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Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Bliss wonders, "What's Player Heartbeat?"

Kinaed states, "I have something on the Request Board to raise, let me check whose it was."

Cataleya says, "Goodness"

Empena claims, "I have something I'd like to bring up, though it might come up naturally."

Kiryn states, "Do remember the market taking place a couple hours after tonight's chat. Show up, or the merchants will find you."

Kinaed says to Bliss, "Where players tell us how the game went for them in the last week and anything that's shitting them that they want staff to know."

Cataleya whispers, "I have to show up. Or the merchants will find me."


Bliss gives an understanding thumbs up!


Kinaed claims, "Okay, I've found it. Empena, I have you on the list - please pre-type your topic introduction."


Kinaed muses, "Anyone else have a topic to raise before we get started?"


Kinaed claims, "I'll take the silence as a no, and kick off Staff Updates. "


Norrig says, "I had good, intense and exciting rp. Gladly surprised. "


Norrig says, "And sure go on."


Kinaed claims, "Last week, I wasn't around much. I did facilitate a few things onto the Staff Talking Points, which I hope we can discuss today. Beyond that, I still have Jail Automation and the lore commands on my plate."


Kinaed states, "I think we made some Policy tweaks as well."


Kinaed states, "In particular, we updated HELP RUMOR STANDARDS and HELP RELIGION CONFESSION (Niamh did the latter on my behalf)."


Kinaed states, "Niamh isn't here today, so I can note that she's added a Peddler's Market to allow people to swap non-craftable vnums of items (ie, apple 1234) for craftable equivalents (apple 4321)."


Kinaed states, "That's my update - Azarial, you're up."


Norrig states, "Wot"


Cataleya states, "I saw the market, but.. I am not sure waht it was used for."

Kinaed claims to Norrig, "She's awesome like that."


Azarial states, "I've cleared a few small issues; nothing major. my mom shared the flu with my kids last weekend, and they missed a week of school. -_-"

Kinaed says to Cataleya, "Exchanging non-craftable items for their craftable equivalent where appropriate."


Cataleya claims, "Ah ok"

Kinaed comforts Azarial.


Cataleya says, "Oh I'm sorry. "


Norrig states, "Cool."

Farra declares to Kinaed, "I have something, but I think it's more appropriate to talk to you directly about it, and I'm mostly IAW as I watch a sports event!"


Norrig says, "And sorry Az."


Kinaed states, "I don't see much on the changes board that anyone would notice - it looks like we did fix the guild income issue."

Kinaed claims to Farra, "Okay, please send me a tell after this meeting."

Farra nods.

Kinaed claims to Temi, "You're up. "


Temi says, "Yeah... I've been a sicky myself, so not a whole lot of progress. But before that happened, I did get through the list of zero weight or size items and so those should be properly processed now"

Kinaed says to Temi, "Nice work, that's a huge job."

Kinaed muses, "Any questions for Staff about any of our updates before we move on?"


Temi states, "No changes on containers in general yet, but maybe we'll be able to address that this week."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kiryn says, "I don't think I want to see the size of that list."

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Empena wonders, "So from this point going forward if something has "zero weight" should we assume that's a typo and report it as such?"

Cataleya states, "Changes on the containers? I know they can't hold an unlimited amount."


Kiryn questions, "I do know of a bug where packages are loaded with items inside that won't go back into the container. Has that been fixed/is that being fixed?"


Temi says, "I don't know that it will have fixed everything that already existed, but new stuff should be better"

Kinaed queries to Kiryn, "I'm unaware of that - would you mind raising a typo when you have a chance so we can check it out?"

Kiryn says to Kinaed, "Can do."

Kinaed states to Empena, "As existing objects will be grandfathered, I'd say don't report it. Thank you for the willingness to help, however."

Empena nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed questions, "Okay, if that's all of our Staff Updates, time for the fun part of the OOC Chat - Player Heartbeat! How was your RP this week, folks?"


Azarial states, "It may depend on the package; iirc there is a code generated package mailing that disregards sizes."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.


Cataleya says, "Emotional, so so so damn emotional. Where's the river y'all, in my backyard."

Kinaed smiles.


Justin states, "Campaigning has been way more fun than I thought it would be"

Kinaed states to Cataleya, "I hope that it was great RP either because or in spite of that. "


Bliss says, "Bliss has mainly just been sleeping or wandering around being nervous, but it's been a fun experience so far."

Kinaed exclaims to Justin, "Very glad to hear you've been enjoying campaigning, and that it was fun!"

Talish says to Kinaed, "It was okay, my mage had a fun ending, but could really use the Orderites willing to accept confessions. I kept getting different excuses from all of them which led to me just having my mage go ape."


Norrig says, "I had a very intense week of rp, and I didn't expect any of it."

Kinaed smiles at Bliss.

Kinaed says to Bliss, "Welcome to The Inquisition - I'm glad you're enjoying yourself thus far. "


Paton says, "To be fair, we don't have a single PC priest yet"


Cataleya states, "Rofl"


Cataleya exclaims, "Lebray!"


Cataleya claims, "No no I know, but you know."

Kiryn says, "RP has been amazing. Political RP for the first time in my entire time playing TI, which was both awesome and fun. Now if only my character liked it."

Kiryn grins.


Kinaed chuckles.

Talish says to Paton, "You have inquisitors, per the helpfile you have to be a priest to become an inquisitor."


Empena states, "I had some interesting RP this week, I had a really interested teaching session. Thanks as always to folks willing to come by from pvents and such to get bumps and bruises checked out."

Cataleya claims, "Like I said i've never seen a woman cry so much in my life, now if she'd only stop"


Bliss pontificates, "Thanks! Bliss is trying to get in as a Priest but I haven't found anyone to sponsor her yet! "


Cataleya says, "I have had fun with her, though, tbh, and my other two girls."


Cataleya says, "Well you start off as a novice Bliss I think, and then you move on up to priest."


Farra says, "Phrasing."

Kinaed states to Bliss, "If you check out 'Guildlist Order', it should tell you who is available for you to contact and seek sponsorship from, provided no one just happens upon you."


Paton states, "Acolyte*"


Cataleya claims, "Acalite, sorry was thinking of the merchants and troubadours."


Bliss exclaims, "Ah, thank you Kinaed!"


Azarial states, "Knights can sponbsor you; they are part of the order guild structure"


Farra claims, "Also, I've been a bit less visible in RP this week, been enjoying a new video game that's come out that's been a blast. But I have had a few opportunities to let Farra be her normally cheerful self."


Cataleya coughs.


Norrig nods heavily at Farra.


Justin shudders


Cataleya says, "Uh huh, you are a bundle of smiles, my dear "

Kiryn trails off to Farra, "Never change that character. Ever. Seriously, if I could recommend a specific character concept..."


Kinaed asks, "Anything shitting anyone that they want to make sure Staff know about?"


Norrig claims, "I have already stated my piece of mind at the forums."


Azarial states, "Twenty-four hours in a day is just too damn stingy."


Cataleya queries, "*goes to read forrums* what post is it?"


Farra winks at Kiryn.

Empena claims, "I have to admit that the latest forum discussion is giving me a lot of pause and making me really second guess myself and my RP."


Cataleya trails off, "Wait what? Um..."

Kinaed comforts Empena.


Bliss states, "Just the confusion about swords, but I fixed that up and got some help"


Cataleya says, "I thought your rp was fine, emps."


Justin claims, "I have comments on the race/bid system, but I can save that later"


Farra claims, "Yeah, I was a bit confused as to where 'Offer suggestions' turned into 'Talk junk about certain RP styles'."


Temi finishes abruptly, "By the way - we think that the dropping link issue may be greatly improved"

Temi gives a bronze-framed charm strung upon yellow and orange ribbons to Prisca.


Paton claims, "I am very guilty of interrupted rp and having to dash (sometimes dropping link), and I'm sorry to everybody who has had to deal with that. I'm working on some solutions."


Kinaed claims, "Hmm, I should be honest and say the issue came up this way."


Temi finishes abruptly, "What we thought was highly endemic turned out to be several accounts of the same person, hence the recent banning - though there are some isssues still to look at there"


Cataleya states, "Oh, yeah I was wondering."


Kiryn states, "I work weekday nights now, so I'm a lot more available when there's a lot fewer people on. Which is awesome, unless it's dead at 3:30 AM server time on a Tuesday."


Kinaed says, "A staff member was being harassed multiple times a day to let a player out of phomes, etc."


Cataleya says, "Jeeze"


Farra states, "I would love to see a command for a player to eject a link-dead or logged-off character from their phome."


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Across different characters, and due to login patterns and frequency, we knew it was someone avoiding RP - they'd drop link, wait til someone gave up, then login and ask staff to be let out"

Farra says, "With the obvious implication that abuse will have the command removed from the person.. I don't expect it'd be a real problem."


Kinaed states, "We thought it was multiple people until we found out it was actually the same person with multiple accounts."


Cataleya says, "Dude."


Empena says, "Are we going to get a full list of all the characters that person played? Because I have some suspicions, and it would be nice to know who we shouldn't be looking for."


Norrig queries, "Kina So how many PCs were banned due to this player, in effect?"


Cataleya claims, "Yeah, I'd like ot know too."

Norrig nods at Empena.


Cataleya claims, "Because I think I can gues, but just in case."


Justin says, "I should try that next time poor Justin is stuck in a scene with the GI "


Kinaed claims, "Yes, it's against the rules to have multiple accounts. Anyway, we found out after I contacted the player because we'd talked to them about the same behavior before (on a different account)."


Farra reports Dagerian for Meeting Avoidance.


Cataleya chuckles


Ardan questions, "Did they honestly just not know?"

Kinaed asks of Norrig, "Um... three active, I think, and maybe 7 inactive?"


Cataleya says, "Lord"


Farra claims, "I'm pretty sure it straight up says at account generation you're only allowed 1."


Kiryn says, "You'd have to practically be a grandmaster of RP Avoidance to skip out on Farra. She shows up in your nightmares."

Norrig asks of Kinaed, "Whoa. And no names we could use?"


Farra reports Vlora for Meeting Avoidance.


Cataleya questions, "Ok... so... I am gonna hazard a guess, dorian, Darian and uh... Lyss? And frak yeah I know, right?"

Kinaed questions to Norrig, "What do you mean by names we could use?"


Cataleya claims, "Guesses, purely guesses"

Kinaed nods at Cataleya.


Farra claims, "We mean it'd be nice to know what characters not to expect back."


Kinaed states, "I'd have to do legwork to find out."


Cataleya is not shy about her chars because let's face it, her mispellings are legend.


Cataleya claims, "Like that one."


Kinaed says, "But Cataleya has the right player."


Kinaed claims, "Temi's looking them up now."

Norrig states to Kinaed, "Well it was Darian, but who else? Maybe someone is waiting on his other characters."


Cataleya nods her head. "Yup, I figured."

Norrig nods at Farra.


Cataleya states, "I've played with that person multiple times and every time, every time, they drop link."


Kiryn states, "So basically it sounds like multiple stacking policy violations. Multiple accounts (illegal), which made him harder to catch when he dropped link to switch to an alt (illegal)."


Cataleya claims, "Yeah."

Kinaed states to Cataleya, "It wasn't just towards you. The first time we spoke to the player about the behavior, it was when they were on a specific account. They never logged in with that account again, and apparently spawned a few others to play from."


Temi claims, "We'll get the list later. I can't find the main note I was looking for now."


Cataleya states, "Weird."


Kinaed says, "Anyway, we're sorry if we over-stated the issue, we just weren't watching IPs and just saw the same behavior from 2-3 characters on different accounts and thought it was becoming a cultural issue."


Kinaed claims, "That paired with it being raised in OOC Chat two weeks running... it seemed like it was a real problem."

Prisca nods.


Temi says, "The slow posing complaints are separate, though, and if that's still a major concern, it needs separate attention."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Empena states, "My concern with that is that there seems to be no set standard on what 'slow posing' is. Everyone has a different idea."


Temi nods in agreement.


Norrig wonders, "You think so?"


Temi says, "That is the concern. And we don't want to scold people for different styles. Just adjust everyone to a medium where everybody's happy... if that was possible."


Kinaed says, "In my mind, if your RP partner is happy, it's fine - but I suspect a lot of times RP partners don't want to tell people to their faces when they're not happy."


Farra states, "My personal attitude is that it's less a major concern and maybe something more that can be steered to improve with. Waiting 15-20 minutes every time for a pose during a meaningful scene can be a real pain."


Temi says, "I think there's a clear difference between 'slow' and 'are they even trying to engage with me here'"


Farra states, "For me, I've had Farra go.. Y'know.. on people, and suddenly their emotes go from every 5 minutes or so to every 10-20 minutes."


Justin states, "I tend to think it has to do with the flow of the rp. When someone and I are throwing length limit emotes at each other, I expect them to be slower."


Cataleya says, "I know a person who poses slowly, and by the time I read his or their poses, it is a great story. If you are posing slow then I think it's ok. Just warn people."

Kinaed nods at Cataleya.


Justin states, "When people are taking twenty minutes to write three lines, it's more annoying"

Empena queries, "All I can say is that when I was a brand new player, I was chastised for the way I RPed for it not leading to 'max XP gains' for a regular RP partner. And ... that can lead to a feeling wherein the concern about the scenes is OOC code gains rather than the actual RP in question. But then you have other people who say on the forums that if you don't flesh out emotes enough that you 'aren't worth their time' - so how do you judge that each scene?"


Norrig nods at Justin.


Norrig claims, "It is known I took power nap between a player's emotes."


Kinaed says, "I think if you're a slow poser OR if you're going to be distracted or if you're not in a great place for RP, just tell your RP partner and let them say 'let's postpone this until you're ready' or 'okay, no worries'"


Norrig claims, "Showers, cooked meals, paid taxes."


Bliss If you guys are talking about RP, I've never had that problem so far. I enjoy typing quickly and somewhat short stuff, but that's my style, so...


Ardan claims, "I think people just need to chill. If you like doing longer emotes, great. If you don't, great."

Talish states to Empena, "That tells me whomever chastised you was a bad player."

Kinaed claims to Empena, "It's not an easy thing to figure out."


Farra claims, "I mentioned it on the forums, but I'm pretty staunchly of the opinion that Staff should be severely reprimanding / consider temporarilly banning anyone caught telling someone they aren't "RPing right". Even to the extent of saying 'You need to pose quicker' because people have different expectations. And being rude ruins games like this."


Bliss says, "Er, sorry, used to using 'emote.' Heh."

Temi declares to Bliss, "That's fine!"


Norrig bows to Farra, saying: "I respectfully disagree. Either we have some standards or we have none at all."


Kiryn wonders, "I think part of the problem is figuring out what's taking 15-20 minutes. Like I said on the forums,, I've seen people take 15 and throw up a couple lines. Then you have players who are pretty much an expert at putting a paragraph together in 5. Is the person taking 15 because they're a slow typist? Did they get a phone call halfway through writing? Did they run to the kitchen to pour a cup of coffee?"


Cataleya states, "I'm a fast typer too, but I can type long long emotes and still get in under the five or six minute mark. I usually emote slower when I am doing one on one though, since I can get into my writing better."

Ardan nods at Farra.


Temi claims, "And then there's the second guessing and retyping twenty times."

Temi grins.


Kiryn claims, "Exactly, Temi."


Cataleya says, "Yus"


Kinaed claims, "I don't thing size, length and style of emotes are the topic - speed is the topic."


Cataleya states, "Was that a jab at my spelling? I think it was."


Justin says, "Or when you accidentally delete your twenty line emote"


Kinaed claims, "If someone can write a 20 line paragraph in 5 min, that is awesome. "


Justin claims, "Nothing feels worse"


Cataleya says, "I do speed though. People who rp with me know I am speedy misspeller. "

Temi states to Cataleya, "Nah, I was actually thinking that more in response to Farra's comment about people's emoting getting slower when she gets intimidating."


Empena states, "I think if you start to question why someone takes as long as they do and assume that it's for some off-hand reason you can mind hamsters where you'll work yourself up to potential offense rather than just assume maybe some people type slow."


Cataleya states, "It's ok, I still type fast when she's intimidating, and then delete it because it has a lot of cursing."


Kinaed claims, "But regardless of emote length, if people don't post at least once every 5-10 minutes, then the RP can slow to the point that -everyone- gets distracted and is off with the faeries."


Farra claims, "I mentioned the idea of dropping RPXP gains if emotes are taking longer than, like, 10 minutes to come out. I know there are times in small scenes that's the case for me, and I wouldn't mind the penalty if it helps encourage the population to be a bit quicker overall."


Azarial states, "And the span starts to collapse if you are really slow, killing all gains for all parties"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Temi says, "I try to engage well, but when the other person is taking 15-20 minutes, I definitely start multi-tasking"

Kiryn claims to Farra, "See, I'd probably make my IC excuses and exit the scene if I could rather than take the penalty. We'll catch up later."


Justin says, "Honestly, I haven't seen a problem out in the game yet, and I've talked to most of the playerbase this week. "


Paton asks, "What about adjusting the RPxp pool to require more inpts to reach 'max' than just 1 emote, 1 think, etc.?"


Farra states, "I think the vastly bigger issue was/has been the people dropping out so much lately."

Temi gives a bronze-framed charm strung upon yellow and orange ribbons to Derfel.


Kinaed says, "How many of us actually think this is a problem? Please say aye or nay."


Empena claims, "Nay"

Justin says, "Nay"


Azarial says, "The dropping out issue should be greatly reduced, as temi mentioned"


Bliss says, "Nay"


Vlora states, "Neigh"


Temi muses, "Should we just hold on and see how stuff goes with that hopefully vastly improved then?"


Kiryn states, "Nay."

Farra claims, "I don't think it's a problem losing sleep over. I'd like to see some way to reward well-paced RP or penalize slothful RP, but I'm generally pretty okay waiting since I'll just read or clean between poses."


Farra claims, "Tl;dr nay"


Talish claims, "My biggest problem was when i'd pose, wait for a few minutes, go outside, throw laundry in the wash, make a cup of coffee, come back, still wait for about 5 more minutes, and eventually they would pose like 5 words. And I'd get agitated because I couldn't reach through the screen and grab them."


Cataleya claims, "Well I mean when a sceen gets over crowded, sometimes I just have my char sit at the bar and observe quietly."

Kiryn states to Farra, "So make multiple emotes worth more than a single. Right now, the RPXP system doesn't care if you post 1 emote in 30 minutes or 15 emotes in 30."


Bliss trails off, "Aaaaa I'm excited to RP with more people..."


Kinaed says, "If that's a unanimous 'posting slowly isn't a problem' from all the actively paying attention members of the pbase here, I move to close the issue."

Derfel begins to count their money.

Kinaed nods at Talish.

Empena says, "Though one thing from that thread that I did pick up on and would like to remind is the idea of "join" spots in big scenes might help folks feel less overwhelmed."


Norrig says, "Posting slowly is a problem for me."


Derfel claims, "I abstain. Being that I haven?t logged in, in like 4 months."


Cataleya claims, "Well with me it gets overwhelming because after a while all I hear is yack yack yack... shut uuuup."


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "One thing we can do is give an XP bonus for emoting within a particular period too - carrot instead of stick"

Empena says, "I'd like that a lot better, myself. That way it rewards folks rather than feeling like a punishment."


Cataleya nods.


Kinaed states, "I do think I'd like to move on since our 'problem player' has been removed and it seems like most of the pbase here don't view this issue as worthwhile."


Prisca likes carrots.


Empena nods.


Cataleya claims, "And I think Kir knows what I'm talking about. When the sceen is filled with four or five people in one place."


Norrig shrugs.


Kiryn states, "Again, like I said on forums, I'm a fan of positive reinforcement over negative. If you can't emote more than once in a half hour, set the expectation and move on. If you can, awesome. Here's a cookie and some extra XP."


Kinaed claims, "Okay, thank you guys so much for that rousing discussion. "


Farra is roused.


Cataleya claims, "Iwww, farra we don't wanna know you are roused."


Kinaed claims, "Moving to Player Topics - Empena, you're the first (and currently only one on our list). Please introduce us all to your topic."

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Empena claims, "I've brought this issue up before, but I'd like to bring it forth again as I keep hearing about it as I try to help on Visnet/OOC etc. I'd like to propose an overall consideration that Mercantalism be more the Haggle skill than the 'find out about items before you buy them' skill. There's a lot of vital information that you cannot always discover without a high level. And ... personally, and this could be just me, but sometimes I think the lack of that information being highly available encourages sketchy tooling."


Cataleya claims, "One sec, mom is home."


Temi states, "There are some base things that should always be known on shop appraise, regardless of skill"

Norrig muses to Empena, "Sketchy tooling?"


Farra says, "I like having appraise be tied to the mercantilism skill, but I would like to maybe see some types of information be lowered. Namely 'material' and not requiring 1 rank to see what's in a container sold by a store (necessary when looking at outfits sold by PC tailors)."


Prisca muses, "Ah about appraise- before the change, 'appraise shop' gave 100% info, would it be possible for it to act as if you've got it GM when using appraise shop item?"


Kinaed says, "Not being able to do everything without a skill or a high skill is sort of the value and purpose of skills, albeit I acknowledge that sketchy tooling is an issue - but I'd think the material something is made of, and the slot it sits on, are fairly low level and really all you need."


Temi muses, "Are there certain bits of information that is problematic?"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Empena finishes abruptly, "IE - the number of paper boxes I've seen tooled to be furniture is one thing"

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "As I understand it, Appraise Shop does that."


Cataleya questions, "Wha?"

say also that you can't see if items have a full description.

Empena claims, "Also that you can't see if items have a full description."

Temi claims to Prisca, "The amount of info available by appraise has changed a lot. It doesn't give everything, but there are extras it gives"

Kinaed says to Empena, "Now that I think is someone just skirting doing real crafting."


Farra states, "Being able to see keywords with rank 0 appraise would also be nice."


Cataleya trails off, "Um... well mostly the clothes are just strung, not every piece described..."

Norrig claims to Empena, "LMAO"

Farra wears a crimson Inquisitorial bolero with a wide black-lined brim on her head.

Norrig nods at Farra.


Cataleya eats her hamburger.


Kinaed says, "The person tooling paper boxes into furniture is probably going to have a chat with me."


Norrig grins at Kinaed.


Cataleya questions, "Dude... why would you tool a paper box into furniture?"

Empena says, "It seems to come up most often with things that end up in the Auction House"


Norrig states, "Maybe they'll say it's origami furniture."


Kiryn states, "I think the issue is particularly for new players, mercantilism is a guildskill. If they don't know they should grab it in chargen, they won't. And that means whatever info is available at low levels of the skill is not actually available to those players."


Farra states, "To break rules."


Prisca states, "I see. I'll check with a effort set low sometime soon just to see, after the change it seemed to only use your skill level when using appraise shop"


Cataleya states, "Unless it's like for the homeless. A box made out of or into a chair."


Farra muses, "Mercantilism isn't a guild skill, is it?"


Talish claims, "It isn't."


Norrig states, "Nope."


Cataleya claims, "It's not, no"


Justin claims, "I have a topic too, by the by"


Kiryn says, "... Oh. Well I'm out of date. It used to be."


Farra states, "Still, it IS a skill that you almost 'have' to have 1 rank in, given the 'can't see into shop containers' without it."


Paton says, "I find it a bit strange that I find it more useful for OOC information rather than IC."

Farra states, "Which is frustrating."


Kiryn states, "Exactly. And beyond 50 hours of RP, unless someone teaches you, you're not getting it."


Cataleya pats Farra, then moves hand away lest she bites.


Cataleya states, "And yeah... I have to be taught mercantilism even now."


Farra claims, "It might pool from spamming appraise on an item, but I can't remember."


Temi claims, "We can add certain things to appraise shop as exclusions, especially code necessary sorts of things"


Bliss gazes in awe at Farra's hat


Farra claims, "(With 0 ranks)."


Empena states, "Perhaps an expansion to the tooling policy helpfile or something added to the show recipes on those things, I don't know, but I've seen it more than once, and it makes me wonder how many things whoever that is/was sold without someone noticing."


Cataleya states, "A paper box chair that literally dropps down when you sit on it."


Temi says, "The ability to see the pattern item of a thing might make sense for crafting as well.."

Temi ponders.

Kiryn claims to Farra, "I think appraise pooling was removed when the consider skill was merged with haggle. I do remember reading that somewhere."


Farra claims, "'- Do NOT change the material type through descriptions as material has code effects.' Making paper into furniture is clearly against rules."


Paton says, "I've pooled it on appraising and on buying."


Norrig says, "I pool mercantilism every time I appraise."

Kinaed nods at Farra.


Empena states, "That would allow people to know what to ask someone for, Temi."

Empena states, "I mean because you can figure that out anyways if you know how to use craft_ right."

Kiryn states, "Hm. Interesting."


Ardan wonders, "Uh. what happened for people who didnt have the mercantilism pre-reqs when that merge happened?"


Ardan thinks he may have missed out


Prisca states, "If the coding is too hard to make appraise shop work without skill, maybe a new command for checking things in shop would work that gives similar info, along with extended descs"


Kiryn states, "Now I need to investigate. Coulda swore it didn't. Or wasn't supposed to."


Kinaed states, "I don't think it's too hard - to be clear, appraise shop is the 'browse' command when in a shop, correct? As I understand it, it gives players 100% of info."


Kinaed says, "Right now. If that has changed, I think it's a bug."

Temi states, "No, it doesn't."


Temi says, "It's not supposed to."


Kinaed claims, "If that's not the command I'm thinking, then my apologies."

Farra nods in agreement with Temi.


Temi claims, "It does give certain things guaranteed as extra info, but there's still supposed to be stuff that you have to have knowledge to figure out."

Kinaed says to Temi, "Heh. Do we have a different browse command for stores then"

Temi claims to Kinaed, "No."


Kinaed says, "Please add this to staff talking points."


Kinaed states, "Thanks "


Kinaed says, "Okay, we have about 10 minutes left."


Temi says, "I didn't hear clear thoughts on the problematic bits of info, but that could be my foggy sick brain"

Farra states to Kinaed, "You're thinking about how it used to be; it was giving a bit TOO much info, so it was tweaked. I think the change is good, just some stuff that should be able to be seen seems sensible, esp. at low/zero mercantilism."


Kinaed wonders, "Does anyone else want to raise anything?"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Talish wonders, "Ummm this is sort of related to that, can we get it so living creatures that are purchased can be appraised? it's very frustrating to not know if you are getting what you are needing to get "
Farra claims to Temi, "Material, Extended Descriptions, And contents of containers."


Kinaed claims to Farra, "I don't recall approving a tweak to give less information, but you should know that I'm guilty of not remembering heaps of stuff."


Prisca claims, "Seems like I had something, but it doesn't come to mind at the moment."


Paton says, "Container size."

Farra nods in agreement with Paton.


Bliss declaims, "I have no idea what's going on and have been unable to keep up, but, uh, ok!"


Bliss gives an awkward thumbs up

Temi grins at Bliss.


Farra winks at Bliss.


Norrig patspatsptats Bliss.

Prisca states to Kinaed, "It happened when appraise and haggle where merged into Mercantilism"

Kinaed asks of Talish, "Hmm. What might that look like?"

Farra states to Bliss, "The tl;dr here is don't be a Mage."

Farra nods.


Kinaed questions, "Just extending appraise to mobs and showing certain info based on skill level?"


Vlora nods at Farra

Bliss nods.

Norrig snorts.

Norrig says to Kinaed, "Like what products they hatch."


Kinaed confesses that she is, indeed, a mage.

Empena questions, "What they'll produce maybe?"


Empena claims, "Yeah"


Vlora says, "I mean, if you're a mage though. Let the order know, as you've won a speedboat. "


Bliss says, "Also Farra nice hat I want one too"


Norrig states, "This duck will make brown speckled eggs"


Norrig states, "This Farra will breed little inquisitors"


Prisca states, "What they'll produce- perhaps a rough estimate on stats would be neat too"


Kinaed claims, "It may be difficult to display what products they create for us."


Farra peers at Norrig.


Kinaed states, "(may also be easy) not sure."


Norrig blows a kiss to Farra.


Farra claims, "This Farra bred little Counts."


Temi states, "I think they have descriptions that include some of that info."


Norrig grins


Temi says, "But you can't necessarily see that now"


Kinaed says, "I think this is something we need to work on a bit, it's fairly big, but I'm not sure how to record it - so if no one sees any movement on this item, please bring it up in a couple of weeks time again."

Prisca nods.

Talish says to Kinaed, "Well one thing is animal husbandry animals. If you appraise a mob in a shop, that's a sheep, it would say 'this is a pet, or this is 'a wool-bearing sheep' or this is 'a breeding pair of sheep', coralating with the help livestock animals list, and for horses, ' this seems to be a lithmorran horse' or charali or whatever, for guards and stuff, maybe showing their skills? like 'this guard is proficient in combat' this one says 'this guard is a master in combat'. A lot of imes, getting an npc seems to be a crap shoot."


Farra muses, "Justin had a topic, if we're just cycling the same stuff here?"


Kinaed says, "It will require a specification, but it's a bit ambiguous to me as to what to include."

Kinaed questions to Temi, "Might just be a good spec to assign to you?"


Justin states, "I did, if we're in need "
Temi nods at Kinaed.

Farra claims to Talish, "For horses, you're supposed to include the type in the short desc, same as with materials."

Kinaed declares to Temi, "Okay, please write a spec extending appraise to herds/etc, as per this OOC Chat. Thanks!"

Farra says to Talish, "For guards, veteran guards > not veteran."

Kinaed nods at Talish.


Cataleya says after a long pause in which she eats her hamburger, "This cat hasn't bred anything, try and I'll..."


Kinaed says to Cataleya, "Making me even more hungry."


Bliss wonders, "Wait can you actually hire NPC guards? Ack there's so much to learn"

Cataleya grins.


Cataleya claims, "I just ate, I was hungry."

Bliss falls over

Talish says to Farra, "Listing examples of what could be shown there, as currently you can't appraise things like that in shops."

Prisca waves to Argus.


Cataleya claims, "Yus"


Kinaed wonders, "Okay, we're down to five minutes - I seem to recall someone telling us that there's an event on after this OOC Chat?"

Farra nods at Talish.


Cataleya says, "Argus holy french fries."

Prisca nods at Kinaed.


Justin raises their hand

Farra states to Kinaed, "Justin has a topic :p"


Argus states, "Hello. Sorry I've been so absent, recent."

Kinaed wonders to Justin, "Yes?"


Justin says, "I had a topic, if we have time"

Kinaed says to Justin, "Go ahead and kick it off."


Justin claims, "The fact that the bids process ends on the Sunday of the monthly IP tickover is really silly. For next time, it should either on Saturday or a different Sunday. Instead, the race might be determined by whether Rothgar and my supporters login during a 24 hour period, and it makes it really messy."

Cataleya stops using a bronze-framed charm strung upon yellow and orange ribbons.


Kiryn claims, "Hour or two after the chat, there's a market on at the trade hall. It's also posted on the IC board."

Cataleya wears a bronze-framed charm strung upon yellow and orange ribbons around her left wrist.


Azarial states, "That comes down to when someone starts the bid kickoff for the new seneschal. it is not tied to the calendar"


Cataleya fiddles with a bronze-framed charm strung upon yellow and orange ribbons, staring at it.


Kinaed says, "I think that's something everyone has clear visibility over and can plan ahead for."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.


Farra says, "I'd love to see the bids process expanded a bit to show more info than 'Current Leader', and reward a bit more for sustained support across the bid timeline."


Kinaed says, "It's code ruled and predictable with plenty of lead-up knowledge."

Kinaed claims to Farra, "We may be able to add some info based on the city lore skill."

Farra pontificates to Kinaed, "That'd be a great use for that skill! "


Kiryn claims, "That would rock socks."


Prisca states, "Lore could use some love"


Kiryn states, "I'd train that skill just for that, honestly."

Kinaed nods at Prisca.


Cataleya claims, "Agreed."

Farra nods in agreement with Kiryn.


Kinaed states, "It's on my desk to add some things to the game for lore, like an in-room lore submission."

Cataleya flips a full-length sea green cape with an embroidered white trim back over her shoulder.


Empena states, "I submit lore things but then feel weird when they involve me, but ... I feel like someone should. "


Farra says, "(I'd also love it if city lore could help show more info about support, too, but that's a convo for another day~)"


Kinaed claims, "I'd like to create a better 'leaderboard' than we used to have where lore told people who the movers and shakers were, for example."


Kinaed claims, "We had to nix it because of issues with IP, but I think it can be redone well too"


Farra exclaims, "Oh, and a reminder: Recommend People, People! It makes players feel warm fuzzies, on top of awarding QP / rec level!"

Kinaed nods at Farra.


Prisca muses, "One last topic if we have a second?"


Cataleya has recommended this week, she has to wait till next week to recommend more.


Kinaed questions, "Anyone else have anything to say or add before we reach the top of the hour?"

Kinaed states to Prisca, "Quickly please. We're at the top of the hour."

Kiryn says, "City lore should show all kinds of things about the, you know, city, the higher up you go. Optionally including who the movers and shakers are, if you can do it without spilling too much OOC info."

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.


Farra says, "You can recommend AS MANY TIMES AS YOU LIKE per week; just limited to 1 rec per week per person you're reccing."

Kinaed nods at Farra.


Cataleya says, "I did not know this, I will ... take it under advisement."


Farra claims, "So Norrig can only rec me once a week, alas *dramatic fallover*"


Cataleya has been recomended a lot this week, probably because I'm pa.. Imean sad.


Kinaed opens her ears to Prisca.

Kinaed claims to Cataleya, "Nah, it was for good RP. I know, I read them all. "


Prisca says, "I still have concerns with art recipes involving paper. I'll be distributing these shortly, and wanted to use the paper recipe, but I'll likely be using the paper torn from ledgers instead to prevent people from accidently destroying them."

Prisca gets a 377 calendar from The Amity Cooperative from a wolf pelt bag, fit with leather straps and canine catches.

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "I think you need to take inventory management seriously and start using things like labels. Changes in this space are going to be slow."

Cataleya says to Kinaed, "You seemed to have recommended me too, or someone did."


Bliss declaims, "Oh gosh, I'll have to read over the recommend help file afterwards! I have someone to recommend!"


Kinaed nods at Cataleya.

Farra dul Baildana replies to you, "Pfft. You've never been shameless before "


Kinaed claims, "It was another staff member, I think"


Cataleya blushes a little.


Cataleya trails off, "Yeah, but it was ... surprising/"

Temi says, "I think Niamh sent one. It should be visible in your history"


Cataleya shifts. "I got it...


Cataleya says, "They said anonomous, so I don't know who it was. "

Prisca says to Kinaed, "I just thing it'd be good to address- usually end goods are not used as a item in so many recipes, and there's even a warning in some recipes when it uses end goods."

Kinaed nods at Prisca.


Kinaed says, "I know, and I think your concerns are legitimate, we just won't see quick changes."

Farra declaims to Cataleya, "That means the player sent it via the request board, either because they didn't know your character's name or because they didn't want to be identified!"


Temi claims, "It's a valid concern, but won't be an easy fix, and wedon't think redoing the system is a good change."

Cataleya states to Argus, "Yes ma'am. I will blush uietly now."


Cataleya wonders, "How the hell did farra tra.. you know what?"


Farra peers at Argus.


Cataleya is laughing at herself again. Plese excuse.


Prisca claims, "Okay, thank you. That's all from me."


Kiryn hands Cat coffee. Lots, and lots, and lots, of coffee.


Cataleya zipps around the room.

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "Sorry if I came across salty there."


Kinaed claims, "Just in a hurry to close the meeting."


Kiryn claims, "Speaking of that, you can throw me out if you want, Kin. I don't think I can contribute anything more of value here."


Farra exclaims, "I think we're 6 minutes over anyways!"

Temi nods.


Kinaed claims, "Okay, thank you everyone for attending this week. We hope you have a fantastic week and to see everyone next time. Just a final note: It is Daylight Savings. Please keep an eye out for time shifts for the OOC Chat."

Kinaed waves.


Add on from OOC Channel later:


[OOC] Catweazle: "The teach skill, at level 26+, will NOT teach the 'Teach' skill and I find that is both silly and an in game character advancement blocker! Can that be fixed please, or is there some reason for that being like that? The help files lead me to believe this was possible .. if it is not can the help files please be updated to include this fact so that players are well aware that if they dont take at least one point in the teach skill then they will never learn it! "

[OOC] Azarial: "Your charisma might be inmpacting you"

[OOC] Raspberries: "I believe that was a design choice that teach is only learned by practicing it"

[OOC] Catweazle: "I have 55+charisma "

[OOC] Raspberries: "Mentions it in the help file"


[OOC] Raspberries: "'Teaching as an ability is NOT increasable by any means other than use.'"


[OOC] Obelisk: "If I remember correctly, 55 cha means you can teach 55% of the ranks in a skill via teach"


[OOC] Catweazle: "Yes but its not explicit that if you dont take one point in it that you will NEVER learn it "


[OOC] Raspberries: "You can learn it from 0! I did."


[OOC] SilverMoon: "Omg"


[OOC] Catweazle: "Wow i was not aware of that! Thank you!"


[OOC] Kinky: "Starstar, if you're happy to add on to the OOC Chat... I'll also raise the Personal Board topic I forgot."


[OOC] Starstarfish: "On that topics, I'd like to bring up that I wish you could control the level you are teaching someone to more aptly. Granted, people could still practice/learn on their own but ... RP wise it can be a bit weird to know what to RP teaching someone when you have no idea what level they'll pool to. That's more of a thing in skills with crafts."

[OOC] Raspberries: "You could ask them to do a -skill emote to judge level before starting to teach"


[OOC] Kinky: "Okay, I had a post from a player on the fact that guilds function best with 2 GLs, but there seems to be a reluctance from GLs to get 2nd GLs in - in some cases to the extent that 2-3 people want the 2nd GL role, but the main GL remains 'waffling'. The player proposes that staff give a hard deadline of 2 RL weeks to get a 2nd GL or staff choose."


[OOC] Kinky: "Or goes to application."


[OOC] Catweazle: "Well that fixes that issue i had .. thanks for the help with that everybod! "



[OOC] Kinky: "The player says goes to application, but staff would choose first."


[OOC] Kinky: "I'm personally happy to add a reminder to GLs to fill their 2nd GL roles to our weekly operational rhythm."


[OOC] Raspberries: "Might be neat to have an informal race based on approval rank"


[OOC] SilverMoon nod nods.


[OOC] quanin: "I think it depends on how the GL's handling it. Did they not assign a second GL, but hand a non-GL player leader access? Maybe they're training for that second GL."


[OOC] Kinky: "And if primary GLs fail to do so, we'll just poll the guild to see who wants it, put them in, and if no one wants it or is eligible, go to apps. I do think it's shitty to have to do that though."


[OOC] quanin: "Isn't that why promote <name> leader exists?"


[OOC] Kinky: "Well, quanin, unofficial 2nd GLs are welcome to help out, but a guild needs an official 2nd GL for structural purposes, so I view leaving that role unfilled as a dereliction of a GL's duty."


[OOC] Starstarfish: "I think the difficulty is that at times, it can be better to have a position take a bit longer to fill than have it filled by someone who gets in, is a flash-in-the-pan makes a bunch of exciting/controversial stuff and then disappears. IE - interest in a GL role doesn't always transition into sticking with it."


[OOC] Catweazle: "I agree fully on the Staff resolving such issues after a two week time frame.. thats is 2months in game time and is well enough time for the player/character to make up their mind!"


[OOC] Kinky: "Promote <name> leader exists to allow GLs to nominate even more people to assist them, but does not replace the official IC role of a 2nd GL."


[OOC] Kinky: "On that note - what I think I'll do in the short term is contact all GLs without a 2nd GL and ask them to resolve the situation. I'll ask Az to add this to my weekly reporting, and staff will start to enforce 2nd GLs as an operating rhythm with a 2 week grace period for primary GLs to work on it. THere are legitimate reasons a 2nd GL can't be found, so we have to account for those cases."


[OOC] Catweazle: "Could code be added that takes the 1st person to be promoted [first come first serve basis] gets automatically the offical 2nd GL position unless overuled by the GL [must cnote the reasons why] . That way its coded and not ambiguous and happens automatically."


[OOC] Raspberries: "Looks like we're okay except Bards and thieves at the moment"


[OOC] Starstarfish: "Sometimes the difficulty is that the people interested are OOC interested, but for IC reasons that char can't be promoted. "

[OOC] Kinky: "No, because some people cannot be GLs for heaps of reasons - and also, someone may not want to be the next GL. The way staff handle this sort of thing is a post to the guild saying 'There's no 2nd GL, the threshold for this is past. Anyoen who wants the role, please edit this post in the next 24 hours and staff will take the person in 'eligible, highest ranking, and longest membership' order."


[OOC] Raspberries: "From the outside, it seems like there should be a little more promotion in general in a lot of guilds."


[OOC] Catweazle: "Ahhhhh ok ... that makes total sense! Thanks for that information! "

[OOC] Kinky: "I agree, Raspberries. I think some GLs are really good, and others are ... um... lazy bumps of space. That said, I think people also need to get used to the idea of making an effort to be visible to their GL for the right reasons and potentially even asking for a promotion."


OOC] Raspberries nods. Effort is good! just for progress in general behind the scenes stuff, maybe we should consider a promotion at every n OOC months good practice. We've had so many promotions from close to entrant level to GL over the years


[OOC] quanin: "The actual policy is unless IC reasons, promotions need to be at least every month. I think the outside is two months, all OOC timeline. Again, unless something like you've ticked off your GL IC."


[OOC] Kinky: "That's not quite true - promotions are supposed to be reviewed on an OOCly monthly basis, but people actually are expected to do something RP-wise for their guild, not just get promoted because they were breathing."

[OOC] Kinky: "Anyway, yes, the policy is that GLs should review everyone in the guild for promotion at least once per OOC month, regardless of what they decide - which could be to leave them as they are or to promote them (if they haven't already)"

[OOC] Skookum: "I was told that GLs cannot promote people that are still dual guilded (were prior to the change) above a certain rank, is that still correct?"

[OOC] Kinky: "Yes."

[OOC] Skookum: "Thanks!"

[OOC] quanin: "Does that only apply to the secondary guild, or both?"

[OOC] Kinky: "Both."

[OOC] Catweazle: "The other issue i have is running around to find RP and using the 'where' command and I get there and the other player suddenly shoots off [flees] or logs off or sends a tell that they are not ready for RP etc. and I find this highly frustrating and I would like to remind everybody to use the 'rp' command to turn off the RP "where' code so I am not interrupting you when your doing private/secret stuff ok. "

[OOC] Kinky: "Yes, please be available for RP if idling in a place with RP on."

[OOC] Kinky: "Not always avoidable if you're idling for RP for 30 min, then someone walks in during minute 31 though, so likewise, it might not be because you have bad breath if people do leave."