Log of OOC Meeting 2018-07-07

[Taunya]

Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Prisca says, "Nothing pops to mind at the moment."

Theia muses, "OH! was there an item? did I miss it?"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, I'll take the extended silence as a no, and carry on. If anyone things of a topic, let us know."

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Theia.

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Vlora.

Kinaed states to Theia, "I don't have one at the moment."

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Ivar.

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Lethanavir.

Theia claims, "Woo hoo"

Prisca doesn't get the reference.

Lethanavir says, "Sweet"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, kicking off Staff Updates - last week, I didn't do much. Maybe some request approvals, recommends, etc."

Theia says, "I think it's denoting the Gambit going on sort of Prisca."

Kinaed says, "This week I still have automated jail messaging, which I might actually do something about since it's been on my plate for a year - and nothing else to my awareness."

Kiryn claims to Prisca, "Yeah, kinda gambit related."

Kinaed says, "That's it for me, Azarial, you're up."

Kiryn says to Prisca, "Look at it."

Prisca queries to Kinaed, "How about the forum sorting?"

Kinaed says to Prisca, "I thought the other staff handled that and I was off the hook."

Azarial claims, "I've been plugging up problems in the new nanny state machine; that is looking rather robust now.  Otherwise, a few typos and a crash kin found last night.  plus the usual cleanup and adjustments for the latest in my 'best practices' mock up."

Kinaed flutters her eyelashes at Prisca. "Guess not. I'll get back to it, thanks for the reminder."

Prisca smiles at Kinaed.

Azarial says, "Though I am not sure if I added a spell this week, or last."

Azarial shrugs eloquently with more tail than shoulders.

Kinaed claims, "Let me check the changes board."

Kinaed states, "Looks like we added a couple of spells, yes, but I can't tell if it was this week or last."

Azarial claims, "Should hvae been one, and moved a few others around.  iirc."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Kinaed claims, "Affects void, people."

Azarial states, "Spells are hard enough I try not to do too many at once. >_>"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, nothing else major. A few bug fixes, looks like."

Kinaed queries, "Okay, Niamh, care to give us your update?"

Niamh says, "Did plot stuff just about all week. Kept the boards as clear as possible, processed recommends, and such."

Niamh says, "That's it for me."

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Kinaed claims to Niamh, "I got a tell reminder to announce the changes to void to the mage base, particularly because the new spell replaced an old one and spells were shifted around."

Kinaed questions to Niamh, "Can you handle that?"

Niamh muses, "Sure. How were spells shifted around?"

Niamh trails off, "I'll ask after the meeting..."

Kinaed says to Niamh, "It's on the change itself."

Kinaed states, "I've also received an anonymous topic in a tell, which I'll raise when we get to player topics."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, that's it for Staff Updates - just to add on, for a bit of clarity, Auspex was moved to a different circle, and a new low level spell added in its place."

Theia claims, "Ooo... Auspex sounds pretty."

Vlora bares her sword.

Theia claims, "Pretty magely... burn it."

Kinaed states, "We'll make proper announcements soon. We normally do that when testing is done; that's when help files happen and changes get closed."

Theia coughs.

Vlora sheathes her sword.

Kinaed exclaims, "Okay, so... next part of the OOC Chat! Player Heartbeat!"

Kinaed rubs her hands together, "How was the game in the last week, folks?"

Theia says to Vlora, "Careful with your Sword... Prisca still has her leeches out."

Lethanavir claims, "Fantastic, found out today was the least active I have ever seen this game as"

Prisca states, "Going okay in Prisca's corner, getting a little merc RP going."

Theia says, "Game has been decent. I got to RP with a noble and be all fancy shmancy and stuff"

Lethanavir states, "But rp is always good"

Kiryn states, "Couple minor annoyances but otherwise good. The annoyances couldn't really be helped, but the potentially loosely related RP has been decent."

Azarial has transferred Arkenn.  [OOC]

Kinaed has transferred Arkenn.  [OOC]
Kinaed has transferred Arkenn.  [OOC]

Kinaed states, "Oops."

Arkenn claims, "I'm so loved I get moved twice."

Kinaed states, "We're talking about how the game was for folks this week."

Dagerian states, "Well."

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Arkenn.

Kinaed wonders, "Anything shitting anyone that they want to make sure staff know about?"

Arkenn finds a corner to skulk in an smoke his pipe weed and complain about the lack of good coffee.

Dagerian says, "I had a rant prepared for this, but I think I'll keep it brief."

Kinaed nods at Dagerian.

Arkenn says to Kinaed, "There isn't enough good coffee in the city. The coffee I have been provided isn't up to Montford standards."

Arkenn declaims, "It's an Outrage!"

Kinaed claims, "Fair point."

Kinaed says to Niamh, "Check how much quality coffee we have on grid."

Giles grins.

Azarial asks, "...string the coffee you want to drink?"

Kinaed politely peers at Dagerian. 

Dagerian claims, "Given that I don't think it's really a fault, but it would be nice to see more involvement. It feels for me at least I mill about pretty aimlessly and just hear rumors, hear things, see the same people, speak the same subjects. It's so realistic that it sometimes can be boring."

Kinaed nods at Dagerian.

Kiryn questions to Vlora, "You should arrest him for insulting Lithmorran coffee. I mean isn't there a law?"

Kinaed states, "We get a lot of people complaining about that, actually."

Vlora claims, "Lithmorrans get their coffee from Farin"

Kinaed states, "'tavern RP' usually happens to people who aren't on or involved enough to be in the underbelly of what's going on."

Arkenn says to Vlora, "You should arrest him for looking funny. I mean isn't there a law against looking funny? He could be a mage."

Kinaed queries, "Is there any way we can change that for people?"

Vlora says, "Arkenn is correct. "

Kinaed states, "I mean, in a broad sense. We had the matchmaker code as one way to try to get people involved with one another."

Azarial questions, "Close a tavern, so that more are in a loaction?"

Arkenn trails off, "We have many taverns..."

Ivar states, "Hm"

Arkenn says, "Of them... only two see use regularly."

Arkenn says, "A third gets some business rarely."

Lethanavir claims, "I use them a lot"

Ivar states, "I think part of that is players not driving enough conflict right now to go off of."

Prisca says, "Perhaps some more staff-run plots that aren't so big"

Yeto says, "The usual response is 'go out and create RP'"

Kiryn queries, "So many taverns that they aren't even all being used. Does anyone even go to the Three Cups anymore?"

Kiryn grins.

Arkenn claims, "Queens and Bear get most business. Blind Horse has some as does Bluebird"

Ivar claims, "I mean, we've got the baronial council stuff going on"

Kinaed states, "Well, I think it has more to do with people who aren't deeply involved, linked, or friends, don't tend to show their warts to other people."

Arkenn trails off, "The others don't really get used...."

Dagerian states, "I don't know, more involvement, or at least more on display for freeman people to see and experience. I think there would have been a different mood and feel had these crazy past awesome stories happened in the public eye versus confined to certain player archetypes."

Kinaed nods at Yeto.

Arkenn claims, "There's the Golden Coin and The Three Cups"

Prisca nods at Dagerian.

Kinaed nods at Dagerian.

Ivar claims, "But, freeman folks haven't been doing a whole lot of bad guy stuff, etc, to drive conflict on I think"

Arkenn says, "Neither get any RP in them which is sad."

Kinaed queries, "We do have awesome RP in TI, so how do we make it more accessible in a way that's relatively natural for everyone involved?"

Kiryn states, "The Three Cups is, or was, player-owned, so that's even more sad."

Azarial wonders, "Are they peritted to, or do they get dogpiled as soon as they start something?"

Arkenn states, "It still is. The person who owns it, logs in, pays taxes then logs out."

Arkenn says, "She's been inactive for close to a year now I believe."

Kinaed says to Ivar, "See... I think you're actually wrong about that. Sitting up here, not being terribly involved and pretty far away, but having access to cnotes and rumors, etc... I think people are doing just plenty."

Arkenn says, "But she makes sure it stays paid up."

Lethanavir states, "I generally go to the same old places and don't really meet new people."

Ivar claims, "Well that's cool then. I've had plenty of stuff myself but I figured if there were complaints about it, maybe that stuff was too hidden."

Niamh nods at Lethanavir.

Ivar claims, "And too 'safe'"

Kinaed wonders to Lethanavir, "Is that a failure on your part of the system's, do you suppose? Or are you at a point of contentment?"

Kiryn claims, "Also: I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it's largely a timing thing. I work nights, so this means I'm usually on evenings/nights atm. Only person I see online with any degree of regularity is Prisca."

Kiryn grins.

Prisca nods.

Kiryn trails off, "I mean I'm online right now because this is when I'm usually awake, and we're doing the OOC chat, so..."

Dagerian says, "I'll admit, I'm still getting used to these cnotes thing. Admittedly I need to improve, but it's hard when you're not really involved in much more than supporting this, or that. But then you're left behind at the results of said thing."

Azarial states, "Hopefully the cahrgen changes will help keep new players engaged and in the game."

The alertness begins to fade away.

Dagerian queries, "But, if nothing is going on what do I put there to update?"

Kinaed nods at Dagerian.

Kinaed says, "Well, I think Yeto's response is a tad correct, just not the full story."

Kinaed says, "If nothing is going on, sometimes you just get creative and make something happen."

Lethanavir claims, "I'm just don't like going to new places...then I don't see the new people. I often wait at a tavern for people to come to me if they like because I'm just like that. Its more my fault then anything"

Kinaed states, "For example, I was in some tavern RP a few years back and was bored, so I just stabbed my GL and walked off leaving him in a pool of blood."

Arkenn muses, "The go out and create rp?"

Azarial claims, "....I can believe that."

Prisca states, "Think there's room for more inclusive staff-run plots? Doesn't have to be Urth-shattering, just some light fun stuff now and then that everyone can get in on."

Kinaed states, "I mean, that's probably not the right thing for everyone to do, but it does show that you can create RP."

Kinaed states to Prisca, "I'm not sure we have the manpower for it, but I'm happy to raise it on Staff Talking Points."

Arkenn states, "I mean... I almost stabbed someone the other night."

Arkenn says, "Not that I condone such an act."

Arkenn muses to Kiryn, "Right?"

Kiryn claims, "I'm actually thankful to whoever it was started the gambit thread. I came back from a busy weekend with a few general ideas of what I wanted to accomplish, but I didn't think any of it had staying power. Now? Staying power. Love it."

Kiryn claims, "Would ahve preferred to be here before it started so I could maybe twist it a little, but hey, can't win everything."

Ivar states, "The Baronial stuff is... surprisingly inclusive if people think of creative ways to do so."

Kinaed says, "I recently suggested to someone complaining about everyone being behind closed doors and boinking instead of coming out to RP that they show up and knock on the door with a flimsy excuse about a letter from a secret admirer. :P"

Giles laughs.

Azarial says, "Eavesdrop to find the best moment to interrupot."

Kinaed says, "So I guess what I'm saying is that - maybe staff have a part to play, but your own creativity is a welcome approach too."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Prisca nods.

Arkenn says, "I... didn't know that was a command."

Kinaed queries, "Yeah, does anyone actually eavesdrop?"

Kinaed says, "I hear we have a lot of commands. *grin*"

Niamh has gone AFK.

Kinaed queries to Niamh, "Add a ti-fact about eavesdropping?"

Azarial says, "'help random' will teach you about more than you dreamed we have."

Lethanavir says, "I don't know how, when I started, it says I don't have the instrument for it"

Prisca claims, "I used it once, the chance of detection is really high like most sneaky stuff"

Kiryn says to Kinaed, "See, I think people are also forgetting what I think is TI's first or second culture rule. If you're online and have whererp on, you're rP available. Yeah, I sit in my office when I'm at work. but I never turn whererp off. Want me? Knock. Or if you can't get in, messengers are amazing."

Arkenn says, "Az. I got stuck in a loop on help random one time"

Arkenn states, "It ran me through the funny comments section"

Arkenn trails off, "Help random "helpfile go eat a sandwich" ...."

Kinaed claims, "Hmm. I can have a look at detection rates."

Azarial says, "Well, it is random.  rather like travel"

Niamh has returned from AFK.

Niamh nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Kinaed claims, "I wish we had a better ability to test when a person is publicly accessible in game or in a private place or not."

Prisca nods at Kiryn.

Prisca nods at Kinaed.

Niamh says, "If it has the phome 2room flag, could auto-hide it on where."

Kinaed says, "Then we could do a lot of shiny things with code to know whether people are hiding or not."

Kiryn says, "Also, useless trivia (unless that's changed), but turning whererp off actually makes you immune to messengers. Which is also why I keep it on. I'm a GL (for now). I *should* be available."

Azarial states, "If players cannot find you, messenegrs cannot find you."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Prisca says, "Just a reminder, if you aren't in a position to RP, please turn off whererp. I often head somewhere, just for the person to leave when I show up"

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Niamh nods in agreement with Prisca.

Kinaed says, "That's just common courtesy."

Ivar claims, "Wait"

Ivar asks, "Having whererp turned off makes messengers not able to find you?"

Kiryn nods at Ivar.

Ivar says, "I could have sworn I've gotten messengers while I had mine off"

Niamh claims, "It used to. Stopped being the case a year or so ago."

Kinaed claims, "Albeit I have had situations where I was free for half an hour, hung out for 29 min, and a person walks in just as I have to go get my kids from school. That's life to a degree."

Niamh states, "Same with whoinvis."

Kiryn says, "If you were in a public area, it forces whererp on whether you have it off or not."

Arkenn says, "Just find a room that doesn't allow messengers"

Azarial says, "Public locations can override whererp"

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Arkenn trails off, "Hmmm..."

Kinaed states, "That said, when that happens, I usualyl say something like "So sorry, I have to run and get my kids" rather than just quitting out."

Dagerian trails off, "But yeah, so, I guess that's really all I had. Nothing huge. Just feels like I repeat days... lol"

Kinaed nods at Dagerian.

Niamh comforts Dagerian.
Prisca nods at Dagerian.

Kiryn states, "Eh. I tried to send a messenger to Dagerian once when he had whererp off and it told me to go pound sand. Nicely, of course."

Kinaed trails off, "Well, I do recommend ... HELP THINGS TO DO... "

Niamh says, "I'll get back to running littler plots that are friendlier to the majority when this has cooled off."

Kiryn claims, "Of course eh could have had AFK/IAW on as well. I dunno. who doesn't show that so I'm guessing."

Kinaed says, "And in the meantime, everyone - Dagerian is looking for some meaningful RP, so if anyone is willing to take him under their wing, please consider it."

Prisca muses to Dagerian, "Up for running a ST by the way? been hoping to run the mercs as sort of a ST guild"

Dagerian claims to Prisca, "Uh... I need to learn all those new commands. I think i've done it once in the past"

Prisca says to Dagerian, "There's a handy-dandy tutorial zone now,"

Azarial states, "Mind, you don;t need all of the commands to run a good story."

Prisca nods in agreement with Azarial.

Kinaed says, "Okay, if we're done chatting about our week, we can move to Player Topics."

Kinaed says, "I received one in a tell."

Theia says, "Not it."

Kinaed states, "I'd like to weight in a 'complaint' of my own about players retiring their characters after they do stuff but then things don't go their way. I don't want to be impolite so I won't give any names."

Vlora claims, "Not sure what we're supposed to say to that"

Prisca states, "Hmm, this is starting to sound like the OOC chat before last."

Kinaed states, "I replied to the person who sent a tell that staff noticed this too and have recently updated our liquidation policy that we won't be accepting liquidations before or after dramatic RP of any sort to let things settle down."

Niamh rubs face.

Azarial states, "Not that we can force them to login and deal wiht the results."

Ivar trails off, "I'd just like to note this here about that..."

Arkenn says, "Just not liquidate them until everything has settled."

Kinaed spreads her hands, "I prefer to let people raise their issues and concerns... but if we as a group feel that things are too cattynasty, and want to drop the topic, I'm happy to do that."

Kinaed nods at Arkenn.

Azarial wonders, "So I guess...don't stir up shit if you;re prepared to get spattered?"

Niamh states, "Probably is."

Azarial states, "Er, not prepared."

Azarial states, "...nope, good battery in keyboard.  must be a caffiene shortage instead."

Ivar says, "Mm nvm, nothing to say"

Arkenn claims, "It seems like it's entirely about things that happened recently... I've noticed a string of liquidations lately, some seem connected and some don't."

Kinaed queries, "Keeping away from 'complaining' - do we need to add anything to liquidation policy, or are we cool with that for now?"

Dagerian states, "I agree on that don't go trying to make a dramatic RP move and make a new character when you fail."

Arkenn claims, "So I have a topic to bring up then if I can. I'll type it out if that's ok."

Azarial states, "Sometimes failing a big move is better rp than succeeding."

Kinaed says to Arkenn, "Go ahead and start typing, but hold onto it until called so we can finish this one :)"

Kiryn nods in agreement with Azarial.

Kinaed states, "One thing that's come up a couple of times recently is that TI can be very stressful for people."

Prisca claims, "Maybe a little more emphasis that running things to the end gives a better bonus for death xp than liquidating does"

Azarial claims, "Executions do pay more."

Kinaed states, "A lot of our liquidations aren't about people making big moves and trying to duck out of RP, but rather about OOCly not coping with the stress levels that TI can create."

Niamh nods.

Ivar states, "It's not TI that can be stressful exactly. It's attitudes revolving around bruised egos."

Kinaed says, "I'm just not sure if there's anything we can do about that."

Kiryn claims, "Everything pays more if done well. it's called recommends."

Kiryn grins.

Ivar claims, "There isn't."

Azarial states, "Third person seems to help with distancing, but it comes down to not being so emotinally invested in your character that it impacts you negatively when RP turns sour."

Dagerian claims, "I'm never stressed."

Kinaed claims to Ivar, "I don't know, I'd disagree. This last couple of weeks, people have tried to bully me directly, and I've personally found it stressful."

Dagerian states, "I will happily trade them boredom for their stress."

Ivar states to Kinaed, "And those people are jerks."

Ivar says, "Who have no human empathy."

Kiryn says to Kinaed, "RP is stressful. Nonconsentual RP is more so. Things are going to happen. You're not going to like those things, but then you should have known that going in."

Kinaed claims, "There's a review up on TMC that says I should have a stroke and fingerpaint for the rest of my life to improve TI - albeit that one was kinda funny."

Prisca chuckles.

Azarial claims, "....first time i've heard that before."

Ivar states, "Ugh, I saw that. It's absolutely ridiculous that someone would stoop so low as to say something so terrible about someone over a fucking happyfuntime game"

Kinaed claims to Azarial, "Well, it does make me worry about how toxic the pbase is where I can't see it."

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Kinaed states, "But it's happening, and I think that's part of people's stress."

Azarial states, "Yeah, I wonder about that too.  how many are still slipping away instead of reporting it wiht logs."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Dagerian says, "So, they should seek RP from different people"

Kinaed claims, "Anyway, I'd encourage anyone who is dealing with crazy spite, let a staff member know. We don't want to lose players due to general toxicity."

Kinaed has transferred Edwin.  [OOC]

Niamh gives a frazzled doll with mutiple arms to Edwin.

Kinaed says, "Okay, for the moment, I think we'll leave liquidation as is - no dramatic ones, sorry if this puts pressure on people."

Kinaed claims, "About the stress and spite side of things - please alert a staff member if someone is behaving that way towards you."

Kinaed questions, "Okay, Arkenn, you had a topic?"

Arkenn says, "So with the string of liquidations we've had recently, there has been a shortage of Merchants leaving a few merchants to be in charge of basically everything merchant made. This leaves those merchants well off but in a pickle if they want an alt to buy something. We only have 1 of a lot of things right now... To buy Jewelry at the moment you go to Tamira. To buy Clothing, Yeto. To buy Blacksmithing, Riette. To buy Leather, Riette or Yeto. Leather is one of the only things taken care of by multiple people. I don't want to suggest people just make alts to fill in those slots because it seems wasteful, but as it stands if Person A isn't a Merchant but has the alt that is only capable of making Perfume. Does that mean Person A can never buy perfume until someone else makes a merchant? How can this be handled until we have more people to do things?

 Thought I would throw this out there but Woodworking is currently only handled by Ivar. so if Ivar's alt wants to buy something made of Wood... What does he do? He can't buy from Ivar since that would be crossover. Same with Tamira's Alt buying Jewelry, or Yeto's alt buying Clothing. Sorry if it feels a bit jumbled, as I said the topic is one I just got up."

Arkenn pants.

Arkenn claims, "Got it coach."

Kinaed claims, "I'd say if there's a gap, you can usually buy and retool an item."

Kinaed claims, "That's why retooling exists, actually - to plug merchant gaps."

Kinaed says, "It's more expensive, but it's there."

Azarial claims, "Npc shops should cover most of the common stuff."

Ivar says, "I'm Leather also, actually"

Arkenn states, "See."

Arkenn claims, "Leather is common."

Arkenn trails off, "Everything else is specialized though..."

Kinaed states, "If you can't find something on grid, I'd say Request Board - staff can either help you in a single instance or evaluate if we need to open/upgrade the grid on the whole to include whatever is missing."

Ivar states, "There's also another woodworker shop that makes higher level stuff than I do"

Prisca claims, "There's also custom items for QP, put those points to use :)"

Arkenn muses, "Really? You mean the nightpine one?"

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Ivar says, "Aye"

Ivar claims, "That's not me"

Arkenn says, "Nightpine is NPC owned"

Arkenn says, "To my knowledge"

Niamh states, "It's not, no. It's PC owned."

Arkenn queries, "Oh?"

Kiryn says, "Unfortunately a lot of that stems from what I'll call externalities. For example, a lot of people who would be merchants and something else can't do that now. Combine that with the fact everyone on the seeker list for Merchants right now is inactive."

Prisca says, "Nightpine is PC"

Prisca claims, "You can write nightpine for it."

Ivar claims, "No, a big part of merchants not being big is that running a shop and keeping it going is a lot of work."

Arkenn declares, "Never met the owner... Unless it's Aios. Then that dirty bird is hiding from the old general store to make that!"

Ivar claims, "And a ton of commitment that folks don't realize at first"

Arkenn trails off, "I mean..."

Ivar says, "It doesn't really feel like something bound to not being able to multiguild"

Arkenn claims, "I've opened and run a shop in the past."

Ivar states, "Because this was an issue long before that."

Arkenn states, "The main thing you need to do is advertise with Rumors when it's open and stuff once you have stock and sit in it with whereRP on"

Arkenn claims, "If you stock it with good loot, they will come to try and loot."

Niamh nods.

Prisca says, "Remember that after you get started, you can hire folks to run things for you. I'd have given up a while back if I were running Amity on my own, haha"

Ivar says, "Rumors and Advertisements for sure"

Arkenn wonders, "I've made a Leatherworker's shop in the past and after my initial investment of XP into purchase silver 3000 total I think?"

Arkenn states, "I never purchased silver again"

Kiryn claims, "A lot of it is also down to the just discussed liquidations. I also won't name names, but some of the questionable liquidations in recent months had merchant alts. some of those have also liquidated alts."

Arkenn says, "Because it legit paid for itself and gave me close to 1000 silver a week as long as I kept it stocked with armor, outfits and cloaks."

Arkenn states, "With notes about customer leatherwork available for saddles and outfits"

Kinaed claims, "Honestly, I don't know if liquidation plays into that. If a person wants to leave, and that's why they liquidate, not allowing them to liquidate won't result in them playing a character, just abandoning it."

Arkenn states, "We had... 3 merchants liquidate recently I think. With them came some of the coverage that is now gone."

Arkenn trails off, "But I'm just a crazy old man of a floleaf junkie..."

Arkenn claims, "Oh Speaking of which."

Arkenn says, "Smoking the Smoking Floleaf doesn't build tolerance"

Kiryn states to Arkenn, "Exactly, though technically one of them had left the guild before liquidating. Others just left for various reasons probably going back to previous recent controversies all over other OOC chats."

Vlora claims, "I'll add on to the point about liquidating, as a more quality of life sort of thing. Can I ask that if people do intend to liquidate or intend to stop playing, they either make the decision to do it or don't and stop considering it every other day. Sometimes, its hard not to take it personally when someone you RP with is in a state of perpetually liquidating, and can be hard to invest any time in someone when you don't know if they're going to be there tomorrow."

Kinaed says, "Right, but ... if they didn't liquidate, blocking the liquidation won't make the play the character, it just results in abandoned chars. Which I suppose we can just leave. Maybe liquidation in itself is a problem."

Niamh nods at Vlora.

Arkenn trails off, "As a side note... I've gone through 3 pouches of smoking floleaf and it doesn't even say 'none'"

Kinaed nods at Vlora.

Ivar claims to Vlora, "Amen to that"

Kinaed wonders, "On the whole, is liquidating something we should allow?"

Ivar claims, "Threatening liquidation isn't gonna get you anywhere and constantly saying it is just gonna cause you to blackball yourself"

Ivar says, "Yes it is."

Dagerian trails off, "Honestly..."

Prisca says, "Hmm."

Ivar says, "I feel it should be allowed."

Niamh says, "It's more realistic to be able to retire a character via liquidation than have everyone ever die in some forced way, I suppose."

Dagerian wonders, "Does it matter if they liquidate or not?"

Prisca nods in agreement with Niamh.

Arkenn states, "I don't see it as an issue as a whole. But not as a means to just "oh well, I don't like where this is going""

Yeto states, "I think liquidating is fine. Most of the times when you're done with a character or ready to move on, there's no desire to create some way to find a death."

Arkenn states, "And jump ship"

Dagerian states, "Help liquidation"

Ivar claims to Dagerian, "If they can't liquidate then they won't be able to make use of the xp they've invested unless they have the character die in some fashion"

Dagerian claims, "Oops"

Azarial claims, "My problem with liquidation is when someone gets cold feet after the fact.  that makes my life difficult."

Niamh nods.

Arkenn claims, "More a means of "well, this character has finished their goals, or cannot continue to their goals as a whole anymore""

Ivar states, "I feel all liquidations should be -final-"

Prisca nods at Azarial.

Ivar states, "No reversals, ever."

Arkenn states, "That one I agree with"

Prisca nods at Ivar.

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Kiryn nods at Ivar.

Niamh claims, "I think that'd make Az's day."

Arkenn says, "If you want to liquidate. You are confirming you want the character to be gone."

Kinaed says, "But whether it's final or not isn't the issue impacting other people in the pbase."

Arkenn claims, "Make it at least a 24 hour cooldown timer"

Arkenn claims, "Like with MMO's"

Prisca muses, "If you want the character, put it on hiatus. we get what, 10 slots for characters on an account?"

Arkenn states, "You can't delete a character instantly most of the time"

Kiryn states to Prisca, "Exactly."

Azarial says, "Ten, yes"

Dagerian says, "The staff should give a final date"

Arkenn declares, "It's to prevent you from making a rash decision of, "frak THIS SHIT I'M OUT witch!" and hitting the delete button"

Kinaed claims, "I think we just need to get that liquidation POLCA in that has some basic detection points."

Arkenn declares, "Or in this case, sending in a pboard saying "SCREW THIS I WANNA LIQUIDATE!""

Dagerian claims, "You have five days to finish any RP and on this date your character will be liquidated. Done."

Niamh states, "At the end of the day we aren't capable of forcing people to play characters they don't want to play. If liquidation is the option taken, I'd say fine, but a) It's permanet, and b) Not as a means to burn the house down with you in it."

Yeto claims, "But also there should probably be a good effort to close out RP and remove your character from any plots they are in. There's obviously been several instances over the years of people who claimed to have ends tied up, liquidated, and left a bigger mess for other people to deal with."

Kinaed states, "And maybe announce liquidations to the pbase somehow so the pbase at large can say 'no, I don't think that one should be allowed'"

Niamh says, "*Permanent"

Kinaed states, "Because players are more aware of what's going on and if someone is after someone than staff are."

Kinaed nods at Yeto.

Yeto questions, "Can we also take a more firm stance on where the character goes? It's annoying to have somebody liquidate, then have your own character left responsible for answering for where they went"

Kiryn states, "As a GL I do get bpoarded when a character in my guild liquidates. Problem is by the time I get it they've liquidated."

Kinaed states, "We usually do require a closure IC_Event, and the liquidation POLCA definitely requires it."

Azarial claims, "It's part of the liquidation handling."

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Kiryn claims, "That tends to cause small (but not unresolveable!) issues for RP."

Arkenn muses, "Can we do something about left over houses and businesses and mobs on grid as a note on that?"

Kinaed asks, "Guys, I got a bit bombarded with comments, so lost track of things for a bit here. I'll have to reread the history. For now, Niamh can we re-add Liquidation to Staff Talking points, referencing this OOC Chat?"

Azarial states, "A fair bit goes into the cleanup of liquidations in the code, which is whyr eversing them is such a pain--as is changing the name of established characters"

Arkenn claims, "Like... When you up and liquidate."

Niamh says, "Sure."

Yeto says, "Those get thrown into real estate/auction house"

Kinaed is on a tiny screen, sorry guys.

Arkenn queries, "What happens to your business? What happens to your mobs?"

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Niamh finishes her note.

Kinaed nods at Arkenn.

Kiryn says to Arkenn, "Your businesses and any mobs attached to them are resold. Your retainer mobs are probably poofed during the liquidation if you haven't handed them off already."

Kinaed states, "I do think Liquidation is something we need to solidify and get more process-oriented on."

Arkenn states, "I know of 2 places off the top of my head that have businesses that are liquidated and still have people there."

Niamh says, "Maybe they should check for guild membership and warrants as a minimum."

Prisca claims, "Homes and businesses and their (non-retainer) NPCs get locked up put into the real estate office eventually."

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Kinaed states, "We'll need to code Order warrants then."

Niamh nods.

Arkenn states, "There's a Guard NPC in a shop next to the Globe. the owner is liquidated, the Castaway Cafe is sitting just south of  the Avenue of Arts and its owner has been gone for awhile."

Niamh claims, "That shop is owned by an active player."

Kinaed states, "Or just ask the Order to have the Reeves warrant too since their warrants function differently."

Arkenn queries, "It used to be owned by Rana wasn't it?"

Niamh states, "The cafe is probably going to kick over soon."

Niamh says, "Yup."

Arkenn questions, "Ah so it was purchased by an active player then?"

Arkenn says, "That's understandable then."

Kiryn says to Arkenn, "Either purchased by or willed to. Could happen either way."

Arkenn says, "With Rana banned, I doubt it was Willed unless she mailed someone that she wanted it willed as a side note."

[Taunya]

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Prisca says to Arkenn, "Wills have to be set up in advance"

Niamh finishes her note.

Arkenn makes sure that Prisca notes him in her will... causes an accident.

Giles is idle.

Arkenn blames it all on Kiryn.

Kinaed states, "Okay, guys. We have three minutes until the top of the hour."

Azarial states, "Nothng says the reeeves canot forge a wil."

Arkenn claims, "Hey. We don't have corrupt reeves."

Prisca claims, "Which is a good reminder- speak with your friendly neighborhood reeve about getting your will in order"

Giles is no longer idle.

Arkenn trails off, "I don't think we're allowed to..."

Azarial claims, "You can icly try it."

Kinaed says, "Did anyone have anything else to discuss? If not, thank you for your time and problem solving."

Lethanavir trails off, "I just want to say..."

Lethanavir states, "I love you all"

Theia claims, "I thought someone said one time it's just not allowed in general, like even icly trying doesn't work"

Kinaed smiles at Lethanavir.

Unrecognized command.  Perhaps you meant the following:
            buy   

Prisca waves.

Azarial claims, "Iirc, wills are not a code thing.  they;re a document kept in the reeve archives."

Kinaed claims, "Aww, returning love from over here too. :)"

Edwin claims, "All the questions I have are big and stupid and likely to drag things on forever."

Kiryn nods at Azarial.

Kinaed asks of Edwin, "Did you want to meet with staff after and see if we can help clear anything up?"

Kiryn claims, "That's why policies say if you've been PKed, let the staff know if you have a will on file."

Azarial wonders, "So if you find one after someone dies...who's to know it wasn;t misfiled?"

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Kiryn says, "Staff can't codely check that."

Kinaed states, "It's part of the dead room - a list of closeout things."

Yeto states, "Could drop a cnote requirement for wills too, might save some staff headache"

Kinaed nods at Yeto.

Kinaed says, "A good idea."

Kiryn claims, "I'd cnote it anyway if I had one."

Kiryn claims, "Related: I should have one."

Kinaed nods at Kiryn.

Kinaed claims, "Okay, it's the top of the hour! Thanks for attending everyone."

Kiryn claims, "Especially if people are gonna start throwing things at me."