ti-legacy.com

Kinaed states, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

PrayTheMageAway states, "Yes please"

Kinaed queries to Cat, "I can write you down now?"

Anonymous says, "Please no. I don't want to see a braveheart scene where you are braveheart"

Kinaed states to PrayTheMageAway, "Got you :)"

Kinaed wonders, "Anyone else?"

Cat states, "Yes please."

Kinaed claims to Cat, "Got you. :)"

Datnebank claims, "Me"

Kinaed nods at Datnebank.

Kinaed states, "Three down so far. :)"

Raspberries claims, "I'll throw one in"

Kinaed claims to Raspberries, "Got you."

Kinaed muses, "We have 5 registered at the moment (I got one in a tell). Anyone else? :)"

Kinaed has transferred Kuzco.  [OOC]

Temi gives a small kit of desert rations stamped with a mountain tower to Kuzco.

Kuzco claims, "Badass."

Datnebank says, "One more if no one else has it"

Kinaed wonders to Kuzco, "We were just taking calls for topics. Did you want me to put something down?"

Kuzco says, "Not this time, gracias."

Kinaed wonders to Datnebank, "Meaning you have two topics?"

Datnebank claims, "Yea"

Kinaed states to Datnebank, "Okay, we'll circle back to you at the end for your 2nd one if we have time."

Kinaed states, "Okay, let's kick off Staff Updates."

Kinaed states, "Last week, I handled a small amount of fairly serious policy stuff."

PrayTheMageAway claims, "I have 3 topics"

Kinaed says, "I haven't touched Turf Wars, but that's still on my desk. Nothing else comes to mind."

Kinaed states to PrayTheMageAway, "We only give people one each, so we can go back to you if we have time at the end, but typically we wouldn't just give you three in a row"

Kinaed has transferred Candle.  [OOC]

PrayTheMageAway states, "Understood"

Temi gives a small kit of desert rations stamped with a mountain tower to Candle.

Temi has created a small kit of desert rations stamped with a mountain tower[5].

Kinaed says to PrayTheMageAway, "I've written you down to circle back to."

PrayTheMageAway claims, "Thanks Kinaed :)"

Joel claims, "Serious policy doesn't sound fun"

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up :)"

Kinaed states to Joel, "No, it definitely isn't."

Temi states, "Okay!  I'm finally getting back into the swing of things."

Kinaed smiles.

Temi states, "In addition to recommends and requests and plots, I've also added high-quality fish, and I've opened up noble applications."

Anonymous says, "FISH. YES."

Wight states, "Yay! I'm happy to hear that temi. :)"

Kinaed smiles.

Kitty claims, "Thank you for the noble application openings."

Temi says, "I still owe a review of embellishable items, though."

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "Woohoo! fish! ... also nobles, yay..."

Condensation claims, "Oh, please.. Be cool if armour could be embellished :o"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Anonymouse wonders, "How do we apply for nobles?"

Anonymous claims, "Ew noble apps, there goes my long term ennoblement plans, but YES FISH"

Violet queries, "Is there a place where we can see an list of things that can be -used- to embellish?"

Kinaed states to Anonymouse, "Help application"

Kuzco declares, "Thank you for the fish, Temi!"

Condensation trails off, "Leather armour begs for fur embellishing..."

Kuzco says, "Fur embellishment is called BEING A MAN"

Temi says to Violet, "No, maintaining a list would be rough since they can be one-offs"

Kinaed snickers.

Anonymous states, "No but we have to have the fur on the outside of the leather"

Candle muses, "Out of curiosity, has any replacement for demon summoning been countenanced?"

Kuzco asks, "Asking for a friend?"

Temi states to Violet, "But it should be visible on an items when appraised"

Kinaed states to Candle, "Not as of yet, I should put that on my todo list."

Violet claims to Temi, "Makes sense, just figured I'd ask :)"

Kinaed has transferred Tasker.  [OOC]

Temi states, "More ideas on how to handle demon summoning would be welcome.  We don't have a good solution for it at this point"

Temi gives a small kit of desert rations stamped with a mountain tower to Tasker.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi claims, "Staff-played hasn't been functional"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi states, "There's a forum topic for people with those ideas."

Kuzco claims, "Maybe make a small post explaining the problem staff-side"

Joel states, "It was awesome when it lasted though! Props there."

PrayTheMageAway says, "Just have the demons go ballistic and attack every single time, that should take care of it"

Kuzco says, "If there isn't yet one"

Kinaed states, "Thanks  And sure, I can write a forum post about demons."

Yinadele queries, "What exactly is the issue with Demon Summoning as stands?"

Kuzco claims, "It's very staff intensive"

Candle says, "You could have the cost of different demons coded with different benefits that can be received (maybe have it post a request board note automatically for the more complex) for offering to them, and then a roll to see if things go horribly wrong."

Kinaed states, "It's staff intensive and we're not around enough to provide the necessary coverage."

Candle states, "Basically the current system but without all the nice but staff-time-consuming RP"

A male voice says, "Would a solution be to get a player to be the 'Demon Player' or something like that? Like event stuff but a much lesser scope."

Kuzco states, "Tasker ffs"

A male voice states, "WHAT"

Kinaed states, "Potentially. We could investigate that."

Kuzco states, "Show up"

Boobermann says, "Nice."

Candle smiles.

Datnebank claims, "How tf did you cloak yourself or something "

Kuzco states, "Also players puppeting demons could go south super fast =/"

A male voice states, "I am as mysterious as the winds"

Anonymous states, "That was suggested already, and there was concern that folks would use demon knowledge for crossover"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Kinaed claims, "It could."

Joel claims, "Player demon would have few issues around, well, how much the demons know and can do."

Boobermann states, "I don't think players should puppet demons."

Kinaed states, "Anyway, demons. On my list."

Kuzco nods.

Kinaed says, "Will write a forum post."

Condensation claims, "Player demons... that does not sound ideal.."

Anonymous says, "Tasker teach me your ways. i want to be a ghost in the wind"

Kuzco declaims, "(mages are player demons!)"

Kitty says, "Disembodied voice."

Kinaed wonders, "In the interests of time, let's start having a look at... Player Heartbeat  How was the game last week, folks?"

Yinadele states, "Very busy, in a good way! A lot of newbies to RP with."

Kitty had some really good scenes.

Kalana says, "Lots of effort getting ready for the market, but excited to see that"

Anonymous claims, "I spent a ridiculous amount of time alone, making medicines. This can be construed as good or bad, depending"

PrayTheMageAway says, "Particularly happy with the game at the moment"

Kinaed smiles.

Sleeper trails off, "Pretty good! In game great! ..aside from the fires that started in ooc over exp system..."

Boobermann states, "It was a little demotivating due to OOC drama."

Condensation states, "Never felt more disenchanted to RP. At least there's been the event to prepare for some."

GhostRoast exclaims, "Mmm. My RP's been good!"

Kinaed claims, "These are all very positive to hear. I'm glad of it :)"

VyStarlit is idle.

Anonymouse declaims, "Oh man, boy howdy, lemme tell ya!"

Kinaed comforts Boobermann.

Joel says, "When it wasn't riddled with some ooc nonsense it was great."

VyStarlit is no longer idle.
VyStarlit has returned from AFK.

NotNaomi says, "I stepped back a lot this week."

Kuzco says, "Ooc drama //"

Kinaed comforts Condensation.

VyStarlit claims, "It's been very welcoming. I got to get involved in a lot of things I was interested in."

Anonymous claims, "Forum drama"

Violet says, "IC lovely, OOC horridly stressful."

Anonymous states, "A lot of it"

Datnebank claims, "I got a bunch of recommends, about things that I felt insecure about, and things that I worked HARD on and that I felt went unnoticed. So rn I am just gleaming with joy."

Kinaed states, "Oh, I didn't read the forums this week."

Christoph states, "As a new player I've been having a lot of enjoyable RP."

GhostRoast claims, "Yeah, I'm on the Violet ship here."

Kinaed smiles at Christoph.

Temi states to Kinaed, "Brace yourself."

Anonymous claims, "You won't b ehappy when you do read them"

Anonymous says, "It's uh"

Joel claims to Kinaed, "Can do that instead of coffee."

Anonymous states, "It's not good"

Condensation claims, "I still don't even feel like stepping out to find folk I usually RP with, knowing I am a para-poser and am not capable of turning my writing into small three-liners to match the new 5-min stuff."

Kinaed says to Christoph, "Welcome to TI  I'm glad you've been enjoying yourself"

Anonymouse says, "Good moce, Kinaed. Don't."

Christoph declares, "To kinaed Thanks!"

Wight states, "I've been pretty out this week. While I enjoyed the RP I had, it was difficult to muster motivation to play. Not enjoying worrying about the 5 min thing."

Jennifer begins to descend.

Cat states, "Ic was great. I'm a little overwhelmed as a newbie."

Jennifer leaves down.

Anonymouse says, "Move*"

A male voice says, "HOPEFUILLY I'll be starting up part 2 of my ST event next weekend if I have the time this week to plan for it."

Kinaed comforts Cat.

Anonymous claims, "TASKER TELL ME YOUR SECRETS"

Datnebank says, "Oh yea very overwhelmed with some things here as well"

Violet declaims, "I will say... the newbies I've been RPing with, y'all are great!!"

A male voice says, "My secrets die with me"

Kuzco states, "I still count myself as a newbie"

Datnebank states, "Then perish"

Anonymous claims, "You're about as non-newbie as you can get kuzco"

Anonymouse states, "Same."

Kinaed comforts Datnebank.

Violet states, "(Including Kuzco)"

Condensation says, "Yeah. The motivation is... completely absent. With the other changes also seeming to directly hinder and ruin Merchants... bleh.."

Candle states, "I've been thinking about playing again and then I always remember the IC-fixes I get my characters into."

Anonymous questions, "What other changes?"

NotNaomi nods.

Kuzco states, "Assets"

Condensation says, "Asset changes."

Kinaed comforts Condensation.

Anonymous claims, "Oh yes that"

Anonymous claims, "Thats pretty blah."

Anonymous claims, "I'm not even a merchant and I dont like that"

Candle questions, "What happened to assets?"

Kitty questions, "I must have missed that. There were asset changes?"

Condensation states, "It's ridiculous, especially knowing what motivated the player suggesting it.."

Kuzco states, "I think the topics will be about that so we can discuss them then"

A male voice claims, "You can no longer pick up assets in Chagen, Kitty"

Anonymous says, "Assets can't be gotten in chargen anymore, only on grid, and I think there's some kind of cap on how many resources you can get"

Kinaed says to Candle, "We only allow the base asset in chargen rather than purchasing."

Kitty states, "Oh, that change. Right."

Candle muses, "Does that mean you can no longer buy assets with XP?"

Yinadele states, "I genuinely believe the shift to restrict chargen assets is a good one."

Condensation says, "Not only that, they're also capping assets behind IP."

Yinadele claims, "Ys."

Condensation claims, "As in the resources."

Kinaed states to Candle, "Yes, it's not in-game character development."

Candle says, "Interesting. "

Joel muses, "But as gentry you can buy a lot of silver in chargen still, right?"

Kinaed muses, "Capping assets behind IP?"

Sparkles is idle.

Candle claims, "I think there are arguments in favor. The distribution of silver has always been a little odd."

Sparkles is no longer idle.
Sparkles has returned from AFK.

Sleeper wonders, ""So did the exp you previously spent on assets get refunded?""

Yinadele says, "No. You do not lose them."

Yinadele states, "This is not retroactive."

Temi nods.

OneWing says, "Yeah but now it is even harder for people catch up to older player."

Kinaed says, "No one had assets removed. It's just not a chargen option anymore."

Yinadele states, "I disagree. No newbie is going to have the XP for assets."

Condensation claims, "Limiting resource claims. The whole idea of only pumping out a few resources before we gotta invest IP to order 'em."

Kuzco trails off, "Older doesn't mean richer... most of the time"

Kinaed nods at Yinadele.

Anonymous has gone AFK.

Yinadele claims, "This is actually MUCH more fair on newer players vs making alts/older player rebirths."

Candle states, "I remember before assets existed and before you could attach resources to them - and it made crafting a lot more interesting/hard."

Kinaed asks, "Okay, maybe we should go to topics since that's sort of where players are going atm?"

Violet trails off, "It does seem like there are a lot of strong opinions about the recent changes. I was wondering if a poll or two on the forums might be a good idea, to gage overall pbase sentiment? Though we can get into that when the individual topics come up..."

Temi states, "This is to adjust going forwards, slowly.  Unfortunately going back to retroactively fix is a bit non-functional too.  But we think long term is good."

Kitty says, "I have had rich characters, and I have had poor characters."

Condensation claims, "Wrong, Yin. It can still be a sacrifice they could make. More income for less RPXP in skills."

Candle says, "Especially for things like poisons."

Candle claims, "You shouldn't be able to buy Temijul."

Kuzco states, "TOPICS, GUYS"

Candle shuts up.

Kinaed states, "Okay, let's look at player topics."

Yinadele says, "No, Condensation. If you are a gentryperson or even a freeman trying to make a well rounded character on newbie XP, you will NOT do so."

Kinaed says, "I'm sure we'll resume some of these discussions  Just not all at once."

Yinadele claims, "ESPECIALLY as the POLCA system and assets is very arcane for a new player."

Wight says, "I'm with yina on this one."

Kinaed wonders to PrayTheMageAway, "You're up first  What is your highest priority topic as I have you down for more than one?"

PrayTheMageAway questions, "There has been some latency clarification discussion on the forums and a question that I dont see an answer to yet is, due to the crossover limitation between mages and order... if a player with alts (all non-mage) commits one of his PC's to join The Order... 
will all PC's have potential latency removed codedly? 
or is there a need to self report in the event of latency to get that removed by admin? 
or is there actually a potential scenario here where a latent orderite has to decide whether to drink their own koolaid?"

Yinadele says, "Latency is not affected by being in the order to my knowledge."

Kuzco nods.

Yinadele says, "Even an Ordertie can be awakened."

Kuzco nods.

Yinadele claims, "Orderite*"

Raspberries nods.

PrayTheMageAway declaims, "Yesss!!!"

Kinaed states to PrayTheMageAway, "I don't think latency is considered or affected by Orderite status at all."

Kuzco claims, "Oops."

Anonymous has returned from AFK.

Kitty states, "But, that is a way to get around the rule - no mage/order alt combos. Even if it is unintentional."

Kitty claims, "Since not everyone chooses to be latent."

Raspberries states, "If they join before being awakened, they can be magely in the order, yes. If they awaken, they or any alts can't seek however"

Datnebank says, "Woah spicy"

Candle states, "I think that latency is meant to simulate a low-probability chance of someone in the order actually becoming a mage while a priest. And that leads to interesting RP IMO"

Kinaed says, "I suppose it's a way to get around the rule, if we considered that rule a policy issue per se. I suppose if we saw a lot of that, we'd say or do something. So far, we haven't as I recall."

Anonymous claims, "New plan, get latent, infiltrate the order, destroy from within"

Datnebank says, "That would drive rp, anonymous"

Kuzco says, "Many mages in the Order have been very pious"

Temi states to Anonymous, "No, that's an old hat plan."

Joel says, "Before that mage inquisitor was so common it was a non-said joke. If done in small proportion, great."

Anonymous claims, "Hrm."

Violet claims, "We've seen that maaannnyyy times."

Kuzco nods.

Candle has played two mage GIs.

Candle claims, "It's been done."

Anonymous trails off, "Well... I never claimed to be creative"

A male voice states, "At one time I saw the Order as like, 80 percent mages. It was a bit silly. "

Kuzco claims, "Whoa"

Anonymous claims, "Lol thats so weird how do you get GI and mage"

Kinaed has played a mage GI. cough* 

Anonymous states, "I mean, wouldn't you just release mages at that point"

Condensation nods at Tasker.

Candle high-fives Kinaed. 

Joel claims, "So weird that is happened more often than straight GIs i think :P"

Sparkles says, "That's kind of unfortunate for anyone who gets randomly Awakened without their desire or permission though."

Kuzco says, "Not if you are pious"

Kinaed says, "But only one of my several GIs."

Kuzco says, "Or just don't care about other mages"

The '%' character is not usable in communication for code reasons.

Anonymous says, "But that piety would demand you burn yourself"

Kuzco claims, "Yes"

Kinaed claims, "Mage GIs are less common than straight ones, especially app ins."

Kuzco states, "Nobody's perfect mate"

GhostRoast claims, "Well, Anonymous, there's a lot of complex factors at play, there. Most characters who get to GI hopefully have SOME nuance."

Violet claims, "Nothing says you can't pyre a few other people first"

Raspberries states, "Troubs used to be 100percent, kinda comes and goes"

Yinadele claims, "It would! But maybe after you burn every other mage in Lithmore."

Kitty says, "As far as I have read, app-ins to the order aren't allowed to be latent or a mage. I think it's in 'help application'."

Anonymous says, "Lol the sheer hypothetical hypocracy of this scenario is giving me a headache. I'm done"

Kinaed has transferred Murrmurs.  [OOC]

Temi states, "Now they aren't, yep."

Temi gives a small kit of desert rations stamped with a mountain tower to Murrmurs.

GhostRoast says, "... well. yes. being alive as a Davite mage is hypocrisy."

GhostRoast claims, "Some people prefer being a hypocrite to being dead! Alas."

Kinaed states, "We don't accept applications for latents or mages to GL roles in the Order at the moment, no. A long time ago, we did (rarely, if we thought the player specifically could handle it)"

Temi claims, "Basically, it's been a bit overdone and destabilized the order, so we've added protections against it for the good of the game."

Kinaed claims, "But we just don't anymore."

Kitty states, "But most people are raised Davite, even mages. So, it's an interesting character struggle."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kuzco states, "It's not hypocrisy to be afraid of pain and suffering"

PrayTheMageAway says, "Question answered, thanks all"

GhostRoast exclaims, "Or to drag a few crabs down into the pyre bucket before you go!"

Kinaed asks, "Okay, does anyone think a change needs to be enacted here, or is this just a 'is this true and meant to be?' kind of question?"

Kitty states, "They also could simply think that they're getting the 'bad ones' out of the way, and saving them. And sweep theirs under the rug. They're not 'bad'. There are many ways to approach it."

Kinaed smiles at PrayTheMageAway.

Violet says, "Makes sense to me."

Kuzco says, "Ki"

Kuzco states, "Kin"

Raspberries says, "All good"

Yinadele says, "Think this is a question."

Yinadele claims, "All good."

Wight claims, "All good for me"

Datnebank claims, "Am good :)"

Joel says, "I like some paranoia and not 100 guarantee to not be mages."

Kinaed asks of Cat, "You're up next. Please introduce us to your topic? :)"

Kuzco says, "I think the consensus in the forums was that latent helpfile needed clarification"

PrayTheMageAway claims, "I am not asking for a change, just was looking for what the ooc limmitations were on latents, which you gave"

Cat claims, "Okay. So. I wanted to talk about the 5 Minute posting rule / RPXP Change. I feel like it puts a lot of pressure on me. I have dyslexia and english is not my native tongue, so i gotta google how to spell words and stuff like that, all the time. The 5 Minutes are like a video game death timer in my head and it just makes me really jittery. My responses become clipped and short sometimes, because of that. I wanted to ask about peoples experiences here."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "If you haven't already, can you typo with what stuff needs to be added there? Would be appreciated."

Raspberries states, "My topic ties into this a little."

OneWing states, "I also faced a player that refused to roleplay with me because I tried to put a lot of thought into my emotes due to the situation. "

PrayTheMageAway claims, "I love raspberries"

Anonymous says, "If you're asking for experiences, I've not had any problems with it personally since I tend to emote very quickly, and do kind of a medium length. But I know a lot of folks have problems with it."

Kinaed states, "We felt as staff that if we set it at 5 minutes and tested it, then needed to extend it, we'd be better than if we set it at 10 minutes, then needed to adjust to 5. Right now, 5 minutes is the standard we use for arrests."

Anonymouse muses, "Does the five minute timer include thoughts?"

Joel says, "As fella dyslexic, english as 3rd language the only advice I can give is... practice, and lots of it."

NotNaomi wonders, "I second that, the five minute per pose rule is awful. Perhaps it can be imposed on rooms with more than 3 people in them or something, instead?"

Raspberries winks at PrayTheMageAway.

Condensation says, "Preach it. I find it not only puts pressure on anyone who isn't a fast writer or is troubled to write rapid, it also kills the entire idea of writing fleshed-out sentences which.. can easily take two + mins to properly read over and consider their response to."

Sleeper says OOCly, "Too MUCH! TOO FAST!""

Candle states, "Having just read the forum post, I think the problem for me is that the XP rule won't change the old behavior of players like me who have hundreds of thousands of RPXP, but it will hurt the mid-tier players."

Yinadele claims, "I feel like the five minute timer of negative reinforcements is more of a morale issue than a mechanical issue. I feel like it was... Very impolitely worded to slower players."

Kinaed claims, "However, the change currently isn't in game as far as I understand it, so we'll let you know when it is and we begin data collection."

Yinadele states, "I like Naomi's suggestion."

Wight claims, "I really really don't like it. While I have... less issue with it in larger rooms. It is extremely stresful and unpleasant to worry about it in a small two or three person scene"

Joel states, "In 3 people room that already gives you 10 minutes per emote though... Assuming you start writing yours as first one is posted."

Yinadele says, "I would really prefer it be settable on public areas, than private areas."

Wight wonders, "If you are going to do this Kin can I request some sort of toggle ala turns?"

Kuzco has lost link.
Kuzco has reconnected.

Kuzco states, "Limited to public RP would be good"

Boobermann states, "Could tie it to the private room flag, maybe"

Yinadele states, "Either a toggle or a public area application would be nice."

Kuzco nods.

Sparkles states, "Actually, arrest code currently says 10 minutes. So if it isn't really ten minutes, that text prompt should be updated."

A male voice claims, "It's 5 minutes for arrests for people stalling for time and dragging out the scene for as long as possible, with normal scenes 5 minutes is way too small of a timer. Though, I don't really see it affecting me. I pose slowly sometimes when I want to be really detailed, or quickly if I need to get something done. A timer isn't going to effect what I do, even if I need the rpxp. I think a good- Yeah, Wight. I think a good idea would be maybe it being a toggle in a scene, rather than just a blanket this is how it is."

Condensation says, "Imagine if you're already ignoring the entire 'well we can't hit the 5 min mark', with a friend, and you're suddenly walked in on by another player. Suddenly, the two of you are pressured to stop being long in your emotes or you're not only killing the new PCs chance to earn XP in the room, but then also run the risk the player walking-in will avoid you because it seems like you're both slow folk."

Wight states, "There are a lot of scenes where this timer is/would be (whichever) would be really disruptive. A lot of my most pleasant TI scenes have been extremely high effort, reasonably long 10~ minute between pose scenes"

Yinadele states, "@male-voice, This is about RPXP gain getting downticked from the emote if you go for 5 minutes without an emote."

PrayTheMageAway asks, "This seems to vary greatly based on player preference too, maybe individual players could opt into one of two options??? just an idea and maybe a terrible one"

Kinaed says, "I think this is the kind of change that a set of people will react poorly to, and it cannot be avoided. It is one where we will need to have it in play, do data collection, and see what adjustments need to happen. It is not one that I want to problem solve before it's even entered game."

Yinadele states, "It sounds sad for long, paragraphy purpose pose private scenes."

Datnebank queries, "Its not in game yet? "

Christoph says, "This does concern me as a new player since I do have a disability that makes me slower than usual and I like to write medium to paragraphs."

Temi states, "We would appreciate if people are willing to give it a fair chance.  We don't want people to stress out about it, but we do recognize there will be some adaptations, and we hope people will be understanding of that.  But, I do think we'll be keeping a close eye on it, and listening for suggestions that other people think will actually help for keeping things going."

Sparkles claims, "I feel like the data collection would be easier if the code was fixed that showed why people's RPXP ticker was what it was."

Kinaed says to Datnebank, "Not yet, no."

Yinadele states, "Like interrogations/reviews, uwu romance RP, long political planning, etc. But, those should be happening in private areas, and I see the point in public areas."

Violet claims, "Agree with Sparkles"

Kuzco nods.

PrayTheMageAway says, "Ok so if we dont like it, keep talking about it, and know that staff are paying attention to the change but its still too new to flush just yet"

Anonymouse wonders, "Is doing a think enough to buy you another five minutes?"
Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "True, but Az's time is definitely at a premium for the moment."

Wight states, "Sparkles as a good point."

Joel says to Kinaed, "Just one caveat, don't have it playin in !RP rooms when its implemented? It's a small segment and lets people rp at home like people wish."

VyStarlit states, "As a newbie, I've been reading the forum about that. I understand both sides. So I tried timing how longit took me to post. At least half the time it took me 5-6 minutes and that was me trying. So I think the time should be extended at least to maybe 10 minutes. And no time limit for people who don't mind waiting or are in a private scene. "

Yinadele wiggles brows.

Condensation states, "I don't short-pose ever, even in pblic. I seriously can't and won't do that, so yeah.. this entire change seems like a direct hindrance to everything I find comfortable and enjoyable about roleplaying in a MUD like this."

Raspberries asks, "Can I bring up my topic/suggestion, building off of this?"

GhostRoast claims, "I will conservatively say that I'm unhappy about it more as a matter of principle than as a matter of caring about the number going up. The way it was worded, and the way things were communicated, came across as a blindsiding exclusion of a significant amount of the playerbase as 'what TIL is supposed to be.'"

Kinaed states, "Okay, so the speed at which people commented when this topic was raised was so fast that a good portion of it went past my screen before I could absorb much."

Kinaed says, "What I'll do is wait for another two minutes - please post whatever people want to say about it. When the two minutes is up, I commit to reading the log of this on the forums and putting something together."

PrayTheMageAway eats her OOC desert candybar

Datnebank says, "Just wanna point out im very glad at how respectful people are about a very controversial topic"

Temi states, "I will note, as I did in the forum topic, that this is less about how long it takes you to post, and more about how long other people have to wait in the room with nothing happening."

Raspberries nods at Temi.

Kitty states, "Though, just like anyone else, they could be doing hemotes or thinks, too. And, that will raise their RP."

Condensation states, "I've hardly ever seen that be an issue. Ever. When public scenes grow, folk start posting faster, yet that's never stopped folk from jemoting over emoting with the rest of the room.. which I feel should be penalized more than -any- emoting."

Kitty states, "RPXP, rather"

Christoph queries, "Why not just use 3PR?"

Kinaed asks of Christoph, "I don't know what 3PR is?"

Kitty claims, "Jmoting is designed to reduce room spam. That's the whole point, especially in a very busy scene."

Datnebank begins to move south.

GhostRoast states, "I just feel bad about it. That's what I have the energy to comment on it."

Datnebank crosses the center of the room.

Datnebank slows to a halt.

Kitty says, "So, no. I don't agree that jmoting should be penalized. It's, literally, being used for what it's for."

Christoph says, "If there's 4 or more people in a room, there's no formal pose order. Just don't pose until 3 others have before you."

Datnebank states, "So hm, I feel this disadvantages people that are already at disadvantage - people whose native language isnt english and who are prolly stuck in time zones with the same 10 chars over and over again. new players who need to read help files. and players with dyslexia or other issues that just make em slow."

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "I agree... you dont want everyone spamming eachother making the room impossible to read"

Wight says, "I'll also agree. This came out of left field for me. The forum consensus seemed to be 'different people have their own preferences,' and i've never felt that speed is an issue in public rooms. While occasionally you do run into the occasional 'scenery characters' who are not emoting in a scene, the vast majority of poses in those scenes come in under 5 minutes. There is very little dead time 99 times out of 100."

Condensation claims, "Four folk doesn't constitute a busy room, nor does three or five. Plenty of my scenes in the Queen's have been that, three folk jemoting and me + 1 feeling left out and ignored as we try and mingle."

Raspberries queries to Kinaed, "Should I bring my topic up now since it's related, or wait?"

Datnebank states, "Also in my experience the idling out players have never minded it when we skipped their turns. its what made it bearable."

Anonymouse trails off, "Jmotes are usually private conversations. You could always eavesdrop..."

Condensation claims, "Yes. What Wight said. I have never seen slowness happen to a point we are frozen in a scene for five minutes. The only times that happens is when something needs to be explained or folk are busy tooling, but we seem to know whne that's the case... seeing we have very specific crafting rooms.."

Joel claims, "I sadly have ran into scenes where I oocly sked to hurry it up, just to be completely ignored."

Wight says, "This feels like it does not attack the real problems that I think you are trying to get at. There is generally plenty of stuff going on in scenes. And in larger public scenes people can and do often get skipped."

Violet says, "I admit, I also felt very uncomfortable with the change. We've always been an OOCly inclusive game, and the 5 minute limit feels like it's shaming: 

- Slow typers (often due to disabilities/real life limitations)
- Individuals who are still learning the game/need to look up helpfiles for theme
- Individuals RPing challenging IC roles that require more forthought in emote(bards doing performances, priests/inquisitors lecturing)

On the other hand, respect staff and understand where they're coming from with this... it just... felt personal, I think, to a good portion of the game. The forum consensus seemed to be, as Wight said, "there's a lot of variety, but let's work on being more respectful to time-constraints in public and working to support one another"-- then the change, game-wide. It seemed like a disconnect."

Kinaed asks, "Does anyone else's registered topic relate to this?"

Condensation states, "Preach it. Couldn't say it better."

Murrmurs states, "I have spent a while sitting on my hands over this shift. The massive TL;DR of my thoughs on the matter sum into --- I do not understand how it works to improve the quality of play or writing that occurs. Folks stuck waiting is a particular problem -- but is one that reads as an intentional attempt to change culture, rather than some clunked on code change."

Raspberries states, "I do."

Yinadele claims, "I agree with Violet's commentary more than anything."

Kinaed claims to Raspberries, "Got you."

Wight states, "+1 to violet. Thank you for summarizing that so well."

Murrmurs says, "As needing an intentional attempt*, rather."

Sleeper trails off, "What violet says holds true..."

GhostRoast claims, "The Violet ship sails."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, if no one else's topic does - Raspberries, please raise your topic."

Kinaed claims, "Sorry about the turn order skipping, but I think it's good to keep things together."

Raspberries claims, "Regarding carrot vs stick on shorter emotes, though it doesn't affect me much as I'm typically a quick emoter who likes more interactivity, I just wanted to see if there couldn't first be a return of the autowarn messages to see if it helps the issue before rpxp is taken away completely for longer emotes. The autowarn messages stopped working over a year ago IIRC, and after they were gone I personally stopped thinking to do many things that they had encouraged like hemotes and thinks, and I think average emote time may have slowed since its removal for others as well."

Kitty states, "+1"

Kinaed states, "I'll ask Az to prioritize Autowarn fixes as the next item he looks at after this."

PrayTheMageAway questions, "Can autowarn be disabled by player preference?"

Murrmurs states, "Yes."

PrayTheMageAway claims, "Thats an awesome feature then"

Temi claims, "Autowarn was always a player setting to have on or off"

Kitty states, "It was active when I was a newb, and since it has stopped, I have been worse about hemoting, thinking, all of that. And yes, autowarn can be disabled. I liked those messages, though."

Temi says, "But apparently it hasn't been going off correctly."

Kinaed states to Cat, "Okay, I think it's your turn  Please introduce us to your topic."

Kitty states, "It hasn't been firing at all. For a very, very long time."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Violet claims, "Ooh, I agree. Autowarn used to help a ton, and maybe just the reminder from this increased discussion surrounding the issue paired with the repair of that feature would be enough to enact the sort of change staff is hoping to see"

Datnebank asks, "Cat? she brought hers up already"

GhostRoast says, "I think the only one which works is 'action.'"

Condensation muses, "Cat had a second turn. I think we've gone full circle?"

Kinaed muses to Cat, "Are you present and have you pre-written your topic? :)"

Temi claims, "Probably just the place on the list got confused"

Temi says to Kinaed, "I think that was Cat's"

Kitty states, "No, it was a system that, about every 30 minutes, it told you how many times you'd emoted, how many times you put out a think, how many times you hemoted, etc. And gave you hints as to how to improve your RPXP gain."

PrayTheMageAway says, "If not mines ready"

Kinaed declaims, "Oops, sorry!"

Kinaed says to Datnebank, "That means it's your turn :)"

Condensation says, "That sounds like an awesome feature."

Violet states, "It was great"

GhostRoast claims, "I see, I see. Okay. Yeah, that sounds wonderful."

Kitty states, "I really liked it."

Datnebank says, "It bothers me that you can't write in a journal while learning; it threw me out of my immersion. I'm playing someone who has adhd and thus noting things down is really important to my character concept."

Kinaed states to Datnebank, "That's probably a code limitation that would be difficult for us to fix."

Kuzco claims, "Pre-type it in notepad"

Joel queries, "Write them oocly, rp writing and then write into journal in one go?"

Kitty claims, "There are a lot of things blocked in learning, even eating and drinking."

Wimpled is idle.

Kinaed nods at Joel.

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Condensation claims, "There's so many things you can't do while learning. I think it's to stop folk from disrupting actual teaching lessons by doing other things."

Wimpled is no longer idle.

Wimpled has returned from AFK.

Sparkles states, "You can't do a lot of things within the learn code. You can RP writing it and write it later."

Joel states, "Yea, learning blocks almosst everything"

Anonymouse muses, "Emote doing so, fill it in after?"

Temi nods.

OneWing claims, "While teaching you can take items out of container but not into."

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "Thats what I do, i rp writing in my ournal then add it to the journal later... i dont see this as really rp limiting at all"

Datnebank claims, "Yea but it doesnt make sense ic :( "

Joel claims, "Icly you are still writing now"

Datnebank says, "Like taking notes as part of learning makes a lot of sense ic"

Kinaed says to Condensation, "I think it's because it's a threaded handshake system, actually. Certain things break threads, particularly things with the editor or have other threads involved. I could be wrong though."

Kitty states, "It isn't IC. IC, you are writing when you emote it. OOC, you are filling in the pages later."

Violet claims, "You also can't 'craft show <recipe>', which can be a challenge if teaching a crafting skill"

Joel claims, "Just that the separate mechanical action is belated."

Sparkles says, "Also ... constantly writing things in the middle of the scene will spam the other people you are doing so."

Datnebank says, "Ah so its a code thing hm. okay. oh well :( "

Raspberries nods at Kinaed.

Condensation states, "Ah. That makes sense, Kin."

Anonymous claims, "Fun fact, CONCOCT is the only crafting skill that you can review the recipe list via SHOW and -SEARCH while sleeping."

Temi finishes abruptly, "Or if you want to RP both - IC 'take quick notes' and then later 'organize your notes'"

OneWing states, "Dropping an items cancel crafts."

Condensation says, "I like it, either way. prevents people from shifting out of tutored lessons doing anything else."

Joel claims, "Golden rule is that while threading, emote only. Anything else is danger zone."

Yinadele states, "I think there are surely ways to adjust and review the loop proc."

PrayTheMageAway queries, "What is while threading? explain???"

Joel says, "Threated commands, like learn, crafting etc."

Condensation states, "Threading. Threaded commands. Like crafting taking several steps."

Anonymous states, "Threading are actions that take a few moments to take place"

PrayTheMageAway muses, "Is that a tailoring reference?"

Murrmurs says, "Threaded commands are ones that occur over ticks in game."

Anonymous says, "Like crafting or mounting a horse"

Yinadele claims, "Loops/tick based actions."

Raspberries scans the area, examining the ground.

Condensation states, "Washing, crafting, etc."

Kitty states, "Hiding, mounting, crafting, etc."

Temi says, "I'm sure it -could- be fixed, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort given limited programming time."

Joel says, "It's ive-been-playing-muds-too-long reference"

Anonymous stands up.

Anonymous scans the area, looking for somewhere to hide.

Raspberries quarters the area.

Violet states, "Searching, foraging, etc etc."

Murrmurs says OOCly, "Help clrcmd for when you want to stop those things quickly, too!"

Anonymous edges towards his chosen hiding spot.

Kinaed states to Datnebank, "Anyway, I am sorry that this ruined your immersion, but there are work arounds, like taking notes OOCly, and then later putting them into your book that are of higher value than our changing the system with the limited code time we have available."

Condensation scans the area, examining the ground.

Kuzco says OOCly, "Clr too"

Anonymous reaches his position.

Condensation stops searching the area.

Raspberries takes a closer look at the ground.

Anonymous conceals himself as best as possible.

Temi claims, "A thread is something that occurs over multiple steps.  Ie if one command puts out multiple messages"

Anonymous moves suddenly, breaking from his hiding spot.

Anonymous says, "I am hidden"

Raspberries gives the area a final look-over.

PrayTheMageAway claims, "Ok, strings of chained commands can get messed with if doing other than emote"

Kinaed states, "So this is one we're unlikely to fix."

Anonymous claims, "Oh not anymore"

Kinaed says, "At least, in the short term."

Search complete.  Nothing found.

Kitty remembers a time when she typed 'wash' in the wrong window, and her character started washing in the Church Square fountain... clrcmds is great.

Datnebank finishes abruptly, "Alright - was hoping there was a small fix"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Datnebank.

Kinaed says to Datnebank, "Fair enough  Thank you for raising it to us"

Datnebank claims, "I actually had a third topic, if we have the time for it, at the very end or so."

They aren't here.

Datnebank claims, "I doubt that tho"

Raspberries states, "Could've been worse, Kitty"

Kinaed questions to Wight, "You're up next. I think your topic was contingent on no one else raising the 5 minute RPxp rule. Did you still want to go?"

Condensation has lost link.
Condensation has reconnected.

Kitty states, "I had to write the Reeves and go, "I DIDN'T DO IT! SHE WOULDN'T DO THAT. WRONG WINDOW." Everyone laughed at me."

Wight states, "Nah i'm good! Thank you though."

Kinaed nods at Wight.

Kinaed smiles.

Anonymous states, "I expect to come across Torin one day, happily having a bubble bath in a public fountain."

Kinaed says, "Okay, so we can now circle back to people's 2nd topics."

Joel trails off, "Everyone takes a bath in city fountain eventually..."

Kinaed says to Datnebank, "You had a 2nd topic? Please introduce us to it."

Datnebank claims, "Second topic: I know there's a bunch of people who want to socialize as players while in a scene. I also understand that there are players that really dont like that cause of immersion break. I am for a return of the guild channel, because as it is, the socialising players go to channels they shouldn't be in - we talked about osay banter, and prison chat banter, and so on. I see this as players having a need that is unfulfilled and as long as its unfulfilled these conflicts will come up over and over again. I heard the guild channels were pretty good for that and they were toggeable so id like for them to come back. however, they shouldnt have any info that places you at a disadvantage if you dont use the chat - so no organizing via guild chat."

Condensation claims, "I prefer the troughs. Nice and compact."

Anonymouse says, "Torin's done that already. Got yelled at by four different people at once."

Boobermann claims, "I disagree."

Kitty states, "I also disagree."

Joel states, "I hated ooc guidl channels."

Sparkles says, "We have places to fulfill those needs. An OOC channel and a Discord."

Boobermann says, "We have a general OOC channel. We do not need specific, closed off guild channels"

Joel states, "You either partake or you are sidelined."

Anonymous claims, "Torin drank from a fountain, not bathed in it. Unless I missed that scene"

Raspberries states, "Yeah, should just be using the OOC channel"

Kitty claims, "Osay is not intended to be used for chatting, it's in the specific helpfile."

Kitty says, "The OOC channel is meant for OOC chatting. Or, there is Discord. Guild channels were removed when tells were removed."

OneWing states, "It would be another channel I would turn off and I would turn off osay if I could."

Joel states, "What's wrong with just using the general ooc channel? And if you just want a small ooc group, you are not forbidden from making a discord group etc."

Murrmurs claims, "Datnebank's topic reads to me as 'yeah those exist, they aren't able successfully fulfill that need', regardless of rule or opinion."

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "Osay already penalizes you for using it so thats not really a problem..."

Joel states, "5xp is... really not a penalty."

Cat is idle.

Joel states, "After few characters"

PrayTheMageAway says, "Haha true"

Violet exclaims, "It is for new players!"

A male voice claims, "Guild channels just became impossible for staff to manage, and they were not being used for their intended purpose. I was heavily against the change when it was first implemented, but I rapidly saw the benefits. Stuff got organised IC'ly a lot more... which, this game is all about. So I think it was a net positive. Socialising can be done in the global OOC chat or the discord."

Kinaed claims, "We removed guild channels because they were consistently being used in one of two ways (and I mean very consistently): 1) avoiding actually ICly getting together to plan OOC, and 2) to socialize in a way that often picked on one person or excluded them. "

Sleeper trails off, ""Cyans don't pay though...""

Datnebank says, "Like im in a guild where, cough, osay is used heavily as a banter place. so I see this need, and i see it not being fulfilled by ooc, because... well. "

Kinaed says, "Staff got pretty tired of policing the guild channels as well."

Raspberries trails off, "I can afford... roughly 300k osays"

Condensation claims, "Yeah. Seems like it easily ends up being used for things that can easily be handled ICly"

Joel states, "I can pay for osays in qp ;p"

Cat is no longer idle.

Cat states, "I've seen people discuss things osay and in a big scene it just kills my imersion. It's not like i can turn osay off."

Kuzco claims, "Guild channels and gnotes were too much of a crutch, yeah"

Joel claims, "BUt i don't get why would you use osay instead of ooc channel for banter."

Kinaed asks, "Would people like to be able to turn osay off?"

Joel states, "Oh gnotes, damn."

PrayTheMageAway claims, "Because its local"

Datnebank states, "You cant bather about in scene stuff in ooc "

Sparkles states, "Yes."

Joel states, "Noo, i need osay for clarification."

Kitty says, "No one can turn osay off, and no one should be required to participate or watch an OOC discussion when they dont want to."

Kinaed questions, "If we did, is there anything we'd need to show to people so they know someone's osay is off?"

Joel states, "I'd rather have people not abuse it."

Kuzco claims, "Kin means as a personal choice"

Murrmurs states, "Osays are critical for clarification at points."

GhostRoast says, "You might not want to air your banter to the whole server, where your RP partner might not even be."

Violet states, "I think osays are sometimes necessary. Turning it off limits the help cyans can receive."

Raspberries states, "I think turning osay off would be an issue for actual correction stuff"

Sparkles claims, "People IMHO ask to 'clarify' things in osay too much."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kuzco states, "Like"

A male voice says OOCly, "I think being able to turn osay off would be welcome, but there would need to be some sort of... flag? I don't know, I see someone trying to osay some clarification at me and I just not see it and they think I'm ignoring them."

PrayTheMageAway says, "Sparkles thats what its for"

A male voice states, "Woops"

Kuzco has disabled OSAY.

Kinaed nods.

Joel says, "Especially playing some guilds you NEED osay to communicate with prospecting members"

Kitty states, "I do not think turning osay off is the solution. They need to be used as they are intended. If someone has a question, they can't ask it if the other person has osay off."

Datnebank says OOCly, "Yea id rather not disable osay."

Kinaed states, "Okay, so the purpose of osay is NOT banter."

Raspberries nods.

Anonymouse states, "I'm one of those osay criminals - Usually it's for context-specific comedy, or sensitive IC stuff not suitable for OOC. That's why I spend 5xp trying to make someone laugh"

Sparkles says, "There's a difference between OOC clarification and IC clarification."

Condensation has disabled Kuzco.

Boobermann claims, "I think this just comes back to the topic we've had for the past 4 meetings. Don't use osay for banter or arguments."

Kitty says, "Using osay to to help new players in a guild is one thing. Using it to have a conversation about your dinner or your cat, or how funny that pose was... is completely different."

Self has reenabled OSAY. [PrayTheMageAway]

Candle claims, "There are enough bugs or weird OOC moments that I think osay is necessary."

Violet says, "But... not everyone WANTS context-specific comedy"

Joel doesn't

Kinaed states, "When people do this, they are breaking the rules and making it so that staff don't want to include it. But, I kept osay because the last time TI had no tells in 2003, it was painful to be unable to clarify small, legitimate things."

Kinaed nods at Violet.

Anonymouse states, "Yes, correct, which is why I stop when asked"

Anonymouse states, "I'm not a dick or nothin"

Kuzco claims, "Allegedly"

Kinaed states, "I think you shouldn't be doing it at all. Because it muddies the reason staff even left osay available to people, and it's clearly disturbing some people."

Joel trails off, "I mean... It feels shitty to be "player police" for stuff like that"

Joel claims, "Even if it annoys you"

Condensation says, "I like being able to voice a bit of banter. Reminds you you're playing with folk who enjoy the game, over a cold mechanical machine producing text for me or smth."

Kitty states, "The thing is, no one should HAVE to be asked. The osay channel has a specific purpose, and using it another way is not following policy. So, when people have to ask you to stop misusing it, it's a problem."

No help on that word.  Request logged to staff for possible addition.

PrayTheMageAway asks, "This sounds like its been decided, can we move on?"

Kinaed says, "On a weekly basis for the last three or so weeks, we've had people frequently reminding other people in OOC Chat to keep other people's humor, jibs, and anything not RP clarification off the osay channel."

VyStarlit is idle.

GhostRoast claims, "I think osay serves a necessary purpose and disabling it isn't the solution, yeah. I also think that the move to Discord inherently promotes cliques in a way that is completely invisible and near-impossible to monitor. That said... The social nature of this game is very important for some folks. Having a convenient way to communicate on an OOC level is just... nice."

Kitty claims, "And yes, it makes people feel bad to have to ask people to follow policy. And, it's been happening a LOT."

Kinaed states, "Well, I don't think it's resolved Pray. This is week 4 or so."

Cannot use stacked commands with quotes.

Cannot use stacked commands with quotes.

Datnebank claims, "Like, this is what i mean - theres a split between people who want a place to banter about the scene, and people who want none of that. so like, i want to find a solution that makes everyone happy"

Kinaed claims, "So I question if staff need to do more than politely remind people that's not what the channel is for."

Raspberries says, "If you're having an issue with someone using osays inappropriately, you can do 'help osay || assist (player)' to anonymously give them the hint"

OneWing says, "Maybe I will just start cnoting all the banter and start reporting it consistently."

Murrmurs says, "I know this is an entirely dead horse... But opt-in tells can fill that niche for folks wanting in game banter without spamming rooms or the full game."

Murrmurs claims, "...Understanding that tells are a whole load of work for you staffers. <3"

PrayTheMageAway states, "Ok, dont mind me im just being impatient"

Kinaed states, "I'm thinking of putting an RPxp penalty, stay 5k, into that help file, and logging help file assists."

Sleeper has lost link.

Kinaed claims, "And if I see anyone consistently being asked, potentially docking rpxp"

Condensation says, "Or make the osay disable a thing that reenables after you leavr the room."

VyStarlit is no longer idle.
VyStarlit has returned from AFK.

Condensation says, "That way, you can toggle it off when it annoys yiu"

Kinaed nods at Condensation.

Joel says, "5k or percentage. For many players 5k is really nothing."

Christoph queries, "Could you just remove it from people who abuse it?"

Condensation says, "And you'll be accessible for it when it's perhaps needed."

GhostRoast says, "And for many players, 5k is everything."

Kitty says, "It would get to be a lot if it happens over and over."

Joel claims, "Hence why Or, so it punishes new and old players equally."

PrayTheMageAway states, "If i lost 5k i would be devastated"

Violet says, "Yah... I do think everyone slips up every once in a while, but I like the idea of disabling osays for repeat offenders."

Joel says, "So it actually hurts."

Anonymous claims, "Even if it happens a lot, 5k versus 1.5 MILLION rpxp is a drop in the bucket lol"

Kinaed wonders to Condensation, "I like that. Just something like 'A player has disabled osays in the room.' and leave it at that?"

Condensation says, "Yes."

Kinaed states, "I can also create a no-osay flag and if anyone is identified to staff, make it so that a player loses the privilege."

Kitty states, "The people with 1.5 million RPXP probably aren't the ones abusing it. They are the ones getting annoyed by it."

Joel states, "I feel that this will ostracise the player though, just like asking people to cut it out."

GhostRoast questions, "Maybe a separate verb could alert people who have disabled osays that there is a clarification needed, when it is?"

Kitty states, "Because this is a recent problem."

OneWing states, "It is a recent one, yeah. Might disappear with time again, though."

Datnebank states, "So im considering making a discord chat for banter for that one guild that banters a lot. but that would be guild chat even worse, no"

Christoph says, "I prefer the latter as a new player - I want to be able to get help or clarification if necessary. If you can yank away the ability from a repeat offender, that seems preferable."

Kinaed states, "Okay, so far I've written in my notes - osay disable command to shut down osays in a room anonymously untilt he scene is done, and a noosay flag for repeat offenders."

Condensation asks, "Maybe give it a counter? Yiu regain osay counters over emoting at others..? To prevent spam"

Joel states, "Datnebank very much so... even more of inner circle."

Boobermann states, "You really should not make private discord servers for guilds."

Kinaed says, "That seems like it will probably be effective."

Datnebank claims, "Then basically its like youre not allowed to have scene banter at all"

GhostRoast states, "Private Discord servers for IC organizations is a really rough sell."

Kuzco states, "It's a terrible idea"

Datnebank says, "And saying, hey, go to discord if you want it, is nonsense"

Kitty says, "I really don't want the toggle off. People abusing it should stop, not people who aren't turn it off."

Violet trails off, "Tbh... what about guild-focused channels on the TI discord? Accessible to everyone, strictly OOC... Idk if that'd be too much work, but *shrugs*"

Anonymous states, "Discord kills game communities"

Kuzco says, "And it always goes south"

Raspberries doesn't even like using the official discord.

Anonymouse claims, "Correct, no scene banter is policy."

Joel claims, "There already is OOC channel, for all this banter"

Kinaed states, "I don't want to find out guilds have private discord servers. To me, that's like OOC cronism and is seriously problematic"

Joel muses, "Why do you need it with limited audience?"

Kitty says, "The ability to toggle it off would mean taht the people doing it could tell the one stopping, "Just turn it off." Which is not appropriate."

Kinaed nods at Joel.

GhostRoast states, "Yeah, flashback to our favorite recent example of that."

Kitty says, "Or, the person asking them to stop, rather."

GhostRoast claims, "... re: guilds and servers."

Condensation says, "Yeah.. Plus who knows the Guild isnt excluding a few from the discord group.. That can surely feel harsh to the ones excluded."

Sparkles states, "I feel like it's a drive to have TI serve all of someone's social needs."

Kitty says, "Not only that, not all people reveal their alts."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Condensation says, "Mmhm."

GhostRoast states, "Even then, Condensation, you can just... NOT WANT to join."

Raspberries says, "Oh"

Datnebank says, "I agree, but. ah. again. i see banter, and ive been asking people if theyre fine with it, and i can name like 8 people that i know partake and are fine with it. so like. its a need that is there."

Joel states, "They may not want a confrontation Datnebank"

Joel claims, "So they just yesman for now."

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "Exactly. This is a game and intended to be played as a game in its designed ecosystem. We simply cannot fulfill all social needs."

Kitty claims, "They may just not want to say anything against it, because they don't want to be labeled as 'that person who is a killjoy'."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Raspberries says, "One other thing is you can ignore someone who's using osay too much. You'll still see their emotes, but not any OOC commuication from them"

Kuzco is a killjoy.

Kitty states, "I, personally, don't mind being a killjoy. People need to follow the rules."

Kinaed claims, "Or if they don't join the server, being treated OOCly as a traitor or something."

Boobermann claims, "The MUD itself isn't a specific chatroom, can use the Discord and OOC channel for that if you want."

Datnebank states, "Im talking about people that actively participate"

Kinaed claims, "No, it's definitely not okay."

Boobermann claims, "Or even the forums."

Joel shivers at reminder of gchats

Datnebank claims, "So not being a killjoy is, i dont think thats the issue"

OneWing claims, "Ignore does not block off osay."

Raspberries queries, "It doesn't?"

Boobermann states, "You can use the Discord for your banter because it is moderated, does not disturb other players and doesn't turn the game into a social OOC chatroom thing."

Raspberries claims, "Help ignore says it does."

Kitty states, "And you're being told that it's against policy. So, that means all of those people who are participating, are also breaking policy."

Wight says, "I really wouldn't mind more specific guild channels for the discord though generally speaking."

Kuzco muses, "I... don't hate it?"

Boobermann says, "I think that'll just devolve into guild channels v2."

Kinaed states to Raspberries, "It's supposed to leave soemthing like 'Kinaed Osays," IGNORED"" so you know someone said something, but not what. Please bug it if that doesn't work"

Sparkles says, "That's a lot to be asking the Discord mods to overlook."

OneWing states, "And as others here have noted. You can use OOC for banter. I don't understand why anyone would persist on osay being used for it."

Sparkles questions, "What 10 different channels?"

Kuzco claims, "Ah true"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Joel muses, "Why? I don't want to be on discord. Am I now missing on my guild there?"

Kuzco claims, "I don't wanna have to read all those channels"

Murrmurs claims, "There are moderation tools that aid in that Sparkles."

Datnebank claims, "Yea it just strikes me as weird when theres a lot of people that would enjoy a place for it and its just shut down"

Anonymouse declares, "Second osay channel! <bants Leather? I hardly knew her!>"

Kuzco says, "And yeah many players don't have or want Discord"

Datnebank states, "But like"

Datnebank states, "I guess"

Joel claims, "And now there id discord and non-discord part of every group. Awful."

Kitty says, "It doesn't matter if they agree or not. It's the rules. Getting into a habit of breaking the rule doesn't mean that rule will necessarily change."

Kinaed states to Datnebank, "So, TI is a game that is intended to be a game that's as fair as possible. It is not a thing that is designed to do everything and be everything that any one individual wants it to be. "

Boobermann trails off, "It's not an issue with Discord moderation, I just don't think specific guild channels are a good idea in general. People might want to avoid the OOC collusion, might not want to avoid their player accounts..."

Yinadele says, "I think 2 different Osays might be nice, one of which can be muted, would solve the issue."

Boobermann claims, "People shouldn't be forced to just make two seperate Discord accounts, for example, to hide their alts."

Yinadele claims, "Imho every OOC channel should log."

Joel says, "Pretty sure they do log."

VyStarlit has lost link.

Sparkles says, "It feels like this is coming from things folks had available on other games where they are used to more blending their IC/OOC."

Violet claims, "Maybe a couple OOC 'rooms' or channels that are accessible to everyone? Let's folks have their chatter, everyone is welcome, but... cuts down on the spam? I admit, I've been frustrated in the past when 3 convos are going on at once in OOC. I don't want to turn it off because I'm interested in engaging one of them, but I'm drowing in the others."

Kitty claims, "And yes, Discord guild channels would end up with the same problems the IG guild channels did. People who didn't participate were considered anti-social or rude, and people who did discussed things that should have been happening ICly, not in OOC discussions."

VyStarlit has reconnected.

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "I have a topic that sorta ties in with the OOC IC topic... sorta"

Candle says, "I mean - I think that tells were the solution to the Discord cliques, but that's just me. It meant that people could engage as much or as little as they wanted OOC while not having to do some sort of off-platform thing. "

Kinaed claims, "We have an official Discord server that is set up the way staff can moderate, etc. Of course, anyone can circumvent us and do whatever they want off our system, but if people are creating private OOC Discord servers, I want to be clear that staff will consider that OOC Collusion."

Sparkles says, "Also when I'm trying to scene with someone and they aren't responding while having a whole hot banter on the OOC channel, it isn't good feels."

Kinaed claims, "That's just how it is going to be. Please don't."

Boobermann says, "Sparkles hits it."

Kinaed says, "Okay, so we're at the top of the hour. I apologize for things getting a bit disorganized in terms of who went first, next, etc on the list of registered topics."

Kitty claims, "There is an OOC channel already, Violet. It is accessible to everyone."

Raspberries states, "I think Violet means having multiple OOC channels"

Condensation states, "Which doesn't work if three scenes are using it to joke and chitchat to their scene alone."

Raspberries says, "For break-out conversations"

Anonymouse says, "That's different to osay bants though, sparkles"

Datnebank claims, "I think violet meant a second osay channel no"

PrayTheMageAway trails off, "I was tryig to emote with a player who communicated more via osay than via emote and even said they were watching a tv show... kinda felt like i was being mined for rpxp"

Murrmurs states, "Yeesh pray. :("

Kitty states, "Right. That isn't okay."

GhostRoast claims, "@Datne, that was Yinadele, not Violet. Also, @Pray, big yikes. Not cool of them."

Kinaed states, "So, I do have some business that I need to attend to today, and our hour is up. As I said, I will need to read the log of this meeting to understand/formulate a point of view. Meanwhile, thank you for coming everyone. I look forward to our meeting next week. :)"

Violet claims, "Super uncool, I'm sorry to hear that Pray"

Joel waves.

Kinaed trails off, "On that, we're about to be transferred back to our regular RP in...3"

PrayTheMageAway muses, "Can i ask a quick last minute topic?"

Kinaed claims, "2.."

Raspberries waves.

Joel pontificates, "Wave before we get kicked out!"

Murrmurs exclaims, "Thanks for the level heads crew!"

GhostRoast waves.

Condensation waves.

Kitty claims, "And it seems like those who do overuse the osay channel assume others don't mind. Which, makes people  feel like jerks to have to say, 'quit it, keep it IC, please'. And, that shouldn't happen."

Kuzco bows.

Kinaed says to PrayTheMageAway, "Sorry, we're out of time.."

Kinaed trails off, "1..."

OneWing waves.

Anonymous says, "I wasn't afk."