ti-legacy.com

Hello,

first off, I'm concerned topics like this lead to some very heated discussions, and the tone might quickly turn hateful. This has been my experience in other places, at least. So I ask everyone involved to stay polite and to take a break if you feel like you are getting upset.

So, we're all playing humans, right? So the term race doesn't make sense, right. It's incorrect. I get why its there - its the distinction made in character creation in fantasy games. But in this case it's just inaccurate. And I'm too German to not be nitpicky, dammit!

Especially since apparently wood elves exist, so I don't see it as likely that it's used in character to compare different human ethnicities, since then there would not be a word for the distinction between humans and elves.

I disagree. It may be incorrect in modern terms, but the setting of TI is not modern. Race is very much a thing IC. Race is even still used in modern times for categorization, and was used even more widely a couple of hundred years ago.

Vavard, Tubor, Farin, Vandago and Lithmore all culturally and socially different to be considered 'races'. Being human isn't a 'race', it's being part of a species. Even in biology race is used to differentiate between different types of subspecies.

I disagree with the notion that race is incorrect and makes no sense.

Oh, I didn't even consider species. That is a fair point. So elves would be Considered a different species?

So accepting this is a tricky topic:

A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.

This is the way in which we utilize the term within our theme/game. Cultural-Political and thus 'racial' conflicts are something that we explore within our game.

We also medically still believe and utilize medieval humorism and temperaments theory as the basis of our medical practice so categorizing things is sort of what folks do.

Also ... we don't have any Wood Elves, some I'm uncertain if someone ICly or OOCly was pulling your leg or there was a bit of a misunderstanding on something.

Yea, I figured that it's just how people in character refer to this, which is why I was fine with it. The racism helpfile made it very clear.
... I might've mistaken a joke for the truth. If there only are humans, then it would not be inaccurate to call them races.

Ethnicity is another term we could use. And I highly support having such a change.

The game is not meant to be real life. These are fictional people in a fictional sort of fantasy reality where magic is real.

I feel like quibbling about terminology and semantics would impact the immersion of the game. Though does have fantasy elements such as magic, it's still firmly rooted in a medieval-ish setting, and the term 'race' was universally used throughout all of human history until modern times.

For what it's worth, I'm absolutely against changing terminologies. Now, if we do get some wood elves and all the races of humanity unite against them... then I might think differently. Wood elves when?

TI being a fantasy world doesn't change the fact that the game has clear real-world historical influences and concepts in it, and that we as modern adult humans use metadata (i.e., character statistics) to understand it.

I actually think that "Race" - as it shows up on a character sheet - could use improving to clear up a number of ambiguities:

-It has other assumptions and associations in the medium of MUDs related to e.g. species. TI is the only game I've played that featured "races" as actual human ethnicities and while that wasn't hard for me to adjust to it does lead to confusion and uncertainty for some players.

-The character statistic is ambiguous. Daravi disguising as Farin have historically set their "race" to Farin. There have been pale-skinned Farin and Vandagan characters -- the decision I recall being that 'race' is a character's origin (or claimed origin).

-There are characters raised in Lithmore who probably don't look Lithmorran. By the above rule they would still be Lithmorran... but most VNPC's or even player characters probably wouldn't realistically see them as such!

To be clear:
This is not a call to remove the themes of racial conflict from the game, or to suggest that 'race' as a concept doesn't exist in the game setting. It's to standardize what the character sheet entry means so that the players all have a mutual understanding of what aspect of their character was selected at character generation and will likely show up in things like RPA.

-The character statistic is ambiguous. Daravi disguising as Farin have historically set their "race" to Farin. There have been pale-skinned Farin and Vandagan characters -- the decision I recall being that 'race' is a character's origin (or claimed origin).

This could be an entirely separate but related conversation on how people prefer the "cultural elements" of some of the IC groups but seem to reject the physical traits associated if doesn't fit their vibe. Or the question of having Charali/Hillish/Daravi cultural elements and/or physical traits while picking one of the "mainstream" groups to avoid the coded penalties.