Log of OOC Meeting 2018-08-25

[Taunya]

Temi asks, "Our agenda today is 1)  Staff updates, 2)  Player heartbeat, 3)  Player topics.  Before we get started, does anyone already have any items they want to get on the list for player topics?"

Prisca says, "I've got something"

Temi nods at Prisca.

Temi questions, "Okay, anyone else?"

Kinaed starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Prisca claims, "I think I had another something, if there's time and I can remember what it was."

Temi says, "Alright.  If anyone comes up with anything, please feel free to let me know, and we will add it to the list.  We'll start with one topic per person, but if we get through without that, maybe we'll have that second."

Temi grins at Prisca.

Kinaed finishes her note.

Temi claims, "Alright, so, staff updates."

Temi states, "Kin said her updates is:  mostly logging in after hours an reading notes/resolving the request queue"

Temi has transferred Geras.  [OOC]

Temi gives a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste to Geras.

Temi questions, "Az?"

Prisca waves to Geras.

Azarial says, "Niamh gave me a hand sorting out typos and already fixed bugs, so i've managed to trim my list down almost forty notes or so.  mostly typos, plus a crash and a reversed boolean."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Geras exclaims to Prisca, "Run while you still can!"

Azarial closes the lower pillow.

Temi declares, "Yeah, excellent progress on the smaller bugs, get those out of the way!"

Temi trails off, "Taking a look at the changes board..."

Kinaed has transferred Kirill.  [OOC]

Temi says, "Nothing too major, I think.  Mainly those sort of typo things."

Temi gives a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste to Kirill.

Temi says, "For myself... working on sorting out the event for tomorrow.. Theoretically I'm working on improvised weapons, but I haven't had too much luck with time on that yet."

Kirill holds a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste in his hand.

Kirill stops using a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste.

Temi says, "I'll be gone starting next week for two weeks, so make sure I know about anything you need from me soon"

Esuvia queries, "Is the event tomorow or tonite?"

Prisca smiles.

Temi claims, "My event is tomorrow.  Players are holding some pre-stuff tonight"

Temi has transferred Norrig.  [OOC]

Temi gives a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste to Norrig.

Norrig bows.

Norrig holds a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste in his hand.

Temi states, "For Niamh, she's been pretty occupied with RL, but she did do carriages which I think people have been excited about."

Norrig claims, "I gotta try that."

Kinaed has transferred Norrig.  [OOC]
Kinaed has transferred Norrig.  [OOC]

Kinaed claims, "Oops"

Temi questions, "Alright then.  Player heartbeat!   How has RP been this week, folks?"

Prisca wonders to Norrig, "You okay there?"

Riette claims, "He likes to make an entrance."

Temi has transferred Empena.  [OOC]

Temi gives a delicate, porcelain doll dressed like young Queen Celeste to Empena.

Livia claims, "I'm just getting started but I've had a good time :)"

Norrig claims to Prisca, "I'm Gorrin."

Temi states, "We were just asking about player heartbeat"

Norrig states, "I had good rp. I like being pulled into the midst of stuff 'cause Laudate."

Prisca states, "Ah, slow as should be expected, but having fun in my own way. Sounds like I've stirred quite a bit of RP, which I'm happy about"

Norrig cracks his knuckles with a pleasing pop.

Temi pontificates to Prisca, "It certainly sounds that way!"

Livia thinks there is nothing pleasing about knuckle-pops.

Empena says, "I've had a lot of interesting political stuff going on, Council meeting Tuesday."

Temi exclaims to Norrig, "Just remember that when you have the chance to pull other people in!"

Temi grins at Norrig.

Theia claims, "Woo hoo Council meeting"

Kirill claims, "Oh, yes! Player-run event happening about 30 minutes after this meeting, assuming this meeting ends on the hour. Will send out messengers and the like."

Kinaed muses, "Spread rumors about it if you haven't?"

Eydis claims, "I am just getting into things but I'm enjoying myself so far. Hopefully more RP oppurtunities will arise as I get settled."

Kinaed smiles.

Prisca nods at Eydis.

Kinaed states to Eydis, "Welcome to TI. :)"

Temi muses, "Anything bothering anyone or anything that staff ought to know about?"

Norrig says, "Uh. No. I'm good."

Empena claims, "Hmm, I have a concern I've expressed before about the assumption that if you don't see certain RP it isn't happening."

Kinaed asks of Empena, "Please provide an example for context?"

Prisca sticks her head in the dirt like a cartoon ostrich.

Temi wonders, "You mean like there's no criminal RP happening because you're not in on it, or?"

Empena states, "There's a discussion on the forums about racist RP, I've certainly been in scenes that involve such, but without going on the forums and revealing my own arguably private RP, I don't know how to change that perspective. But yes, things like that"

Norrig has lost link.
Norrig has reconnected.

Temi nods.

Norrig nods.

Theia says, "The sort of thing like maybe... calling charalin out on being savages by the general public not happening. Because when a PC does it it's shocking"

Temi questions, "A good reminder in general.  Have a lot of people noticed things being professed on the forums that never happen that they have a completely different view on or things like that?"

Norrig asks, "Like?"

Azarial says, "Part of it is that it's mostly vnpcs wandering around, and those have a problem echoing comments."

Riette claims, "Kind of related, I get that sometimes if I'm not on the who list much. A general assumption of 'If I don't see it, it doesn't exist.'"

Dagerian is idle.

Temi nods.

Riette states, "Think more rumors about the closed door RP would help? Doesn't need to be specific, but might help prove there's Things happening you might not ICly be involved with."

Temi says, "Yeah, it's easy for people to forget things they aren't involved with.  Rumors might help, sure."

Temi queries, "I think all we can do for that is suggest people consider the rumors, though, unless people have ideas on it?"

Eydis asks, "Thats an interesting idea, especially since it might give people a way to hook into that RP in some cases maybe?"

Norrig states to Riette, "Your helpfile does say you travel a lot"

Empena claims, "Possibly, though there are rumors already that are pretty spicy."

Prisca says, "It's been a busy week for rumors"

Temi grins.

Temi declaims, "Well, nothing wrong with that!"

Eydis says, "I need to learn more about how to use rumors."

Temi states, "It's a fun system."

Temi nods at Eydis.

Esuvia declares, "I'm made it in then! "

Esuvia claims, "Glad that is"

Temi muses, "Alright - anything else worrying people that staff ought to know about?"

Kirill says, "No, but I do want to mention that I posted some feedback on the forums regarding noble projects."

Empena nods.

Temi nods.

Azarial claims, "That silence is pretty nice, given how active this week seemed."

Temi claims, "I'm sure we'll discuss those as staff when we can"

Temi muses, "Alright then!  Moving onto player topics.  Prisca, you had something?"

Prisca nods.

Prisca says, "Can NPC guards not attack their owners? I had my own guard yell 'Treason!' at me and throw me in Ahalin. Private guards likely shouldn't enforce warrants at all, unless they're a guild enforcer. But your guard likely shouldn't attack you for messing up using an unassigned key and stuff either. (Not retainers, but NPCs with guard templates to be clear)"

Temi muses, "So like a guard in your shop/home, or something else?"

Geras states, "That's pretty bs"

Prisca nods at Temi.

Kirill asks, "Maybe add treasonous actions to the autofailsafe system?"

Dagerian is no longer idle.

Dagerian has returned from AFK.

Azarial states, "That would be outside actions, and result from a warrant."

Temi says, "I don't think there's much codified that would count as treason, besides like trying to murder the queen.  And that wouldn't be recognized as treason until a Reeve said it was"

Norrig has lost link.
Norrig has reconnected.

Unrecognized command.  Perhaps you meant the following:
          south          sit      sheathe        sayto        shout   
          shoot   

Prisca says to Kirill, "Yes, it was a problem with there being a warrant for treason. but my own guard got a little over-excited and betrayed me"

Empena claims, "Maybe they got bought out, Mercenaries, man."

Kirill questions, "Well. Probably didn't want to be an accomplice?"

Temi states, "To be fair, owned NPCs should probably generally be normal, law-abiding folks who won't condoneyour doing magery or breaking laws"

Theia says, "Yea"

Theia states, "I was going to say"

Temi states, "They are still their own people, you don't get to decide they are okay with whatever you want to do"

Prisca asks, "So mages can't have mage guards to protect their lairs/towers?"

Theia states, "Whether you pay their salary or not, more than likely if you do magical things or break laws infront of a non-animal retainer/guard. You will likely be reported."

Eydis claims, "That seems like it makes sense. Even if you are okay breaking the law that doesn't mean your help won't sell you out if they catch you."

Norrig questions to Prisca, "Your own mob called the reeves codedly? rofl"

Azarial states, "Funny enough, skeletons don;t sweat things like treason"

Theia muses, "Skeletons count as a non-human wouldn't they?"

Geras says, "I'd hope they'd be more loyal than just throwing you in jail. Like, deserting you is one thing. Attacking youis another."

Temi claims, "Generally not, no.  Unless you had them guarding your house and not seeing what witchery you were up to in the tower"

Empena muses, "Hmm, arguably then can Brotherhood members not have retainers?"

Temi claims, "If they should be the ones enforcing warrants is another question"

Prisca claims to Geras, "Mine pulled out a his weapon, started yelling TREASON and a bunch of other things every few seconds. Didn't attack, but engaged. it seems it started a countdown for arrest but it wasn't clear"

Theia says, "I think for Brotherhood members they either need specialized retainers or you know... they go out solo."

Esuvia says, "I would assume, if you operate outside the law, and hire an accomplice, you should assume they're not going to flip on you"

Kirill states, "Probably enforcing a warrant goes a bit far. Desertion or reporting over Reeves channel sounds more likely."

Temi claims, "But just hiring a retainer from the shop shouldn't guarantee their loyalty"

Empena states, "I wasn't sure if they have a special retainer shop for that, maybe they should? Could be interesting."

Eydis queries, "But regular hired help are likely law abiding. Granted maybe there could be a way to get non law abiding people to work for you too?"

Temi queries to Azarial, "I'm guessing there's a flag on NPCs that determines whether they will try to arrest people with warrants or not?"

Theia says, "It all depends actually... if it's a retainer. I can see just deserting you or reporting you."

Empena says, "Scumbags for hire."

Esuvia wonders, "How about some sort of loyalty stat, based on length of employmeny, weekly, pay, and owner's charisma?"

Theia claims, "But if it's not a retainer and like Prisca said, an actual NPC that is set to guard somewhere, maybe look out for them to try and turn you in"

Azarial claims, "Part of the guard spec, iirc."

Kirill states, "I'm guessing it's a similar flag as is on the patrolling Reeves or something."

Temi nods.

Temi questions, "What else does the guard spec roll into it?"

Temi claims, "It might make sense to be able to separate that out for non-Reeve guards"

Azarial claims, "Quite a few reactions to things.  race, b&g, some guilds, etc"

Temi questions, "Should a guard mob at a guildhall have it, for instance?"

Theia queries, "Maybe add something that accepts exemptions from scripts for it?"

Prisca claims, "I'd be amused if the thieves hire a guard for their hall, immediately locks up the entire guild."

Theia claims, "You could then have the brotherhood members have guards who have the exemption of "if it's a brotherhood member, it's fine""

Azarial states, "We might need guild specific progs to let the reeves handle crimes."

Theia says, "Or specific people"

Geras states, "It would be nice if you could pay a premium for a guard that ignores different things"

Prisca claims, "I'd be fine with the set owner getting a pass until the rest is sorted out."

Temi claims, "We may just not want that function on the non-Reeve guards, and if there's certain functions we do need, we might have to separate them out.  I'll put that on the stage discussion list"

Geras states, "Yah giving the owner a pass at a minimum"

Esuvia says, "Maybe for an additional fee"

Temi says, "Easier to remove the flag than add code to make an exception for a certain person"

Prisca says, "That's true I guess"

Empena wonders, "Also, I'm thinking people tend to RP and assume NPCs are loyal, if that's not true, does that mean people could RPA against someone's guard? If so, should that be said somewhere?"

Azarial claims, "Loyal to a point."

Norrig has lost link.

Norrig has reconnected.

Prisca claims to Empena, "Probably should be mentioned, yes. I think there's been plots involving retainers"

Theia states, "NPCs are loyal to who pay the most."

Theia claims, "I would assume"

Temi claims, "It should be assumed that NPCs you own are generally reasonably loyal, but that won't last through magery or criminal activity, and if it's something bystander NPCs will report for, they'll do it"

Temi claims, "And probably not loyal past the point of torture or huge bribes, but staff aren't going to listen in to everything a guard says long term or anything"

Temi says, "So we'd probably have to trust you about what you're doing with the guard in most cases"

Prisca nods.

Temi claims, "But they are a separate person from you with their own motivations and cares, and should always be treated as such"

Temi states, "I'm pretty sure there's something about that in helpfiles already"

Prisca claims, "I'd recommend cnoting your guard's take on things if they're involved in your mischief."

Norrig says, "Yeah people forget mobs are always listening in"

Prisca says, "Err your retainers' rather"

Theia states, "If you hire a shady guard who is ok with breaking the law, don't be surprised if his shady side wins out and he sells you out to someone who pays good coin"

Temi claims, "They're not going to go volunteering your secrets to someone for cash or stealing your things (unless you want them to!  that could be fun!)  but you should probably expect they'd be as loyal as you are to your boss."

Theia claims, "Likewise, if you hire a guard who is a Dudly Do-Right then it's not likely they will turn on you unless you're up to evil things"

Temi trails off, "Okay... I think we've about covered that topic then"

Theia asks, "Was this Prisca's topic or just something that was bugging?"

Geras has his father as his boss

Temi states, "That started with Prisca's topic and went from there"

Theia states, "Ah"

Temi wonders, "But now we've got another topic.  Norrig?"

Norrig shows people a lot of saucy letters with unspeakable secrets, saying: "I would like to remind staff that we are discussing a reconsideration of seal and header edit costs over at https:/ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1828 "

Riette wonders, "So if you wouldn't do it in front of a PC acquaintance, maybe tell them to go fetch some tabac and dismiss the retainer for a while?"

Norrig nods at Riette.

Prisca nods at Riette.

Dagerian states, "Or just eat them and carry on."

Prisca grins at Dagerian.

Temi questions, "So, you should be able to change your seal/header for free within an hour or so of creating it, I think?"

Azarial nods at Temi.

Prisca claims, "Think I weighed in on the headers/seal stuff already. Hmm, yes within an hour seems a good compromise"

Temi claims, "So might be good to check for typos after creating it"

Norrig claims, "Uh. Okay."

Temi states, "However, in the case of changing titles or things... yeah, this represents a metal object with the words carved into it.  You can't just change it to reflect your title whenever you like"

Norrig nods.

Temi says, "And they are something we expect to be pretty static and a bigger deal to change"

Norrig states, "Tough but fair. I made a color code typo and realised like two weeks later."

Temi states, "However, to get them cheaper, there are header and seal-creating objects from artists and jewelers at high levels"

Kirill wonders, "Are PC-made seals significantly cheaper?"

Temi nods at Kirill.

Norrig queries to Temi, "Really?"

Temi states, "They should be.  Not sure how much, but should be significant"

Theia questions, "How do those items work exactly?"

Temi says, "I think they might be at the 75 level"

Empena queries, "Help mail doesn't mention the hour leeway, maybe a shoutout to it in the helpfile?"

Temi nods at Empena.

Theia muses, "Is there something you do with them to cause it to take effect?"

Livia is idle.

Livia is no longer idle.

Azarial states, "Iirc you use them while in the profile polca as special commands"

Livia has returned from AFK.

Riette nods at Azarial.

Kirill states, "I wish there was a more graceful way to order commissions from merchants that allowed them to just automatically apply whatever template/info you've provided."

Kirill states, "Without them having to copy and paste, which introduces mistakes."

Kirill claims, "Especially for our blind folks. They're at a real disadvantage."

Temi nods.

Norrig nods.

Temi says, "Yeah, that's always a bit tough."

Kirill states, "Like... designs."

Kirill states, "A design object I could put all my info on."

Eydis says, "That would be helpful yes."

Norrig says, "Yeah didn't know about the hour buff."

Norrig droops.

Kirill claims, "And then the merchant could just apply that to their object before finalizing."

Prisca claims, "You cool tool a piece of paper as the item and they could clone it"

Temi says, "We can definitely add the hour buffer time into the helpfile"

Kirill questions, "Can you clone across object types?"

Prisca claims, "Could tool*"

Prisca nods at Kirill.

Prisca claims, "Just be sure to label the template item."

Kirill claims, "The only problem I see with that is that you then have a sheet of paper that looks like something it's not."

Prisca claims, "Yes, there is that."

Esuvia wonders, "Could it be possible for a tool to be created that can convert regular text to ASCII art text, and plop on some ascii clip art from a library. With a simple command like Create Seal: My Characters Name: ArtFile 12, it'd autogenerate one? "

Riette claims, "I'm a fan of giving toolable things to people to tweak as they want but I get the cons to doing that, too."

Azarial says, "I think you can find the ascii converters online"

Kirill declares, "I seem to have sidetracked things. Whoops. Sorry!"

Prisca nods at Riette.

Empena claims, "There are websites for that"

Temi claims, "We are designed more for the crafter being the one doing the creative work instead of just copy-pasting what the commissioner wants"

Kirill was just momentarily fantasizing about usable blueprints.

Temi says, "But that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be"

Riette nods at Kirill.

Kirill says, "With something as complicated as a header or seal, though. It has always seemed like more trouble than it's worth."

Prisca says, "This brings to mind one of my suggestions that's being looked at"

Temi trails off, "I've been a crafter and while I loved doing all the pretty strings for people... it's so exhausting to keep up with"

Theia states, "When I was a merchant, if you provided your own designs, I gave a discount for it as it saved me the time of coming up with something for you."

Riette claims, "Not sure it would be worth the effort but in my non-programmer brain I assume crafts could be adjusted so you could do some kind of blueprint polca."

Prisca questions, "Sharable recipes idea- viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1581"

Kirill states, "Blueprints would be great, honestly."

Norrig nods.

Kirill states, "I would love to apply my strings to a blueprint object and then hand that off to a crafter. Would probably get faster turnarounds and things that way."

Theia claims, "More often than not, a crafter is capable of doing your strings for you with relative ease"

Norrig nods.

Theia says, "As long as you provide them"

Theia says, "Even completelye colored"

Theia says, "Completely too"

Temi nods.

Kirill claims, "Not for blind folks, unfortunately."

Riette muses, "Worth starting or continuing a thread about it?"

Prisca nods at Kirill.

Kirill says, "For them, it's easier to get an unfinished item and tool it yourself with color codes."

Eydis claims, "I agree. Even for crafters blueprints could be useful if they have a craft they want to save to make again later. Like a cook who makes certain recipes on multiple occassions."

Temi says, "It seems like Niamh's already put that blueprint idea on the talking points, so we'll be discussing it at somep oint"

Azarial queries, "I imagine colour is almost impossible for the blind players to work with?"

Unrecognized command.  Perhaps you meant the following:
          carry   

Prisca cheers.

Kirill nods at Azarial.

Norrig says, "I have seen blind folks do amazing stuff with colors"

Azarial nods.

Norrig claims, "They just need a guidance of what goes with what"

Livia claims, "You can always escape the colour codes to make them copy-pastable"

Kirill says, "It's possible but can be difficult, knowing where to start and stop the copy and paste."

Azarial states, "I have something on the docket to escape out of ascii to prevent clogging readers, but it is tricky to pull off in strings."

Prisca says, "I've partnered with a blind player, she does the strings I do the coloring. She's better at making descs than I am, so works out well"

Temi nods.

Temi states, "If you have specific ideas of how it could be better, feel free to go comment on that forum topic"

Temi claims, "We'll poke at it again when we're discussing it"

Kirill declaims, "I might check it out, thanks for sharing!"

Temi says, "I don't think we're opposed, but it could get complicated quick before it's worth it, so there's that"

Temi asks, "Alright.. anything else anyone wants to discuss?  It looks like we've got about 5 minutes left?"

Prisca declaims, "Nope, but a big thanks to everyone getting themselves involved with the Prisca stuff! recs going out as I learn of involvement"

Norrig says, "I'm good. Too bad we couldn't get enough people for the melee of last night."

Dagerian wonders, "That was last night?"

Dagerian trails off, "...."

Dagerian facepalms.

Norrig trails off, "Yeah..."

Temi questions, "Did you actually try to have that?  I just saw the postponed and never to when"

Kirill states, "I was down, but I guess we were lacking participants."

Norrig claims, "I put rumors, ooc posts, sent mails, messengers and tells"

Geras says, "I'd join but I was leaving work at the time"

Temi states, "The timing may just have been bad then, unfortunately"

Prisca states, "Might join next time if I have all of my required pieces."

Norrig nods.

Dagerian claims, "I'm literally finishing up editing my movie and about to screen it in a few weeks. I'm scatter brained, apologies."

Norrig has gone AFK.

Temi claims, "I'm sure folks would be glad to have it another time"

Prisca states, "Sounded like fun"

Prisca claims to Dagerian, "Oooo"

Riette declares, "If you're maybe interested in something, consider giving the runner a heads up!"

Azarial nods at Riette.

Riette states, "Helps with prep if you've got some idea of how many people may be involved."

Kirill says, "Yes, would be happy to do it another weekend, if possible."

Kirill says, "And if you want a headcount, best to ask for it explicitly."

Dagerian says, "I'm also about to get ready to film a tv pilot I made so my scatterbrained self may remain."

Norrig states, "I'll try again soon"

Azarial asks, "Candle thing half an hour after this wraps up, yes?"

Norrig pontificates, "There's a trophy cup!"

Temi nods at Azarial.

Riette grins.

Prisca nods at Azarial.

Riette exclaims to Dagerian, "Nice, good luck!"

Kirill declares, "Yes! I need a trans out so I can finish getting set up!"

Kirill waves.

Norrig has returned from AFK.

Eydis says, "Speaking of events I will be late to the one today. Its approching time for me to go in search of food but when I get back if its still going I may drop in."

Prisca waves to Kirill.

Temi states, "Alright then!  I think we'll go ahead and call it.  Sending people back"

Prisca waves.