Log of OOC Meeting 2017-10-21

[Whisper]

Niamh queries, "Does anyone have a topic to register for later?"

Calanthe says, "A quick one from me."

Rothgar states, "I got a brief one to bring up, but if we start running out of time it can be left to the wayside."

Calanthe states, "Mine will be a one-sentence reminder/request."

Niamh muses, "Got Calanthe and Rothgar. Anyone else?"

Augustus says, "Reminder: Kill all bards"

Daire says, "No! Don't hurt me."

Steven states to Calanthe, "Love the Troubs right now btw. Is nice running into one regularly."

Eirian states, "I have two topics, one for myself and one for someone who can't be here."

Niamh nods at Eirian.

Niamh claims to Eirian, "Got you."

Eirian states, "Thankee."

Calanthe pontificates to Steven, "Thank you very much!"

Nadya claims, "I second the notion of bard-killing."

Micah states, "Troubs are definitely picking up."

Niamh says, "Agenda iiis: Staff Updates, Player Heartbeat, Player Topics."

Niamh asks of Azarial, "Want to start us off for staff updates?"

Daire queries, "Hang on. I also have a topic to add to the list. If thats okay?"

Niamh nods at Daire.

Niamh says to Daire, "Added."

Azarial says, "Testing keepalive, and the input will let me check a datestamp."

Niamh nods.

Niamh asks of Azarial, "Probably your biggest thing this week was finishing asset resources, I think?"

Evrald claims, "Can to add me on for a topic please"

Niamh states to Evrald, "Sure."

Micah claims, "Oh I do have something to bring up now that I think about it too."

Niamh nods at Micah.

Azarial states, "I think so. msot fo the wrinkles appear to be smoothed out wuith it under load"

Azarial says, "There will be some fine tuning, I expect, but that should not be dramatic."


Niamh states, "There was a ton of stuff I tested for you that I'm totally blanking now. x_x Suffice to say the Azarial has been very busy."


Azarial states, "Some grammar, some typos, some crashes, mostly assets"

Niamh nods.


Niamh states, "For my update: Beyond the usual request, typo, recommends stuff, I finished up my chart for testing minimum crafting costs across the board in tradeskills, so that bit of data has been completed and is ready to be worked off of. Next up is checking the costs per weapon and defense skill to see how much silver must be invested by using trainers and food for 1 middling rank."


Niamh gives a tall, multi-layer wedding cake decorated with little toys to Nyna.


Eirian says, "I'm glad you're looking into that."

Niamh nods at Eirian.

Niamh claims to Eirian, "I think it stands to assume things were balanced for a very silver saturated game. That bit has changed by design, so looking into the rest is good."

Calanthe asks, "Will we see the data too or possibly just help player test when all is said and done?"

Rothgar queries, "Question : the weapon/defense silver bit, will that info be released, or is that an under the hood bit?"

Calanthe smiles at Rothgar.

Rothgar laughs.

Niamh claims to Calanthe, "I don't think it would hurt to publicise it, but I'd want to check with Kinaed before giving a definite yay or nay."

Calanthe claims, "Of course! Thank you."

Rothgar gives a thumbs up. "Just sounds interesting. Best of luck!"

Niamh smiles.

Niamh gives a tall, multi-layer wedding cake decorated with little toys to Lorrent.

Steven claims, "Considering how much it may change after tweaks are made, might not really be good."

Steven says, "The after the tweaks numbers might be neat though"

Niamh claims, "Comparisons maybe."

Steven claims, "Yus"

Steven claims, "Might help folks get more acclimated with the new assets feeling too, seeing how the changes are being done to work with it."

Niamh questions, "Any more questions for me and Az on our updates?"

Niamh nods at Steven.

Azarial says, "It jsut takes a while tog et enough data once the ripples from the last change die down. just keep at things as normal."

Niamh asks, "Okay! Player heartbeat. How was RP this week?"


Desna claims, "Rediculous."

Niamh comforts Desna.


Lorrent states, "I have had an amazing amount of great and deep RP."


Nyna says, "Spotty but very dramatic"


Evrald says, "Good ish."

Evrald nods.


Rothgar claims, "Excellent tbh, getting all sorts of RP that I haven't gotten in ages. More of it, too."

Niamh muses to Desna, "Anything we could do to help things?"


Cerise had good scenes.


Sauvaige claims, "Love brow beating nobles as the Seneschal. "


Micah claims, "I have a few mixed feelings on some things but not anything bad."


Steven claims to Lorrent, "Definitely"


Eirian queries to Cerise, "Are you fixed?"

Desna says to Niamh, "I can't answer that without exposing too much IC material. "

Niamh nods at Desna.


Calanthe claims, "I've been enjoying it immensely! I may be falling behind on recommends though."

Cerise claims, "No, I'm not, as far as I know."


Calanthe states, "I can't ever remember who I already recommended."

Eirian states to Cerise, "Aw, bummer."

Micah says, "I have gotten Wonderful Recs on Lelei and it makes me feel very honored."

Calanthe strikes up a conversation with a giant stuffed teddybear.

Niamh highfives Micah.

Eirian exclaims to Cerise, "I hope it gets sorted out soon. Sounds frustrating!"

Steven claims, "I had some fun courtesy of our new Earl Marshal."

Lorrent grins at Steven.

Sauvaige says, "A farin, making fun? Wot."


Niamh slow-motion highfives Steven and Lorrent.


Micah claims, "Well there is that missing pantaloons case underway."

Desna states to Sauvaige, "Silence you! We all know Vavardi are ... fun suckers. :p"

Sauvaige claims, "I don't argue that"

Desna laughs.

Nyna laughs.

Steven claims to Lorrent, "Knights who act Knightly hits my soft and loveable side "


Cerise says OOCly, "Not that frustrating, since Niamh is manually transferring me things."

Desna hugs Lorrent.

Niamh nods at Cerise.


Desna exclaims, "Hurray for knightly knights!"


Eirian thumbs up.

Safir claims, "Knightly knights in pantaloons."


Nyna states, "Any orderite who actually plays the Role instead of undermining it is always a refreshing change"

Niamh wonders to Cerise, "Hopefully it'll be worked out soon. Make sure you're bugnoting every time you notice something odd for you, okay?"

Desna nods in agreement with Nyna.

Pearl nods at Nyna.


Micah says, "I kind of feel weird with some of the RP I've been getting but I'm not used to playing Haughty jerk face."

Steven nods in agreement with Nyna.

Niamh grins at Micah.


Lorrent claims, "Aw. Hope I make fun for other people. That's awesome."

Niamh states to Micah, "That's LORD Haughty Jerk Face."

Niamh has transferred Lyana. [OOC]

Niamh gives a tall, multi-layer wedding cake decorated with little toys to Lyana.

Lorrent says to Micah, "I wanted to meet you and pretend Lorrent didn't know you were a Baron and not Castellan and start ordering you around, but I think the urge has passed."

Steven wonders to Micah, "Might not be bad to talk to staff about it privately to see if its entirely that or not? "


Lyana coos


Cerise claims, "I'm bugnoting everything. And I believe people will pboard me if they feel something is weird."

Calanthe states to Lorrent, "It will come back."

Micah asks, "Mm?"

Niamh nods at Cerise.


Lyana says, "I want to order him around."


Micah states, "Oh, no no it's not bad RP, it's just different. This is the first character I've played like this in a long itme."

Nadya claims, "Day twenty-one, people still think I don't know how to smile."


Lyana says, "Just so he'll get pissy so I can move my authority to not apoogizing"

Steven claims to Lorrent, "Man, Im still reeling from Nimrock not being under a Castellan."


Evrald states, "Ok. Finally got it ready."


Lyana claims, "Nadya I made you smile yesterday damn it"

Lorrent says to Steven, "Truth."


Calanthe says, "Please refrain from noble infighting unless there's a troubadour present."


Niamh laughs.

Lyana giggles.

Steven says to Calanthe, "You need play fodder."


Sauvaige punches Micah


Lyana states, "Nah, we fight but we fight with eligance."


Evrald claims, "Play fodder and rumor fodder."


Desna states, ", points at /calanthe is the trouba in troubadour."


Micah claims, "Every one is confused on his title which is great with some of the Nobility who are like ...Oh my."


Lyana claims, "Damn sauvaige. My honor is not that important."


Lorrent says, "Actually, just to be perfectly clear on my part, Nimrock (now) has been a Barony for some time, yes? So like a retroactive change of history? I just want to make sure I have that right."

pose nods to Calanthe. "Yes. We must know. All the things"

Daire nods to Calanthe. "Yes. We must know. All the things"

Calanthe nods in agreement with Daire.


Niamh says, "When Caitrin was crowned she allowed it, yes."


Micah claims, "It's been a barony since Queen Catrin one of them came of age."


Steven states, "It was apparently told in one of the Caitrin crowning events."

Niamh has transferred Empena. [OOC]

Niamh gives a tall, multi-layer wedding cake decorated with little toys to Empena.

Niamh nods in agreement with Steven.

Lyana says, "Question"


Evrald claims, "Lorrent during the Queen's tour of the duchy's as she was being crowned. She gave it back."

Niamh says to Lyana, "Ask away."


Steven claims, "I missed it. But I remember Vavard being butthurt that she married a stinking Farin"


Evrald says, "There was IC posts about it as it was happening."


Steven states, "So that may be why"


Lorrent says, "Okay, awesome. Then I was just mistaken."


Lyana questions, "Has anyone had time to put the helpfiles we put on our domanes up?"


Micah claims, "So Technically Micah is only the second of his family to govern nimrock. And things are kind of fresh. But I need to get my help domain finished, but that should help for others."

Lorrent states, "(That help vavardi map should be updated)"

Evrald gets a practical, leather belt hung with a functional coin purse from an earthy leather backpack trimmed with fox fur.

Evrald gets a commemorative gold coin featuring Queen Caitrin's profile from a practical, leather belt hung with a functional coin purse.


Evrald says, "This."

Lyana gasps

Niamh states to Lyana, "Temi is out of town for a few days, but when she gets back she'll read over the ones that have been submitted."

Lyana nods.


Steven questions, "Caitrin has only been crowned for maybe 2 years ic now?"


Lyana states, "I know I had to change mine once, but I don't know about any other time."

Steven states, "So he may be the first"


Lyana claims, "Because my domane had nada history"

Niamh states to Lyana, "I'm nowhere near as versed on the details of noble domain histories and such, so we prefer to make sure Temi gives the thumbs up."


Sauvaige still needs to write one for his...


Desna claims, "The heartbeat ran off with us I think."


Micah says, "Yes, but the title was given to his father, and his father died afterwards so, second but just barely."


Lyana giggles


Lyana nods.

Lyana states, "I will take critisisms... that word."

Lorrent says to Desna, "It's just a little erratic. Too much coffee."


Steven claims, "You should look at the eastgale and rosewood domain files. Both are good examples for writing info for yours"

Nyna claims, "Never enough coffee"


Lyana states, "I looked at capua. It helped a bit."

Desna wonders to Lorrent, "You would know, wouldn't you Farin?"


Evrald says, "Warning, my topic is a bit of wall o' text."


Lyana says, "Oh god"


Niamh says, "We have a lot of player topics and one anonymous for the end. Lets get started on 'em."


Micah says, "Mm. I have to do a lot of tie in because Nimrock has a lot of pre-established history too, but uh...yeah, got off track."


Azarial states, "Can;t be worse than the scket manpages"


Niamh declares, "First up, Calanthe!"

Calanthe says, "I've forgotten mine! If there's time and I remember, I'll ask to sneak in at the back."

Niamh nods.


Niamh declares, "Next: Rothgar!"


Rothgar wonders, "Just to touch base briefly, I'd seen earlier in the week some scuttlebutt in the 'guildleader' bit, for the... Manus? Of all people. I think he got pretty derned close to being placed in a gambit, though I can't be one hundred percent sure. This isn't a complaint as much as it is a question : Can any random Joe subvert the Manus? Or, noting the shift in that support, is that a thing that has been removed?"

Lorrent claims to Steven, "They are super detailed and well-done."

Lorrent nods at Rothgar.

Desna states to Rothgar, "I don't think so. You need their name."


Steven says, "Maybe he went inactive or his guildmates subverted"
Lairaza is idle.

Niamh claims to Rothgar, "It's a weird situation with the covert GLs and support/subvert. We're looking into some solutions, one of which is divorcing personal subverting from title subverting."


Azarial says, "I believe there are some changes in the offing, but I would hvae to dig."


Desna wonders, "Didn't Kinaed say that you couldn't subvert Covert leaders without a name?"


Nadya says, "I just find it hilarious that people are just namedropping the rubeus and manus in rumors."

Calanthe muses, "I don't know if it's codified but I've always assumed you should have a real reason to subvert someone. Yes?"


Steven states, "The Manus is a very known thing."

Niamh says to Nadya, "He or she does tend to make big public announcements, so it's not too odd."

Niamh nods at Calanthe.


Calanthe claims, "Rather than subvert Rubeus or Tenebrae "he's a bad guy.""


Steven claims, "It isnt exactly hidden knowledge"

Rothgar declaims to Niamh, "Hokie dokie. No big complaint there, I just found it odd and sudden. Cheers!"


Empena asks, "Well saying they know what mages feel about other mages, like . . how would people know that?"


Lyana states, "All I know is that big ball of air. dunno their voice."

Nyna states, "I also think it changes when IC deaths, supports dissappears, things expire, it shifts up and down"

Steven has lost link.


Calanthe laughs. "A disembodied voice's position is tenuous and vulnerable to a gambit!"

Steven has reconnected.

Lyana giggles.


Empena claims, "Because I'd think public discussion on your knowledge of Manus politics would be a problem"


Niamh says, "I think the issue the covert GLs are running into is that they might be disliked as their Clark Kent/Real identities and get subverted into the ground, then because there's no division between covert title and character for GL support, their covert title gets nailed."


Nadya claims, "I believe the bigger issue I was bringing up was 'namedropping that a disembodied voice and writings in the sky is available for a gambit'. I just find it a little silly."

Calanthe nods at Niamh.

Niamh claims to Empena, "You'd think."

Rothgar says to Niamh, "Ahh, well, that'd make sense, yeah."


Nadya claims, "Like, literal mage politics."


Niamh states, "On the topic, though: We're looking at some solutions and agree it needs some looking into."


Lorrent says, "That makes sense."


Micah states, "Would be kind of cool to have different mage factions. killing each other as a random thought."


Empena trails off, "You assume that doesn't or hasn't happened, which ..."


Calanthe wonders, "If nobody hears about it, does it really happen?"


Nadya states, "Keep your eyes open, Micah. Things happen at the underbelly."


Says the Troubadour. [Calanthe]

Niamh claims to Calanthe, "Dun dun dunnn."

Lyana grins.

Daire questions, "Do you really want mages warring in the streets Micah? Demons running around all willy nilly?

Azarial claims, "Players are free to creat their own groups. they don;t need coded guild suport."

Lorrent says to Daire, "I mean I do, yes."


Evrald says, "I'm pretty sure before the Manus was a thing once more"


Lyana claims, "Watch where you step micah. Someone may decide to fling you against the wall. "


Rothgar says, "We did that, once. Mages and demons in the street. I don't think it was well received."


Evrald claims, "The whole reason for htem wanting the Manus back was to stop the mage wars"

Niamh claims to Rothgar, "Permanent night was fab for that aristocratic complexion."


Lorrent states, "All I want are demons and mages running in the streets. And some Daravi to fight."


Micah says, "I didn't assume anything as much as thought about it, I don't assume to know all the rp."

Rothgar nods at Niamh.

Lyana grins.

Nadya claims, "THE DARAVI AGENDA."


Lyana states, "I will be hiding away somewhere. No fighty fighty for me."


Evrald states, "Because we had groups of 4 mages, causing havoc blaming another group then the other group fighting back and magic flying everywhere"


Nadya says, "FALSE TOWN CRIERS."


Calanthe pontificates, "Sorry for taking the topic and running. I know we have a lot of people still!"


Nadya says, "THEY'RE PUTTING CATS IN THE WATER TO TURN GOOD DAVITES INTO MAGES."

Lyana claims, "Get that pyre ready for about a dozen burnings today.. oh oh"

Daire trails off, "Poor cats..."


Desna blinks slowly at Nadya.

Lorrent states to Nadya, "Ugh, they would."


Nyna muses, "Does tossing a few puppies in afterwards undo that?"

Niamh wonders to Rothgar, "Did your question get answered satisfactorily? e.g. ready for next topic?"


Micah states, "Cat magic."


Rothgar claims, "Oh yeah, absolutely, sorry about that."

Nadya asks, "Can I run a TI-version of infowars?"


Steven claims, "I thought the long night plot went over rather well"


Niamh questions, "Next up is Eirian! Want to introduce us to your topic?"


Steven says, "What folks didnt like was we had had a lot of demon plots before kt."


Steven claims, "*it"

Niamh nods.


Niamh states, "Too much of a good thing, or some such."


Eirian states, "My own topic is rumor circles. A while back, I posted suggestions on the forums for improving rumors, and some of those suggestions had some traction (namely, rumor subjects not being tied to PC names -- so glad that was fixed) while others kinda fell to the wayside. I'd like to reiterate how helpful it would be if, upon rumor purchase (including the daily freebie upon login), you were told the circle right away and maybe even reminded that your responses should fit it/them. This would, I think, reduce the chances of people knee-jerk responding out of circle by accident or new players responding out of circle simply because they don't know any better or aren't in the habit of reviewing and rumor alling to double check."

Niamh nods.

Rothgar claims, "Phew, rumors."

Calanthe states, "I like that."

Niamh finishes her note.

Niamh claims, "Added to talk points list for the staff meeting."

Desna states to Eirian, "I like that."

Nadya claims, "Rumors are a hot tamale this time around."


Eirian states, "Thank ya."

Niamh says to Eirian, "Most welcome."


Nadya claims, "Talk to your local bard. Get in on the deets."


Steven states, "Would be neat if it was possible to restrict circles so only folks who apply to it could see them in the list."


Micah states, "I was just going to say that."

Nadya says, "That wouldn't really make much sense, since people can post as NPCs."

Desna states to Steven, "Also not a bad idea."

Niamh claims to Steven, "I agree they would be a lot more natural, but I do worry they'd be less populated."


Nyna wonders, "On that subject is anyone aloud to respond to the circle, so long as they phrase it appropriately, or do you actually have to have access to that circle? because if that is the case, people shouldn't be able to see said rumor unless they ARE in the circle.?"


Niamh states to Nyna, "Anybody can respond as long as it's done within the context of the circle."

Nyna nods.


Eirian claims, "We've discussed this a number of times, and there are lots of problems and potential unintended consequences that might result from restricting rumors."

Niamh nods.


Lorrent says, "I think the game-benefit of rumours being game-wide might outweigh the realism factor in this sense."


Nadya claims, "We're supposed to use circles as a means of creating a voice to respond. Not to restrict people from interacting with rumors."


Steven states, "Im not a fan of people using npcs to bash people and never have veen but meh, I know the reasoning for allowing it."

Lyana nods.


Nadya claims, "You're investing IP. I think it's perfectly valid-- Otherwise we'd need more things to do with IP."

Niamh states to Steven, "Same point of view 100%. I do suspect the system would suffer from going dead if we restricted them, though. Kind of a balance."


Micah says, "Yeah I 'm a little weirded about that. Like it strips consequences."


Nyna states, "IP could stand for a few more uses"

Lyana nods.


Nadya claims, "Then don't do sketchy things in public."


Micah says, "If you were to investigate the rumor and it just goes back to some joe shmoe."


Lyana states, "It so could"


Nadya says, "If things happen in private, then you can investigate the rumor."


Lyana says, "Hey"


Eirian claims, "I'd like to move on to the next topic, if that's okay? Since we've got a lot to cover."


Rothgar claims, "Something something anonymous, something something rumor system is TI 4chan, something something."

Niamh nods at Eirian.


Nadya wonders, "But if you do something in public?"

Eirian states, "This next one's not from me."


Nadya states, "You're open to the peanut gallery."

Niamh claims to Eirian, "Lay it on us."


Eirian copies and pastes. From Taunya's player: I'd like to bring the limits of retainers up for reconsideration. I play a freeman horse trader myself, but I think this is an issue for all freemen that work with the husbandry skill- it's very hard to manage your livestock when you can only have two retainers at a time.

In my case, I have to take multiple trips cross-map to bring my horses from the pasture I breed them at to the shop that I sell them at. I can only have two horses at a time, so that means releasing my normal mount, claiming two, traveling, releasing them, walking back, repeating, then finally reclaiming my normal mount at the end. I have to do a similar song and dance when bringing horses out to display to a potential customer.

This would be even more limiting for most husbandry animal types. For example, I couldn't bring my dog when I ran the binding demonstration during the health faire a while back, as the two pigs took up the slots for that. If someone wanted to play a shepherd, they can either have two sheep, or a sheep and a sheep dog. Not much of a flock.

Ideally, I'd like the limit of retainers to be brought up to 10 regardless of class. The cost and upkeep of the retainers should be enough to limit it without having to rely on an difficult OOC limitation on how many one has.


Eirian agrees 100% with Taunya.

Steven says to Rothgar, "Rofl TI 4chan. Omg youre right."


Azarial claims, "I've consdiered changing it form pet-mount to human-animal and pshig the animal limit out."

Niamh frowns, "I thought we changed it so animals weren't limited anymore, actually. Ages ago. Didn't we Az? Or maybe it's on the todo?"


Lorrent states, "Could we just make people-retainers have a different flag than animal-retainers."


Eirian claims, "I think now that we've gotten rid of purchase wealth, we should remove the 2-NPC limit from Freemen."


Lorrent questions, "And not limit animal retainers?"


Azarial states, "I don;t believe it was approved, but I could be wrong."


Azarial says, "There would have to be a sanity limit."


Nyna queries, "Does that mean I can travel with a pack of dogs?"

Daire questions, "I think limiting animals could be dropped myself. Maybe keep the limit scritctly for human retainers?"

Calanthe nods.

Niamh states, "I'll add it to the staff meeting list."


Steven says, "Is it possible to remove retainer limits now? Sort of feel taxes applying plus assets regulates it super well now."

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Lyana trails off, "What did ou say just now Stephen/ I didn't quite... understand it"


Eirian says, "I don't think we even need a limit on people retainers, either, given the upkeep and expenses."


Lyana states, "Yeah"


Nyna muses, "I think that might be a slippery slope. Seriously can I order my sheep to guard exits?"

Niamh finishes her note.


Calanthe states, "I do prefer a limit of some sort for spam reasons."


Nadya claims, "Oh my god."


Lyana says, "Although if we don't limit retainers then we'll have a bunch of rich people running around with fifteen servants. "


Empena says, "I think we need one for the sanity of other players people not bringing 15 NPCs into a scene "


Azarial says, "I have been adding humanity checks to commands as they come up."


Eirian claims, "Well, it's 10 for nobs."


Niamh claims, "Added this to the staff meeting list: "- Can we remove the cap on numbers of retainers and animals a person can own, as upkeep and expenses are self-regulating and it makes it very difficult for farmers/horse sellers.""


Lyana claims, "Rofl, get out of my head."


Steven states, "Well, folks have to pay taxes on retainers. Money is more limited now."


Azarial trails off, "And having once charmed a large group of animals...sanity limits prevent people from spamming everyone else off the mud walking through"

Lorrent claims to Eirian, "Luckily all the new nobles are pretty poor."

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Niamh finishes her note.

Steven states, "So its far less likely than it used to be."

Eirian pontificates to Niamh, "I think that'll satisfy Taunya. Thank you!"

Lyana trails off, "Speaking of poor nobility..."


Rothgar claims, "Definately worth taking that conversation to the forums, too, because it's a good one to have with our recent economy changes."


Nadya states, "We just have to kill off the old playerbase."

Niamh declares to Eirian, "No prob!"

Niamh nods in agreement with Rothgar.


Micah states, "Y That's my topic."


Azarial claims, "Though that would offer limitless zombies for an enterprising mage."

Lyana nods.

Desna claims, "It doesn't sound balancing if I could walk around with a group of hunting/guard dogs or multiple bodyguards."


Desna claims, "At least not for Freemen."

Rothgar claims to Azarial, "I'm okay with running undead army plot again."


Lyana says, "For nobles and gentry, perhaps, but freeman, yeah"


Nyna says, "I think its going to open the can for a ton of mob wars "


Safir states, "It's not only super frustrating for the characters with the limit, but trying to RP in scenes with them buying or looking at livestock animals is super tedious. "


Eirian claims, "I think giving everyone the same limit is the idea."

Eirian states, "Not removing a limit altogether."

Niamh nods at Safir.

Steven claims to Rothgar, "Gotta admit that sounds fun."


Evrald says, "You could just have it if it's above a certain number could have it read as "A group of animals has arrived with Player Name Here.""


Azarial claims, "Oh, not a plot. in actuality. not that anyone appears to have found the next step up."

Niamh nods at Eirian.


Desna states, "Don't mind me while I spend a buttload of XP on wealth and then purchase an NPC army."


Azarial states to Evrald, "Can't,, the way it is written."


Evrald says, "Dang."


Lyana sighs. "I don't have xp to spend on wealth. I am a sad bear.

Eirian says to Niamh, "I'm all done. Thank you."


Micah states, "Have we moved on from this topic? i'm lost."

Niamh muses to Eirian, "Did your topics get answered/okay for us to move on to the next?"

Eirian nods.


Nyna states, "Fluffy go guard the south exits, Puffy you go guard the north...you others take the rest, okay good sheep."


Lyana states, "Yes."


Micah claims, "I am no longer lost."


Nyna states, "Sounds fishy to me"

Lyana giggles.

Niamh states, "Excellent! Next up is Evrald. Lay it on us Ev."

Steven claims, "Oh baby, lay it on."


Niamh spanks Steven.


Micah whistles.

Evrald says, "Again, it's a bit of a wall of text."


Lyana leans forward. "I wanna be spanked please..." She grins.

Nadya claims to Niamh, "You disgust me."


Micah snorts.

Steven states to Nadya, "Dont be jealous."


Evrald says, "Hello, there's been a bit of a discussion going on lately and I know it's an ongoing process to get it fixed up and ready for everyone to actually take advantage of more fully. But when the assets spec was released it was sold to the playerbase as something where if you put in the time, you'd see more pay for your effort. As it stands right now, that isn't true and actually feels like the opposite of true."


Evrald claims, "As an example, if Player 1 has Import Job and Import Shop as a T1 and T2 asset and Player 2 has Import Job and Import Shop as a T1 and T2 asset. Player 1 puts in several hours a week of RP to attempt to improve their asset and get something more out of it through RP. Player 2 logs in, plays for 1 hour a week with their friends because they don't need to play more to take advantage of the system. In this scenario, one would think that Player 1 whose putting in the effort gets more pay, but the reality of the system is that both Player 1 and Player 2 get the same pay, despite activity being null by comparison."


Evrald says, "This means the system has a glaring flaw in it, it's supposed to help generate more RP, and is instead causing RP to not be required as even the old weekly payout system did. You 'had' to be active every week to get your tiny paycheck as a freemen. If you put in the time, you could Purchase Silver and you would sacrifice your XP earned to earn silver which some may consider money that appears out of nowhere, but in reality was more like you were working extra jobs somewhere to bring in extra money."


Evrald says, "So at the end of this I have a request. I was told that the effort put in would get you back a greater pay, but that would never match someone of higher standing for Freeman to Gentry. I can understand that, different social classes, if Gentry put in a bit of work, they have way more money coming in. "


Evrald says, "My request is can you make it so that Assets are upgradeable? Only 1 level increase with be helpful. But for Freemen only have 2 assets purchaseable and max total level being 3 to purchase. Then you can upgrade Assets by +1 each. Allowing for a Freemen to have 2 assets and after putting in the effort having 5 levels total from a Level 2 and a Level 3. This is still less than a Gentry can get at the base level of 3 assets and 6 levels. And if the Gentry puts in the time and effort they could have 3 assets with a total of 9 levels. Which just makes the rich richer and the poor seem poorer by comparison, but it will in turn feel like there's something to work towards with assets, something that will lead to upgrades."

Evrald falls over. x_x


Eirian wobbles.


Niamh says, "Reading - sec."


Evrald exclaims, "I did warn you! I warned all of you!"


Steven claims, "I feel the people putting effort in make more via crafting and maintaining shops."


Rothgar claims, "+1, bretty good."


Lyana falls to her knees while screaming, "Nooooooo!"


Steven states, "Whereas the dude who just rps a little is only making from assets and wont be able to just spend xp on cash"


Nadya states, "There are quite a few leftovers from old-school dealing, honestly, that I would like to comment on, here."


Empena says, "I agree that having an activity connection to assets would be keen - that was an advantage before. "


Calanthe wonders, "There is one, no?"

Calanthe states, "Four weeks inactive loses your assets."


Nyna states, "Not understanding the assets and not participating in them beyond the barest minimum, I cant say either way, I just know its complicated, convoluted and has choked the silver supply (as it was meant to do). "


Niamh claims, "I think there is still a relation to activity and effort in that if the metric your asset is connected to is higher, you'll make more money, and if you're active you're more likely to be gaining the IP to sway metrics."


Evrald questions, "So you log in once a month to be around?"


Niamh states, "That doesn't invalidate the overarching point, however."

Azarial states, "The way it is designed, they are not capable of being upgraded"


Calanthe states, "I'm a little confused by the main question, I confess."

Steven says, "I'm not keen on it. I work 40 hour work weeks and dont really feel I should be punished because I cant match the absurdly high limits some of our players reach to hit "High" rp levels"


Lyana says, "Me too... i mean... nobles wouldn't be rping working at their own shop, but they would rp at buying clothes."


Evrald claims, "The thing is Niamh, If two players have the same T1 and T2 assets. It doesn't matter how much you put in or not."


Cerise claims, "I would prefer that money remains not linked to player's activity."

Eirian states to Steven, "I feel ya."


Lyana states, "If they owned a clothing shop like mine does."

Evrald says, "For a Noble, they don't work the shop, but rather own it I feel."

Niamh questions to Evrald, "Like if they had the exact same assets, down to the metric assignments?"


Evrald claims, "Yes."

Azarial states, "If you;re active, it autopays weekly if you don;t get it. otherwise you have to login and get it"


Lyana claims, "Yeah"

Niamh nods.


Lyana states, "Taht is what I say. She ownes it but she wouldn't be caught dead working the counter."

Nadya states, "((ON THE TOPIC OF WEIRDNESS IN THE TRANSITION WITH ASSETS AND CRAFTERS)) If you're going to be dealing with crafters, but want to have minimal contact, please be prepared to cover the cost of shipping. As someone who's had to explain this, if you're expecting low prices, while trying to keep incognito, you do need to be a bit more creative with the increase of the worth of silver."


Niamh states, "That's pretty unlikely to happen, but I see what you're getting at."


Eirian claims, "Assets are a replacement of the old weekly pay based on class. There's now a lot more flexibility in the system if you're willing to invest in it. I don't think it was ever designed to be based on activity level -- and neither was the old system."

Niamh nods at Eirian.


Evrald states, "If I have a T1 and T2 that are the same exact jobs on a metric level as someone else. And I RP a bunch. and they don't, we both get the same pay for drastically different amounts of work and effort."


Augustus muses, "What do assets have to do with RP levels?"


Calanthe queries, "Am I wrong in thinking the main point is whether or not an asset can be upgraded over time?"


Micah says, "You are right, Cal."


Eirian says, "If you want rewards based on your activity, they should be through actual RP -- not assets."


Azarial says, "The only affect activity hgas is that if you idle out afte a month to six weeks, the assets go up for sale"

Eirian claims, "Wheeling and dealing, my friends."

Niamh states to Augustus, "Nothing directly. IP is what allows you to affect a city metric, and city metrics determine how much money your asset pays out."


Lyana asks, "Dies it ... is it based on rp level, though?"


Rothgar says, "I just don't like assets. Though I do think the option for upgrading would encourage people to use them more."

Nyna states, "Basing income on activity is only going to harm players who have lives outside the game"


Augustus claims, "Right, I guess it was a rhetorical question."


Eirian says, "Favors, bounties, finding things to offer that others can't, jobs as PC guards/gardeners, etc."


Micah claims, "I agree with that. "


Cerise says, "To evrald We have the choice to consider it as background activity, or foreground one, which is great, imho."

Calanthe nods at Eirian.


Azarial says, "Asset value/payout is not based on activity."


Lyana claims, "Yeah but I admit I do have a life outside of the game and some days I may not be on, maybe, it's questionable... i love you guys."

Empena sneezes loudly.


Micah states, "Though I currently think Assets can be a little choking and a pain in the ass to people who just come here and have little rpxp."

Lyana nods.


Evrald says, "Originally when I asked, effort meant more result out of an asset. As it stands, that isn't the case. And instead effort plays no role at all."


Nadya states, "Eirian, that's also something people need to be more open to, however. Without much means of actively getting silver, people need to be more open to other crafts having to be on the opposite side of the haggling end."

Desna states to Empena, "Bless you."


Calanthe claims, "I don't have any experience with selling assets, though I know some are marked as unsellable."

Lyana states, "The tier one's are unsellable, I think."

Augustus claims, "I mean, if you put effort into RP and spend 50 hours a week RPing, you'll probably find ways to make more money than somebody who doesn't"

Eirian says, "Freebies can't be sold, and jobs in general can't be sold, I think."


Evrald claims, "Your 'free' tier 1 is unsellable"

Lairaza has left the game.

Lorrent claims to Augustus, "And when you die you'll have more xp for assets next time."


Augustus claims, "I don't think assets are meant to be the 'effort input' part of the game"


Eirian says, "You can't sell your job to someone else."


Micah states, "Unless you're atroubadour or a knight."

Eirian grins.

Niamh wonders to Evrald, "I feel like there's two separate points in there. One is the perception of unfairness behind the possibility of there being two owners of identical assets, one plays and pushes his metric hard and the other doesn't play, but they both end up with the same money at the end of the week. Right?"


Eirian claims, "But you can sell a shop, etc."


Azarial says, "The free one can be sold if you pick one that is salable"


Steven states, "Im gonna be honest - I already feel punished because support is tied to the activity metric and I have to rp more than 20 hours to get above average.. which is crazy."


Nyna trails off, "I have found several ways to make money outside of assets, and its working very well..."


Calanthe questions, "I think the idea has merit that you can potentially upgrade a tier 1 over time. Maybe something like needing to have the asset active for a certain amount of months, then it can be sold or upgraded with a proper coin or XP spending?"

Niamh states, "Just a sec guys. Lets let Evrald get through his topic."

Desna nods at Nyna.

Micah states, "Troubadours count on the players, and if the players aren't interacting and paying out funds then there's no money being made."


Evrald says, "Yea."

Niamh nods at Evrald.


Steven states, "Not keen on it affecting my income too."


Desna states, "There is lots of silver outside the asset system"


Azarial states, "As a gl, you only need one hour a week to not get the hit on the support"

Niamh questions to Evrald, "The second point is that you would like for assets to be upgradeable?"

Evrald states, "Yep"

Eirian states to Steven, "It's a tall order. The best you can do is ask for support ICly to counteract the drain."


Evrald says, "The upgradeable is directly related to the effort put in."


Niamh states, "How did they two correlate? I apologize if you addressed that. I think I lost it in scroll."


Niamh says, "*the"

Lorrent claims, "If it is not codely possible, could this instead be the sort of thing that one could request for? IE, I work at a shop for a T1 asset, I save my IC silver over time, and I want to buy the shop. I put in a request to staff to make a T2 asset for me to purchase with my ICly saved silver, and remove the T1 asset in exchange for buying it."


Evrald states, "So if actually put in the effort and I have a T1 and T2, same as person 2. I work at upgrading them and putting in effort. And they don't. I get the pay off from it."


Nyna claims, "I was under the impression that Assets were just a dole for the classes to ensure players at least had SOME coin, but income should not be limited to only assets, there is plenty of ways to make silver without the 'government assistance', it just takes a little creativity and time on line. So if you have the time, you should be fine."

Niamh nods at Evrald.

Desna nods in agreement with Nyna.

Niamh nods at Nyna.

Evrald says, "By making them upgradeable you have the ability to put in the effort. While you'll never be as good as your class betters are by default, you can at least make your lot a little better."


Micah claims, "Part of that problem is I think that there are a lot of people who just aren't spending."


Lorrent says, "I do like the idea of putting in work and upgrading assets through silver purchase but it also seems like if there were assets to buy that would do the same thing."


Niamh asks, "I'll need to leave most of this for Kinaed to read over and digest, I think. They're interesting thoughts. Happy to hold out until then?"


Evrald says, "Yep."


Azarial claims, "If they;re not spending, it's ahrd to keep balancing the economy so that it works"

Niamh pontificates to Evrald, "Thanks!"

Calanthe states to Evrald, "Thanks for bringing that up! It's making some wheels turn."


Nadya states, "And Micah brings up a good point. ... Everyone does need to adapt to the new asset system."


Micah claims, "Right which kind of ties into my thing when we get there."

Sauvaige is idle.

Sauvaige is no longer idle.
Sauvaige has returned from AFK.


Niamh wonders, "Next up is Micah! Can we have your topic?"


Azarial says, "You can sell the t1 and buy a t2, which works wihtin the system as it was designed"


Evrald states, "I asked Kinky back when it all happened with the spec beign announced, "Will this mean that effort means If I put in more time and effort than the other guy, I get more than him?" "Yes! But you won't be making more than say a Gentry, as a class standard.""


Daire states, "I think the economy is a bit messed up right now honestly. Things need to be balanced a bit. I feel like people pay way too much when they buy even the smallest things. And crafters could charge less if materials didn't cost so much. Daire is an artist so its a bit hard to find wealthy people to buy art when people struggle to buy the basics. Thats just my opinion. Assets help but the economy needs fixing."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Evrald says, "The upgrades seem like the way to cause that."


Augustus claims, "Systems evolve"

Lorrent nods at Daire.


Steven claims, "I feel your effort should include things that make money if you want more money. Like a shop."

Calanthe claims to Daire, "Per the forums, staff is looking into that a bit already."


Steven says, "Which is a direct payoff."
Eirian claims to Evrald, "In a sense, it's true. Time and effort = silver via RP means = more money with which to buy assets."


Evrald says, "So that anyone who puts in the time and effort to upgrade their lot in life, gets a little bit better off than those around them, but still not as good as that gentry who inheirited his families wine fields and two shops in town"

Lorrent begins to count their money.

Eirian states, "More assets means more silver with which to RP, etc."

[Whisper]

Niamh states, "We're almost out of time, guys. Lets cut this one to let Micah address his topic."

Calanthe nods at Niamh.

Eirian nods.


Micah says, "Yes. It runs along the line of the poor noble thing. When I created all my xp went into assets and wealth, but with how my assets turned out I'm actually making only as much as the freeman. This in theory is sort of fine, but my problem is. That as a noble who really does nothing but manage the city affairs, bosses people around and is a source of revenue as well as conflict, with the current changes? I do not feel that I am able to spend, hire staff, manage an estate go to craftsman and throw money at gentry and freeman who need it because, well, I'm as poor as the gentry."


Steven claims, "You should have a tier 2 noble domain asset for free"


Eirian says, "I'm not following."


Steven says, "Plus whatever you bought"


Micah says, "Lore wise this makes sense, but with a city economy that needs silver being passed about. Really nobility should be funding most of that economy, and unless you were nobility before the changes there's no way to do that really consistantly."


Eirian says, "Should at least have a tier 2, yeah."


Niamh claims, "Gentry and Nobility should be about on par with each other. Gentry are Freemen who have either personally made enough money to live a noble lifestyle, or come from families who have."

Eirian nods.


Niamh claims, "For the poor noble thing, they do come with a free Tier 2, yes."


Nadya claims, "The issue is that Micah is saying, I believe, he is uncertain if he's able to hire gentry/freeman services on a reasonable basis to help keep things circulating."


Steven states, "Freeman pay should really be considered a couple of tier 1s"

Niamh questions to Micah, "How long have you been at it so far?"

Niamh nods at Nadya.


Calanthe has a question that could attach to Micah's.


Micah claims, "Right. I should probably need to get that however, I think it's just odd, since really I don't make funds because well, gentry can work, but nobility are already restricted and now it's kind of like killing anything to deal with the economy because I have to conserve so much to spread the love on funds that already make next to nothing."

Niamh nods at Micah.


Nyna claims, "I have two tier one assets, I get about 100 silver to 120 depending on metrics. I never use it, I find my silver elsewhere and pull from that stuff once in a while"


Micah states, "I mean how many nobility before the change just bought crap tons of wealth and made things dramaticly easier. So, that's my thing I guess."


Eirian claims, "Well, when you just start, there's more to prioritize on."


Eirian states, "New this, new that, retainers, a proper weapon."

Nadya says, "However, actually making silver on-grid still needs some adjustment. Player-side. Because there's no real way to make up the overhead from boxes/etc., both sides do need to be more open to taking risks to actually be able to make silver. Otherwise, both parties just end up losing."

Niamh claims to Micah, "A long term solution would be that since your class can have a very high number of asset levels, save up with the free t2 to buy more holdings. It's not an immediate solution, mind, but something for "eventually.""


Calanthe muses, "How do people feel about assuming their asset is background connected to another character? Meaning, if I want to play a servant and I choose an asset related to that, and I get work in a PC noble's household, we could agree that my asset money was coming from their household?"

say my topic is related to this actually...

Daire trails off, "My topic is related to this actually..."


Lorrent says, "It's hard to start as a nobleman. I still don't have enough money to buy a mansion and house PC servants, which is a pretty big incentive for being nobility."

Lyana trails off, "Yeah..."


Nyna states, "Again, I dont have any trouble finding silver in game, and Im a freeman"


Evrald claims, "When you start off in CG you are looking at a system, and unless you're a veteran, you aren't maxing out your assets, you're looking at skills, and other little bits and bobbles to learn and be apart of"


Lyana states, "I'm a new noble and even I don't have enough to do that"


Eirian says, "Nobles have other things to offer. Like favor and support and political clout, etc."


Micah claims, "Exactly so if starting wealth was adjusted that'd countfor a lot at least."

Calanthe nods in agreement with Eirian.


Evrald states, "Wealth buy maybe but only if you have the excess."


Lorrent states, "Considering the drop rate of noble PCs even in the time I've played here, with them dwindling down, and hearing upon my creation from other PCs that "there's nothing to do as a noble," I think looking at how much wealth nobles start off with is important."

Niamh nods at Micah.

Micah says, "Assets are fine in themselves, it's the starting funds we come in with."

Lyana nods.

Niamh questions to Micah, "Do you have ideas on what might resolve it? More starting silver for nobles?"


Eirian states, "Yeah, I'm guessing they don't really let you hit the ground running."


Nadya says, "I'd say that the nobility will have more to do, once the Council starts becoming active again. And thus, politics and goals can begin."


Azarial says, "Note that I am tracking all silver flow through the game to watch the economy and see what needs balancing. keep on buying things and what not so we have data to check against the costs of various things, such as niamh's projects"


Evrald says, "Boo richer nobles, yay richer savages"


Micah states, "Yes. I'd suggest five thousand starting silver for nobles, and keep assets as they are."


Evrald says, "Or something"


Daire questions, "Nobles shouldn't be in my opinion as broke as they are starting out. Granted thats just my opinion. But I think some form of IC wealth purchasing should be allowed for nobles at the very least or the new ones should get a bonus of some kind to thier wealth so they can help stimulate growth and RP with merchants and other players who could serve them. Since they cannot work this is made even more important I think. Assets help but when you start as a noble there are so many intial costs. A house, retainers, extra clothing, furnishing for the house. I think a one time boost of money could be very helpful to new nobles. What do you think? "


Lorrent says, "More starting silver, a larger than one room house for free for nobles (so you can house PC servants and gardeners and such)"


Eirian says, "There's no way I'd pay the cost to purchase wealth, as it stands."


Eirian says, "The price tag is ridiculous."

Niamh nods at Micah.

Desna nods in agreement with Eirian.


Lyana asks, "10 thousand xp?"

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Nyna nods at Eirian.


Steven questions, "Maybe it might be worth considering making the noble asset a tier 3 instead of a 2?"


Nyna says, "Not worth it at all"

Lorrent nods at Steven.

Niamh finishes her note.


Evrald claims, "10k XP for 1k silver."


Steven states, "I mean, the domains sort of fit the bill for a tier 3."

Niamh nods at Steven.


Azarial claims, "It;s the same ratio as before"

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Micah claims, "I believe Lorrent has the right of it. if we're to generate RP we need the tools to do that."


Evrald claims, "Yep. That's for purchase wealth."


Micah states, "Right now we don't have that."

Niamh finishes her note.


Calanthe wonders, "There's an idea. Maybe the XP you pay to be a noble could be earmarked for spending on coin or something?"

Evrald says, "It's also why I never purchased wealth, because as a freemen you didn't need the IP that came with it."


Evrald wonders, "But now you don't get an IP with it do you?"

Lorrent says to Azarial, "I purchased 100 gold for 50k xp as a noble when I started. It is now 10 gold for 10k xp, or 50 gold for 50k xp."


Steven states, "Asset money adds up real fast. I think that would solve everything there."


Calanthe says, "Without losing it at death."


Niamh says, "Added higher starting silver and domain assets becoming t3 instead of t2 to the talking points."

Eirian claims to Evrald, "I think the IP bonus is detached from purchase wealth, now."

Nadya says, "Yes, there is no more IP bonus."


Evrald trails off, "Which means... the reason that it was more expensive to purchase wealth than purchase silver"


Nyna states, "Can we take this to the forums and move on. Tick Tock"

Evrald claims, "Is no longer a thing"


Steven asks, "Nobles already get 1000 starting dont they?"

Niamh nods at Steven.

Steven says, "That seems pretty fair to me personally."


Evrald states, "Yea. But a Freemen starts with 500 silver."


Micah blinks

Calanthe says, "I'd like to see this chatted up on the forums, personally! And it feels like something that will need more staff consideration too."


Evrald says, "That's only 5 gold more than your standard theif running the streets"

Evrald muses, "If the nobility are that poor, then why even bother robbing them?"


Eirian claims, "1000 doesn't get you far on a noble lifestyle, but-- again, in the meantime, I recommend making deals IC with the clout you have and "your word" and that sort of thing."

Niamh states, "We're at the hour! Is everybody happy to stay another 10 minutes or so to finish player topics? We have just one left."


Lyana exclaims, "Sure!"


Calanthe claims, "Certainly."


Steven claims, "Because having a tier 2 or 3 asset reflects their wealth Evrald"

say A single basic retainer ic 500 silver.. 1000 is nothing.

Daire states, "A single basic retainer ic 500 silver.. 1000 is nothing."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)


Steven says, "Not their pocket change"

Eirian declaims to Niamh, "Let's hear it!"

Niamh states, "Whoops... actually two more. We have Calanthe, and then the anonymous one."


Niamh pontificates, "Calanthe!"

Calanthe declares, "I never remembered!"

Evrald states, "I can agree that Nobles should get the T3 for free instead of the T2. a T2 is a shop. a T3 is a bank... one of these things is Barony sized, the other is something a city on a street corner."

Empena is idle.

Niamh grins at Calanthe.

say you forgot me. But Micha brought up half of what I wanted to discuss anyway.

Daire says, "You forgot me. But Micha brought up half of what I wanted to discuss anyway."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)
Lorrent nods at Evrald.

Eirian grins at Calanthe.

Empena is no longer idle.
Empena has returned from AFK.

Niamh claims to Daire, "Calanthe has forgotten hers. It's fate. Daire topic go"


Eirian claims, "The Merchants' guild is offering small business loans, by the way! Very discreet."


Eirian winks.


Nadya asks, "Has anyone taken a 'pimp' asset yet?"


Niamh laughs.

Lyana giggles.


Micah claims, "...I think I did."


Steven states, "Would be neat if the noble domain asset also includes a resource."


Micah claims, "On an alt."


Daire asks, "The second thing I wanted to bring up is more of a question. Micha already addressed the first thing, that was about noble money. I had been planning to try and run a story for a while now. I just need to stop putting it off. But I wanted to ask if people would be interested in more simple st plots or more complex ones? Things like a one time scene where a group of pickpockets takes advantage of a theater performance vs a draw out multi scene plot? What is your preference?"
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)


Lyana queries, "There's a pmp asset?"

Lorrent says to Micah, ""On an alt.""

Evrald muses to Eirian, "I'll take it all. Payment plan of 5 silver daily sounds good to pay it back right?"

Lyana claims, "Who is pimping."

Eirian exclaims to Daire, "We've had both done quite well in the past!"


Augustus states, "I think you're better off with one time scenes in a general sense, because it's easier to coordinate logins and such"


Nadya says, "I'd only say: Be careful with doing that with already struggling guilds."


Empena questions, "Can you request a resource if it isn't available?"

Augustus claims, "But like Eirian said, complex running stories have worked well too"

Eirian claims to Evrald, "In IC terms, that's about right on par with actual repayment. "


Micah states, "I like both."


Evrald wonders to Eirian, "Cool. So I'm taking the 100 gold loan then? :p"


Nadya states, "Generally, I'd recommend starting with a simple plot to get used to the system, and only running complex plots, when you're all ready."

Steven begins to count their money.


Niamh states, "Last topic is an anonymous one. I'm struggling to adapt it so it still makes sense but doesn't include names. Uhhh... Give me just a moment, here."

Desna begins to count their money.

Lyana trails off, "Uh..."


Steven states, "Oooh spooky"


Lyana claims, "Taht's weird"


Nadya makes it hail coins on Steven.


Eirian states, "The story system can be overwhelming at first! Probably practical, as Nadya suggests, to start simple and get a feel for it."


Steven claims, "Too spoopy for me"


Eirian states, "Also, make use of the Tutorial."

Desna says to Steven, "You said Spoopy :p"


Steven claims, "How do folks feel about demonic serial killer plots"

Calanthe claims to Desna, "I was thinking that."


Lyana says, "No"


Steven says, "Involving zombie invasions."


Evrald says, "I remember doing stuff with the stories... it involved a tiger."


Evrald claims, "Good times"


Calanthe states, "I would personally like to see all kinds of plots, but for us all to work together so we're not oversaturated with one sorte."


Niamh claims, "It boils down to: There is a suggestion that we change to a single character per account system, where each player can play only one character at a time. The idea behind this is to discourage a style of metagaming that is reported as prevalent, where a group of friends all play together and then when one of their alts should by rights be destroying one of their OOC friends, they can "bow out" on the premise of crossover."


Calanthe states, "Sort"


Lyana trails off, "Wow..."


Niamh claims, "Thus preventing that person from having repercussions from anywhere in the game."


Eirian says, "That's an interesting way to put it."


Niamh states, "I think that's... about as close as I'm going to be able to get to summarizing."


Lyana trails off, "And why is this ananomous..."

Lyana nods.

Eirian grins at Lyana.


Lyana trails off, "Ah mean come on..."


Lyana giggles at Eirian.


Calanthe says, "I remain in favor of multiple characters."


Micah states, "I don't midnd either way honestly."

Cerise states, "While I could think about a single character per account, I think that the explained reason should be discussed separately."


Desna wonders, "You mean like ... I RP with Niamh and she's a bad girl, but I also play a character that would go after her but can't because I play her friend?"


Lyana says, "If I had to play a single char then I'd have to get rid of my other two."


Nyna states, "I could see it for Guild Leader positions easy, that's fair"


Daire claims, "I would prefer the option to play multiples."


Rothgar states, "I've only ever played a single character at a time, still in favor of multiple characters. Punishing the pbase, present and future, for something like that? I mean... Come on."

Niamh claims, "This has the potential to go well over the time limit. If anyone would like a transfer out, lemme know."


Lyana says, "I play multiple characters at a time."


Calanthe says, "I'd prefer to see encouragement to be extremely careful about the sort of potential crossing you run into."


Nadya says, "Well, I think the idea has some weight. I honestly think that people still need to be wary about the issue of crossover when it comes down to it."


Sauvaige claims, "Punish the ones responsible, not the player base by removing a feature."


Micah says, "I actually prefer one at a time. I usually am logged off on one if I'm RPing with another anyway so it only would effect me if I were grinding. out skills."


Augustus says, "I also don't think it's really going to do much to stop people finding ways to coordinate OOCly or other ways to metagame/etc"


Lyana trails off, "I mean, I could retire both of my chars and keep this one, but... it would make me a little sad..."


Nyna muses, "There is no punishment in one character, what's wrong with dedicating yourself to the role?"


Lorrent claims, "I don't mind either way. It's a smaller playerbase so sometimes PCs will have to bow out of RP. But I enjoy having an alt because sometimes, I want a breather from one character."


Micah says, "That I do agree with."
Niamh nods at Augustus.


Calanthe states, "I trust most people to keep things separate and for everyone involved to figure out a way forward if it suddenly becomes complicated by alts."

Desna nods at Nyna.

Calanthe nods in agreement with Lorrent.

Safir is idle.

Niamh nods at Nyna.


Nadya states, "However, as a GL, it can be extremely awkward, and please hear me out."


Evrald claims, "I'd have to agree. While I typically only play one character at a time, I know other people use multiple at a time. It helps with XP income and allows you to stay more busy."


Desna claims, "I say a 1 character policy would be good and keep things like crossover to a minimal."

Safir is no longer idle.
Safir has returned from AFK.


Lyana says, "No I don't mind dedicating to a role, I enjoy it."

Niamh claims to Nadya, "Listening."


Nadya states, "First of all, Lyana, you're fine."


Empena muses, "Isn't that people assuming they know all about another characters motivation for things?"


Nadya states, "No need to worry."

Niamh says to Empena, "No."

Augustus says, "People always get up in arms over metagaming but it's hard to really mitigate it without punishing everybody. This stuff traditionally has only been able to be handled manually"

Azarial says, "Especially when said metagming drives other players off the game."

Niamh nods at Azarial.

Azarial shrugs eloquently with more tail than shoulders.

Lyana huggles Nadya

Evrald plays with Azarial tails idly.

Niamh claims to Evrald, "Best pastime."

Lyana grins.

Evrald claims, "Totally is."

Niamh listens to Nadya.

Nyna states, "I have this character for meetings and one in game. When the one in game is done, I will make a new one. Its to make sure there is never any crossover issues, and to give me time to enjoy more fully the role and makes me find ways to interact with the world at large in new ways to keep me entertained"

Desna claims to Empena, "It makes sense. I mean, if I'm RPing with someone who's say a Brotherhood Character and have a relationship with them, then I play a Reeve on an alt. I can't go after said Brotherhood Character because I RP a relationship with them. It means that Brother has a 'get out of jail free card' is no one else will take up the mantle."

Evrald says, "I break the game all the time just so Azarial will show up to fix it, so I can play with the tails."

Azarial states, "Which has been a recurring trend, and needs to be passed up to kin on the specific cases so it can be dealt with."

Empena claims, "That combo isn't allowed"

Lorrent says, "You can't play a Reeve and a Brotherhood character."

Cerise claims, "The problem is that it's not only metagaming which is mentionned in this topic, but, group of players oocly favorizing themselves, which is a bit shocking."

Niamh claims to Azarial, "I kept the full context of the anonymous suggestion for Kinaed. It'll definitely be going up the ladder."

Lyana nods.

Desna says to Empena, "No, it is allowed."

Lyana states, "You can't, it' simpossible."

Lyana says, "Uh.."

Nadya states, "Second of all, I think there should be a little bit of transparency, when people join into guilds, or have notable PC alts. People in charge of your guild -need- to know what you can and can't do due to crossover. You can still totally remain incognito-- But always be sure that people know, or that you're sure you can run a position without getting crossover."

Empena states, "According to helpfiles it isn't"

Azarial claims, "Yeah, i was speaking of the general case for anyone else that might be stewing on something similar."

Nadya claims, "For example, I wouldn't be caught dead, playing a plaguebearer-- Because I'd crossover on accident."

Desna asks of Empena, "Where?"

Niamh states, "I think it's in help dual guild."

Niamh states, "Help dualguilding? Something like that."

Desna claims, "That's not what I'm saying."

Desna wonders, "May I have a moment to put it all together?"

Niamh nods at Desna.

Calanthe nods.

Niamh claims, "Sure."

Evrald states, "Player 1 is a Reeve, player 2 is a Brother Hood, Player 1's alt is Player 2's spouse."

Micah claims, "I personally don't mind one at a time. I would take issue if you make people get rid of their alts. I suppose. Then again I'm super transparent with my characters so to me everyone knows anyway...oh."

Eirian says, "Yeah, can't play a guilded Reeve and Thief. Can't do Order and Manus. Game will bark at you if you try."

Evrald states, "It's 100% legal and doable."

Nyna says, "I still say at least for guildleaders"

Lyana grins.

Lyana says, "That... is difficult."

Nadya claims, "Well, there's a difference between purposeful, violent metagaming, and accidental."

Nyna claims, "Its fair, they are held to a higher standard on a lot of things"

Niamh says, "Note that we don't have removing the ability to play alts on the roster right now, too. No need to panic."

Augustus says, "I feel like GLs need alts more than anybody. Sometimes you need a day off to get into some other RP"

Eirian trails off, "This is definitely not the first time this topic has come up, and as current circumstances suggest, it's never gained any real traction, but who knows? Could take it to a forum poll..."

Lyana shakes and bites her lip

Sauvaige muses, "So what about those guildleaders who do have alts? Would they expected to liquidate their other characters or put them on ice?"

Evrald trails off, "As I said..."


Desna claims, "Player 1 is a Brother, Player 2 is not a Brother. These two players RP as close friends or lovers (just for examples sake). Now, Player 2 has an alt who is a Reeve but their Reeve cannot approach Player 1's Brother because of the current RP on an Alt. Now, if no one steps up to challenge said Brother, there is no repercussions for being a brother because Player 2 can't go against them."


Nyna claims, "Then go play WoW for a day"


Lyana trails off, "Yeah, i mean... I have two alts, one is a gl..."

Niamh nods at Desna.


Lorrent claims, "But that's the same as them not having an alt at all."


Nadya states, "Like, again, if I played as someone that'd reasonably have business with my own character-- Like, immediately, or else my story gets held into limbo. But I didn't intend on this happening, even though it was always a threat of occuring."

Niamh claims to Desna, "I see what you're saying."


Evrald says, "Player 1 is a reeve in this scenario. Player 2 is a Brotherhood member. Player 1's alt is married or dating Player 2's Brotherhood member."


Calanthe says, "I think that falls into the realm of alt conflict avoidance. If you choose to run multiple characters, the onus is on you - not others - to keep your circles appropriately separate."


Evrald states, "Player 1 cannot go after the brotherhood member(or refuses to) because it will cause crossover."

Eirian nods at Calanthe.


Nadya asks, "Being the only coroner to my alt's murder?"

Niamh claims to Evrald, "Exactly that, I think."

Desna claims to Niamh, "So you end up with this revolving door of a handful of players getting away with everything because of how many PCs are distributed amongst the Pbase."

Niamh nods.


Lorrent claims, "If Player 2's Reeve can't go after Player 1's character, it is no different at all than if Player 2 didn't have that Reeve character in this situation. Except that, Player 2's Reeve still has plenty of other RP in the world that they're doing and creating."


Eirian claims, "And report crossover -- or discourage it, please, if it's among your friends."


Rothgar wonders, "So the best answer to this is to remove alts?"


Desna states, "So I get it, a 1 character policy would be appropriate."


Lyana trails off, "Um..."

Evrald says, "That. Is 100%. Legal. By the rules. The issue someone would have is "Well Player 1's Reeve should go after them anyway. So They shouldn't have gotten themselves into the situation.""


Steven claims, "I can see the logic behind the 1 character policy."


Micah says, "That or cut down alts to two, maybe."


Nadya says, "I wouldn't say remove alts. I'm just suggesting for people to take more time in crafting alts, so that for them, they're not easily put into the situation."

Daire trails off, "I can't play just one character though...sometimes I just cannot get into a character so I need alts..."

Steven states, "But I love my alts."

Micah says, "I would hate to get rid of alts for people who are good about it."

Desna claims to Evrald, "You can't go after them because it's crossover"

Lyana states, "Me too"

Calanthe states, "I would say policing your brass is the appropriate policy."

Niamh nods.

Azarial claims, "And repeat offenders can be noalted"

Lorrent claims, "Imagine how many less roles there will be that need filled if we didn't have alts here."

Lyana wonders, "Right?"

Azarial states, "But we need it reported so we can address it"

Micah says, "I agree."

Evrald says, "As I stands, I have one alt with Evrald being my main. That one alt, won't really see the light of day except very very infrequently until Evrald is retired or liquidated."

Desna says to Lorrent, "But consider how many of those roles would be picked up and thematic/"

Calanthe says, "Look ahead at where your alts might bump into each other and avoid going in those directions. Clean up after yourself and you'll have few problems."

Lyana claims, "I mean, if you want us to play one at a time, I cna get down with that, but no alts at all... I kinda sometimes want to be someone else, yo know."

Calanthe claims, "Work with the players involved if you run into an issue, ask for staff help if necessary."

Nyna says to Evrald, "That's what I have, and I get by"

Evrald states, "Sometimes you don't want to RP the savage. Sometiems you do."

Desna claims, "I use to play a mud that allowed you to 'ice' your alts."

Calanthe claims, "And leave it in Staff's hands to restrict alts for a player if they're a repeat offender or what have you."


Desna says, "Making it so you couldn't play them without staff unicing them and changing out your characters"


Steven says, "Gonna admit, with as stressful as Justiciar has been, Id never do it if I didnt have an alt to blow off steam on."


Empena trails off, "Yeah ..."


Lyana claims, "Sometimes I just wanna be a girl who knows nothing."


Augustus claims, "I think it's probably fine to leave it to Staff, but like others said, you have to actually report it for them to help"


Evrald says, "One day we'll have a Charalin Grand Magnate."

Lorrent wonders to Desna, "I don't understand. It's a small playerbase. Also if the Reeve cannot investigate the other person's character, it's literally no different than if the Reeve didn't exist at all, in your scenario? So why get rid of the Reeve, who can still RP with other characters, even if they alone cannot go after that Brotherhood character?"


Evrald claims, "You wanna talk about stressful."

Nadya states, "Agreed. We do need alts. Hence why I'm only suggesting that people take more time in creation-- Or step back with others (Not removing), if your powerful/political alt needs to do things that your alts get in the way of."


Micah wonders, "Right. So really I think the issue is alts on at the same time?"


Evrald claims, "I don't wanna hear it."


Safir states, "We did have a Charalin Grand Magnate."


Evrald questions, "How'd it go?"


Safir states, "Or maybe it was the rank under. "

Desna questions to Lorrent, "How do you stop the Brother if there is no Reeve to do it because of the risk of crossover?"

Niamh states to Calanthe, "I think the situation she's describing is where people are policing themselves appropriately against alt-crossover, but the byproduct is that because they play so many characters, them bowing out on crossover concerns for this or that means that person is immune - because there's no one else to do it."


Lyana says, "Or just don't bring that alt into the situation, make an excuse, say they cannot make it, so your character the one you are working with at the time, can shine."


Nyna claims, "I guess I dont see the big deal, I have fun on my one character, if I need to blow off steam I go play a video game and give the mud a rest."


Rothgar states, "This might be a situation better suited for the forums, ladies and germs."


Augustus says, "You couldn't stop the Reeve if that Reeve didn't exist because of the alt rule is what Lorrent is saying"


Eirian states, "I think the issue is more active alls, rather than logged in at the same time."


Augustus says, "Stop the Brother*"


Eirian claims, "Alts*"

Lorrent states to Desna, "... The Reeve isn't taking up a Reeve slot. If that Reeve didn't exist, in your scenario, there's no other Reeve anyway."

Calanthe nods at Niamh.

Desna asks of Augustus, "How?"

Azarial states, "This would be about where I assisted 'help lace'. >_>"

Niamh nods in agreement with Rothgar.


Augustus states, "I don't know how to explain that more plainly"


Desna queries, "Is no one hearing me? You don't have a Reeve because it would cause Crossover. How do you stop a Brother if the Reeves can't do it because of crossover?"


Calanthe pontificates, "Part of my suggestion was looking ahead to avoid that. I understand that can't work for what's already in play!"


Evrald exclaims, "Azarial!"


Nadya claims, "And it's counter-intuitive to conflict, if there's no means of actually interacting with people that are a core to your conflict."

Lorrent claims to Desna, "Use other Reeves."


Evrald states, "What's the most deadly poison we got in the system."


Azarial claims, "That would be when you as kinaed."


Evrald states, "Asking for a friend."

Micah asks, "Where's the otherreeves?"


Empena says, "Or ask a non Reeve"

Desna asks of Lorrent, "How? You can't pass them information ebcause it's crossover"


Evrald eyes Eirian.


Nadya queries, "Deadly? Or most interesting?"


Nyna says, "Most drugs are dependant on 'honor system' and thus mostly ineffectual"

Desna nods in agreement with Nyna.


Evrald trails off, "Darn..."


Nadya says, "Most interesting: Dutchess's diet."


Azarial says, "The lethal ones stand a chance to kill you."

Niamh says to Lorrent, "In this scenario there are no others but your friends, and to avoid crossover you all have to stay out of it."


Desna says, "Again, you have a handful of people with a rovolving door"


Azarial says, "It;s a plot thing"


Niamh ponders.

Lorrent claims to Desna, "Send a request to staff, cnote it, and let an NPC pass the information along as would happen ICly while you bow out as a player."


Evrald declares, "How am I supposed to poison my way up the chain of command if I can't kill them silently!"

Evrald hugs Eirian.

Desna claims to Lorrent, "Done that, it doesn't help."


Calanthe states, "I am willing to trust other players to be fair and to do their best to avoid these kinds of situations. Speaking for myself, I also trust me to be fair and work with other players if things come up."

Eirian smiles at Evrald.


Niamh states, "Is everybody okay to move this discussion to the forums? I think it could go on for a long time, and it's difficult for anybody to get their full opinion outlined because things are moving quick."


Steven muses, "Deadly drugs have a toxicity level that has a chance to kill if you dont resist them I think?"


Calanthe claims, "I'm willing to talk with staff for mediation if we can't come to a reasonable agreement on our own."


Eirian declaims, "Yes, to the forums!"


Micah says, "Yeah."


Desna claims, "Because each time somethign comes to staff it's suppsoe to be pushed back to the Pbase, again giving you the same proble,"

Evrald asks of Eirian, "You know I love ya right? "

Lorrent nods at Niamh.


Nadya claims, "Poisons work as follows:"


Nadya states, "If they're lethal, there's a percentage you'll die."

Empena claims, "What's the solution to that besides starting to force people to take some of the open roles before other ones are taken."


Nadya says, "This percentage is negated by CON, and the person helping purge your system of the toxin."


Calanthe states, "There have been cases where nobody was available to handle something, for a number of reasons."

Nadya says, "Determined by MED+HERB."

Calanthe questions, "And there are policies in place for that already, yes?"

Niamh nods at Calanthe.

Steven states, "Time for me to champion con."

Calanthe claims, "A mild example, if no priest is available to do a wedding ceremony, Staff might help by running the code or such."

Eirian grins at Steven.

Nadya claims, "Constitution only gets a +10 total to your survivability."

Nadya claims, "Doctors are by far the most effective."

Steven states, "Dont care. Championing."

Nyna says, "There was a senario with a guildmember back in the day, said Guildmember was actively working against the guild on an alt, but when it was reported, nothing was done because the player stated they only played minimally on the guild character and the situation went on for ages. "

Nadya claims, "HOW DO YOU CHAMPTION CON"

Augustus claims, "God steven youre so healthy"

Calanthe states, "I think in cases where nobody can handle a situation because of conflicts (or unavailability, or whatever!) players can be mature enough to do some basic decision making and FTB."

Steven states, "By visiting the peacock daily."

Desna says, "Staff involvement in guilds to keep the theme on the straight and narrow might be a solution, but Staff doesnt' like to be involved."

Evrald states, "... hah"

Desna claims, "So we come down to the issue of personal OOC preference with one another"


Empena chuckles.


Micah states, "Right. "


Niamh claims, "I would say all in all don't just be frustrated in silence. If you feel that somebody is skirting by without valid IC consequences because their OOC friends/alt crossover characters are the only people around to enforce them (and they can't for policy reasons)... mention it to Staff and we'll see what's up. If it is what it looks like, we'll try and mediate a solution."


Steven states, "To check for malcontents of course."


Micah claims, "I honestly like all of you guys, but I do not trust this idea of players be excellent to each other, it doesn't work out nine times out of ten."

Eirian nods.


Calanthe says, "I can't claim a lot of experience with these situations on my own characters, so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm dismissing it as invalid."


Azarial says, "Logs and notes help quite a bit in documenting things"

Calanthe nods in agreement with Niamh.

Desna nods in agreement with Micah.


Evrald exclaims, "Micah likes me!"


Niamh says, "I'm going to transfer you guys back to the game, but FIRST: We must have a group hug. I DEMAND THAT EVERYONE HUG."


Micah claims, "I've come from quite a few games with that policy and eventually it gets messy."


Niamh hugs.


Azarial claims, "With concrete logs and notes, it makes it easier to chase down what is and is not going on"

Evrald internal self fistbump.


Nadya SCREECHES HORRIFICALLY AT Niamh

Lyana hugs Niamh.


Nyna quits!! No hugging!!

Niamh grins.

Desna hugs Niamh.


Steven strugglesnuggles Niamh.


Eirian asks, "We've been doing it for like 10 years now, no?"

Niamh screams at Steven.

Desna waves.

Micah states, "I want to be struggle snuggled."

Safir states, "Charalin don't hug."

Lyana says, "I will hug niamh so I can feel her wings about my body..oh yeah"

Micah laughs.

Nadya claims, "Strugglesnuggle your local trap doctor today."

Calanthe pontificates, "Thank you for a lovely chat, everyone!"

Evrald hugs Safir.

Eirian declares, "I think we'll be fine -- remember to vote!"

Evrald claims, "Charalin only hug Charalin."

Eirian states, "Helps bring in fresh players."

Evrald claims, "Better solution."

Safir says to Evrald, "I have to kill you now."

Niamh hugs Evrald against his will.

Lyana claims, "Vo..oh right"

Eirian states, "So they can take up those empty roles."

Eirian waves.

Niamh trails off, "Lets see if I can trans everybody back without doing that thing where I put the whole pbase into some random weird room..."

Evrald muses, "Can I just go back to playing with Azarial's tails?"

Lyana giggles.