It feels to me like these discussions are spiralling a little out of control, and people are perhaps overinterpreting what's being discussed.
Before the plot system, we had minor inter-duchy RP whenever events truly called for it. I'm pretty sure that's all we're seeking to go back to - a state of affairs where we aren't expected to sustain a great deal of inter-duchy RP as a matter of course.
Not removing all aspects of the game that have any chance of touching on RP outside of Lithmore - just not supporting that form of RP as a matter of everyday practice. That's all.
The End of the Regency
If we were asked 'please tone down the scale of plots, we can't handle that because of xyz' that would be fine. I- and I expect others too- would accept that.
Removing Court to reach that end seems very much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater and feels like a punishment for a behaviour we weren't informed was an issue prior to this thread.
Removing Court to reach that end seems very much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater and feels like a punishment for a behaviour we weren't informed was an issue prior to this thread.
To me, some of the alternatives or conclusions that are being suggested in reaction to this shift are pretty baby in the bath water: scratching nobles, scratching the whole roster of characters. I think it's actually fairly incredible, coming from other games, that this is a public consultation and there is this much discussion happening between players and staff.
Changes need to happen sometimes. From what I understand, the court is dissolving because the way that it was structured prior will leave people with even less to get up to. It doesn't stop people from suggesting that there are other types of involvement with this new system, especially in that there should reasonably be more purpose spread around, with GLs, titled Nobles, having a bigger difference on the play area, meaning that the little people have more politicking to do with them in order to get certain things done.
The only thing I worry about is that the votes will be whittled to a command if people don't have the time to support roleplay & interact with one another, both inside and outside of the City Council, but that's a different issue of mine outside of this change.
For one, I am appreciative that this change is being discussed with the whole game. There are two months to go. This is a lot of warning. And it's in discussion. That's all great news.
Changes need to happen sometimes. From what I understand, the court is dissolving because the way that it was structured prior will leave people with even less to get up to. It doesn't stop people from suggesting that there are other types of involvement with this new system, especially in that there should reasonably be more purpose spread around, with GLs, titled Nobles, having a bigger difference on the play area, meaning that the little people have more politicking to do with them in order to get certain things done.
The only thing I worry about is that the votes will be whittled to a command if people don't have the time to support roleplay & interact with one another, both inside and outside of the City Council, but that's a different issue of mine outside of this change.
For one, I am appreciative that this change is being discussed with the whole game. There are two months to go. This is a lot of warning. And it's in discussion. That's all great news.
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Takta
Ava's said more or less exactly how I see it - with the Council taking a lot of the domestic responsibilities from Court and staff finding it difficult to impossible to uphold the foreign responsibilities, it becomes very difficult to see what role is left for Court to play.
That said, there is also the point that this is two months in advance and we're still planning, tinkering, designing away. I'm not promising anything (definitely not - I don't make final decisions!) but I'm sure if we can figure out a good niche for Court to still occupy, it'll stick around. Punishment isn't on anyone's mind - just making sure game systems are as close to ideal as we can make them for achieving the aims we want.
That said, there is also the point that this is two months in advance and we're still planning, tinkering, designing away. I'm not promising anything (definitely not - I don't make final decisions!) but I'm sure if we can figure out a good niche for Court to still occupy, it'll stick around. Punishment isn't on anyone's mind - just making sure game systems are as close to ideal as we can make them for achieving the aims we want.
Zeita wrote:If we were asked 'please tone down the scale of plots, we can't handle that because of xyz' that would be fine. I- and I expect others too- would accept that.
Removing Court to reach that end seems very much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater and feels like a punishment for a behaviour we weren't informed was an issue prior to this thread.
We don't have to do this. We're doing this to be a good, fun thing that you folks are supposed to like. We think it's good for the game, and we think people will like it. It's supposed to make up for us taking something away. I hope someone likes it. If we completely ignore the issue of the court, and the local re-focus, will this add to fun and RP for people on grid? What are we forgetting for that?
I've been trying not to post anymore in this thread due to the over-emotional reaction I'm experiencing to it. As such, please take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
For me, personally, if Court is removed or so diluted it's not really Court anymore, I have little left to do on my main and favorite character -- the one that has all the story behind it and has kept me on TI/in love with TI for over a year. I boxed myself in by ICly signing away my ability to participate in the other guild I was invested in, which was fine because I could participate in Court. Court being neutered or phased out means I'm kind've done. By design I won't be welcome to play in the Council, and I don't have the energy to push the character into another guild. This probably sounds silly, but it's an oddly crushing blow. Guild RP has always been the prime focus of the character.
It does seem over the top to pull the plug when a simple "Guys, this is overwhelming and we need to localize plot focus" would have handled it. There are multiple problems with Court being mentioned here that have never, as far as I'm aware, been actually brought up to the Court members. I had no idea there was so much displeasure building that a Staff member has given what appears(?) to be a "Me or Court" ultimatum. I also had no idea that people believe Court has no purpose.
All else aside, I honestly don't see the point of any foreign noble uprooting and moving away to make inroads with the mayoral council of one city, even the capitol city. I don't see the point of having Great Lords (never have, on this one!) who do nothing but hang out in one city either. If we're localizing, I'm wholeheartedly with Zeita. Fully localize, get rid of inter-ducal leaders, and consider a pwipe/relaunch that's locally-focused. The relaunch would at least prevent jarring holes left by "and suddenly, there's only the city!".
For me, personally, if Court is removed or so diluted it's not really Court anymore, I have little left to do on my main and favorite character -- the one that has all the story behind it and has kept me on TI/in love with TI for over a year. I boxed myself in by ICly signing away my ability to participate in the other guild I was invested in, which was fine because I could participate in Court. Court being neutered or phased out means I'm kind've done. By design I won't be welcome to play in the Council, and I don't have the energy to push the character into another guild. This probably sounds silly, but it's an oddly crushing blow. Guild RP has always been the prime focus of the character.
It does seem over the top to pull the plug when a simple "Guys, this is overwhelming and we need to localize plot focus" would have handled it. There are multiple problems with Court being mentioned here that have never, as far as I'm aware, been actually brought up to the Court members. I had no idea there was so much displeasure building that a Staff member has given what appears(?) to be a "Me or Court" ultimatum. I also had no idea that people believe Court has no purpose.
All else aside, I honestly don't see the point of any foreign noble uprooting and moving away to make inroads with the mayoral council of one city, even the capitol city. I don't see the point of having Great Lords (never have, on this one!) who do nothing but hang out in one city either. If we're localizing, I'm wholeheartedly with Zeita. Fully localize, get rid of inter-ducal leaders, and consider a pwipe/relaunch that's locally-focused. The relaunch would at least prevent jarring holes left by "and suddenly, there's only the city!".
Last edited by Pixie on Wed May 11, 2016 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe as the heart of the empire, the centralizing of power requires ducal individuals to politick in the capitol itself. I don't know, I just seriously don't understand where the "strike the whole Jenga board down" logic comes from. I sympathize with change being difficult to be sure, especially if it's OOC stuff mixing it up with your character/their history/goals/purpose, but I don't think anyone is ultimatuming, or threatening, or punishing, here. This is being done because it'll be more fun as a game, overall, to have the stories centralized. Centralizing is good. I doubt that means that foreign plots will be entirely eradicated, just like I don't think the vibe of the court will be totally gone, and I bet there is room to negotiate, here, within the bounds of the change.
Last edited by Ava on Wed May 11, 2016 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Pixie,
We're all getting upset.
The staff are doing our best, we're trying to consult. Please be kind to us, and I promise, I'm not upset with anyone who is fearful or worried about these changes. I just want to work with people to resolve issues to the best of our ability.
To those people who feel the need to attack staff for not consulting, ironically during the consultation period - please, stop. It's derailing the conversation from potentially effective things we can do to help people who feel the way Pixie does.
I am not pwiping this game. I don't think it's necessary, either way.
I do agree that this forum post doesn't seem to have positive momentum at the moment. At this time, we're meeting with court on Saturday after the OOC Chat. I think we're better off discussing the impact to Court there. The other items surrounding these changes are fine to continue discussing as they appear less emotive.
Warm regards,
Kinaed
We're all getting upset.
The staff are doing our best, we're trying to consult. Please be kind to us, and I promise, I'm not upset with anyone who is fearful or worried about these changes. I just want to work with people to resolve issues to the best of our ability.
To those people who feel the need to attack staff for not consulting, ironically during the consultation period - please, stop. It's derailing the conversation from potentially effective things we can do to help people who feel the way Pixie does.
I am not pwiping this game. I don't think it's necessary, either way.
I do agree that this forum post doesn't seem to have positive momentum at the moment. At this time, we're meeting with court on Saturday after the OOC Chat. I think we're better off discussing the impact to Court there. The other items surrounding these changes are fine to continue discussing as they appear less emotive.
Warm regards,
Kinaed
It definitely doesn't have a positive vibe right now (the thread). I'm also definitely upset by the whole thing, and probably not at my most capable of locating any semblance of a bright side. I'll hold onto the Court-talk until the meeting.
Council concept in and of itself -- looks great. Could be really interesting to see play out. I worry about the "coalition of big-names" and the potential for becoming a sort of... game of points/votes, but it's unlikely those two things will be serious issues.
Council concept in and of itself -- looks great. Could be really interesting to see play out. I worry about the "coalition of big-names" and the potential for becoming a sort of... game of points/votes, but it's unlikely those two things will be serious issues.
My thinking around this is currently that nobles are not coming to Lithmore to meddle in local politics. But, while they're there, for their other reasons that continue to be valid, not least of which we intend for Caitrin to occasionally hold court as an intermittent event sort of thing... while they're there, might as well take part. Isn't meddling and having an effect on where you are living a sort of noble right?Pixie wrote:All else aside, I honestly don't see the point of any foreign noble uprooting and moving away to make inroads with the mayoral council of one city, even the capitol city. I don't see the point of having Great Lords (never have, on this one!) who do nothing but hang out in one city either. If we're localizing, I'm wholeheartedly with Zeita. Fully localize, get rid of inter-ducal leaders, and consider a pwipe/relaunch that's locally-focused. The relaunch would at least prevent jarring holes left by "and suddenly, there's only the city!".
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