Log of OOC Meeting 2023-01-28

[Deedee]

Ghed queries, "Before we begin, folks, here's a reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Today's Agenda is:
   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon.

Finally, who wants to scribe for today?"

Edison claims, "Wheeeeee :O"

Deedee raises hand.

DARKSIDE claims, "I have a topiiic"

Ghed nods at Deedee.

Temi has transferred Sue.  [OOC]

Ghed states to Deedee, "Right yo"

Temi gives a beady-eyed cloth ragdoll dressed up in a heavy gray cloak to Sue.

plague states, "I have a topic as well"

Ghed has awarded you 2> QPs: scribe


Ghed claims to DARKSIDE, "I got you"

plague says, "Nothing scary dw"

Ghed claims to plague, "I got you"

Ghed says, "Okay, time to start this week's Staff Update."

DARKSIDE sits down and rests.

Edison states, "I got something too about combat :O"

Ghed claims, "This has been a tough week, for several reasons for staff. We didn't get a lot of stuff done because there was so much to do, including a policy case. But we got through. I had some fun teasing the reeves with the Low-Lawfulness thugs, and I did some shenanigans with the Brotherhood."

DARKSIDE nods.

Deedee asks, "How are things for our southside neighbors?"

Cal pontificates, "Hey Faver!"

Sue states, "I'm a bit late but I had a topic too whoops"

Temi has transferred Jiraiya.  [OOC]

Bimbly stops using a beady-eyed cloth ragdoll dressed up in a heavy gray cloak.

Bimbly gets a small beard comb carved of bone from a bathing kit made of fine white linen.

Bimbly holds a small beard comb carved of bone in his hand.

A comb is drawn carefully over Bimbly's facial hair, smoothing and tidying it.

Temi gives a beady-eyed cloth ragdoll dressed up in a heavy gray cloak to Jiraiya.
Bimbly stops using a small beard comb carved of bone.

Bimbly puts a small beard comb carved of bone in a bathing kit made of fine white linen.

Temi has created a beady-eyed cloth ragdoll dressed up in a heavy gray cloak[5].

Ghed claims, "Things appear to be alright for Southside"

Ghed nods at Sue.

Ghed asks of Temi, "What about you?"

Temi claims, "I have been continuing to focus primarily on the Borderlands plot.  Other than that, some bits of recommends and requests and typos and such when I can."

Ghed says, "You've been giving a hand in non-staff-plot plots"

Temi nods at Ghed.

Temi claims, "True true"

Ghed says, "As in a BIG hand"

Temi claims, "So not a whole lot new to report, though do feel free to get involved in the plot or reach out if you want to do something else."

Ghed says, "I've been a bit low energy so Temi has been crucial"

Deedee muses to Ghed, "Are you okay?"

Ghed says to Deedee, "Staffing is tough, sometimes I need to step back and take a day off"

Deedee nods.

plague says, "Sandwiches are for everyone."

Ghed nods.

Yinadele claims, "Thank you for your patience, Temi! Getting ducks in the right order can be a little bit fussy."

Tomato claims, "Also didn't you just have finals man, take it easy"

Temi grins at Yinadele.

Temi declaims, "I know it's how these things go!"

Ghed claims, "Thanks"

Bimbly claims, "Everybody deserves to step back and rest. Bask in their victories. Revel in their glories. Hear the lamentations of the - oh, wait."

Ghed claims, "Leta has been very busy (and is right now) but she's also been doing what she can to help out"

Sue says, "I will help Ghed with more memes"

Temi states, "I bet that will help."

Temi nods at Sue.

Ghed claims, "As for code, this week we got the fixed mage cap deployed, same as an improvement of eavesdrop at long last"

RamblingSeert raises a hand. "I can help with the memes too."

Ghed nods at RamblingSeert.

Deedee asks, "Does that apply to both listening to places, and listening between rooms?"

Ghed states, "And other magic fixes too"

Ghed claims to Deedee, "I Do Not Know"

Ghed grins.

Deedee claims, "Okie dokie."

Ghed says, "And that's all from us this week"

Nameless claims, "Does that mean that people don't get spidey sense and automatically know if im there when i eavesdrop while uh... you know."

Ghed says to Nameless, "Perhaps"

Ghed asks, "Alright people, let's move on to Player Heartbeat: how has the week been for y'all?"

Rafferty claims, "I've been having fun."

Deedee states, "Been kinda quiet for me"

Pauline says, "Good :D"

Deedee states, "Haven't had as much time to get out there though."

Yinadele declaims, "Busy!"

Trogdor claims, "Been a while since a burnination happened, been getting kinda itchy"

RamblingSeert states, "Slow. Honestly, I've been focusing elsewhere for a bit. Partially because I wanted to catch up on other games. partially so I don't burn out. I'm slowly formulating a plan for my character though."

Jackassaurus trails off, "Oh you know... never a dull moment "

Deedee questions, "Volunteering, Troggy?"

Bimbly states, "I remembered to recommend people this week! Hooray!! I had a bunch of very cool and fun scenes, especially with some of the new characters running around on grid this week. Progress is picking up on the Bimble Quest, too, so that is exciting. I am dreading the approaching necessity of reading help plot again and wrapping my head around it."

Ikeala muses, "Is like not in the last week 'a while?'"

Sue says, "I sent all of southside to jail"

Tomato trails off, "I've been a bit busy irl this week but stealing snippets of RP here and there... very grateful for the people who have sat down with me for a chat"

plague states, "IRL is a bit stressful but game is good despite the fact my activity has been a little low"

Neo claims, "Ive been a little busy here and there but I've had a fun week"

Temi says, "RL does that at times."

Temi nods.

Neo says, "Yep yep, but the games been pretty alive recently"

Cal says, "Was fun <redacted>"

Temi grins at Cal.

Temi exclaims to Cal, "That's always the best!"

Deedee prods Ghed gently with a twig.

Bimbly prods Ghed gently with a standard-issue Hillish caber fit for Hillish caber-tossing.

Yinadele exclaims to Bimbly, "If you want some help and walkthrough, let me know!"

Ghed states, "Back, sorry about that"

Ghed states, "I hear it's been terribly frenetic for some"

Bimbly says, "Fun chaos."

Ghed claims, "I'm glad that you've nearly all been at least a little busy"

Ghed questions, "Alright, is there anything bothering anyone about TI that can be shared here and now?"

Edison claims, "Foot injuries are the worst :("

Pauline says, "Ouch"

Ghed says, "They really suck"

Jiraiya nods to Edison 

Edison claims, "My toe"

DARKSIDE wonders, "Quit kicking pages?"

Jiraiya wonders, "It'd be nice if minor foot injuries were a bit more reasonable?"

Tomato states, "My work isn't slow enough for me to play during work hours >:V"

Temi declares to Tomato, "How indecent of it!"

Nameless says, "If your foot hurts, just fly."

Edison states, "Can we look at reducing the penalities to a little, I think it's a bit overtuned "

Deedee claims, "It's funny how much they drain, even treated and healed within a day"

Pauline claims, "Yeah"

Nameless has the best solutions.

Bimbly states, "I cannot tell yuo how many hunting trips I have had to cut short because a badger gave me a small bruise on my toes."

Bimbly states, "I just sit down right there and heal it."

Temi claims, "We can put it on the list to take a look at."

Jiraiya says, "Yah I've considered wearing plate armour on my feet to hunt badgers."

Edison says, "Much appreciated"

plague claims, "I do the same thing when my dog runs over my foot at home tbh"

Jackassaurus claims, "You know I have to agree that a scratch should not take 45 Hp "

Tomato claims, "Foot/leg injuries are pretty op lmao"

plague states, "Funnily enough they have a cameo in my topic"

Temi says, "No promises on adjusting it or how quickly, but we can for sure discuss"

Deedee nods.

Deedee claims, "Meanwhile, get horses, peasants."

Ghed claims, "I admit I've always kinda hated foot injuries"

Ghed says, "Alrighty, let's move on then"

Ghed says, "Alright, time to move on to Player Topics."

Ghed pontificates to DARKSIDE, "You're next. The others please start pre-writing!"

I'd like to propose a command for slipping paper under doors. Locked door? No worries: you can 'slide paper east' under that locked door to leave a private message for whoever has the key. Heck, it doesn't need to be locked at all. Just slip that little note under your target's door while they're in a meeting and then scram. 'A piece of paper is slipped under the west door' echoes in the room and the paper appears. Nothing crazy, just another small mechanism for fostering RP like... advertising your shop wares, or reeve recruitment flyers, or delivering love letters! Never for anything nefarious, of course. [DARKSIDE]

Deedee says, "We already have that."

Ghed nods.

Yinadele exclaims, "That exists!"

DARKSIDE asks, "We do?"

Ghed says, "That already exists I think"

Deedee states, "See help slip"

Ghed says, "Help slip"

Tomato claims, "Slip exists and does just that, but it only works with paper items if the door is closed"

Ghed fingerguns Deedee

Temi grins.

Tomato states, "If codedly its a big item it won't work if the door is closed"

Deedee grins at Ghed.

Ghed claims, "It does not work with mail because mail is a mail-type item, and not a paper-type item"

Temi states, "Always nice when we can solve a request with no work."

Deedee grins at Temi.

DARKSIDE trails off, "I think I suggested it a long-long-long-long time ago..."

Ghed nodsnodsnods

Tomato states, "Maybe consider adjusting all mail and maps to be considered 'paper' for the slip command"

DARKSIDE declares, "Hahaha, okay. I'll read the helpfile. Thank you!"

Ghed claims, "I think 'map' is a type of paper, or rather 'paper' is a type of map"

Bimbly exclaims, "The latter!"

plague states, "Or you could have it based on size in general, so you can put tiny knives through there. we love tiny knives"

Ghed states, "But I remember mail being difficult to adapt to slip"

Ikeala claims, "If you need something bigger delivered to someone behind a locked door, send me a letter. I'm sure I can work out a delivery price."

Ghed chuckles and nods at Ike

Tomato claims, "Lol"

Ghed muses to DARKSIDE, "Do you think that solves your topic?"

DARKSIDE claims, "Totes."

Ghed nods.

Ghed pontificates to plague, "You're next!"

plague claims, "Okay, sorry about the lead-up to the actual q, I think the context is worth"

plague says, "From what I've seen, the presence of NPC retainers can afford a PC exceptional defensive power against PC assaults. While this is the intention of the feature, I feel like the presence of NPC guards can be overpowering in an environment where failure for a crimin' PC can mean death or social suicide - and failure can be as simple as taking a leg injury at a bad time. Given that this means it's very difficult to hit targets for robberies, assaults, etc. alone unless they're exceptionally vulnerable, this can make it very difficult for non-ESTABLISHMENT PCs to make 'offensive' waves against established characters except through plots, intrigue, and getting one person alone in a dark room without anybody noticing and shanking them to death as you pour lethal poison down their throat. Or, you know, ganking them, which I feel like maybe nobody wants to do? We see some evidence of this in that there have been very few genuinely hostile interactions of any overt, direct kind for some time - the risk is almost always far, far higher than the reward, and while I think that's good, I think the balance is a little too far against the aggressor.

I think I have a clever way to shift the scales a little.

How do staff and players feel about the idea of loosening the policy and code about retainers being parts of guilds and being passive defenders *specifically* for Sanctum and Brotherhood members, allowing them to recruit (more expensive?) mooks who can fight other people's NPCs (be they static guards or bodyguards) and who are willing to keep PCs tied up in combat as their criminal/heretic/mage pals get away? I don't think this solves the problem, but it might help empower the counter-culture powers to do their thing - and also offer Reeve and Order enforcers some NPCs to punish in lieu of proper, successful PVP."

plague muses, "Tl dr - npcs strong, let crimers hire mooks to fight npcs and help them get away from pvp?"

Tomato says, "Being protected by NPCs codedly does force you to be unable to attack. (or if its used by a player to protect you also)"

Nameless says, "There are ways to cheese that"

Nameless says, "Which are very much used frequently"

Yinadele states to Tomato, "But, that's still a 'defender wins'."

Ghed claims, "Hmmm"

Tomato questions, "If you only have a single guy trying to backstab a person with 5 guards, why do you think you'll win?"

Ghed claims, "I'm not sure I want to enter an arms race of mobs"

Bimbly queries, "With consideration that according to help retainers you are not permitted to attack around bodyguard NPCs, per policy, how do these minion mooks interact with that policy, in this proposal, Plague?"

Yinadele says, "Even engaging is a pretty huge risk and play of the hand that can get you dogpiled/delayed."

Ghed says, "I'd rather deprive everyone of mobs except gentry = 1 nobles = 2"

Deedee says, "Retainers can be members of a guild, there's nothing coded about that. Just generally only GLs are permitted to do so by policy. GLs can give permission for others to use guild-NPCs though"

Temi states, "Hrm.  It was definitely a conscious choice to not have NPCs be offensive"

Rafferty begins to descend.

Rafferty leaves down.

Tomato states, "I think we have a cap on how many HUMAN retainers one can have by policy--only nobles can really have a lot of guards"

Ghed nods at Temi.

Brando nods at Temi

Nameless states, "The fact that all retainers will snitch on mage shenanigans doesnt help for mages"
Temi nods at Tomato.

Bimbly trails off to Ghed, "Considering nobles can theoretically have ten human retainers per the helpfiles, uhh..."

Ghed claims, "Pretty sure only retainers can fight other mobs"

Ghed says to Bimbly, "Yeah that's meant to represent pets and like ladies-in-waiting but it usually is applied to pure guards"

Deedee questions, "I think it's been changed so that retainers can fight back when they're directly attacked?"

Ghed states, "Pretty sure Eurus updated that"

Nameless says, "Retainers can fight other mobs atm"

Edison claims, "I'd pay good money to see a 10 vs 10 guard fight"

Bimbly states, "They can and do, I saw that happen."

Tomato wonders, "Can we consider changing it to only x amount of guards?"

Nameless says, "I dont think they'r ecapabl3e of attacking a PC"

Ikeala says, "Retainers can't snitch if they can't talk. Just saying."

Bimbly claims, "You can't tell them to attack anyone else, but they will respond if attacked"

Nameless claims, "They'll only use 'defend' actions against npc"

Ghed states, "I mean non-retainer npcs typically don't attack other non-retainer npcs"

Nameless claims, "Err agains pc i mean"

Deedee nods at Bimbly.

plague says, "For what it's worth I've also heard of people taking advantage of retainers for offensive uses even if they're not mechanically attacking themselves, but admittedly @tomato, it's more that a criminal should have buddies to crime with generally"

Ghed asks of Temi, "Has anyone ever mowed through many guards and beaten the target?"

Deedee states, "I've seen it happen"

plague claims, "I think if you sent Edison up against a steel plate guard NPC when he was breaking into a house he would have to abandon the robbery"

Ghed says, "I remember a certain Daravi witch assaulting Reeve HQ solo and killing everyone"

Pauline claims, "I know of one who managed to attack a player when their guard had used it's round in combat"

Temi states, "I'm pretty sure it has, yeah"

Ghed muses to Pauline, "Yeah? Wanna tell me in a tell?"

Tomato claims, "I do agree that crims currently have a numbers disadvantage for guards, I would be pro-guard cap but I still feel that nobles have guards for a reason"

plague says, "Like yes you shouldn't win if the other guy has 5 dudes, but that's kind of the point I'm making, you do not have options if the other guy has 5 dudes"

Nameless claims, "Large retainer groups are also part of the 'meta' in how the order/reeves maintain power despite historically having low membership"

Ikeala claims, "The person in question might not have actually had the guard defending them. It isn't automatic you have to use the protect command."

Temi claims, "It is thematic that these people should be hard to take."

Deedee claims, "There's always options."

Nameless claims, "I will say this though"

Nameless claims, "There are ways around retainres"

Tomato states, "Poison, befriending, blackmail, treatchery"

Deedee nods.

Nameless claims, "Please do not think that because you have 5 guys following you, that you are invincible"

Ghed wonders to plague, "You mean to say it's unfeasible to bring 3-4 dudes of your own?"

plague claims, "It is in fact unfeasible to bring 3-4 dudes of your own, otherwise we would see it happening."

Pauline covers her dolls ears

Tomato claims, "3-4 dudes vs 5 guards and 1 pc will still lose"

plague claims, "We do not."

Cal states, "Given sufficient time most ne'erdowells tend to actually win I feel like"

Cal states, "The battle if not the war"

Ghed states to Tomato, "I don't think that's the case, tough guards aren't all that tough"

Deedee says, "Guards are actually pretty weak compared to most combat-oriented PCs. They do take a while to take down though."

Ghed states, "But I've never tried it"

Nameless claims, "A combat PC (as in an actual focused combat skilled PC) will absolutely annihilate any retainer. The only issue is that while they will annihilate any retainer, it costs them mv to do so"

Tomato claims, "I do think that subterfuge needs to be used against nobles and those with enough money to actually KEEP guards around, though, to be fair"

Ghed states to Nameless, "A maxed fighter can kill any guard unless the gear disparity is absolute"

Tomato says, "Poison is hard to use currently, so perhaps it might be prudent to consider how one might non-consensually use poison on someone"

Ghed says to plague, "So to save time as we're going off in a tangent, I'll bring it up to staff"

Nameless claims, "Honestly i think i could knock down a plate clad damascus wielding guard with an average quality weapon and no armor without much difficulty"

Bimbly says, "Freemen can't get 3-4 dudes by policy anyway, and as far as I know, mage retainers are still subject to retainer policy.

Mostly, by the time you've chewed through the guards, you're in no shape to actually fight your target.

But this topic isn't just about combat PvP; it's also about stealing items or other antagonistic actions that simply can't happen because you'll get clobbered immediately."

Trogdor is idle.

Deedee states, "I've been hoping for reverse-pickpocket for poisoning needs."

Ghed claims to Deedee, "We're aware yes =)"

Ikeala claims, "I think one thing is that it's an arms race with money because retainers cost silver and there's no way for groups to pull some with say loyalty."

Tomato states, "I thought reverse-pickpocket was on the list of 'to be done'"

Ghed nods.

Sue is idle.

Temi states, "It is, yes, though no promises on timing"

Tomato says, "I do agree, lots of dudes is difficult and most crims are not combat-oriented"

Tomato says, "But I might also suggest social power"

Bimbly claims, "And, yeah, you'd think, say, the Sapiente could call up a handful of Goons to help him - whether that's to burgle a place, to carry loot, to help stab a guy, or even just to run a three-man con on somebody."

Nameless trails off, "I have little experience with actual steal code because if I want something that someone is carrying, I tend to just hit them on the head and take it... probably because theft is a guildskill among other things"

Sue is no longer idle.
Sue has returned from AFK.

Yinadele says, "If you're codedly in the Sanctum/Brotherhood, you are hobbled from social power."

Nameless wonders, "However what if npcs counted towards how crowded a room is for purposes of steal?"

Tomato claims, "I gambitted out a GL as the Tenebrae, openly, its possible"

Yinadele claims, "Just, out the gate. Not impossibly so, but."

Nameless says, "Cuz i know they get bonuses to steal if the room is 'crowded'"

Yinadele states, "Just noting that currently."

Tomato claims, "I was also well-liked and made several backroom deals, openly, as the tenebrae"

Nameless asks, "Well yinadele that just tells me that I need to secure a seat on the council and get social power mmhmm?"

Tomato states, "Yeah man, whisper temptations in people's ears"

Nameless says, "Bro"

Nameless claims, "That is like"

Nameless says, "Every other day for me"

Ghed snicker

Tomato says, "A rockin set of tits does help, I have found. Alas this character is a dude"

Deedee says, "As an aside, the brotherhood isn't restricted to freemen. Nobles and gentry can join too."

plague says, "A staff discussion about it with presumably far more perfect information sounds great, I just brought it up because I thought about it"

Bimbly claims, "Please remember that this topic is also about newer characters having better, but not necessarily even odds in dealing with established characters. Not evening the playing field, but smoothing out the incline some."

Pauline queries, "Couldn't you technically run a plot and request rpa to attack someone?"

Nameless trails off, "I mean its not code restricted to freemen buuuuutttt....."

Tomato claims, "Staff haven't allowed that, though they might allow RPA poisoning or RPA to get into house for an ambush"

Ghed nods at Bimbly.

Jackassaurus states, "I'm all for conflict "

Nameless says, "Its pretty heavily anti-gentry and anti-noble"

trogdor is no longer idle.

Brando nods at pauline

Trogdor has returned from AFK.

plague finishes abruptly, "Re all the suggestions - I agree that people have plenty of other methods, but it's kind of the point that doing anything of the sort I described is exceptionally difficult in comparison"

Ghed nods.

Bimbly says, "A noble in the Brotherhood would be an exception to the rule, I think."

plague claims, "I like those other methods and that this is a game where those methods are emphasized, I personally prefer that kind of antagonism in my vidjas"

Ghed claims, "I'll write it down, I admit it's perhaps more than just themely difficult"

Tomato states, "I agree. I do think it won't hurt to have a guard cap"

plague states, "I just think the balance is a bit too far in favor and that a lack of these occurrences is proof"

Jackassaurus queries, "But if you want to target someone with 5 dudes... maybe not target them?"

plague claims, "A story that doesn't happen is of zero value."

Nameless states, "Maybe they need to be targeted for being a butthead"

Bimbly claims, "For what it's worth, the most bodyguards I have seen is three."

Tomato says, "I think that 10 guards for a noble IS a lot if someone fills all 10 slots with guards"

Jackassaurus wonders, "...I didn't say don't target them directly, I mean look at others ways to target them?"

Nameless trails off, "Ahhhhhh, i remember that one countess... always had 5 kitted guards with her at all times"

Nameless claims, "The spam as she moved around was real"

Bimbly declaims, "Like, ever. For anyone, so far. So I don't think a cap of 1 or 2 would change how people play or require a lot of players to request refunds.

And nobody does 10 guards because then you can't have a horse!"

Deedee states, "Another aside- freemen are limited to 2 human NPCs, but there are combat-capable animals. Can have up to 10."

Cal claims, "I mean I am pretty sure Amir has 10"

Yinadele says, "I remember a non noble example, always had 3 guards"

Yinadele claims, "It was really funny"

Tomato states, "Amir is the literal King, his farts are worth more than any of us"

Ikeala ponders.

plague claims, "'Do something else' isn't really a solution that makes the things I'm describing happen more"

Brando states, "FYI king leonidas of Sparta had 300 personal bodyguards ok ... for the sake of history. "

Tomato states, "I also feel like the 'new player vs established character' dichotomy is not that wide, as someone who has started over several times"

Jackassaurus muses, "Omg... really? You couldn't target someone close to them who doesn't have 5 guards?"

Ghed says, "Amor has infinite retainers"

Ghed states, "Amir"

Tomato says, "Freemen are ALWAYS going to have a money issue vs any higher class"

Deedee claims, "Not always."

Ghed claims, "Okay okay"

Bimbly claims, "Amir's limit on retainers is not money, it is 'how long does it take for his other retainers to get there', I'd say."

Ghed claims, "Let's just move on for now"

Tomato says, "Excepting people who only log in to claim their assets for a year, yes"

Ghed nods at Bimbly.

Deedee nods.

plague pontificates, "I'm not even talking about me specifically Jackassaurus, it's just that your response to my suggestion here is 'well obviously don't do the thing'. Nobody is doing the thing! That's a problem imo"

Deedee states, "Merchant freemen with a niche can be stinkin rich."

DARKSIDE nods.

Jackassaurus states, "I said do it different "

Jackassaurus claims, "Not don't do it "

Tomato says, "That's more from IC action and isn't directly the same as pure assets"

Ghed states, "Alright"

Brando nods at Deedee

Ghed claims, "We heard each other"

Ghed states, "I think Jae has a reasonable point to study"

Ghed says, "That's it"

Tomato says, "New characters doing direct IC action requires them to 'establish' themselves"

plague says, "I understand, ty. i appreciate the clarification"

Temi nods.

Ghed says to Sue, "Your topic please"

Temi says, "We can definitely discuss it, but we have other things for now."

Sue states, "So after totally, legitimately, legally (for real) arresting the entirety of southside's NPC quota, I've a few things to say about combat. Primarily that minor damage is extremely punishing, and I don't know if this is intended? These dark cloaks, even after Ghed souped them up and sent super-assassins after me, at most would deal six damage to a limb before combat ended. Or I'd have like 2 damage to my hands, 2 damage to my feet - by the end of it, nothing would be double digits, but they'd all be bleeding and hobbling me, and require tons of bandages to dress. I assume, of course, that 2 damage to my arms out of a health pool of like... almost 400 is like a light bruise or papercut, especially under steel plate. So the fact I have to waste so many bandages, soak myself in blood and gore, and otherwise, is just sort of weird. These are 'no treatment needed' injuries so they're very mechanically intense and then when I go to the Madison they just disappear magically, which is very weird. I feel like limbs should have a threshold before they start to bleed or hobble you, and it shouldn't be like 6 damage."

Sue says, "Tl;dr why game say i have 3 damage to feet but it acts like im bleeding a river"

Neo is idle.

Tomato questions, "You were wearing armor?"

Sue claims, "Ye"

Bimbly claims, "Plate."

Tomato says, "Your armor took a portion of the damage from the attack"

Tomato claims, "It'll be damaged now, it took the numbers for you"

Neo is no longer idle.
Neo has returned from AFK.

Nameless states, "I made a note about this but im fairly sure their weapons are all substandard damag"

Nameless states, "Which is why they were so low"

Tomato says, "Once it took a certain amount of damage, the attacks were leaking through to you"

Tomato says, "As it was damaged"

Sue states, "Well yes but i feel like i have a slight bruise i can't eat because i'm exsanguinating oh god is a bit of a stretch"

Tomato claims, "You just can't eat when you're bleeding. At least one attack got through to make you bleed."

Deedee claims, "I fell off my bike on the ice early this week. I'm still sore."

Tomato claims, "That was added to keep you from regaining hella MV by spam eating without having wounds tended"

Brando claims, "There is some code that allows one to see all the damage any item you possess has, if i recall correctly."

Ghed says, "I've been slowly beefing them up, but I don't want them to be too punishing for non-elite-combat reeves"

Tomato claims, "So, working as intended, you are wearing the best armor"

Ghed says, "Given they now attack reeves in a small random chance of cases"

Tomato claims, "Appraise shows damage, I believe"

Bimbly states, "Her complaint is not that she is taking very little damage, but instead that very small amounts of damage cause bleeding wounds, which prevent eating and drinking, which prevents movement. All of the attacks from certain kinds of weapons cause bleeding.

The complaint primarily, Tommomo, is that injuries below a certain percentage of your total health pool probably shouldn't stop eating and drinking."

Ghed nods.

Bimbly states, "You're looking for the state commands. inv state, etc."

Tomato states, "The enemies broke her plate mail and now are stabbing her"

Edison says, "Yeah, that sorta carries on what I was talking about with feet injury"

Jiraiya nods to Bimbly.

Ghed says, "She's Neo in that scene of the many Agent Smiths"

Tomato says, "It ouchie, game tries to block eating because people have abused it"

Ghed has transferred Flower.  [OOC]

DARKSIDE states, "But the stab is only a scratch"

Temi claims, "We did put the feet injuries on the list already, might want to look at other minor things"

Ghed claims, "You know the one"

Bimbly claims, "No, they use maces, which cause bleeding wounds even with new armor. For reference, she was in armor in Excellent condition."

Temi gives a beady-eyed cloth ragdoll dressed up in a heavy gray cloak to Flower.

Nameless claims, "Yes but if you don't do that, then you have a superman mode hulksmashing dozens of npcs in a row"

Tomato states, "Oh, that armor got CRUNCHED in and is stabbing you then"

Ghed nods at Nameless.

Sue states, "Yeah, that, I don't think I should be bleeding from a 2 damage injury. I should be bleeding from a 30 damage injury. Bleeding should come when you hit a certain damage threshhold rather than just on immediately."

Neo says, "No im Neo"

Tomato says, "Bleeding is based on the type of damage done to you, not HP amount"

Deedee nods.

Ikeala says, "I mean you can bleed from a papercut IRL"

Deedee nods.

Nameless claims, "Now me personally, I'll typically do all the fighting at once and then heal up after and just not bother with stopping until wounds are about to go over the threshold to need treatment"

Bimbly claims, "Yes, that is what is happening. That is fine! That is not the complaint! The complaint is that wounds less than 1 percent of your total health pool are as inhibitive as wounds more than 50 percent of it."

Jiraiya claims, "Yah papercuts dont make me unable to eat though. at least not irl"

Tomato says, "Slash and stab usually cause bleeding. Mace literally crumpled in your metal armor so its poking you, causing bleeding"

Ghed nods at Jiraiya.

Jackassaurus claims, "Two minor scratches in armored from for a bobcat kills us all"

Bimbly says, "I have been bled by a *turkey* and had to stop and bandage. For a one-hit-point scratch."

Tomato says, "I don't think there's a way for code to differentiate between 'small' bleeding wounds and non small bleeding wounds. You just need to bandage them"

Nameless claims, "Yes... it's there so that you have to have some downtime or punishment for combat. even if you win. or so i am assuming just based on how the stuffs designed"

Nameless claims, "My biggest complaint is"

Nameless claims, "Riding a horse erases bandages"

Temi claims, "The big secret of TI is that all players are horribly squeamish and the little bit of blood completely puts them off."

Temi nods.

Ghed nods.

Deedee claims, "Depends on the horse"

Yinadele trails off, "Hemophilia strikes again..."

Ghed claims, "I haven't looked at commented code but much of this is a design choice"

Yinadele states, "Not hemophobia."

Tomato claims, "This is not a hack and slash game so there are systems in place to keep players from treating it like one"

Bimbly claims, "I do, Tommaso; percentage of health is already a considered factor. I don't think injuries should prevent you from eating or drinking if you are above 90 or 95 percent of your maximum HP."

Ghed says, "Perhaps it was implemented to slow down fighters"

Yinadele says, "Took a papercut, all my blood came out"

Sue trails off, "It also soaks me in blood and gore when I bandage my 2 damage papercut..."

Yinadele states, "Oops"

Nameless claims, "It probably was ghed"

Sue trails off, "I've had to bathe so many times..."

Ghed states, "So as, for example, to prevent beefed up magmes from wiping out all the fauna in the game in 1 hour"

Ghed claims, "*mages"

Deedee says, "You don't have to bathe :)"

Nameless says, "Cough"

Nameless states, "Beefed up mages? i dont know what you're talking about."

Bimbly claims, "I am not saying that you should be able to eat and drink while wounded no matter what; just that superficial injuries are calculable and should be more manageable to deal with."

Ghed snicker

Ghed nods at Bimbly.

Deedee claims, "There are also alternatives to eating and drinking"

Flower wears B&G proudly.

Deedee asks, "Do drugs, mmmmkay?"

DARKSIDE states, "Sounds like a rasonable sugggestion to me, Bimbles, Sue."

Tomato states, "Possibly something that could be code implemented, but it is working to keep people from chowin down on 5 ration bars while pretending they aren't bleeding to death"

Trogdor claims, "Drugs are bad, mmmkay"

Bimbly says, "I would be greatly convenienced if I didn't have to stop and bandage after every turkey. I don't mind stopping after every wolf and bobcat."

Pauline wonders, "Makes me think, what if bloody wounds would leave a temorary trail behind? Or on the track list?"

Nameless claims, "Drugs are useful or so i am told"

Nameless says, "Well then just dont bimbly"

Tomato queries, "Wear armor when you hunt?"

Bimbly claims, "I do."

Trogdor says, "Turkeys are mean, man"

Bimbly says, "Some animals do not care."

Tomato states, "Even leeather armor should turn the bites/scratches into a bruise"

Yinadele states, "It does not."

Bimbly says, "I have killed every wild animal on grid, in plate armor, at least once. It does not."

Deedee claims, "Turkeys can mess you up, IRL."

Trogdor declares, "They sound silly, but they are vicious!"

Ghed says, "Drugs are fabulous if used timely"

Jiraiya claims, "I also feel dumb wearing plate to fight badgers"

Nameless claims, "A tactical mid-combat pause to sniff some cocaine does wonders"

Nameless states, "Just saying"

Trogdor states, "Badgers don't give a shit"

Tomato muses, "It DID previously? I had a literal bear maul me and only got bruised, in leather, on an old character"

Bimbly states, "Some animals ignore it."

Ghed says, "Sometime in the future I will disable attacking aerial animals with melee, same as badgers etc"

Deedee states, "I agree it doesn't feel themely to deck out in full plate to lop some arrows at critters."

Bimbly says, "Bears don't. Bobcats and wolves do."

Jackassaurus says, "I just want minor scratches to not take 35+ Hp... maybe like 10... but those particular wound percentages could use a little adjusting at the lower levels i feel like."

Ghed states, "But I've so many other priorities"

Bimbly claims, "Oh, Ghed, that's already in. A falcon kicked my ass, aha."

Brando claims, "Hands up anybody who removes their characters armor befor making them sleep eh."

Ghed says to Bimbly, "Rad"

Ghed raises hand

Nameless claims, "Sleeping, pfft."

Sue claims, "That's all though I just felt bleeding and hobbling from a 6 damage bruise was a bit sussy"

Nameless claims, "Moment of respites says helo"

Sue says, "Alas i cannot 1v1 the entire dark cloak pool"

Tomato states, "To be fair, you aren't supposed to"

Deedee nods.

Nameless states, "Its probably there entirely so you cant"

Brando me golf claps for Ghed

Tomato says, "It does seem silly, and I am supportive of adjusting it, just explaining why the systems work as they do"

Ghed says, "Those dark cloaks hadn't been touched for years"

Sue states, "I sure touched them"

Ghed says, "Their code was a bit of a mess, they were set to be 200, not 30"

Sue states, "I'll do it again"

Deedee wonders, "200 years old?"

Ghed says, "200 mobs harassing everyone"

Nameless claims, "Well"

Deedee states, "Ahh."

Jackassaurus states, "My old alt killed like 50 of thrm"

Neo says, "I will say if they didn't give injuries there would be very little stopping someone from just mercing all the npcs, which is something that isn't really theme appropriate- i understand the happy medium of making them "

Yinadele claims, "That's so good"

Nameless states, "I propose we go back to the old 200 just to see it"

Neo says, "Low damage but capable of injury"

Yinadele claims, "200 dark cloaks at lithmore ranch"

Ghed claims to Jackassaurus, "Those were weaker back then"

Jackassaurus states, "I know "

Cal claims, "And it wasn't the Southside NPC ration "

Jackassaurus claims, "Still was fun "

Deedee claims, "200 would be fun when lawlessness is at rock bottom."

Neo states, "You don't want them knocking people out but you do want them to discourage slaughtering them all en masse"

Pauline claims, "And then all these bodies laying around"

Bimbly says, "The suggestion is not that they should not hurt anyone, Neo, the suggestion is that superficial wounds should not block you from eating or drinking. Five or ten percent of maximum HP seems reasonable to me. It means you still have to pause to bandage and heal between fights, but not after every single fight."

Ghed says to Bimbly, "Reasonable, I'll write it down"

Tomato states, "As much as I appreciate the combat orientation, I am still very against anything that makes TI more hack-n-slashy. People very quickly lose sight of the RP ramifications when it becomes totally gamified"

Bimbly claims, "No one is saying rampages without rest and vulnerability should be enabled here."

Ghed nods at Tomato.

Nameless questions, "Im not really understanding why you have to pause to bandage/eat/drink after every fight at all. are you just not wanting to get into the fight without full mv?"

Bimbly says, "When you walk around in plate, you need to eat."

Neo says, "Injuries have other effects as well"

Tomato claims, "That is on purpose as plate is the literal best armor int he game. Get a horse"

Brando nodsat bimbly

Tomato says, "No MV cost for riding a horse"

Deedee nods.

Bimbly exclaims, "Correct! Except, riding your horse explodes your bandages!"

DARKSIDE facepalms.

Deedee says, "Some horses are lighter on bandages than others"

Tomato says, "That sounds like code fuckery tbh lol I've never had that happen"

Nameless claims, "No it happens"

Sue states, "I have"

Nameless claims, "Happens to me all the time"

Sue claims, "Every single time my horse would ruin my bandages"

Tomato claims, "I agree that it does, sounds like a code issue that needs fixed"

Sue states, "Covering my 3 damage bruise"

Sue states, "And i cry"

Bimbly claims, "Sue actually gave some very good data on minor injuries with her rampage."

Flower states, "Irl bandages get mussed by riding."

Nameless says, "I do think a walking horse shouldn't be tearing off bandages. maybe one thats going faster than that sure"

Bimbly says, "She fought ~25 mobs and needed to use over 100 bandages."

Ghed declaims, "I  hope someone has a bandage shop!"

Tomato queries, "You do realize how ridiculous a singular person fighting 25 people 1v1 is, on a like, realistic standpoint?"

Ghed says, "And siad someone subverts law all the time"

Ghed states, "Okay"

Jiraiya says, "Bandages can be made for free. I tried selling them without much luck."

Deedee states, "Can't compete with bind tear"

Ghed wonders, "Did anyone else had a topic?"

Flower states, "Just getting on can be rough on them."

Edison says, "Me me me :O"

Ghed claims to Edison, "Speak up brudah"

Flower shrugs.

Edison states, "So - everytime I a wizard goes nuts or a demon shows up, I gotta shoo people out of the room and I feel bad that they don't get to gawk. I think there should be an eavesdrop style command for watching fights from an adjacent room. It would be handy for things like tournies, melees and jousts, and if it's toggle-able then people who just want to do social RP without getting spammed by combat commands have an option. (Also it would stop me from accidentally hitting the wrong person because I whiffed a target keyword)"

Ghed claims, "Quick"

Deedee agrees.

Brando trails off, "I like having choices ... this is all cost benefit analysis ... which is better to do.. walk in plate and eat ...or have a horse and forego bandages eh"

Ghed claims, "Yeah it's not implemented, ideally you should rpyell to fill the gap"

Ghed says, "It's great to tailor it to what is happening"

Nameless states, "Rpyell eats your combat round though"

Bimbly questions, "Oh, yeah, I like that. Doesn't rpyell count as an emote?"

Nameless states, "Along with emote and rpecho"

Ghed queries, "It does?"

Deedee claims, "I want the 'watch' command to come back."

Nameless claims, "Ayup"

Bimbly says, "Yeah, it's an emote, you can't do that in combat."

Ghed groan

Nameless claims, "All of them eats your combat round"

Edison states, "I think the only thing that does are 'say'"

Ghed states, "And think"

Nameless says, "You can always think"

Ghed says, "Okay, I'll see about writing it down"

Edison claims, "I try not to do that"

Nameless says, "I encourage you to do so"

Bimbly trails off, "You could have a gentleman's agreement with your opponent to rpyell every single attack, but..."

Nameless states, "About aaaaalllllllll your taudry secrets and fears"

Bimbly states, "That's janky."

Temi states, "I think we'd definitely like to have more ability to watch certain things from adjoining rooms, but it wasn't looking like easy code.  Ie plays or masses or stuff from adjoining rooms, in addition to watching combat stuff"

Deedee nods.

Nameless claims, "When ive been shooed away, i just emote as being on the outskirts gawking while still codedly being in the room"

Ghed says, "I mean"

Tomato asks, "Isn't there a watch command for windows?"

Ghed claims, "To be fair"

Nameless claims, "And i get some splash from the fight well, so be it"

Tomato says, "I've never used them, IDK how it works"

plague asks, "So basically it's a code limitation and people have the discretion to be oocly permissive of observers or enforce shooing them out as the situation permits?"

Deedee states, "It used to work with windows and 'watch', but both windows and watch are broken now AFAIK"

Ghed says, "Usually fighting a demon doesn't mean ONE person tossing ONE rpyell is going to kill the day"

Bimbly claims to Temi, "Merchants could string some fancy opera glasses."

Temi grins at Bimbly.

Temi states, "Very fashionable."

Ghed states to Deedee, "Windows aren't broken"

Ikeala claims, "Also you can tell people the story later for more RP scenes."

Temi claims, "But yeah, not easy code."

Sue claims, "KILL DEMON ONLY NO RP YELL"

Sue claims, "ONLY FIGHT"

Jackassaurus says, "If one person is fighting a demon they only get maybe one Rpyell anyway"

Nameless claims, "Attack demon body hits the demon."

plague says, "Attack demon legs goes for the nads"

Deedee states to Ghed, "They no longer function to see what's happening in another room, only for looking through to see who is in another room"

Ikeala says, "Like ... the people who weren't on might like that too."

Nameless says, "Demons dont have nads"

Nameless claims, "I dont think anyway"

Ghed says to Deedee, "Oh right okay"

Tomato claims, "Kick them so hard they grow a pair and then lose them"

Pauline queries, "What about incubi?"

Ghed claims, "Summon one and find out"

Ghed states, "Okay we're at the top of the hour"

Sue claims, "Attack demon body hits the nae nae and dabs on a heretic"

Brando muses, "Demons are not Players ... maybe the staff playing the demon can rpyell ... like a big roar or sumfink?"

Ghed claims, "Time to warp you all away"

Nameless says, "I'll craft them a set of runic mechanical nads and use surgical precision to sew them to the groin, just so you can kick them with your iron feet"

Jackassaurus trails off, "Can I add one more... thing"

Ghed claims to Jackassaurus, "A oneliner please"

plague states, "It was a really good time, ty for hosting even though its been a hard week"

DARKSIDE waves.

plague claims, "We all appreciate you"

Jackassaurus muses, "Sorry... pertaining to the grey cloaks. Can't we give Brotherhood power to deploy them instead of them being auto?"

Ghed states, "They don't control them"

Tomato states, "Not every criminal is brotherhooood"

Ghed claims, "The dark cloaks are opportunistic bastards"

Edison claims, "Grey cloaks are unaffiliated "

DARKSIDE states, "But they wish they were"

Nameless states, "They're cosplayers"

Ghed states, "Even organized crime needs a -little- lawfulness"

Jackassaurus trails off, "Ah... gotcha"

Ghed says, "Please remember to post rumors, cnote discoveries, and recommend each other for meaningful RP =)"

Jackassaurus states, "Never mind then"

Deedee waves.

Ghed nods at Jackassaurus.

Sue states, "If you subvert lawfulness i am sending an assassin to your house btw jsyk they will play polka music and then kill you"

Sue states, "My final word"

Ghed trails off, "Engaging warp drive in 3..."

Trogdor pontificates, "Burninate 'em!"

plague claims, "Support subvert lawfulness"

Ghed trails off, "2..."

Bimbly says, "Woah"

Ghed trails off, "1..."

Nameless says, "Okay go for it sue"

Nameless says, "See how well that works"