ti-legacy.com

Log session starting at 00:00:25 on Sunday, 12 July 2020.


Valkyrie says, "Sure."

Kinaed declaims to OneWing, "Thank you!"


Rothe claims, "Not working"

Kinaed has awarded you 2 QPs: Scribe


Anonymous states, "It's from the health project and subsequent tubori clinic being built"

Joel claims, "Oh you can forge here"


Kinaed states, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you
register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."


Kuzco says, "I've a topic"


Kinaed wonders, "I think I have at least one registered already. Adding Kuzco. Anyone else?"


Valkyrie asks, "I'd like to talk about something that might be a bug, if that counts?"

Kinaed says to Valkyrie, "That's fine, adding you too"


Anonymouse says, "I had a friend that wanted to, but they're not here, so I'll just give a brief
synopsis in their stead"


Sparkles claims, "I have a topic."

Kinaed claims to Anonymouse, "Adding you"


Souless claims, "Lots of topics this week."


Anonymous claims, "Why must you mock me so"


Joel claims, "We all have issues"


Phoenix states, "Can confirm"


Kinaed says, "Okay, if you have a topic - please pre-write it so when called upon, you can introduce
it to us."


Kinaed claims, "I'll kick off staff update.s"


Chipotle states, "I have something that's sort of a mechanical inquiry to staff more than anything."


Kinaed states, "I didn't do much of anything... I do have some policy stuff on my desk that I sent
preliminary responses to, but I was pretty busy at work and totally MIA - and Iprobably will be for
the next 3 weeks due to a project I'm on. Sorry On my desk still - Turf Wars."


Anonymouse says, "No you cannot mechanically hide things in your asa"

Kinaed says to Temi, "You're up "


Temi states, "I am now back home and easing back into normal schedule and life."


Rothe says, "No prison pockets"


Souless cheers!


Joel cheers at Temi


Joel asks, "How was camping?"


Condensation claims, "Need to fix the bleed in your name, Souless."


Temi finishes abruptly, "So.. not a whole lot this week and probably a bit slow coming up still -
but I have been working on following up on trying to drive the big Roland plot towards its end"


Temi claims, "Camping was very nice and relaxing, just what we needed."

Kinaed smiles.

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed says, "Looks like Temi is our only staffer today. No code changes were posted this week
either."


Kinaed wonders, "I guess that puts us at our quickest Staff Update on record. Time for Player
Heartbeats! How was the game for you last week, everyone?"


Valkyrie declares, "A few gripes here and there but overall going well!"


Boobermann states, "Pretty good. Making kind of big plots and sometimes smashing the theme hammer
down."


Joel states, "A bit of slowdown, wrote only three recos this week I think "


Sleeper pontificates, "Pretty Great!"


Yinadele exclaims, "Fun!"


Anonymouth exclaims, "Good! I've been pretty distracted though"


Condensation states, "Busy again. Pretty uneventful, too."


Phoenix claims, "Burn out/bored from one char, the other is fun so guess ill play the other."


Anonymous pontificates, "I have so many copy cats!"


Chipotle says, "I've been having a great time."


Anonymouth states, "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm the original."


Kuzco states, "It's been alright =)"


Preposterous states, "Taskers ST was amazeballs."


Joel says, "Phoenix That's always the best cure "

Kinaed has transferred Shamra. [OOC]


Kuzco claims, "Having fun with Aramis, our son, sending mail"

Temi gives a toy boat, bearing a winged staff painted on a square sail to Shamra.

Temi has created a toy boat, bearing a winged staff painted on a square sail[5].


Phoenix sets her toy boat down in front of herself and leans down to blow enthusiastically into the
sail, but it doesn't make much progress. After a few moment, she sneaks out a hand to nudge it
forwards instead.


Condensation states, "Has he got his own mail profile."


Kinaed wonders, "Anything shitting anyone that's not already an OOC topic, but you do want Staff to
know?"


Sparkles says, "Yes, yes he does."


Kuzco says, "You bet"


Kuzco claims, "Nah"


Sparkles states, "Only a slight reminder about osay chatter."


Condensation shrugs.


Anonymouth exclaims, "Just a general reminder to recommend and be positive to others OOCly? Everyone
could use a bit of encouragement. Other than that, nah!"


Joel can't recommend recommending enough.


Souless nods an agreement.


Kinaed states, "Seems pretty quiet on that front Thanks everyone. Also, we do love recommends, so
keep them coming "


Valkyrie states, "I've been recommending a ton, I don't think I ever heard anything back on it. If
you are at least."


Souless claims, "That reminds me that I need to write another recommend, actually."

say Kind of do. But don't want to make it a thing and solve it on my own.

OneWing says, "Kind of do. But don't want to make it a thing and solve it on my own."


Temi states, "We do have more to process, but we do that in batches when we can"


Kinaed says, "Hearing nothing means it was probably approved and you got QP for the recommend."


Condensation claims, "GL comes with the crux of losing interesting RP."


Anonymouth states, "Plus, if your recommend is approved, you get QP too! So send -alll- the
recommends in"

Phoenix pontificates, "Oh heck. i keep forgetting about recommends. thanks for reminding me!"


Condensation claims, "Oh yeah. Keep an eye on your QP. See more than you had before, you had some
recommends approved "


Kinaed pontificates, "Okay, we have a HEAP of topics, and I've even gotten more in tells, so let's
kick off Player Topics!"

Kinaed says to Joel, "You're up first "


Joel claims, "So my topic is on asset resources. I love them, they cost you a lot of upfront but
then you can supply better part of the playerbase (if you wish so) with very cheap resources. The
problem for me is that they are just spawning the goods ad-hoc and out of thin air, with no
limitation and I find that this stiffles amount of possible roleplay around them as no matter what
happens, if you got the cash you can refil your stash. Thus my proposition - lets greatly delay
delivery of goods from asset redeem, especially for materials, by something like a week.

I think that would open a lot of fun RP opportunity. As holder of the asset you have to plan how
much material you will need for the week - and yep, if you run out, there is now competition for it.
And then if someone say, steals that meterial, you have to either barter with the thief to get it
back (at a premium) or find another source, or just bend the knee and buy from NPCs. This also opens
up space for having multiple people with the same type of resource, not just in case the other
person stops laying, but if they just mismanage the materials and forgets to order, and now it's a
weeks wait.

What do you think? I am really excited just thinking about all those opportunities this opens up,
and disrupts the pretty comfortable cheap-materials situation, without actually nerfing the assets -
just requiring a bit more planning, and having stuff at the risk to benefit from the prices, which
now can be stolen/destroyed etc."


Anonymous claims, "I am heavily opposed to putting any delay in resources being delivered via the
mail"


Condensation says, "A week? Noo, nooo, nooooo..... That'll actually kill so much chance to do
commissions, work, training, stocking up a big guild with practice mats.. Nooo, no no"


Kuzco claims, "It makes sense but it may be a little too realistic"

say I... don't think it will do much. I am more confused on resources like Vavardi silk costing
hundreds of gold to set up, if I don't remember wrongly.

OneWing says, "I... don't think it will do much. I am more confused on resources like Vavardi silk
costing hundreds of gold to set up, if I don't remember wrongly."


Sparkles says, "I also think delaying things for a week introduces a pretty good chance of
reboots/crashes/code issues nuking the orders."


Kinaed claims, "Hehe, things that make the game harder are often a tough sell, but I'm not
intrinsically against it. I'll put this on my list to discuss with staff at our staff meeting"

Anonymouse has lost link.
Anonymouse has reconnected.


Yinadele says, "I think a week long is too long, but I don't think a smaller delay would be
problematic."


Anonymouth states, "I would agree to an OOC day or two delay in receiving assets. Doesn't mean you
can't stockpile (i.e. there's not a new limit on how -much- you can get), but would require you to
plan ahead somewhat."


Anonymous says, "Having resources be deliverable for a cash fee without delays is how you get 20
silver rations."


Chipotle claims, "Yeah, I disagree nearly wholeheartedly with this one, I'm afraid; cheap materials
also come with a typically-saturated market that only rarely has opportunities for profit. It is
assumed that there are constant shipments, and that you only pay extra to get a portion 'as it comes
through' to some extent. Having played a Merchant, it would have completely killed me to wait for
materials like this. Few people want to wait a week for something that costs them - sometimes dearly
- right now."


Condensation states, "Harder for some, and I can already see it infuriating people because we
suddenly can't provide commissions without needing weeks."


Joel claims, "You can still do comissions, just at NPC prices."


Condensation claims, "There's absolutely no chance you can plan what you need, unless you're a small
time crafter. Heck, if you know the sheer amount of goods the Merchants go through in a week."


Anonymous states, "I know for a fact the amount of resources a merchant who has commissions or is
just making stuff to stock a store goes through"


Anonymous claims, "Putting any delay in resources will nuke the economy"


Anonymous states, "Dont do it"


Sparkles says, "Also considering people don't always have 100 percent control over their RL
availability, having to rely on less available folks and it -also- taking them a week to do anything
will make trading with them pretty impossible."


Valkyrie claims, "The problem with NPC prices is that it'll make some things so horribly expensive
that people won't want to buy it, or that you earn almost nothing from it."


Chipotle says, "Commissions at NPC prices don't work. That's why you do commissions at PC prices."


Condensation states, "Precisely what sparkles said."


Kinaed listens to the opinions and jots notes.


Anonymouse claims, "I think wanting to give more opportunities for shipments to be delayed/hijacked
and the fallout from that is a good idea, but we can find a way to execute such that isn't 'just
wait a week'"


Temi queries, "If the concern is the unlimited numbers of super cheap materials, would people be
more supportive of limits of how much you could get discounted?"


Condensation queries, "Keep in mind sometimes you need a few days to even get a response on a mail
back about a commission. If they don't want X material, you won't know for days, then if they do
confirm they want X material, you need to let them wait yet another full week on an item, and with
what RP behind it? How does that help anything aside from just delay unnecessary things"


Sparkles states, "I feel like a limit per week would make more sense than a delay."

nod
OneWing nods.


Anonymouse claims, "I for one would like to give the Brotherhood more chances to do things that
aren't just "Rob Player Home For Goods That Nobody Will Buy""


Joel claims, "Well, the thing is we lived on npc prices... forever. ANd with a lot less silver
around. Right now anyone who tries to work on materials without asset resource is at ridiculous
disadvantage. And it opens a lot of RP that right now doesn't exist, where someone may for example
steal your stockpile, and now you have to talk to them, not just order more."


Preposterous claims, "I would keep in mind that purchasing these from the actual market (not via
RPXP) can be relatively expensive. Too much of a limit will make it less worth it."


Preposterous claims, "Asset market, I mean."

Condensation states, "As a non-Merchant, perhaps. As a Merchant, that can easily kill the chance for
practice materials being available for folk."


Sparkles claims, "People don't live on NPC prices though, a lot of the time if they don't like the
price they just don't buy anything at all."


Condensation says, "You're seriously hindering those who invest heavily in assets. It just targets
folk who already have taken a hit in their character, be it monetary or through their starter XP"


Chipotle queries, "Same, on limits per week. On the note of theft - I don't think this would add
anything to the Brotherhood, either. They don't get a chance to know when your shipments come in
already. What will delaying them by a week do for that?"


Valkyrie says, "Maybe gradually increase the price depending on how much is ordered within an IC
week? But items would have to be manually adjusted since certain materials are needed a lot like
with outfits."

Phoenix claims, "Practice material is already incredibly difficult. Because you need so much. Oof."


Preposterous claims, "That's kinda what I'm trying to say, Condensation. The more valuable resources
cost quite a lot. Getting something in return is nice."


Condensation claims, "Meanwhile, we have no control on how many of.. say.. cheap wool new Merchants
use up, and I've seen entier stocks of 20+ piles or 100+ iron bars vanish before y ou can sneeze."

Temi nods at Valkyrie.


Temi claims, "That's an interesting idea."


Condensation trails off, "And that's with only a single Apprentice using them..."


Souless states, "Not ot mention, the practice material you need changes a lot."


Anonymouse finishes abruptly, "If you have not only an asset that can hold a resource, but the
resource itself - you're bourgeouis scum, and should probably be a target for thieves anyway"


Joel states, "Why not break the merchant coffer and buy MASS of materials, store that in the vault?
Have a winter supply, you know? It is an IC solution to needing big supply, but then that also
creates in IC target."


Chipotle claims, "With that said, I don't think prices are low due to materials being cheap. I think
prices are low because people just don't need things. At all. Ever. People buy things for style more
than they buy them for anything, and they can do without."


Souless claims, "So, you need to have multiple resources attached to your assets."


Kinaed says, "Okay, we have a heap of topics - and I think most people have been able to feedback on
this one. As I said, anything that makes the game harder for people tends to illict a negative
response, but I'll put it on the Staff Agenda to discuss the ins and outs."


Condensation claims, "Precisely, Chipotle."


Kinaed trails off, "Next up..."

Kinaed questions to Kuzco, "Your topic please? "


Kuzco pulls a complex graph from hammerspace and shows it: "There is currently no difference between
fish types as to cooking, and the rarer fishes that require a higher fishing level have, to my
knowledge, a single direct application (which I won't be naming). Could we maybe make 'higher' fish
provide a different type of fillet when cleaned, which can be used in a new cooking recipe? Or
perhaps for high level recipes like Tubori Stew?"


Condensation says, "Far as I'm aware, there's as good as no commissions going on in the GUild for a
week or two now."


Condensation says, "Sorry."

Cat is idle.


Condensation goes 'ooooooh!' over the fishing idea!


Condensation declaims, "Yes!"

Kinaed asks of Temi, "Do higher cooking craft recipes give more mv and the like?"


Kuzco states, "Yes"


Temi queries, "So split fishes into standard fish and gourmet fish, rather than just fish?"

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Chipotle says, "I generally agree with this, but I want to caution against someone getting fishing
so high that they can't get 'common' fish anymore."


Anonymous says, "Fishing expansion yes"

Sparkles says, "My thought was a high level recipe for alike Vavardi Bouillabaisse"


Kuzco states, "Chocolate statues can feed a small army"


Condensation states, "I love that idea."


Anonymous says, "@chipotle they could just EFFORT fish down to get common again"


Kuzco states, "The fish COMMAND is great, the fish SKILL is useless to learn"


Temi claims, "But you don't need higher level fished items for higher level cooking recipes"


Joel wants a chocolate statue and loves more fish.

Kuzco claims to Temi, "Exactly"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Condensation says, "Maybe gourmet fish can't be reeled out of ponds, that way, anyone can always
catch common ones, or .. aye.. simply EFFORT it down."


Preposterous claims, "Or, don't let the high-end recipes use salted fish? Takes quite a bit more
that way, too."


Temi claims, "The bigger, fancier fish just result in more filets"


Condensation states, "Fillet count is uber random right now"


Kuzco states, "So tuna or a swordsfish are codedly the same"


Sparkles claims, "Maybe gourmet fish dishes should require gourmet fish."


Chipotle says, "I bet I could singlehandedly supply the entire game for weeks from a 2-hour fishing
session. I don't think supply is a factor."


Rothe says, "Once you break off the sword they are both just fish"


Sparkles queries, "Like making a Butchering craft for fancy fish?"


Anonymous claims, "Yes, that is a thing chipotle. I got 6 filets from one small fish the other day,
and those 6 filets turned into 18 dishes"


Temi claims, "I'm not opposed to splitting the fish types out to regular and gourmet filets, but it
would probably take a bit to get to it"


Kuzco says, "Yeah if you get the good fishing rooms, and the right season, you can issue a
looooooooootta fish"


Temi claims, "Sounds like people would appreciate it."


Phoenix says, "(now i know what to do when im bored >.>)"


Kuzco claims, "It'd make the fishing skill more relevant"


Kinaed claims, "I think we like the idea, I'm not sure what coding might be involved, if any. I'll
put it on Staff list to discuss. Thanks "


Anonymous asks, "Deep sea harpooning when?"


Kuzco states, "Sure! I'm done."


Temi states, "I think we can do it entirely with building settings."


Temi states, "But.. there would be a loooot of them"


Kuzco asks, "Maybe less fillets scaled to less fishing skill?"


Kinaed trails off, "In the interests of time..."


Kuzco says, "(or husbandry)"

Kinaed claims to Valkyrie, "Your turn! Please introduce us to your topic."


Souless states, "I think I have a brief topic, if we have time. More just.. A suggestion, I think."


Valkyrie questions, "Looking at HELP SOUTHSIDE, the ones not allowed in are Reeves, Knights,
gentryfolk or nobles. Freemen Clergy and Inquisitors should be allowed access? For whatever reason
Clergy Acolytes aren't part of the group that are allowed in. Is that intended or more of an
oversight?"

Kinaed says to Souless, "Adding you to the list. Our list is pretty long atm, we may not get through
everyone. Please pre-type your topic."


Temi claims, "Clergy acolytes should be allowed"


Temi states, "If they are not gentry/noble"


Souless nods.


Joel claims, "Yea, it seems like a bug."


Anonymous queries, "I wonder why they don't want knights in there. Are knights just all considered
gentry by default?"


Anonymouse queries, "If you're part of X group that is allowed in, but also Y group that is not, the
net of that is that you're not welcome?"


Temi queries, "Is this just requiring an accept, or actually having problems?"


Boobermann says, "Knights aren't, no."

say Per help sumptuary, they are.

OneWing claims, "Per help sumptuary, they are."


Anonymouse states, "Knights are gentry, yes."


Valkyrie states, "Can verify I wasn't allowed when I tried. I did bug board it, wanted to see if it
was intended or not however."


Joel claims, "Temi, the one acolyte who tried, freeman, couldn't."


Kuzco says, "Squires are also not allowed, regardless of class"


Sparkles states, "That might be something that should be noted better in chargen."


Kuzco claims, "Being knighted no longer makes tou gentry"


Boobermann states, "Knights aren't 'gentry' codedly anymore"

Temi questions to Joel, "What does couldn't mean?"


Kinaed states, "It is intended, not a bug. Any type of 'powerful force' won't have individual access
to Southside. They can go in with large groups, however."


Kuzco states, "I remember Ianthe had this isue"


Preposterous claims, "They have the respect of gentry, but I do not believe they are codely."

nod prepos
They aren't here.

nod preposterous
They aren't here.

Joel claims to Temi, "What I tried to say is that the one freeman acolyte I saw who tried to enter
southside, couldn't do so."

nod Preposterous
They aren't here.


Kuzco claims, "Huh"

Temi states to Joel, "Anyone CAN enter southside."

Temi questions to Joel, "What blocker did they run up on?"


Joel states, "Well, yes, but got the southside warning."

Temi nods.


Valkyrie claims, "Safely, Temi "


Rothe says, "They ran into a guy with a club"


Joel claims, "And coming out alive "


Temi states, "The southside warning, thank you."


Valkyrie claims, "Sorry, should have been clear about that from the start."


Rothe states, "He said it was a big club and you aint in it"


Chipotle claims, "... I find it a little strange if Southside is wholesale hostile to the clergy in
such an environment without being burned to the ground, but alas."


Temi says, "I'm not sure if it is consistent across all mobs and warning xblocks"


Kinaed claims, "Unfortunately, our code doesn't differentiate knights and clergy well. I'm sure it's
an excellent opportunity for relations if the Order wants to ask the BH to provide safe passage for
specific members."


Condensation claims, "I think there's just no way Clergy and Knights are seperated. That's just it.
Nothing RP wise."


Kinaed says, "But it is not a bug."


Valkyrie says, "I can take a more in-depth look around all the blockers and report it in a note if
you'd like."


Kinaed says, "Staff are aware of how it works, it's not a bug."

Sleeper is idle.


Rothe asks, "So brotherhood can apply individual exceptions for SS access?"


Chipotle states, "It should be noted in helpfiles, then, because this is something that could
actually lead to character death, and the helpfiles speak against the staff intent."

Joel states to Kinaed, "Actually that's an excellent point, BH can provide access indeed, even to
gentry, knights and reeves."

Kinaed nods at Rothe.

Sleeper is no longer idle.
Sleeper has returned from AFK.


Rothe says, "Welp, here comes amsome RP"


Kinaed says, "I believe it is noted somewhere, but please typo board it and we'll look into that
further."

Valkyrie nods.


Joel says, "They can also say that they did and then murder you."


Temi says, "ICly, priests and acolytes should be welcome as long as they aren't seeming too hoity
-toity."


Chipotle says, "'The danger in the area typically makes it an unwise idea for Knights or Reeves to
investigate in Southside, and it is common for crimes that happen there to go unreported and
unsolved unless they concern damage or danger to Northside citizens as well.' Note it specifies
Reeves and Knights."


Chipotle states, "'keep out those they consider to not belong: Reeves, Knights and Knights-to-be,
gentryfolk and nobles. '"


Chipotle says, "Help southside."


Temi claims, "But there may be limitations on telling them apart from knights."


Condensation claims, "Do they wear steel. Yes? Is Knight. No. Likely the other group."


Kinaed says, "I can happily update the help file if it's deemed inadequate. Please simply typo board
it."


Rothe trails off, "Wear a mask and leave your steel, and nothing bad will happen... probably"


Kinaed states, "Actually, a Knight probably wouldn't go around 24-7 in platemail."


Chipotle claims, "I'll do so. Seems people are going to have to wrap the IC around the code issue"


Kinaed says, "Probably most Orderites would be viewed as likely knights"


Chipotle states, "Not so, Rothe - specific things are needed to fool the NPCs."

Kuzco has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

say And pages are not allowed to wear armor, for context.

OneWing says, "And pages are not allowed to wear armor, for context."


Valkyrie questions, "Knights don't really wear robes do they?"


Rothe says, "Squishy ones do"


Kinaed states, "Okay, let's look at our next topic "

Kinaed says to Anonymouse, "You're up "


Chipotle says, "The IC of this is pretty dubious, but I'll just use suspension of disbelief."


Anonymouse claims, "Someone else wanted to bring this up, but they're not here, so it falls to me!
Cyans: Love 'em or hate 'em, they're the future of TI, so can we please keep in mind to try and
encourage their RP wherever possible? We're mostly great at being friendly in visnet, but there's
been a few times where a brand new player has been ignored or directly called out for making
mechanical mistakes, and that stuff is SUPER discouraging. MUDs are hard, and mistakes get made. The
Policy (somewhere) states to give them preferential treatment, so if your IC is 50/50 on a subject,
please be flexible and give them the benefit of the doubt."


Kinaed says, "I appreciate this sentiment."


Rothe claims, "Yeah sorry everyone for all the noob questions"

Temi nods in agreement.


Phoenix claims, "I am new to muds in general and brought some other people into this so yea MUDs are
SUPER HARD if you never played em before. "


Anonymouth states, "Related to that: If you are cyan and are confused-- ASK QUESTIONS!! Visnet for
general, Osay for scene-specific or pressing ones. I really encourage it if something is confusing
you, especially if you're unsure how to emote."


Joel says, "I disagree, there should be no hate here at all. Especially towards cyans. So just love
them, big time."

Kinaed says to Rothe, "Not at all I think the answering questions is the easy part. I think it's
restraining some of our more 'IC' behaviors that can come across as really nasty that's harder,
particularly for those of us who are playing characters that aren't very nice."

Kinaed smiles at Phoenix.

Kinaed states to Phoenix, "Thank you for bringing people in."


Joel trails off, "Not nice characters vs cyan can be tricky..."


Anonymouse asks, "If a cyan is feeling discouraged, would it be okay for them to ask in OSAY, and
have the player in question explain their motivations a little?"


Phoenix says, "Im just trying to have people to play with in european times "


Joel says, "Yes, Anonymouse."

Kinaed says to Anonymouse, "Probably."

Kinaed nods at Phoenix.


Anonymouth says, "I think it's important to clarify OOC vs IC. Players have no obligation to make
their characters ICly 'nice' if it's against their personality, correct? But should be OOCly
friendly and inclusive as much as possible."


Rothe says, "I met a very rude PC (rude in character) and it was actually kind of nice after a chain
of people making sure i was ok. "

Temi grins.


Preposterous states, "I... don't know about that. Explaining IC actions OOCly is... that would be
uncomfortable for me."

Kinaed nods at Anonymouth.


Chipotle says, "... man, you know, this does keep getting brought up every week. I do my absolute
best to help cyans out, and I haven't witnessed this behavior. Do we have particular repeat
'offenders'? It doesn't seem like OOC chat bringing it up is fixing the problem, and it bothers me
to think this is happening consistently."


Condensation claims, "Same, Preposterous."


Temi claims, "Rude or angry or dramatic types of situations can be a lot of fun for even new
players, as long as you know you didn't actually make a mistake and haven't ruined everything"


Anonymouse trails off, "If we did, calling them out here would be pretty poor form..."


Preposterous states, "I think it'd cause a lot of, "Why are you doing this, I don't understand." And
that's taking IC actions OOCly."


Anonymouth declares, "Seconding Chipotle and Preposterous. This keeps being brought up, are there
problem characters? If so, report to staff!"


Kinaed says, "I would appreciate it if the players of our nastier IC characters do make an effort to
OOCly keep in mind about how to moderate their approach without making their character sunshine in
the best interests of the game."


Phoenix wonders, "I did have to explain to my friend that another char is mad at her char and not at
her. so uh, maybe just follow up with new players and explain - yea im not mad at you player to
player?"

say You need to cyan warn before acting against a cyan and explaining IC actions OOCly will be
perceived as pressuring through osay. People also like to not cyan warn before acting against a
cyan.

OneWing says, "You need to cyan warn before acting against a cyan and explaining IC actions OOCly
will be perceived as pressuring through osay. People also like to not cyan warn before acting
against a cyan."


Preposterous states, "That makes me uncomfortable, too. Again, crossing IC/OOC lines."


Kinaed claims, "Sort of like the 'my guy' idea at a tabletop session - sometimes IC doesn't trump a
player's impact on the game or game health in general - and there are ways to make it clear that a
character is ICly nasty, but not OOCly so."


Anonymouse claims, "The thing is, there is ALWAYS going to be ic/ooc overlap, especially as a new
player. You're just trying to find your niche, and if you get stonewalled IC, you're going to be
like 'well crap what's the point'"

Rothe says, "Well in this case it played out ICly but i considered asking OOC what was the problem.
never really had that problem. as a new player i must say i feel exceptionally welcome here"


Preposterous states, "Like, explaining OOCly. Warn, yes."


Condensation claims, "And well, Chipotle, I saw it plenty. People hang out in public yet do not
emote outside their friend bubble in, say, the Queen, and so then there's several folk left out who
just have nothing to emote at and it feels really exclusive. the whole 'ignored' part definitely
feels true."


Kinaed states, "Just in chosen wording in emotes and the like."

Kinaed nods at Anonymouse.


Anonymous states, "IC social dynamics sometimes make that the case."


Joel states, "Though i want to say that just because they are ignored as cyan doesn't mean that the
"established" person is always at fault. Lets not jump to judgement the other way around."


Chipotle claims, "Right, Anoymouse, but my intent was asking staff that, not... for people to air
out specific characters. Miscommunication. Is this a wide playerbase issue, are the complaints
legitimate, is it just a mismatch of styles that puts people off...? It's very hard to parse this
and modify behavior if I'm not even sure whether I'm part of the problem or not."


Anonymous states, "Complaining that cyans don't automatically get invited into a small group of well
known individuals, like when a a certain cyan freeman appears but then gets OOCly offended because
two nobles aren't including them in their conversation, is a non-starter"


Temi claims, "I think we'd need more information to say."


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Anyway, we do specifically give players access to the osay channel when
RPing with cyan players, so if necessary you can say 'My character is just like this, please don't
give up - I'm not the end of the world'"


Temi says, "I haven't seen much in the way of examples in my limited time on grid"


Rothe claims, "I have problems with large scenes like that too, its hard to figure out how to juggle
an established mini scene in a larger scene to cater to a new player"
Kinaed nods at Temi.


Anonymouse says, "I think Kinaed's point is a great idea: Please use OSAY to reassure cyans if
you're doing something discouraging ICly"


Preposterous claims, "I will mention that there are ways to target people to note that 1) they
weren't noticed and the other person is engaged in an engrossing conversation or 2) they are being
ICly ignored, or 3) they are being included. All of those ways, target is made in pose or emote, and
they are aware of where they stand ICly."


Sparkles states, "Also sometimes folks are included but I'm not sure they always notice."


Rothe says, "Anonymous i think thats more of a class thing than a cyan thing"


Condensation states, "You'd be surprised how often they just do not even emote that they're busy,
and you just see the whole jemote thing."


Kinaed states, "I would say there's nothing wrong with that noble group being unusually polite
either. I got into TI originally because the Crown Princess at the time decided to RP with me, and
we have the Law of Caring that thematically says that nobles serve the populace, so it'd be pretty
unDavite to eschew a commoner on that basis"

Kinaed nods at preposterous.


Joel claims, "I think my first ever Rp on ti was my poor out of chargen freeman being merrrily
included by few nobles and gentry into a scene. I was overwhelmed and i twas lovely."


Joel states, "What's wrong with that, law of charity and all that."

Kinaed nods at Joel.


Preposterous says, "A nobleperson can be nice while still being... thematic. They just treat people
as unequals. Teach them things. Look down on them - but include them."


Kinaed states, "Oh, Law of CHARITY. I knew it was something like that."


Phoenix I agree that IC social dynamics do feel like you just can't break in, but I don't see a fix
for that, it's the natural thing to happen. Guilds help somewhat at least. I also must say that I
agree that player base has been very very friendly. From my experience.. the start needs a lot of
handholding. I got it from a friend and I'm providing it to friends, but for people who dont have
that I can see them being overwhelmed with how to do things. but I also dont see a fix for that.

Kinaed nods at preposterous.


Preposterous claims, "I mean teach them things like... how they should be having. Etc."


Phoenix says OOCly, "Uh, sorry"


Anonymous states, "My eyesss"


Phoenix declaims, "Sorry!"


Joel exclaims, "Burn the witch!"


Anonymouse exclaims, "That's UNCLEAN colour tags!!"


Kinaed says, "It's worth noting that thematically, Gentry also try to mimic nobility, so they should
be jumping in on the Law of Charity too"


Anonymouth claims, "I kinda like the red"


Anonymouth says, "Makes things look all sinister"


Sleeper says OOCly, "...that color change stings...""


Kinaed trails off, "Okay, sorry folks - but in the interests of time..."


Valkyrie states, "The red scared me a bit honestly."

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "I believe it is your turn "


Phoenix fixed?

Valkyrie nods.


Chipotle declaims, "FIxed!"

Cat has left the game.


Rothe claims, "Spaaaaarkles"

Kinaed asks of Sparkles, "Are you there? It's your turn to introduce a topic "


Sparkles states, "I'd like to bring up the idea of Bards being able to see rumours they quash. Being
able to quash rumors is a major social power and I'm often asked to do so by various people for
various reasons, however, I can no longer kind of hussle that ability and see if I need to
beg/bribe/harass others to make the rumour shush if one can't see it."


Anonymous says, "Frankly I think everyone should be able to see rumors they quash"


Anonymouth states, "I like the idea of it being a special Bard ability."


Kinaed questions, "Odd, why can't you see it? Is this a code change that came in?"


Anonymous says, "It's not like you just 'forgot' what was said, or turn magically deaf to it."

Cat wanders into the vicinity. [login]


Anonymous states, "We've never been able to see rumors we quash. We lose access to them"


Yinadele says, "Last time rumor quash being non visible came up, we were told it was intended."


Kinaed queries, "Oh, you mean after it's successful, you can't look back?"

Chipotle says, "I agree with this as either a Bard ability or common. @Kinaed, you can't interact
with rumors you quash."


Yinadele claims, "Should be in one of the fairly recent OOC meeting logs."


Yinadele says, "Yep."


Anonymouse claims, "You quash a rumor, you lose it, even if it's still around."


Yinadele says, "If you quash a rumor, it COMPLETELY disappears for you."


Yinadele states, "In list, all, etc."


Yinadele states, "Even trying to directly cite it."

Temi claims to Kinaed, "We added that due to people going crazy over rumors they didn't like and
wanted to get rid of. The idea being people won't talk to you about it anymore."


Preposterous says, "Well, quashing it is supposed to... make it go away. But, for troubs, I can see
why they'd still need to see it to see if it's gone."

say It being bard-exclusive would make sense, though.

OneWing states, "It being bard-exclusive would make sense, though."

Temi says to Kinaed, "We could potentially try again and see if people are more reasonable about it
in the current rumor system."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Anonymouth exclaims, "I agree that if you're lik "UGH, that's false, go away!" people wouldn't keep
gossiping to you about it"


Anonymous claims, "Doesn't mean you don't overhear them the first time."


Joel says, "Maybe give people option to just opt out of hearing rumors. They are vicious, hurtful
and if you don't like them, just opt out of the whole system."


Anonymous states, "Or can't overhera them talking in public"


Kinaed states, "I think we can certainly add it to our list and have a look at it. It's problematic
because it's a code change, and those are slow for us at the moment, but noting it"


Rothe claims, "Rumors are so weird"


Phoenix claims, "Only when you are the affected. people love arguing about rumors, even when you
squash em."


Temi claims, "We also wanted to encourage people to redirect rumors and change the story on them,
instead of just trying to get rumors to go away if they don't like them"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

say Rumors are very weird. They make people famous that aren't because a small minority keeps
promoting them.

OneWing claims, "Rumors are very weird. They make people famous that aren't because a small minority
keeps promoting them."

Kinaed claims to Boobermann, "I believe it is now your turn to introduce us to a topic "


Preposterous states, "Or the same people are mentioned in rumors over and over. Yeah."


Condensation says, "I don't like them much at all. It feels selective as heck."


Chipotle declares, "We have had many examples of people redirecting rumors recently, really!"


Anonymouth pontificates, "Make a rumor about yourself! Pay people to promote them!"


Boobermann states, "I feel like the cyan warning system could be a little bit expanded upon or
clarified n the help files as to just not 'ignore' RP sometimes when it comes to situations where
there is no direct IC danger. Otherwise, a minority of cyans can invoke the 'warn' card like it's a
free get out of jail free card per se and avoid ANY consequences for 75rp hours until they're
established.

I think it's fine to use it in cases where you're going to be executed, jailed or pyred due to an
obvious newbie mistake. But for other things, people tend to use it to stifle RP if it's affecting
them negatively."


Joel trails off, "Some people just do a lot of rumor-worthy stuff..."


Preposterous says, "Remember that you can make your own rumors, too."


Temi states, "I think really it's intended for permanent consequences and big effects, not every
negative response."


Sparkles claims, "On the other side I've heard people sometimes use cyan warnings to basically flex
on cyans and basically hype themselves."


Rothe asks, "Wait, so i can get into trouble and pull the noob card???"


Preposterous states, "Stifle RP - I don't see that. Warn is supposed to be used if the actions would
put them in IC danger. It's not supposed to be used to say, 'oh, you made me mad'."


Joel claims, "Boobermann That's... curious. It shouldn't be get out of jail free, but a warning that
if you continue to do as you do, there will be OC consequences."


Joel states, "IC*"


Joel states, "So if then they continue on that path, well, fun starts."


Rothe claims, "Yes joel that was my understanding too"


Kinaed says, "I think someone came to me for a policy decision this week where a cyan player had
suggested that they shouldn't get in trouble in a non-arrest/no PK situation for something that
happened - generally, I didn't think the situation would have warranted a cyan warning, and said
so."


Anonymouth states, "I have mad respect for cyans and cyan warns, but I agree with this. I've seen a
character recently that insisted on a cyan warn when called out for bad behavior IC, then requested
the entire relevant scene be rescinded"


Preposterous claims, "And, if the person chooses to continue as they are, those IC consequences will
come. And if several people warn them of the same behaviors over a few days, staff can track that.
It means... they've continued that dangerous behavior."

Temi nods.


Joel states, "I mean, if someone responds to a cyan warning by saying "oh, I dind't know X would
offend" I'll just skirt the issue, but if then they bring X again, all bets are off."


Rothe states, "Anon that sounds like abuse of cyan protection"


Temi says, "It's not a removal of consequences, it's a chance to back out of bad decisions and redo
things."


Anonymous queries, "Can you two change your ooc names back to whatever they were so people don't
confuse you for me?"


Kinaed says, "But I feel like this may be an issue more linked to particular players rather than
cyans, and I'm not mad at cyans for going 'look, do you mind if we adjust what happened ICly? I'm
new and didn't know better' - PROVIDED they actually are new and don't know any better."


Preposterous claims, "Right, it shouldn't renig entire scenes - especially if it is sent on the
first pose that could cause danger."

Joel nods at Kinaed.


Joel says, "Can always scuff it off as "didn't hear you right" excuse and move on."


Rothe states, "Anonymous is a very common name in this town"


Boobermann says, "The problem is sometimes it forces players and sometimes even GLs into
uncomfortable situations OOC when it's invoked onto someone"


Preposterous states, "If people are taking advantage of it for bad behavior, knowingly, and then
using it as a 'save me' card, that's not ok."


Joel claims, "Though I think when you suspect abuse, just have to let staff know. WE don't have the
knowledge to be able to judge."


Rothe states, "I think people are agreeing on this, also i think the wording of cyan protection is
already correctly stated"


Kinaed claims, "I think cyan protection is important, and I do get frustrated with the fact that
certain players can't get over cyan protection making their lives harder. It's perfectly valid to
just null the RP entirely if figuring out a nice in between won't work."


NOTAnonymous states, "I think there's a challenge with cyan warn when the player enforcing theme is
-not- the player who initially observed the indiscretion"


Chipotle says, "Yeah, Rothe, that is what the topic is about. With that said - personally, I find it
really hard to use cyan warning as-written because I'm almost never sure if it's necessary. The most
prolific uses I've seen of it have been... less than great, come across as an aggression upon the
cyan OOCly (often - because the cyan warning is EXTREMELY scary), and I tend to just... err toward
not acting at all."


Kinaed says, "And I'd also say that, in 15 years of running the game, last week's 'cyan warning
abuse' was pretty unique."


Anonymous states, "The big red WARN message is spooky lol"


Preposterous states, "I have had someone go ahead and purchase established after a cyan warning when
they intended the action and were ready for the consequences. I think... that is a valid thing, and
maybe some people should use it if they are cyan troublemakers."


Preposterous states, "Uh, IC troublemakers, not OOC."


NOTAnonymous muses, "Often characters in theme-enforcement roles are receiving information that
-others- directly observed through mail/courier, or are hearing rumors. Should they be warning
characters in these circumstances?"


Valkyrie says, "Purchase established would mean you wouldn't be allowed into chargen anymore
either."

Kinaed says to NOTAnonymous, "Potentially, yes."


Kinaed says, "Or at least checking that the cyan was warned."


Phoenix muses, "Purchase established?"


Anonymous says, "It instantly removes your cyan status"


Rothe states, "Kinaed well sounds like its not a trend then maybe a non issue.

Chipotle i can appreciate that, a sudden osay warning mid rp can be an uncomfortable break"


Condensation states, "It gets you out of cyan status."


Anonymous states, "In case you dont want to be cyan anymore"

say Cyans are unestablished. And we are supposed to help them get established, that means to cyan
warn to help them do so, including when they do not know. Help cyan protection does say so. And
danger can also come from repute. Not just from PK or jail.

OneWing states, "Cyans are unestablished. And we are supposed to help them get established, that
means to cyan warn to help them do so, including when they do not know. Help cyan protection does
say so. And danger can also come from repute. Not just from PK or jail."


Joel states, "There are many ways to handle the scenes as GI's, reeves etc. You can go and drop a
hammer on a player (any player really) or use it as a teaching opporunity. If its a cyan, and you
the learn that they made OOC mistake, well, turn it into a teaching moment."


Rothe claims, "Wait i havent seen the big red message"

Wimpled has left the game.


Joel claims, "I had that done by a reeve on my first thief when he was caught in middle of someones
pocket hah."


Chipotle says, "In my case, at least, the cyan warning system involves enough OOC friction that it
makes me reticent to pursue those courses of actions with cyan characters whatsoever. I tend to just
let it go by."

[OOC] NOTAnonymous has sent a cyan protection offer to Rothe.


Kinaed claims, "If it's not leading to death or jail, I'd say it's probably not something Policy
would hold a player accountable for a cyan warning. "


Kinaed claims, "It may be something that it'd be courteous to provide a warning for, but it's not
something I would waste my time going after."


NotRothe states, "Hahaha thats not scarey"


Boobermann trails off, "Sometimes it's not easy to let go because it... well, risks you or your
guild's reputation for example"


Boobermann claims, "And when even first GLs cannot enforce that it can be discouraging for them"


Kinaed states, "Okay, we've still got more topics, and we're fast running out of time, so.."

Kinaed muses to Phoenix, "You're up Please introduce us to your topic?"

say "It also means that they may not know the system and are expected to be warned (HELP WARN) of
any danger they bring their character into contact with to help them understand the culture and
attitudes of TI." Is what helpfile for cyans says. And disrepute, people acting unknowingly or
unaware, is a danger.

OneWing says, ""It also means that they may not know the system and are expected to be warned (HELP
WARN) of any danger they bring their character into contact with to help them understand the culture
and attitudes of TI." Is what helpfile for cyans says. And disrepute, people acting unknowingly or
unaware, is a danger."


NotRothe claims, "Never seen that, thanks for showing me"


Souless claims, "If mine doesn't get touched on this week, that's fine. I can just post a request
board about it."


NOTAnonymous exclaims, "Happy to help!"


Phoenix states, "Very short: I want to see the brotherhood be more active. That would be fun I
think. Dunno how because I don't know much about em, I'd just like to see them more often."

Kinaed claims to Souless, "We'll try "


Joel says, "They are active."


Phoenix claims, "(sorry, didnt expect for my turn to come up at all)"


NOTAnonymous claims, "There -are- active BCG members, and they're doing a great job."


Joel claims, "Not seeing them is a good sing "

look
A Comfortable Room
[Perfect]
A plethora of gaily coloured silk pillows with fringes and tassels
completely conceal the floor. A large pillow in the corner stands out, a
brooding black mass of velvet and fringeless. Screens of nature scenes
painted with the spare strokes of a brush that hint at and outline the
subjects, leaving much to the imagination. Behind the screens, silk
curtains and sheets painted with bright patterns hide the walls, pulled
back only around the windows that pierce the southern and western walls to
look out over a lush garden filled with an untamed riot of plants and
trees.

[ Exits: down ] [ Air exits: none ]
( 12)The Turf Wars Specification almost glows where it sits. (eastern edge)
Cat is here.
Sleeper is here.
Shamra is here.
NOTAnonymous is here.
Boobermann is here.
Condensation is here.
Sparkles is here.
preposterous is here.
Chipotle is here.
Yinadele is here.
Souless is here.
notRothe is here.
Joel is here.
Phoenix is here.
Valkyrie is here.
Anonymous is here.
Temi is here.
Anonymouse is here.
Kinaed is here.


Boobermann claims, "BCG is doing pretty good"


Preposterous says, "Yeah, pretty sure they're active and doing stuff."

NOTAnonymous says, "Imo. You just might not see them around 'cause they're sneaky "


Chipotle claims, "Something, something, ninjas."


Sparkles says, "You might not always know whether they are or aren't."

Kinaed claims to Phoenix, "There are lovely BH members doing their thing, I promise "


Phoenix states, "Oh good. then next topic "

Temi says to Phoenix, "I think they are always recruiting for more people! But when they do there
best stuff, they may not be visible."


Condensation states, "What Joel said. Active clergy would be cool, though."


NotRothe queries, "Is there some kind of guild with the university or is that not a thing?"


Anonymous says, "It used to be a Scholar guild I think, but that went away"


Joel states, "Uni wasn't a formal guild for a long time, but some people did rp it just fine."


Souless states, "I had some fun RP with the BH recently, actually."


Sparkles states, "There isn't but people can RP being in it. You could work joining it into some of
the other Guilds as well."


Souless says, "And I really appreciated it. "


Temi states, "Univeristy has a roster position if someone wants to officially run it"


Condensation says, "There is still a university. No guild though. You could set it up, somehow,like
a player-ran subguild."


Temi claims, "Otherwise, it can be an IC background for people to connect with it"


Phoenix says, "I wish i had the time for three chars so i could join the bh "


Preposterous states, "There are active clergy. If you aren't connecting with the ones you want to
connect to, consider IG mail or pboard."


NotRothe wonders, "What would they do?"


Anonymous says, "I think by clergy they meant actual priests"


Anonymous claims, "Not inquisitors and knights"


Joel queries, "Speaking of thieves, I got a small short PSA if we got the time?"


NOTAnonymous pontificates, "People have been holding lectures in the University! (and should
continue to do so, 'cause it's cool)"


Preposterous claims, "The Archbishop is a priest, not an inquisitor."


Kinaed queries, "Anonymous topic: say Right now, there are no ways to safe attack and pool
improvised weapons at all. This makes things really hard and disadvantegeous to train. Is there any
way to introduce this at all and perhaps a safe attack weapon that pools improvised?"


Preposterous says, "As is Amathyste."


Anonymous claims, "Okay thats one, and her time is often at an extreme premium, hence the need for
more"


NotRothe wonders, "Would the hniversity just host teaching classes?"


Boobermann claims, "Yes, improvised please."


Joel declares, "Yes, training padded bar mugs to practice brawling with!"


Sparkles says, "Frying pan."


Kinaed claims, "I'll note this for staff discussion."


Anonymous says, "You could probably get away with just letting improvised weapons use SAFE attack
carte blanche"


Valkyrie states, "I'm trying to become a fully fledged priestess, but the lack of active clergy
makes training hard."


Anonymous claims, "Rather than have to come up with a 'training' weapon for it"


Condensation says OOCly, "Oh. I mean any of the Clergy, really. Aco-Priest-Inq-etc. IT's tough
immerse into the religious side of TIL if you do not ever see them or run into them, but folk did
mention ... i think last week, on OOC or visnet.. that clergy are generally always on a low number."


Condensation fails.


Preposterous claims, "OH! I just thought of something. If there's not time, it can wait."


NOTAnonymous says, "I'd love a way to train improvised without hitting people with beer bottles."


NotRothe states, "I want to attend an improvized weapon lecture at the university"

Chipotle says, "I do have something I wanted to note, which might be of some discussion."


Condensation states, "I was worried unarmed attacking with a sheathed weapon would pool my
improvised. It only shows up as (improved) on your COmbat though, for some reason."

Kinaed questions to Souless, "Lucky last - please introduce us to your topic?"


Boobermann states, "It pools unarmed"


Condensation claims, "I know."


Preposterous says, "Yeah, there's Emere, Raylene, Amathyste, Phyllis, all active. However, there's
also apps open, so if you want more, feel free to app in as one."

Kinaed claims to Chipotle, "You can go after SOuless."


Souless claims, "I was just hoping to suggest some new paper decorations. Like, a blanket paper
sculpture of some sort."

Kinaed claims to Souless, "Cool - will make a note."


Temi states, "That fal"


Souless states, "We mentioned globes in last weeks chat, so."


Temi states, "That falls to Niamh's decisions"


Kinaed questions, "Okay, we have two more topics - is it okay if we stick around to do those?"

Joel nods.


Souless nods.


Anonymous says, "Go for it"

Sparkles nods.


Cat nods.

Shamra nods.


Yinadele exclaims, "I'm good!"


Kinaed makes a note about paper sculptures.

Valkyrie nods.


NOTAnonymous nods.


NotRothe says, "I have a question too if theres time"


Chipotle pontificates, "Same, ready!"


Phoenix nods.

Kinaed muses to preposterous, "Won't you introduce us to your topic?"

Sleeper is idle.


Preposterous claims, "I was going to ask about the possibility of opening noble applications again."

Kinaed finishes abruptly to Chipotle, "Ifyou have something, please type it up - I jotted you down
as wanting to bring something up"


Chipotle says, "I have it pre-written."

Kinaed claims to preposterous, "Oh, thanks for the reminder. I'll put that on the agenda for today's
staff meeting"


Preposterous says, "We have a few active nobles, some who come around once in a blue moon, and a
bunch of inactive. It'd be nice to have more around."


NotRothe claims, "I got mine preeritten"


Joel says, "If you have interesting concept for noble you can always apply, if its really good,
staff can make a slot just for you."

Kinaed trails off to notRothe, "Oh, I missed you entirely. Okay..."


Preposterous has a noble. Not asking for herself.

Temi states to Joel, "Nooo"

Joel asks of Temi, "Not true anymore?"

Kinaed claims to Chipotle, "Please introduce your topic "


Chipotle wonders, "What is the intended difficulty of the Park Street trainer NPCs? I feel that they
might be too strong for the pool they give and the price involved (especially for freemen and new
players). As a combat-focused character, I find them relatively difficult to overcome even when I'm
close to or above the skill level where they stop pooling. As a non-combat character, the Training
Hall was nigh-useless and a significant waste of money (especially as a new character with low
attributes) because I was slaughtered. Is this around what is intended? I think encouraging IC
training through PCs is reasonable, but this is pretty incongruent with the difficulty, time input,
and accessibility of training other skills. It doesn't help that you can't pool down WHILE training
combat, either. Related, as my perspective and experience is only my own: If anyone out there has
tried to utilize the Training Hall on a less-than-'optimal' character recently, have you felt it
worth your time/silver?"

Temi says to Joel, "I will reject the application and move it to the bottom of priorities out of
sheer spite. We do NOT welcome applications for unopened positions"

Joel declaims to Temi, "Fair enough, I take it back!"


Condensation states, "They're a bit random. Sometimes, they own't defend once, but most of the time,
I can beat them to the point they escort me out over being kicked out."


Sparkles claims, "Tips there include wear armor and get them to switch to a different weapon."


Joel states, "There are free/cheaper ways to train combat than trainers. They really are a last
resort."


Anonymous says, "I get the feeling that the NPCs there are intentionally overtuned to encourage you
to train with a player"


Valkyrie states, "A good set of armor can alleviate it a bit. It's probably to promote RP and fight
other players instead of the NPCs."


Preposterous claims, "I thought that I've seen applications approved when they haven't been open
before, for things like nobility. But they may have been special circumstances or may have asked
ahead of time."


Anonymous says, "Much like how NPC shops are way overpriced to encourage player trade"


Condensation claims, "There's plenty PCs I know who appreciate sparring and combat emoting. The
reason they're expensive is to promote player-to-player combat RP more."

Kinaed says to preposterous, "We don't approve applications when roles aren't open, no."

Preposterous nods.


Boobermann states, "Could ask Reeves and such to help you train."


Temi claims, "They have descriptions on the NPCs for the ones you pay in the main room to sort of
divide them into categories"


Joel claims, "Reeves, knights, random bartenders. Ask and you can form your own little fight club."


Temi states, "But I don't think there's exact cut-offs on when one or another is good."


Souless claims, "A fight club might not actually a bad idea."


Condensation says, "Plenty matchmaker hooks of non-knight or non-reeves feature sparring too. Look,
and you shall find plenty eager combatants I think."


Valkyrie says, "Also you can tell the trainer which weapon to switch to one that better suits your
defenses."


Chipotle states, "Given that sparring with other players gives incredibly marginal pool in
comparison, I don't consider it a viable alternative if you're training from the bottom (especially
compared to direct teaching). I put time into my emotes, and if I'm roleplaying, I tend to do it for
a reason. That said, on a personal level I'm completely fine - I can train well with the NPCs at my
level to a certain point. The problem is, I'm a character with very high combat focus."


NOTAnonymous says, "AHHH! this. I've tested all 3 of the training rooms and never get more than
'Very little' pool. I'm not upset with the cost, but I do get frustrated with the small amount of
pool when you -do- pay for it."


Joel says, "Can always spend QP in chargen and get your skills way high off the bat."


Sparkles states, "That's based on your stats as well."


Yinadele states, "It's less about expensive than direct functionality. Especially for newbies and
non-combat characters."


Condensation states, "Players can also TEACH you combat skills. There's various trainers. I get to
'Some' after my first round with the trainers, and I've had spars which got me higher."


Chipotle says, "There are very few other skills that are this difficult to train on your own, and
that gives so little with their 'normal' usage. And yes, Joel, that's absolutely the problem."


Yinadele trails off, "Newbies don't have QP to spend in cgen..."


Chipotle says, "Be a newbie, train from zero. Try it out. It doesn't work."


Sparkles claims, "If you are combat focused so made Con/Strength/Dex your main stats, you'll pool
slower."


Kinaed states, "I think it's working well for some, and I'd recommend trying to find PC sparring
partners as it earns better returns on all levels, from RP to the amount of pool you get"


Valkyrie says, "Nothing wrong paying someone ten silver to hold a shield and defend while you keep
hammering them "


Joel states, "I also have to add that even with non-master skills, you are still good to go into
most PVP stuations, as long as it's not a 1v1."


Anonymous claims, "There is at least one person online at the moment who never, and I do mean
literally NEVER turns down spars"


Joel claims, "So when in training, don't go into a dangerous situation alone and you are in great
shape."


Preposterous states, "I'd say that's subjective, Joel."

Temi nods.


Preposterous states, "Unless you've been in PvP situations, that's... hard to decide. PvE, sure.
PvP, different."


Temi states, "Ganging up is a great strategy with big advantages, though not a guarantee."


Joel states, "There are veery few characters that will win 2v1. I had been in PVP quite a lot."


Kinaed trails off, "Okay, we're almost 10 minutes over... so if we might jump to our next topic ...
"

Kinaed muses to notRothe, "I believe you had one for us? "


NotRothe muses, "is there a way to tell what would be gained by committing a learn slot to forage
before committing the learn slot? other skills are easy to look at for top crafting potential, or
effectiveness, but forage is largely a mystery... what would it be like to be a grandmaster or
master or adept forager?"


Preposterous states, "I was talking about yoru comment about being ok 1 v 1."


Valkyrie grumbles something about compensation for overwork.


Chipotle claims, "PC sparring partners are incredibly slow in comparison. I feel like a lot of the
input here is coming from a 'privileged' perspective of having had QP to spend on combat skills, or
having had enough money that it wasn't an issue, but I'll recede; apparently people haven't
experienced the same."


Preposterous says, "Depends on who you're fighting, and what their end goal is."


Souless claims, "I think that's not a bad idea."


Temi says, "For crafting skills you can tell with the -all argument"


Souless claims, "I agree, too. "


Valkyrie says, "Forge isn' a crafting skill is what he's getting at."


Condensation says, "I started from 36, I've got several masters and a grandmaster in under two
months. Only had three training sessions. It was more of a pain leveling some crafts."


Valkyrie says, "Forage*"


NOTAnonymous says, "Speaking of forage. Can we have an 'inv item' type command for forage? I -cannot
- manage to forage a handful of dried nuts. Either get beechnuts or dried currants"


Temi claims, "But with some others, eyah it's hard to tell."


Kinaed says, "I've never personally been super into foraging, but I know it's a popular skill."


Sparkles states, "There's an IC book that hints what's available."

Temi nods at Sparkles.


Temi says, "True"


Joel states, "I kinda don't want there to be a list of "with gm forage in this location you can find
X""


Condensation claims, "Me neither."


Kinaed claims, "Perhaps it is something one can ICly ask around about."


NotRothe exclaims, "Ok that IC book I shall look for!"


Souless trails off, "Still, a way to list what you can find..."


Kinaed says, "You can also ask other people if they forage, and if they've ever found anything
great, etc"


Souless queries, "I think the book is out of date?"


Sparkles states, "Also, to the person asking, there is a paper sculpture, arguably, you can use
Artwork recipe 1418."


Condensation wonders, "Notepad, Souless?"


NOTAnonymous asks, "Or the ability to 'forage 2.nut'. Because rn that's apparently not an option?"


NotRothe claims, "Ive asked and not found alot of info which is why im asking here"


Condensation claims, "You can do forage handful of dried nuts"


Kinaed states, "Okay, we're 10 minutes after the hour. I appreciate everyone who came, and I have a
pretty long list of things to go back and process."


NOTAnonymous says, "Condense-- I tend to get other items when I do that"


Kinaed pontificates, "Thank you for coming, and we look forward to meeting up next week to talk shop
about the game!"


Joel says, "A small PSA before we part. If someone is causing you to RP about them, be it via
kindness or villainy - considertaking the few minutes to write them a recommend. Even more so if as
a result you keep possibly causing a detriment to their PC, this usually means that they've done
something recommend worthy to earn such scorn! It's the easy and quick way to show your fellow
player that you appreciate the effort, and you can do recommends anonymously (and through staff
request board if you do not know who to recommend). So... Recommend a lot, and recommend whenever it
makes sense! As a bonus you will also get more recommends yourself, and earn QP for every single one
you write."

Kinaed states to Joel, "Sorry I forgot you there "


Joel exclaims, "I remembered myself!"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Joel.


NotRothe declares, "Thanks everyone, love the game! u r all amazing"


Kinaed declares, "Okay, have a great week everyone!"


NOTAnonymous states, "<3 <3 <3"


Kinaed trails off, "Transing everyone back in 3..."


Kinaed trails off, "2..."


Anonymous states, "Last"


Shamra pontificates, "Have an awesome week!"


Kinaed trails off, "1..."


Anonymous says, "Damn"

Cat has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Shamra has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
NOTAnonymous has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Boobermann has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Condensation has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Sparkles has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
preposterous has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Chipotle has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Yinadele has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Souless has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
notRothe has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Joel has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Phoenix has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]