've wondered if maybe other people, non-city council, should be able to sway the "vote" if they exercise their influence (IP).

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