Log of OOC Meeting - 12/29/18

[Starstarfish]

Kinaed states, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."


Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"


Kirill states, "I have a reminder about tomorrow's ST."


Starstarfish says, "I have something."

Kinaed states to Kirill, "Awesome "

Kinaed nods at Starstarfish.


Kinaed states, "If you have a topic, please pre-type the introduction prior to being called upon so you're ready to go."


Kinaed states, "Okay, kicking off Staff Updates - last week, I basically stopped by a few times and processed some minor requests. No policy cases, nothing major work-wise."


Kinaed states, "This week, I really should read a few specs, work on Jail Automation (I know this is becoming a long standing joke) and updating the new warrant specification to hand to Azarial. That's it for me."

Kinaed claims to Azarial, "You're up "


Azarial claims, "I've cleared a few typos off of my board, and tweaked the plot polca a bit to work better. Otherwise it's been recovering from christmas with overhyped children."

Kinaed grins.

Kinaed claims to Temi, "You're up "


Temi claims, "Also been a bit distracted for the holidays, but continuing to do some more plot stuff, processing existing ones and testing the updated system out."

Kinaed smiles.


Temi states, "Beyond that, I've been working on the turf wars and safety spec stuff"


Kinaed cheers.


Starstarfish queries, "What's the safety spec?"


Temi says, "Crystallizing some ideas, but still need some work to make it into a spec."


Temi claims, "It's all one spec"

Kinaed claims to Starstarfish, "It's how we're rolling ambient information about a room's security, roaming vNPCs, etc, into room information."


Temi states, "Basically, the expectations a location has about its safety and population and which direction allegiances go, etc."


Kinaed states, "Turf Wars was about how players could 'capture' and 'own' various parts of the game. The specifications have been combined so that player actions (for example, knights owning the streets and setting a patrol) will affect the vNPC population, etc."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi states, "And that's it for me for now."

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Tasker states, "Oh that's neat. "


Kinaed states, "Cool Thanks for that, Temi."

Kinaed nods at Tasker.

Kinaed says to Joske, "You're up. "


Joske clears his throat "Following a very similar trend, I too was distracted by the holidays, but in my spare time worked on some behind the scenes stuff for my plot, descs, strings, those sort of things."


Tasker exclaims, "Woop!"


Kuzco says, "Bards gonna have hold over King's Concourse. North AND south. "


Tasker claims, "Fight me kuzco"

Tasker bares her sword.

Kinaed grins.


Tasker states, "I picture the opening battle of gangs of new york"


Kinaed states, "Literally the kind of squabble we're hoping for, albeit with influence, not swords. "

Eon ponders.


Elysaveta queries, "Or dance battles?"


Temi states, "Or with swords, y'know."

Kinaed questions to Temi, "Sure, why not?"


Eon questions, "Does a turf war extend outside a city?"


Temi states, "My current plans are for it to be roughly area based, and some areas won't be eligible due to how they work"


Kuzco states, "Bards with berets, fingerless gloves, irish accents and shivs."


Temi says, "The wilderness at large probably won't make sense, but there may be separate areas among it"


Eon nods


Starstarfish asks, "The racial areas maybe?"

Temi nods at Starstarfish.

Starstarfish states, "Charali can finally declare the Charali camp an independent nation."


Starstarfish chuckles.


Temi says, "I'm not sure if it's set up in a different area codewise, but in principle, not opposed"


Kinaed says, "Staff may need to set up 'areas' somehow."


Kinaed claims, "But it's worth waiting to see what Temi's come up with as a starting point first. "


Kinaed asks, "Okay, Joske - anything further to add?"


Temi states, "But the spec is still pretty green. It'll develop more before anybody needs to worry."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Joske says, "Nothing at the moment"

Kinaed says to Joske, "Thanks "


Kinaed muses, "Okay, that's it for Staff Updates - now to Player Heartbeat! How was the game this week, folks? RP fun?"


Kuzco claims, "Yeah. Rather quiet due to holidays, but I got stuff going on."

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.


Kirill states, "It's been a bit slow for the holidays, but I'm looking forward to next weekend. Sounds like the Let's MUD thing is slated for then, and I plan to be hanging out at the Almshouse on one character or another to snag RP with as many newbs as I can."


Kinaed says, "I've noticed we've had a major drop in pbase, but I think it's common over the Christmas period."

Azarial nods.


Temi states, "Unfortunately I'll be missing next weekend, but hopefully it's a lot of fun for everyone"

Kinaed states to Kirill, "Thanks for that. I actually saw a recommend go through for your doing just that, and I was thrilled/impressed."


Temi claims, "And we can snag some new longer term players"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed states, "It'd be good to meet new people regardless of whether they stick around though."


Tasker exclaims, "I hope someone snabs up the Grand Master application for the Knights!"


Kirill claims, "I have no idea what to expect, but I figure the best way to rope the one's that'll stick is to immerse 'em with solid RP."


Kinaed states, "Reminds me that someone poked me about Aides again last week. Staff are having a discussion about various things on Talking Points after this meeting, and Aides is on the list."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Kinaed states to Kirill, "That's what we're here for, for sure. If they enjoy it, that's definitely the way to go."


Kinaed states, "I do wonder what kind of players will be popping around though."


Kinaed claims, "I think the bulk of games out there are hack and slash at the moment still."


Starstarfish says, "It really depends on where they are coming from."


Kinaed queries, "Anything shitting anyone about the game that they want to raise (that isn't already a topic this week)?"

Kinaed nods at Starstarfish.

Kinaed claims to Starstarfish, "I firmly believe MUDs are still the best medium for roleplay. Hack and slash - well, I think a lot of graphical games can do H&S better."


Kinaed smiles at SilverMoon.


Azarial nods at Kinaed.


Kirill states, "The 'opposed' guild metrics seems to be shitting some people, though not me personally. I'm not in a traditional 'guild' playing a traditional sort of 'guild member' so I don't have the same kind of horse in the race."

Kinaed claims to SilverMoon, "Hey, we're past Staff Updates, in Player Heartbeat."


SilverMoon snorts. "Thanks, I can use this ... somehow

SilverMoon grins.

Kinaed nods at Kirill.


Kuzco states, "I'm still perplexed as to how writing is supposed to work. I avoid it entirely now, and instead use extended descs."

Kinaed says to Kirill, "I haven't read the forums yet, I should get onto that."

Temi says to Kirill, "I think it caught people by surprise and we didn't handle a good rollout, rather than there actually being a problem with it"


Kuzco says, "And yeah I can't wrap my head at this opposed metrics thing."

Kinaed says to Kuzco, "Have you tried it at all recently? From what I understand, it's a pretty simple POLCA where you just fill in various parts of a document."


Kinaed wonders, "If you're feeling that far behind, it might be best if I or another staff member meet with you and walk you through it?"

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "I didn't try it this week no. Last week it was a nightmare."


Elysaveta states, "Can the keywords be changed? That was my biggest issue, I couldn't do that."

Kinaed comforts Kuzco.

Kirill asks of Kinaed, "I have some suggested improvements for the ST system on the forums. I could probably narrow it down to the low-hanging fruit and pboard, if that'd be easier than trying to remember to read my novel on the forums?"

Kuzco says to Temi, "The surprise doesn't bother me, it's Bards spreading Aids to get money what confuses me."


SilverMoon wonders, "I have no idea how to do stories, and ... I will learn eventually?"


Starstarfish trails off, "There's an explination there, but ..."


Kinaed states to Kirill, "You can write that, but I'd recommend it as 'in addition to' the forums, not alone, as pboard messages disappear, and I can't promise action quickly enough to save the suggestions."


SilverMoon bliks. Aids?


Azarial says, "No; keywords are as a reference. single page items should take the keywords off of the item"


Azarial claims, "Multipage items are numbered as per the norm."


Elysaveta states, "Hm, I'll have to try it again, I didn't notice that it did that for single page items."


Elysaveta says, "Which made reading things difficult."


Azarial states, "I've been fixing typos and what not."

Kirill nods at Kinaed.


SilverMoon queries, "Oh you mean those messagey things? I had to literally type read message"

Kinaed states to SilverMoon, "Aides are basically helpers that we removed awhile back because it seemed like it was largely some sort of IC "special flag" rather than what it was intended to be, which was players helping players."


SilverMoon states, "Which looked weird, becuse it was a letter."


Kuzco states, "I meant Aids. The disease."


SilverMoon says, "Ooooh, ok, thanks sorry I know I walked right into the middle of this. "


Tasker states, "My sides"


SilverMoon says, "I don't have aids, thanks."


SilverMoon says, "I'm very clean... A clean woman."


Kinaed claims, "Oh, sorry. Sometimes it gets spammy on my side of the world, and I miss people's comments."


Kuzco states, "I'll repeat."

Kuzco states to Temi, "The surprise doesn't bother me, it's Bards spreading Aids to get money what confuses me."


Kinaed says, "Well, that sentence confuses me."


Azarial asks, "Ahh. lowering the health metric, you mean?"


Kinaed questions, "What?"


SilverMoon says, "It confuses me too, which is why I binked."

Kuzco nods at Azarial.


Kinaed claims, "Oh, I think Norrig is being sarcastic because he doesn't agree with the new metric setup. Gotcha."

Temi nods at Kinaed.


SilverMoon trails off, "Oh..."


Kuzco declaims, "I am being FUNNY, not sarcastic!"


Kuzco huffs.


Starstarfish says, "It was going to be my topic, but we can just discuss it now as it's sort of already on the table."


SilverMoon states, "I'm sorry my dear I didn't get it."


Kinaed states, "Sorry! And sorry about dropping your name too. *sigh*"

Kirill says to Temi, "I am thinking it might be less confusing if the printout under CITY REPORT didn't use the word 'opposes'."


Temi states, "I agree."


Kinaed says, "For the record, I've been awake, maybe an hour. My eyes are still gummy, and apparently so is my brain."

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "Yeah I want a hunned QP >=x"

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "I'll give you two for the trouble. "

Temi states to Kirill, "It might be easier to stomach as 'can take advantage of low x'"


Kinaed states, "I'd like to table the oppposing metrics thing until I can read the forums. "

Azarial questions to Kinaed, "Would a 'hunned' quest point be elephant trampled?"


Kirill states, "Or 'receives more income when X is low'."


Kirill claims, "Take advantage of also sounds evil."


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Now then, if we can get back on track, it's almost half way through our hour - and we have a couple of topics "


Kinaed questions, "Kirill, won't you introduce us to your topic?"


Kirill states, "Just a reminder about tomorrow's ST, which should be kicking off around 2:30pm server or so. See STORY REVIEW 126 for the deets."

Kirill nods.

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed says to Kirill, "Thanks heaps "


Kirill exclaims, "I have TEN GOLD COINS to give to the brave adventurers who join the ST. Newbies welcome!"


Kirill states, "Not individually."

Kirill grins.


Kinaed whistles low.


Kirill says, "I mean, to the group."


SilverMoon gasps.


Kuzco says, "I'll be there."


SilverMoon says, "I'm not brave though, I'm very unbrave."

Kinaed says to SilverMoon, "Pish posh, from what I hear, it's death only by agreement."

SilverMoon grins.


SilverMoon says, "Oh boy"


Temi states, "It's easy to be brave when you have a guarantee of safety."

Temi grins.


Kirill claims, "If you're worried about getting hurt, I suggest hiding behind the beefy attendees."


Elysaveta claims, "I'll give it a try, my character is good at being mauled, at least "

Kinaed wonders to Starstarfish, "Okay, you're up. Please introduce us to your topic?"

Kirill claims, "Human shields FTW."


SilverMoon grins at Kir.


Starstarfish says, "Ah, well ... as my topic was related to the topic that is now tabled, hmm."

Kinaed claims to Starstarfish, "Oh, go ahead and raise it."


Maatu says, "Okay. Settled in at work and all caught up."


Eon says, "I have 0 combat skill but i have maxed out my common sense"

Kinaed states to Starstarfish, "But note that I won't really have any answers until I've read the forums, etc."


Starstarfish claims, "My topic as related to the discussion about Negative Metrics is how to encourage against essentially IC political apathy. And that ICly it has come up during RP this week that if someone can get "rewarded" for said apathy - IE, a negative metric giving an equal reward as a positive one, that makes encouraging people to get involved in things more difficult."


Kinaed pops open the forums iaw to have a look.


Temi says, "We are looking at it more as providing vested interests in conflicts."


Kinaed claims, "Everyone has a positive metric, I don't imagine too many people go running around screaming 'let's make negative metrics' even if some have a vested interest in things being negative."


Temi claims, "And refusing to get involved in something you want because they plan to take advantage of it is certainly valid."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi says, "And is more of a conflict than apathy."


Temi states, "Though I could see them playing it as apathy."


Kinaed says, "Conflict provides RP hooks, just in a different way. Apathy may be one way they'd validly/publicly approach it."


Kirill states, "I let certain metrics stay low all the time because it's in my character's best interests. But I'm always politically active in increasing the metrics that benefit me when they're high."


Kirill claims, "Swaying metrics for the greater good is the though part, IMO, and takes a lot more work. But definitely is doable."


Joske states, "I'd like to remind folks benefitting from Negative metrics have already existed in the form of assets. I doubt everyone's assets are wholly positive based. Just guilds now also have a way to benefit from a metric in the negative."


SilverMoon is always trying to sway for the greater good, adly.


Kirill claims, "That's the way I see it. It's a bonus or silver lining when things suck."


Temi states, "And we don't expect people to always do the most that they can to make the most money. It is fine to ignore the negative metrics. I don't see most physicians plotting to collapse buildings just so they can patch up extra wounds... but it -does- provide an in for that one devious physician that finds the idea appealing."


SilverMoon nods her head.


Starstarfish claims, "A difficulty related to this is that when a lot of the changes to Metrics went in with assets et al, an idea was that noble projects would be a big way to bolster/influence/change Metrics. However, at present, there is indeed no negative or cost to nobles who do not opt to involve themselves in said systems or politics at large. Further ... that people can know as stated it is in their best interest OOCly and ICly for certain Metrics to remain "low" but ICly generally that plays out in RP as one person being "blamed" for that being true despite the OOC awareness that it's an inherent design of the system."


SilverMoon claims, "Noble projects kinda confuse me a little bit."


Maatu questions, "What are the negative metrics being talked about? "


Temi claims, "Part of what we wanted from noble projects was to provide a reason to engage nobles, and to convince them to get involved."


SilverMoon questions, "I figure it's like a plot, right? S it's effected like that?"


Kuzco claims, "But yeah, there is no incentive to them really save to gain money from a preferred metric."


Joske wonders, "Has that not been the incentive all along?"


Kirill states, "It's true that when metrics are low, the fingers often get pointed at guildleaders viewed as "responsible" for those metrics. And that does kind of suck, in that it's added stress/pressure on top of an already demanding role."

Kuzco states to Joske, "The absolute lack of projects for a while should be telling."


Kirill says, "There's plenty of incentive for nobles to use the projects system."


SilverMoon trails off, "I just was a bit confused and kind of stressy about things, so..."


Kirill states, "Granted, prestige isn't on that list yet."


Elysaveta says, "There are also aren't that many nobles, if you don't include Great Lords."


Starstarfish queries, "Not everyone sees the same kinds of incentives, clearly, so maybe it's about how to many those incentives more obvious?"


Elysaveta states, "At least that I've seen actively around."


Kirill states, "I've never run a noble project that benefitted my character's personal financial assets. In fact, most of the time, I end up bleeding money."


Temi claims, "I think it's fine for some incentives to be ones placed by social pressure."


Kuzco claims, "I don't know any incentive at all aside from non coded reputayion."


Kuzco states, "Reputation"


Kuzco states, "And no cost either for not doing it."


Kinaed is still reading the forums and just caught up here.


Starstarfish claims, "The reaction to social pressure people don't like seems to often be liquidating or not playing that character."


Kinaed claims, "We have this on the list of Staff Talking Points, by the way."


Joske claims, "And that is wholly those people"

Anteya is idle.


Joske claims, "And that is wholly those people's choice. This is a non-consensual game."


Kinaed ponders.


Kinaed says, "Yes and no. We have to acknowledge that how we design systems can easily impact game playability and enjoyability."


Kinaed says, "That said, I don't think city metrics are bad, and I think there's plenty of room for them in play overall."


SilverMoon claims, "And it's not just pressure but sometimes just not knowing how to handle something asked of you."

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "I don't think their merit is being disputed "

Kinaed claims to SilverMoon, "Perhaps, but it's also nice that city metrics are causing people to ask other people to do things."


SilverMoon grins and nods. "Oh I agree."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "No, but clearly implementation is an issue - or it's not, and people are just upset with the status quo changing and certain things getting harder. It's a bit difficult to judge so early in a change."


Temi claims, "I think part of the issue is just people weren't expecting this and they were told randomly that their guild opposes something they don't oppose.. and we could have rolled it out better."

Starstarfish says, "Part of it, in my opinion, is that assets, exist at the moment in the same way that bank lockers did - they cannot be interacted with, discovered, RPAed or found out. People can be making money off something, and there's no way to discover, RP, or RPA their assets that they are "invested" in something failing, but they ICly get the "benefit" of hiding their success and can blame other people for it ICly. And that's ... problematic."


Kinaed states, "But to be clear, the Reeves and Thieves, Order and mage groups have collectively battled for control over various metrics for some time. And we're only talking about how much money people make in terms of a delta. So if people are willing to earn less money, then it's a non-issue for most."

Kinaed wonders to Starstarfish, "Who told you they cannot be discovered through RPA?"


Temi says, "It shouldn't have as big of an impact as it suddenly feels like, but it should provide new plot hooks for interested people."


Kirill states, "Sounds like intrigue, my favorite."


Starstarfish says, "I asked at a meeting around the time assets started."


Kirill claims, "I do sympathize with the added pressure/stresses metrics place on guildleaders, who already have demanding roles."


Kinaed states, "Hmm, you may have to point that out to me, because it sounds wrong. I'll add that to staff talking points and confirm what our RPA standards are around assets, and also post them in the help file for good."


Temi states, "They should be open for RPA, but we don't have another system... though, I will be upset if I get RPAs asking for what someone's assets are. RPA is what your character is doing, not the goal of what you want."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kirill states, "Just knowing someone's assets doesn't tell you how they're using their city action."


Kinaed wonders, "So a look into someone's assets might be an RPA to dig through files at the Townhall Records, not 'can you tell me what Kinaed's assets are please?'"


SilverMoon claims, "Noble is a bit of a demanding role too, sooo... I mean it can be. Though I will say that guild leader roles are demanding as well. I had one once."


Temi states, "We did discuss at some point having a system to make the info more public, though"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed claims to GALAX, "We're discussing City Metrics and Assets at the moment."


GALAX waves sleepily


SilverMoon waves and coogiggles


Kinaed states, "We have about 10 minutes left until we hit the top of the hour."

Kinaed claims to Starstarfish, "Well, as mentioned, I don't think I can have an answer for you right now, in this meeting. I've noted this for Staff Talking Points, and staff have a meeting right after this where we'll be going over said talking points."

Starstarfish nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed says to Starstarfish, "I appreciate your willingness to bring up your thoughts and concerns so we have the opportunity to address them."

Starstarfish states, "I think the difficulty is ... what the intent is/was and the outcome might not be exactly lining up. You know ... people being people and whatnot."


Kinaed wonders, "Is there anything else anyone wants to discuss related to this topic?"

Kinaed nods at Starstarfish.


Kirill queries, "When is Prestige going back on the to-do list?"


Kuzco says, "Nah, said my piece."


Temi states, "There's some parts of prestige in"


SilverMoon wonders, "How can you figure out your prestige?"


SilverMoon asks, "Is it score?"


Kirill says, "Its under HELP PLAYER <name>"


Temi says, "There's some updated stuff on Az's list too, when he gets some time for it"


Kuzco states, "It's for nobles."


SilverMoon says, "Oh thank you"

Kinaed claims to Kirill, "As far as I know, it's still there, but I don't know that we've fleshed out what the nest steps need to look like beyond what we currently have. Perhaps we ought to schedule a working group discussion for it."

Kinaed asks of Temi, "Point me to that?"


Temi claims, "Bug 136 is what I see"

Kinaed says to Temi, "Thanks, looking."

SilverMoon grins.


Kirill states, "I may be the only person right now who would really benefit from finishing the system, unfortunately. But I dunno, maybe having it completed would be an incentive for nobles to be more active."


Kinaed claims, "Okay, planned in that note: bonus prestige for having high monthly taxes, wearing prestige items, net payments out of your account."

Kinaed wonders to Temi, "Please bump that bug?"

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Kinaed states to Kirill, "I'd be happy to invite you and one or two other invested players to meet with staff and do a working group to add other things."


Starstarfish says, "That raises the question if Prestige should be more "Reputation" in general and open up to things for non-nobles as well."

Temi finishes her note.


SilverMoon asks, "Like gentry perhaps?"


Kinaed says, "I'll make a note of that query also."


Kuzco claims, "Prestige for completing projects"

SilverMoon nods.


Kuzco claims, "Kirill for President"


Kirill claims, "Heh."


SilverMoon raises a victory piece sign.


Kinaed asks, "If we were to invite 3 players to participate in a Prestige Working group, who wants in?"


Kirill claims, "Would love to earn prestige for completing projects, yes. The more influential the projects, though, the more prestige should be earned."

Kuzco nods at Kirill.


Kirill states, "That's my thinking. I think right now it's specc'd as if all projects are worth equal prestige."

Starstarfish says, "I'd join the discussion."

Kinaed says to Starstarfish, "Thanks, got you now."


Kirill claims, "I'm in, of course."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.


Kinaed queries, "One more?"


Kuzco says, "Eh, sure"

Kinaed says to Kuzco, "Thanks. "


Kuzco claims, "I expect to be raised to nobility, of course"


Kuzco claims, "To make it fair"


Kinaed coughs.


SilverMoon says, "No"


SilverMoon states, "Sorry I had to say it."


Kuzco cackles.


GALAX questions, "Wouldn't having a non noble perspective be important for the design anyway?"

Kinaed exclaims, "Okay that's taken us to the top of the hour! Thanks for attending this week's OOC Chat, everyone!"


Elysaveta pontificates, "Good try though!"


GALAX grins.

SilverMoon grins.


Kuzco claims, "Yo vote on voting links, recommend each other, tip your bards"


Elysaveta says, "And I have a small event happening after this, so messengers with IC detils will be sent out for anyone interested in attending."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "Aww, thanks "


Kirill waves.


SilverMoon says, "Give your bards all the moey'Money. woo"

SilverMoon waves.


Kinaed pontificates, "Okay, thanks you everyone. Hopefully, I'll see you all next week, same time, same place! Enjoy the game!"