Log of OOC Meeting - 2022-02-19

[Deedee]

Temi queries, "Okay, so our agenda for today.  Sorry for the chaos!  1)  Staff updates, 2)  Player Heartbeat, 3)  Player Topics.  Anyone have topics to get on the list to start with?"

Deedee states, "I've got something"

Temi wonders, "Thanks Deedee!  Anyone else?"

Temi claims, "Alright, well, if anyone thinks of anything, feel free to let us know and we'll get you on the list."

Temi questions, "So, staff updates.  Leta, want to start?"

Leta claims, "I mostly spent time on Temi's plot. I did help with player questions, requests and recommends as usual though. And worked through some recipes that didn't salvage properly."

Temi declares, "Thanks Leta!  I appreciate the help with the plot muchly"

Temi muses, "Salem?"

Salem claims, "I made Shop shelves happen and we got some role code stuff coming and going."

Ghed claims, "Salem just kicked the code to the moon (s)"

Temi exclaims, "Thanks Salem!"

Temi claims, "Shop shelves are added to the help pshop helpfile, and can be used to organize shop backrooms"

Temi says, "I added three new crafts to make them - different display objects, one in woodworking, one in blacksmithing and one in art."

Kinaed steps out of your shadow. [OOC]

Temi queries, "Ghed?"

Ghed nods.

Kinaed will just listen as she's late. Sorry everyone. Someone came to the door unexpectedly.

Ghed claims, "I did the usual sleuth of phome requests, recommends, and stuff. I added a new mob in Southside, and came up with a new mobjob (a new script for your owned NPCs). You can see it in help mobjobs."

Ghed claims, "I think that's it but I may be forgetting something"

Temi exclaims, "Ghed has also been running one of my plot NPCs, so thanks to him muchly too!"

MUDnoob gives Ghed a big thumbs up for resolving a request within 60 seconds of it being posted.

Temi states, "For myself, I added the crafts for the shop displays, and I have been working on drawing the big Tubori succession plot to a close"

Temi declares, "Please come join us for court after this to wrap that up, and we hope many of you will get involved!"

Temi says, "The king will also take other petitions, so feel free to bring those up as well"

Ghed blushes at MUDnoob 

Temi pontificates, "So... that's that!"

Temi wonders, "Kinaed?"

Ghed nods.

Kinaed claims, "Last week, I spent a bit of time working on getting more programming capability, and I spent some time working on the role purchasing code stuff that's coming in so players can buy into guilds in chargen. "

Kinaed claims, "This week will be continuing that work - also big thanks to Salem for hand holding me and doing almost all of our coding at the moment."

Deedee states, "Thanks for your work, Kin. My topic is regarding a part of that"

Kinaed orients her ears to Deedee. 

Deedee claims, "Oh, we can discuss it during player topics"

Temi wonders, "Alright!  That's all the staffers.  Player heartbeat now?"

Kinaed says, "Will do."

StormyBoi states, "Been pretty scarce lately, sorta burnt out irl but happy to get some scraps of rp here and there"

Sparkles states, "Ah, some interesting scenes. A bit of a quiet week."

Kinaed nods at StormyBoi.

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Temi nods.

StormyBoi claims, "Excited about the court tho"

Kinaed states, "It was a quiet week, yes. :)"

Deedee says, "I've had about the busiest week ever IRL, so sorry if I'm neglecting anyone on here"

Kinaed claims, "Glad there's some excitement for the court session."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Temi says, "We have heard it's been a bit quiet.  It got me out of bringing a few NPCs in though when there weren't anyone available to want them"

Temi grins.

Kinaed states, "Me too. I worked multiple 12 hour days this week."

Koukakala says, "I had some goo scenes."

Kinaed smiles at Koukakala.

Koukakala states, "*good"

Temi says, "Goo scenes can also be good... but it's a little less certain."

Temi grins.

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed queries, "Anyone else want to share how their week was?"

Deedee states, "Depends on the goo."

Kinaed claims, "Not the kind that stains curtains."

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, let's move on to Player Topics - we have only one, so... :)"

Temi says, "Depends on whose curtains."

Temi grins.

Kinaed questions to Deedee, "Introduce us?"

Deedee nods.

Deedee says, "So there's a system coming in to purchase promotions in guilds, but it looks like as it's being implemented, the required skill check is only based on a single skill. I think most guilds don't have a single skill they require for a rank, but one of several. For example, the bards probably want any one of several performance skills at a certain level, the merchants one of several trade skills, or for the Physicians either Medicine or Herbalism, or sometimes a minimum in both. Could it be implemented for the skill check to take AND and OR? E.g. 'Medicine AND Herbalism 36' to require at least 36 in both, and 'Medicine OR Herbalism 47' To require 47 in at least one."

Kinaed says to Temi, "My eldest once brought home neon yellow slime and got it on the white curtains."

Temi comforts Kinaed.

Ghed has transferred Trajen.  [OOC]

Temi gives a wide metal punchbowl floating a duo of half-coconut ships to Trajen.

Kinaed says, "You can add multiple skills, but we'd like to keep it at no more than 3."

Leta says, "You are able to set it as skill categories as well, I believe."

Temi asks, "Are the multiple skills ors or ands?"

Salem claims, "Ands at the moment."

StormyBoi queries, "To my understand, aren't there separate lore wise titles for physicians based on whether they specialize in medicine OR herbalism?"

Kinaed says, "It's technically unlimited, you can physically add as many skills as you want, but if you're asking a person to master more than 3, it's probably a bit much."

Kinaed states, "So the note I wrote to GLs said 'please don't put more than 3 skills on a role you create'."

Deedee says, "Yeah. my concern isn't on the ANDs as much as the ORs"

Kinaed claims, "You can create two different roles if you want, one with herbalism, one with medicine."

StormyBoi states, "Previously, herbalists were totally viable with just herbalism, in the helpfiles for the physicians when I had one, and you can technically be a master physician without knowing how to tend various exotic herbs, as that gives room for another player to specialize,  then, in herbalism"

Kinaed states, "They can be at the same rank."

Anonymous states, "These days you tend to just get both skills as you go."

StormyBoi states, "I think it's a bit narrow minded to try to force every player to take every skill you might think is needed and cut out involving others"

StormyBoi says, "Especially since TI as a game largely suffers from 'im gonna do everything'ism"

Kinaed claims, "If you need help setting up what you want, just see me and I'll help you. As it is, nothing you're asking for here isn't already available, just a bit of know-how required."

MUDnoob claims, "Truth, but it makes sense that where there are two skills involved in making medicines, physicians should want both. :D"

Deedee claims, "I see."

Anonymous claims, "Well the thing is that they're closely intertwined. Many cures are in herbalism and not medicine. And you need herbalism to get the ingredients to make medicine."

Trogdor is idle.

Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

Salem questions, "What cures would that be?"

Deedee states, "There's some dual-use things that are poisons but also cures, and those are in herbalism"

MUDnoob says, "Smelling salts, Vavardi Breakfast, Warming Brew, etc."

MUDnoob says OOCly, "All in herbalism."

Temi states, "Most of the strict medicines are in medicine, but there are curative multi-function things in herbalis"

trogdor is no longer idle.
Trogdor has returned from AFK.

Kinaed muses, "So... is my saying we can put up to three skills on a rank not solving this?"

Deedee states, "Anyway, an OR option would really help to streamline it"

Deedee claims, "No, not quite"

Kinaed muses, "Why can't we just create two roles named the same?"

Kinaed asks, "One representing each path?"

Deedee states, "We can, but that would get very spammy for guilds like merchants or troubs"

Kinaed says, "They've got entire categories of skills they set to whatever rank."

Kinaed states, "Like "Trade 40" means they need at least one skill in trade at 40."

Sparkles claims, "In fairness, I feel like there's a lot of assumption being made on behalf of what the Troubadours are going to ask for."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Deedee wonders, "Can herbalism and Medicine be moved into their own category?"

Temi says, "I think Physicians are probably the one in the strangest position."

StormyBoi says, "Making every physician master both skills means that there is no room for having two characters working together--there's no need for high level herbalists alone, because every doctor also is a master herbalist. So no one can make just an herbalist since that niche is never open because of the mindset they need both "

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "I just did something to get a template in, and am happy to work with you to make it what you want it to be."

Sparkles nods at Kinaed.

Temi states, "Since their skills are more scattered across categories"

StormyBoi states, "I'm pretty sure you can say 'x herbalism for herbalist' and 'x medicine for physician' and call it a day"

Temi claims, "Whereas troubadours or merchants could pretty much just take antying in their category"

Deedee says, "Stormy, I'm not trying to require both. that's the rub."

StormyBoi repeats the thing he just said

Kinaed wonders to Deedee, "Why don't we meet and see if we can set up what you want?"

Temi states, "If it's just one or two branches in the case it's up, extra roles shouldn't be a big problem"

They aren't here.

Kinaed claims, "Can do it outside of OOC Chat."

Deedee nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

StormyBoi states, "Especially as this is just a buy-in during chargen, its just to get them INTO the game as an established character"

Deedee states, "It won't only be chargen"

Temi nods at Deedee.

StormyBoi queries, "Are we completely doing away with promotions and custom ranks/subranks from GLs?"

Kinaed claims, "You do it in chargen as high as you want. In game, a player can buy a rank they meet the pre-reqs for so long as they have 1 OOC month and 30 RP hours in their current role."

Kinaed says to StormyBoi, "No, GLs can bypass this if they want."

Kinaed claims, "So they can promote someone or demote someone, and block people from promoting."

StormyBoi states, "OK, then this seems sorta like a moot point, come in fresh with whatever role you buy, get funky with it later"

Deedee wonders, "Does the XP people spend on purchasing a promotion get refunded if they're demoted by a GL?"

Kinaed claims, "Yes, base levels can be purchased in a guild straight up. Theoretically, a person can buy straight up to whatever role they want in chargen, but out of chargen have some mandatory pacing."

Kinaed says to Deedee, "No."

Kinaed states, "At least, if it's working correctly, no."

StormyBoi muses, "Are we making players able to promote their own character instead of enforcing GLs promoting them at a reaonsable rate?"

StormyBoi states, "This seems like a lot of work for something we already have a policy for"

Deedee says, "I could see that causing some um"

Deedee states, "Resentment"

Kinaed claims, "I suspect that this will overtake people seeking GL promotions, likely."

Ghed nods.

StormyBoi says, "If we have GL who is refusing to promote players to the point we're codifying something, I feel like you should probably just deal with that GL"

Temi claims, "It should take some pressure off GLs and let them focus more on the RP environment"

StormyBoi says, "As a GL I have never had issues promoting players as needed in this game or the other one"

Temi states, "It's less about refusing to, and more about number of things to keep up on"

Kinaed claims to StormyBoi, "Thank you for being able to be that GL, but not everyone is. And we lose players over this, whether it be because their Squire has been a squire for more the 8 OOC months or not."

Temi claims, "We have had a hard time keeping good GLs, so we're looking for ways to make it easier for them.  Give them the power without the paperwork."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Anonymous claims, "There are honestly times where someone in a guild is just not going to get promoted because they ICly don't jive or get along with the GL."

Deedee wonders, "Can roles set the subrank as well as the rank?"

Kinaed claims, "And a GL can block if they want to."

Trogdor states, "Oh snap"

StormyBoi claims, "If that's the issue it should be addressed ICly, rather than languishing a character in limbo"

Kinaed states, "Yes, the GL can set the subrank as well."

Kinaed claims to StormyBoi, "Yes, it should, but almost always isn't."

Deedee muses, "Well, I mean can purchasing a role set the subrank?"

Kinaed says to Deedee, "No, only the GL can set a subrank."

StormyBoi states, "That sounds like it might be a policy issue then, rather than something we should be codifying"

Sparkles states, "I feel like sometimes 'don't jive with the GL' is sometimes taken a bit liberally but that's likely a whole conversation."

Kinaed states, "The GLs create the roles, people buy them."

StormyBoi says, "I really, honestly and truly don't think we need more than 'I am in the guild' in chargen and the GL should work with the character as best they can after that, and if we are struggling with that, that is a failing of the GL"

Kinaed says to StormyBoi, "Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. Staff disagree and have put a lot of work into something that meets as many interests as possible."

Ghed states, "Let's give the new system a shot and see what happens"

Temi nods.

Kinaed states, "This has been in the cards and on the table for months, and we've been discussing it openly. Now we are at the stage of setting it up."

Kinaed nods at Ghed.

Ghed states, "If it fails and produces bad results we can always review it"

Deedee says, "I'm not sure how it'll work out, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Just trying to make sure no one's left out with it"

Kinaed claims, "There are other games that have this already and are doing just fine."

Trogdor says, "I say lets give it a shot too"

Kinaed says to Deedee, "Thank you. Also, once it is in, we are very happy to hear about problems with it and to fix them."

Kinaed states to trogdor, "Thank you :)"

Deedee nods at Kinaed.

Temi states, "It is a change in paradigm, and not a knock against the GLs doing a great job, and we have definitely had a good number of those.  But it does account for the guilds that may lack GLs or have a rotating door for them."

Trogdor states, "I can see a few instances where i think it would came in handy... and i like that i can block it. it's like having my cake and eating it too"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi claims, "We're hoping it lets them focus on the fun stuff without taking away their actual power."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi has transferred Wimpled.  [OOC]

Temi gives a wide metal punchbowl floating a duo of half-coconut ships to Wimpled.

StormyBoi states, "Is promoting your GL and helping them grow via lessons and guild RP not considered 'fun' lmao, that was one of my favorite parts"

Ghed claims, "Wait what I love that"

Temi grins.

StormyBoi states, "Guild member rather, maybe i am just the weird one here"

Kinaed says, "I think there are a lot of different tastes in this space."

Deedee claims, "That's still an option, and free."

MUDnoob claims, "Oh I also enjoy that from the guild member side, Stormy. :D"

Ghed says, "You can and should still have training lessons with your guildies"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Deedee states, "Purchasing promotions costs XP, so I think most will opt for the traditional way"

Ghed claims, "They do need to level those skills and some are very hard, like combat skills"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Ghed states, "Some guilds also require non coded skills, like Inquisitor detective stuff"

Anonymous claims, "I found foraging far harder to levle than combat skills, lol."

Anonymous trails off, "Not that i... forage... of course not.. heh. heh..."

Ghed says, "Anyhow, we'll take any feedback happily"

Deedee states, "Forage seemed pretty easy to level last I checked, though it's hungry work"

Kinaed questions, "Any other questions, comments or queries on this topic? I'll meet with Deedee after and make sure the setup for her guild is as she wants it. Anyone else need to meet with Staff to adjust their guild setup?"

Trogdor claims, "Probably me, but i want to take a crack at it by myself first"

Kinaed says, "What I put in could be wrong, it was just a preliminary setup to get something in before we bring it live."

Kinaed nods at trogdor.

Deedee states, "The note said not to adjust the skill levels, but I wondered if I could bring them in line with what's already listed in help physicians promotions"

Kinaed states to trogdor, "Of course. Let me know if you need help with any of the commands. I have updated the HELP COMMAND ROLES file, but I needed to get some additional syntax from Salem (ie, was ti role block or role restrict) which I'll make sure are added today."

Kinaed states, "We don't expect to go live with this player side until later in the week, so GLs you have until next Saturday to adjust your roles as you like."

Trogdor wonders, "What happens after saturday?"

Deedee trails off, "That's not a lot of time..."

Kinaed says to Deedee, "Let's discuss that outside of OOC Chat because it's very specific to the guild"

Deedee nods at Kinaed.

Trogdor queries, "Like, can i no longer adjust roles?"

Kinaed says to trogdor, "Er, it's Sunday here."

Kinaed wonders, "So Saturday is 7 days from now?"

Kinaed states to trogdor, "Nah, in 7 days we'll open the command for players to purchase roles."

Temi wonders, "You should continue to be able to adjust them, but players may start using them?"

Kinaed states, "You can always adjust your roles."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed says, "We haven't rolled that out yet though, and we may hold off if things are broken."

Trogdor states, "Oh man, i'm going to have like, 50 different hierarchies it's gonna be great"

Deedee claims, "Sounds like a mess, haha"

Kinaed claims, "So, please remember that what you create will be visible to new players coming in. Part of this is to get new players hooked into the game more deeply with roles they can play earlier in the gameplay experience so they have more fun and stick around."

Trogdor states, "Acolyte, 2nd year acolyte, 3rd year acolyte, 4th year, sub priest, lt priest, priest, master priest, archmaster priest >;-)"

Anonymous says, "Good god"

Kinaed queries, "So, they'll be new, and so... maybe keep it to a dull roar?"

Trajen says, "Lol"

Kinaed states, "I think Trogdor's pulling my leg now."

Trajen claims, "Archbishop shoe shiner levle 1"

Trogdor pontificates, "It's called the order, not the out of order!"

Deedee nods.

Kinaed queries, "Okay, with six minutes to go, what would you like to talk about?"

Deedee says, "The new shop code sounds awesome"

Deedee asks, "Who do we thank for that? (Or blame is it breaks?)"

Kinaed pontificates, "Salem!"

Salem muses, "Huh? yes"

Kinaed says, "Salem did it, and Salem is indeed awesome :)"

Temi states, "The crafts are my fault, but Salem gets credit for any good stuff."

Temi grins.

Deedee grins.

Temi claims, "I tested though and they seem to work"

Deedee says, "Anyway, it sounds like it'll make keeping a shop much much less of a chore"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Temi nods in agreement.

Temi says, "Very excited for the merchants."

Temi says, "And the Yule faire"

Deedee says, "So just to check"

Salem states, "Yeah. i took two days to make it. I hope it ain't too buggy."

Trajen has lost link.

Deedee queries, "The container doesn't show as a display in the shop now? You'll need to make a non-container sign to put before it?"

Koukakala is idle.
Cat is idle.

Temi states, "Correct, the container currently doesn't show up at all"

StormyBoi states, "The shop shelves seem great"

Deedee nods.

Salem claims, "You can just put the display as the top item in the shelf."

StormyBoi claims, "Can I bring up a small thing that I'm not certain is intended or not, while we're winding down"

Temi claims, "Easier to put a sign at the top of the container than reorganizing the entire room though"

Temi nods at StormyBoi.

StormyBoi states, "Are new joiners of a guild supposed to automatically be hidden, because I admit it bamboozles me"

Deedee says, "Well, if you put it in the shelf, then when you add things they'll show up above it"

Deedee says, "So better to keep the sign outside, above the shelf"

Temi finishes abruptly to Deedee, "Get sign shelf, put sign shelf - on top of it again"

StormyBoi claims, "I thought you had to opt to be private, but now it seems to work the opposite, you have to opt to be public"

Temi claims, "I think that's a not-intended, but I believe it's been reported"

Deedee says, "I've not noticed. But GLs still aren't able to see the public guildlist for their guild"

Salem claims, "Ugh. I can take a look for it, but that will take me for forever to find."

Deedee states, "Also, we need a way to view what roles guildmembers currently hold"

StormyBoi says, "Ah ok, just checked. I rely heavily on guildlist so i was heckin startled when someone said they were in a guild"

Ghed claims to Deedee, "There's a trick"

Deedee says to Ghed, "There was a trick"

Deedee says, "It's broken now"

Salem wonders, "You can do 'seek public list' as a Gl, no?"

Ghed states to Deedee, "Oh noooooooo"

Deedee claims, "Ohhh"

Deedee states, "Seek works"

Deedee claims, "Wow that's"

Deedee claims, "Obscure"

Deedee says, "The other thing we're missing"

Deedee says, "Is a way to view what role a member has"

Trajen has reconnected.

Temi questions, "Shall we wrap up for court?"

Kinaed says, "We should :)"

Salem questions, "??"

Ghed exclaims, "For now, yep! lots of stuff to do"

Trajen queries, "Did that show me as knocked off?"

Ghed says, "Nope"

Temi states to Trajen, "You d/ced briefly"

Salem says, "My timezone is making me passout. Thanks for being here guys."

Ghed waves to Salem.

Ghed pontificates to Salem, "Get some rest!"

Temi comforts Salem.

Ghed says to Salem, "We need you in the code mines in the morrow"

Anonymous says, "You've got a big quota to fill"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, have fun everyone :)"

Trajen says, "Appreciate you Salem. Hope you're feeling well"

Deedee waves.

Kinaed trails off, "Retransing in 3..."

Kinaed claims, "2.."

Salem states, "I will after some Zs."

Kinaed states, "1.."