App 4 character should get App 5 at 95 charisma

[Lily]

I think it's a bit silly that someone with 95-100 charisma, as in, someone who has near maximum/maximum charisma, is stuck at App 4 unless they spend lots of xp on getting to app 5--something that everyone could do.

Apparently there's a lot of people at app 5, and this is the reason for this, but if this is the case, then why isn't app 4 the highest app that you can purchase, with app 5 received by 95+ charisma? Then people with 40 charisma can't just buy their way to being naturally good looking, and people who want to focus on charisma as their top stat are rewarded.

This would also reduce the number of people with app 5, even if those who already have app 5 are grandfathered (though it'd be nice if they weren't, but I'd understand if they were), it would reduce it over time because of new players.

In my opinion, charisma has always been strongly linked to appearance as well as general persuasiveness, and how it is now seems to get rid of some of that link.

[Applesauce]

Hate to zoom straight to this example, but it could be argued that Hitler was extremely charismatic. But you never hear about his sexy looks. At least I don't.

I think loosening the ties between charisma and appearance is a good thing. That said, my main char usually has app 1 (normally 2 but I'm usually dirty) so I may not have the majority opinion here.

[Temi]

Indeed, this does get rid of some of the link between appearance and general persuasiveness and social aptitude - that was the intent behind the change. Being gorgeous wasn't an intended perk of super high charisma, but because they were paired, it ended up that way more than we would have liked. Instead, if beauty is a defining quality of the character, it's available for purchase, rather than also requiring them to be persuasive and socially adept.

[Lily]

The reason why I think it should be linked, is because other stats have multiple uses for them. For instance, someone with high constitution has both high health and endurance, even though someone could be considered to be perfectly healthy and have an average endurance.

As for people who are highly charasmatic but not good looking, there's always the option to purchase down your appearance. I'm not arguing for that to be gotten rid of. Now, arguably there are people who are highly beautiful but not charismatic at all, but at least in my mind, beauty is somewhat linked to charisma. If you see someone who by pure appearances should be beautiful, but they have the charisma of a brick wall, I'd argue that most wouldn't find them that beautiful.

[Dice]

Actually, I like the current way more! Cha and app are linked but not 100% synonymous. I don't think being charismatic, even as high as 95, can make you as stunningly and unusually beautiful as app 5 represents. Also, it's nice that it's rarer and more meaningful this way, as something you had to invest extra in.

[Limonade]

I think beyond even that; appearance definitely ties into things other than physical beauty. If you think about the setting; it makes sense that the Nobility presents better: better clothes, clean, healthy, better quality food and care. Beyond just being attractive, it makes sense that on first glance they would just look better. By virtue of that alone it should be more difficult to justify App. 5 in any other social class, least of all for freemen. On the flipside; I'd say that makes App. 4 even more valuable as a freeman, since you would have to combat grime, poor health, plain clothes and probably parasites and -still- look as striking as a noble/gentry 4.

Beyond that, I think mechanically imposing 'beautiful' is a pretty big ask, it's kind of like imposing 'intimidating'. Some people are just not going to buy it (at best, at worst they will resent being told what their character thinks). I think your best bet is describing classically beautiful traits and winging it. Some people will play along and some people won't, but you'll get the RP you're looking for from the former. (As an example, my freeman character, in her description, has certain classically beautiful traits, but she presents as App. 1, because on first glance it just makes no sense for anyone to be impressed. Some people notice this, some people don't, which I find more interesting, personally.)

[Kinaed]

Strictly speaking, beauty is a near universal trait (scientifically proven), and charisma is not entirely linked to beauty, albeit having a low physical appearance actually reduces charisma IRL. That's reality, but we're a game, so we only cater to that stuff as much as required to best simulate the experience and be fun.

There are actually rules in game that a character shouldn't present as classically beautiful in their description if their purchased app is less than 3 (some beauty traits are fine, it's more of an overall impression thing, so I'm not sure if that's what Limonade is getting at about her char set up). The reason for this policy is that people are actually paying for that app differentiation, so allowing people who haven't paid for it to claim it is doing a disservice to those who have invested.

Beyond that, I don't think I see the system changing to follow Lily's suggestion because, game-wise the general pbase has requested that we decouple app from charisma so people can be charismatic without having an unusual appearance. Charisma itself is a very useful stat on TI, with or without the appearance link, so there's no need to juice it up further to make it an attractive option.

[Lily]

The reason for this policy is that people are actually paying for that app differentiation, so allowing people who haven't paid for it to claim it is doing a disservice to those who have invested.

I guess? But people who invest in 95 charisma have obviously invested/paid for the appearance, so I don't know what you mean by 'haven't invested in it'. It just seems a bit silly that everyone, no matter how charismatic they are, can be beautiful if they buy it. So if everyone wanted to, everyone could eventually become super beautiful. On the other hand, if only people who invest in charisma as their highest stat can be super beautiful, then it will portray the concept of natural beauty. After all, stats have a max, but xp does not.

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree then. It's still a pretty good system, just wanted to give my opinion.