ti-legacy.com

Kinaed states, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

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Kinaed claims to Flower, "Oh wow, thank you for bringing a friend."

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Kinaed exclaims to Khlara, "And I hope you're enjoying yourself Welcome to the game!"

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Xolorion states, "I remember how hard it can be to get your head around mudding the first time."

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Kinaed nods at Xolorion.

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Kinaed states, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

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Tasker states, "Took me several times over a couple years to finally get hooked on mudding"

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Tasker says, "But I am stupid"

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Khlara claims, "I am, it's very confusing right now but im trying to learn with flower and the websites help."

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Kinaed claims, "I got hooked quickly - was introduced to it by a boyfriend, so I always had someone in the room to explain things."

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Kinaed smiles.

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Kinaed nods at Khlara.

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Trajen says, "This is one of the more intricate muds, because it has great features, but it's also the best."

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Kinaed states, "Aww, that warms my heart."

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Kinaed says, "Anyone have a topic to register? If not, I'll kick off Staff Updates."

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Flower high fives Trajen.

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Kinaed says, "Last week was relatively quiet for me game-wise. I ran the Murder Mystery Dinner event, then buried my head in IRL work."

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Kinaed says, "Haven't seen a lot of policy cases or anything, so thank you all for mostly getting along and being a good bunch."

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Flower claims to Kinaed, "The event was fun! Even if I missed 90 percent."

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Alyria .:. https://tinyurl.com/sidelongaly
Andorig is apparently an ass who thinks he's important.
Delana - Crocodile Deedee
Drudwyn
Euric dul Guillard is your hot mess extraordinaire
Gaiseric
Gretchman
Hermoise
Khlara
Silvia is your garden-goer: https://imgur.com/Sphd0A4
Theodora: Has a pic! - https://tinyurl.com/ybuedmx6
Trajen feel free to beam me up please.

[Staff] Kinaed
[Staff] Leta
[Staff] Salem

System: Sat Aug 28 2021 20:08 Total People: 15
Reboot: Fri Aug 27 2021 13:21 Since Reboot: 19 Max Ever: 61

Please VOTE for TI on the links at https://ti-legacy.com

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Kinaed claims to Flower, "Thanks for joining in anyway "

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Kinaed states, "I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. And I probably need to think up what my next event will be."

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Kinaed states, "That's it for me."

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Kinaed wonders to Leta, "Care you give your update?"

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Leta nods.

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Salem appears in a swirling mist. [OOC]

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Kinaed watches her cat jump on her desk, candidly walk over to her teacup, then drink her tea.

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Leta claims, "I helped with player requests, recommends, and questions. I also updated helpfiles, mostly for our magic-using friends. If there are helpfiles that you think could use a fresh coat of paint, send me a tell. I will add them to my list."

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Kinaed claims to Leta, "Thank you "

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Kinaed queries to Salem, "Would you mind updating us, Salem? "

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Salem says, "I worked with the code today. I sadly didn't get whole lot done. My irl is a little hectitc."

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Kinaed comforts Salem.

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Kinaed claims to Salem, "Still appreciated regardless "

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Kinaed says, "Okay, that's all for present staff though I think Ghed is supplying an update too, so if we receive that, we'll share."

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Kinaed questions, "Our next agenda item is Player Heartbeat - how was the game for you in this last week, folks?"

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Sparkles states, "It was a bit quiet at some points this week. Though I know school is starting back up for folks so that might have something to do with it."

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Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

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Violet exclaims, "It's been a quiet week, agreed!"

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Flower states, "Good! Did wayyyy too much fishing a food sack n crate making. Chased mobs around.. but yes- this week was very quiet."

Xolorion claims, "Really good for me. A big shoutout to pof Theodora by the way, for taking all of my IC ideas and finding a way to translate it into plots and things, because I'd never be able to figure that stuff out myself."

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Violet asks, "I think some folks are also on vacation?"

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Kinaed claims, "I've certainly had minimal time myself, though I think I did log in midweek to handle a few boards."

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Violet has lost link.
Leta has lost link.

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Dazzl gives a thumbs up. "Likewise, life has been crazy behind the keyboard, but I've managed a couple of fun scenes."

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Gaiseric states, "I've been swamped with IRL more oft' than not, and it's been tough trying to muster the drive to pop on for a couple hours."

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Kinaed nods at Violet.

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Leta has reconnected.

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Kinaed comforts Gaiseric.

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Kinaed claims, "Alas, that's how life goes sometimes. It has been nice seeing some new faces though."

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Kinaed muses to Leta, "Oh, did we have Ghed's update?"

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Leta nods.

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Kinaed has transferred Dreams. [OOC]

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Kinaed gives Dreams some coins.

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Leta says, "From Ghed: I started wrapping up the hunger plot, processed evicted homes, and handled the usual requests and recommends."

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Leta states, "He also processed and debugged some plot-related items."

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Kinaed declares, "Nice Thanks!"

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Kinaed says, "Okay, we didn't have any topics registered today."

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Kinaed claims, "I suppose I could mention that staff are pondering our ennoblement process at the moment. We're thinking it might be nice to ennoble existing characters more often than apps because we think those characters have more 'staying power', but typically the theme doesn't really support a 'high social class mobility' so we want to keep the numbers low and find a good way to allow it in a controlled manner that's high achievement."

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Kinaed questions, "But we're not entirely sure what that might be. Any ideas for us to consider?"

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Deedee says, "I think the current status quo is fine"

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Dreams muses, "The seneschal is only allowed to ennoble one per term, right?"

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Deedee nods.

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Kinaed claims, "For context, the current status quo is that most of our noble ranks are filled with apps... that people app into then don't really 'take' to. We think it's because they're usually secondary characters."

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Dreams says, "So, that is one every six months. If you want more, I would just lift THAT limitation, and then keep it all IC."

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Anonymous claims, "I've noticed that most characters who app into nobles go inactive pretty quickly."

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Xolorion claims, "I think it's a decent idea but consider that staying power is often a two-edged sword - if ennoblement requires being a longstanding established character, people will be less willing to shelve their old characters and explore new ideas, less willing to take risks, and less willing to do exciting but dangerous things, knowing that it will take them a long time to get back to where they 'were'."

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Kinaed claims, "With regards to the physical ennoblement process for existing characters, it is that the Seneschal can put one person forward per term, that isn't themselves. If the player is active and has a history to support it, staff approve it."

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Flower states, "I imagine it would require a review of their standing in society, asset holdings and such to get an ennoblement approval.. idk. "

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Kinaed states to Flower, "I like that comment about asset holdings and such. We have a prestige system."

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Anonymous states, "I suppose you could always have Amir point at someone and say 'you, whip the peasants in (insert barony/county/march here)' every so often. But that feels a bit eh."

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Kinaed says, "If we type 'lore leaders', we can see who has prestige."

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Flower giggles at Anonymous.

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Sparkles says, "So IMHO the issue isn't ennobling folks in and of itself. The issue is kind what's been a systemic change in what the purpose and expected behaviors of nobility is that's kind of ... sidelined them in a serious degree."

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Kinaed asks of Sparkles, "I'm sorry, can you explain what you're referring to because I'm not sure I understand. Maybe some examples?"

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Violet has reconnected.

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Deedee states, "GLs do seem to wield more power than the average noble"

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Anonymous claims, "Part of that is because GLs are rarely app'd into, while nobles often are."

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Anonymous claims, "So nobles start off with no real social connections, but GLs often have them."

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Anonymous states, "Which is where the real power comes from."

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Kinaed states, "I think over time GLs have fought to gain that power and a low noble presence has made that slip happen with low resistance, to a degree. So I think that's true a bit."

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Dreams says, "I would say that depends on which guild. Not all grant nobility-like-respect. "

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Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

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Deedee claims, "As far as directing the game, I think even the Prime Medicus has more sway than an average baron"

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Kinaed finishes abruptly, "When I think of noble expected behavior though - I think of 'hiring people to do stuff and paying them' as being the biggest thing 'expected' of a 'good noble player'"

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Kinaed claims to Deedee, "That's true."

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Kinaed says, "But I think it's true because of low noble numbers rather than because it can't be extremely the opposite."

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Sparkles says, "Historically, for example, if you look at the past of the game there was a period of time where a lot of GLs were nobles. Nobles were more actively involved in kind of the 'running of things' so to speak. But overtime and I think more so after the closing of Court and the transition to the Council there's been an atmosphere implied in various ways that nobles should be more 'hands off' ... and to focus attention on more coded systems (like projects or prestige) than IC efforts or attentions."

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Kinaed says, "Especially if we start looking to get 1 noble per every OOC six months from existing characters going."

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Dreams states, "That would also partially be because the noble is not on their own land in Lithmore."

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Khlara is idle.

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Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

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Kinaed says, "I can see what you're saying now - thanks for that explanation."

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Trajen fidgets so he doesn't go idle

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Kinaed claims, "I don't mind noble GLs for the most part, though we have had noble apps that immediately go for GL roles that didn't make sense with their app."

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Dreams states, "When I played a noble, I was not allowed codely to take the University as an asset. It bummed me oit."

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Dreams claims, "Out."

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Kinaed claims, "And certainly at least 3 GLs are nobles by virtue of the theme and their guild roles."

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Kinaed muses to Dreams, "Was that a staff decision or something else?"

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Kinaed was unaware anyone even tried that.

Dreams states, "Code blocked it, I requested it after that, was told no."

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Khlara is no longer idle.

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Deedee states, "I don't know if there are any asset rosters that would work for nobles. I think such would be considered beneath their station"

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Kinaed says, "I wonder why. I have faith there may have been a good explanation, but I was completely unaware it even was in question. Thanks for the feedback"

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Khlara has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

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Dreams states, "It was beneath a noble to manage the University, apparently, but that didn't make sense to me. I just shrugged and moved on."

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Kinaed states, "A very Roman-esque view of nobles and business, I suppose."

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Kinaed queries, "Okay, so what I'm hearing is that it may not be worth fixing up or pushing the ennoblement path to be more solid if we don't do something around noble expectations, or is that just a separate thing for us to note?"

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Kinaed asks, "Ie, on the whole, would players like to see a path to ennoblement that's a bit more clear cut, and if so, do any of you have ideas for it?"

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Kinaed claims, "If the answer overall is no, that's okay."

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Deedee claims, "Even if we make the ennoblement path easier, few enough already do it"

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Kinaed claims, "It'll be interesting to me that we have it on our Staff Talking points, which implies someone raised the query to staff though. I may need to dig into the history of it"

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Deedee claims, "A lot of senechal terms end without ennobling someone"

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Anonymous says, "Well, when it comes to getting noble players that stick around, using established characters would probably make that happen. As for noble expectations... I'm honestly pretty neutral on that. Noble expectations aren't all that strict."

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Kinaed nods at Deedee.

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Dreams says, "I think it should continue to go through the Seneschal. And lift the "one per term" limit."

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Kinaed queries to Sparkles, "Do you have any theories about why Seneschals aren't keen to ennoble anyone?"

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Flower states, "I think people have ideas as to what they should do to become a noble but it is more of a pipe dream for people as it should be. From the start we are told raising our class is difficult."

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Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

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Kinaed nods at Flower.

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Dreams states, "I imagine it depends on who comes to them wanting ennoblement. There will always be IC things behind that situation."

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Sparkles states, "Yes, a few, though as it might reveal IC stuffs I'm happy to give insight after if you like."

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Kinaed says, "I think it should be difficult, for sure. To that end, I like the idea of one per Seneschal term because that means two per year."

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Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "Yes, I'd love to meet with you after to discuss."

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Sparkles nods.

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Violet states, "I don't really like the idea that because it's hard to elevate one's social class thematically it shouldn"

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Anonymous says to Kinaed, "I can tell you my perspective from my term if you want."

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Kinaed says to Anonymous, "Please "

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Violet says, "Eep. Shouldn't be a PC option. By nature of us carrying enough to play these characters, they're rather extraordinary. Otherwise we'd all be RPing serfs sloughing around in the muck"

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Anonymous says, "So I have no idea if this is common to all seneschals, but during my term, only two people actually asked to be considered for ennoblement, and neither of them persisted after that first ask. There were IC considerations which meant one wouldn't be chosen period, and my choice between the other person who asked and approaching someone else MYSELF to offer it was interrupted by the big kidnapping plot, which put everything else on hold."

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Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

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Kinaed questions, "So you're saying if the player had persisted, then you probably would have ennobled?"

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Kinaed has transferred GeeBee. [OOC]

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Kinaed gives GeeBee some coins.

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Anonymous states, "It would have helped their chances. Can't say whether it would or would not have happened, but for me personally, I'd have liked to see a little persistence."

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Kinaed nods at Anonymous.

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INFO: Azra has just created!

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Deedee states, "Regarding noble power and such"

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Gaiseric claims, "Mm."

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Kinaed wonders, "How would players feel about if we ennobled the Seneschal upon a successful completion of a term as a reward for their hard work and service to the game, assuming they don't get ousted, have a reign of terror, or become inactive and a waste of space - maybe some sort of player validation that the Senechal did well, maybe with a council vote or something?"

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Deedee asks, "What if we brought the court back, as sort of a higher court above the council?"

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Deedee says, "Things the council decide on needing to be approved by the court"

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Kinaed states, "Well, I'm thinking Council can be Court easily enough."

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Flower loved Court.

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Anonymous says to Kinaed, "Honestly I'm thinking that if we ennoble the seneschal after their term ends, we'll end up very top-heavy with nobles."

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Kinaed says, "It could easily do court things. I have no idea how it sees itself today."

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Kinaed claims to Anonymous, "Over a period of years, maybe."

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Kinaed claims to Anonymous, "And it's something we can evaluate over time."

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Deedee states, "The council is mostly guild-controlled. I don't think the non-GL members see themselves as having much sway"

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Kinaed wonders, "Should that change?"

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Sparkles questions, "Isn't the thing that Seneschal campaigns now are coded to be skewed in favor of someone already a noble running?"

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Deedee says, "If we're thinking of things for noble retention I'd say yes"

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Kinaed questions to Deedee, "To ennobling seneschals or to changing the council?"

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Anonymous says, "Seneschal campaigns are skewed to favor nobles"

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Deedee nods.

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Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "They are skewed that way, yes."

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Gaiseric wonders, "..Can someone run that back a bit more clearly?"

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Deedee says, "Not as heavily skewed as before"

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Gaiseric claims, "I tried, I really did, to keep up with what was being said, but I've gotten confused as to what's being discussed at this point."

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Deedee asks, "What's that Gaiseric?"

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Kinaed says, "But not as badly as they used to be. Regardless, it makes more sense for a gentry person to be ennobled than someone lower down overall."

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Gaiseric says, "On the topic of a Seneschal being ennobled after their term, I honestly think there's nothing wrong with that given, aside from one or two names, I can't honestly point out active nobles off-handedly."

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Kinaed states to Gaiseric, "Apologies. We're discussing the topic of a 'PC path to ennoblement' and if it should change. One of the reasons staff want it to change is that we have trouble retaining nobles. Partly this just comes down to relying on apps when often app characters don't take as secondary characters. However, primary character ennoblements have some thematic issues and we're worried about it becoming overly attainable."

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Deedee questions, "Should there be a limit on upwards mobility? For example, if you're freeman you can only be moved up to Gentry?"

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Kinaed states, "Some discussion thus far is: 1) we may need to look at how the Council works and re-establish Court to make it more fun, 2) Players tend not to be very proactive about seeking ennoblement through the Seneschal, or they may be and might be deemed unsuitable. Our current Seneschal will catch up with me after. 3) I asked if we may want to ennoble the Seneschals who meet a certain criteria. It was raised that may make us top heavy - over a long period of time."

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Kinaed claims to Deedee, "Possibly could do. Or maybe a limit per a certain amount of time. IE, you can only raise your class once every OOC year or something."

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Gaiseric states, "That actually seems reasonable. Speaking for myself, I have machinactions to seem some upwards social climbing."

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Kinaed nods at Gaiseric.

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Gaiseric states, "But I do think ennobling the seneschal post-term is fair, though perhaps leave some sort of.. I don't know the term for it."

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Kinaed claims, "There's a code cap on the number of nobles in the game - cannot be more than 15 percent of the population, btw."

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GeeBee declaims, "I guess my question then is whether we've identified why it is hard to retain nobles? I know that's slightly different from discussing ennoblement pathways but figure the root cause(s) also would need to be sorted out. I'm honestly not familiar, so apologies if this was already discussed before!"

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Trajen will redouble efforts to bring in players

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Xolorion questions, "How many do we have now? Is there a way to see?"

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Gaiseric asks, "Well, what do nobles actually -do- right now?"

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Kinaed claims to GeeBee, "I think the root cause is a double whammy - the first is that they tend to be app characters, which have a low success rate because they're usually not main characters and people haven't been able to 'try them on for size' - the second reason is that it can be boring at the top, especially when other nobles don't stick around and the social structures, like Court, aren't fulfilled."

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Deedee trails off, "I think there's two commands that can list nobles, trying to remember them..."

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Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Right now we have 3 active nobles: Marisa, Marcus, and Norrig - and Marcus is fairly inactive amongst them"

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Dreams states, "As for ennobling seneschals, I would be for it. They served in the highest allowed PC position. Obviously trustworthy enough. But I would caveat that with... only if they finish the term."

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(visnet) Player Alyria: I enjoyed my nobles that I actually played.. though the toed the line on their behavior. I find that RL pulled me away from the others I had app'd and got accepted. Nobles don't have to do anything but act proper for their station and look rich.. I feel the game is noble light right now.

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Kinaed nods at Dreams.

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Flower states, "Derp lol"

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Gaiseric claims, "I think that more or less gets to what I'm trying to get at, thanks Dreams."

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Flower claims, "I enjoyed my nobles that I actually played.. though the toed the line on their behavior. I find that RL pulled me away from the others I had app'd and got accepted. Nobles don't have to do anything but act proper for their station and look rich.. I feel the game is noble light right now."

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(visnet) Player Alyria: Ahem, pardon. That was for chat.

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Kinaed smiles at Flower.

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Gaiseric says, "Smoooth."

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(visnet) Staff Kinaed: We saw it! All good

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Deedee wonders, "How would you feel about my idea of nobles in the Court having power over council decisions, Flower?"

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(visnet) Player Khlara: Can someone tranfer me to character gen, please?

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(visnet) Staff Kinaed: Sure can

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Flower says, "I like the idea of a fully noble Court having the final say, it gives them their own meeting. As is Seneschal seems to have the final say on matters regardless of input."

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Deedee states, "Ah, 'guildlist nobles' was the command to list nobles"

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(visnet) Player Khlara: Thank you

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(visnet) Staff Kinaed: Happy to help

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Sparkles claims, "Nobles in 'Court' could attend Council meetings to have their opinions known."

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(visnet) Staff Leta: You can also use the chargen command to return to character generation if no staff member is available.

Gaiseric claims, "I have to disagree Flower, given the Seneschal can very quickly be pushed from office for going against a hard-pushed course of action."

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Flower claims, "Yes but it doesn't mean their opinions will be respected. "

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Gaiseric claims, "That can happen, yes."

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Tasker says, "I don't think anybody could bar a noble from attending court even if they wanted to, they are peers of the realm etc"

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Trajen questions, "Server right now 'what the heck? whhy are all the people querying me for this noble list?'"

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Tasker states, "Council, even, not court"

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Dreams says, "That... feels IC. And should probably be approached that way. Sneschals can be pushed out of office for not listening to people just like any other GL."

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Gaiseric states, "That was the point I was kind of getting at."

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Violet is idle.

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Violet is no longer idle.
Violet has returned from AFK.

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Kinaed states, "Well, we have 5 more minutes before the OOC Chat should wrap up."

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Kinaed says, "I do appreciate the player opinions and thoughts expressed thus far. It sounds like we're open to a Seneschal being ennobled, but maybe we need to think a bit more on the conditions around that. It sounds like the Council and Court may need some restructuring or changes - and maybe those things should be discussed ICly, etc."

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Kinaed wonders, "Does anyone else want to add anything before we wrap up?"

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Trajen exclaims, "Violet, you should come in as minus the N one day, and we'll all e like "Ahh! Watch out!""

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Tasker muses, "Are they not a Great Lord anyway?"

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Trajen states, "Or add an N I mean"

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Kinaed claims to Tasker, "They are during their tenure."

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Dazzl has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

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VIOLENT claims, "I have no idea what you mean, Trajen >.> <.<"

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Trajen declares, "Sorry, I spell so bad it's no wonder i messed up. I was trying to say, you should add an N in your name so you come in as Vilent and we'd all be like Ahh!"

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Kinaed says, "I think we're looking for a slow-trickle way to get nobles from the actual main character group, give players something to aspire to without making it a deluge of people being ennobled, and potentially look at what could be fun gameplay up at the top of the social ladder."

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Kinaed says, "It's a big ask and a lot of balancing."

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Kinaed queries, "With two minutes to spare - any public service announcements? "

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Tasker says, "Dav sucks"

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Deedee trails off, "You get a barony, and you get a barony..."

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Flower states, "Be a cyclist. "

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Anonymous states, "Omg tasker thats heresy"

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Tasker claims, "Omg is it"

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Dreams pokes Tasker.

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Flower laughs.

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Kinaed laughs, "Come to the Dark Side, my pets."

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Tasker holds a double-bladed sword fashioned out of rich, dark chocolate in his hand.

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Anonymous states, "Pfft. Implying we aren't all heretic unbelievers already."

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Deedee claims, "Cyclists are just davites with extra steps."

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Anonymous claims, "Just larping as faithful davites"

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Kinaed says, "Alright, thanks for everyone's attendance. I'm happy to receive further thoughts or ideas regarding this via tells, personal board, etc."

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Deedee waves.

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Dreams is NOT a heretic. On... THIS character.

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Tasker states, "SURE"

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Gaiseric states, "Think I'll take the exit, stage left, thanks."

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Trajen claims, "Oh Violet I got it sorry. lol"

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Kinaed declares, "Alright everyone - thank you for coming today and participating. I hope to see you next week!"

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Violet has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
GeeBee has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Dreams has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Sparkles has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Gaiseric has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Tasker has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Deedee has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Trajen has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Flower has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Kinaed has transferred Euric.