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Kinaed claims, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."


Kinaed claims, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."


Kinaed says, "I'll take the crickets as a no "


Kinaed claims, "Okay, last week - I read the OOC Chats from the meetings I missed. Pulled out some items to discuss with staff, and we had a staff meeting this morning. More forthcoming from that to be posted in Staff Decisions later. Hopefully we can continue a bit after the OOC Chat, timezones permitting."


Kinaed claims, "Other than that, I have been incognito, my apologies. As mentioned, crazy life."


Kinaed says, "That's it for me."

Kinaed says to Ghed, "You're alphabetically next in line "


Ghed claims, "Sorry, uhhh"


Ghed says, "This week I took it a little bit easier. Did some minor tweakings to the Path of Fire temple, a little bit of work on the Knight Keep. Player requests, typoes, recommends. The works. I'm busy IRL so my output and creativity is reduced."

Kinaed nods at Ghed.

Kinaed says to Ghed, "Thank you "

Ghed nods.

Kinaed states to Leta, "You're next "


Leta states, "I helped with the usual of player requests and recommends. Did a half-dozen or so helpfile typos and tested a few of Ghed's new add-ons as well. Most of my attention has been on the build-up of this plot! I hope those who have interacted with it so far are enjoying themselves. There is much more to come."


Kinaed claims, "Thanks I've heard good things about the plot, by the way."


Anonymous claims, "Fighting a demon was fun."


Izari declaims, "Thanks to all the plot/RP staff working on the event stuff, it's been a blast!"

Kinaed smiles.

Leta grins.

Kinaed claims to Salem, "Your turn "


Leta states, "Yay! Glad to hear it."


Salem states, "I fixed a bunch of bugs and finished the new butchering system. We need to balance the values and then that can be put into game."


Kinaed says, "That's great, thanks "


Elise pontificates, "The plot has given me a ton of character development and I love it! "

Kinaed smiles.

Salem says, "I also crashed the game a few times. XD"


Anonymous states, "Omg it was oyu"

Kinaed declares to Salem, "And fixed it!"

Kinaed claims to Temi, "You're up "


Temi claims, "I've been working on trying to respond to plots and requests and such, and I think I've finally got all of the liquid perfumes in, finishing up the availability of that through all the ranks, so I'll be back to looking at the forums for more adds to the crafting system - only things which don't require new code though."


Ghed says, "Badass"

Kinaed smiles.


Temi states, "And always busy with work and real life stuff, so my time is not as much as it could be"


Kinaed says, "Deeply appreciated, and I hope everyone enjoys the new toys. "

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed says, "I think that's all for Staff Updates "


Kinaed wonders, "So, Player Heartbeat - how was the game for you this week, folks?"


Sarathi states, "Do I even need to say anything"


Kinaed says, "Well, I wasn't around, so I'm interested in hearing "


Trogdor states, "Well, i have had fun, even if my char is about to pull his hair out"


Sarathi claims, "Been stupid good. I keep confusing people with how my character acts. And its so. Goddamn. Amusing."


Sarathi claims, "Everyone always expects the grunting gruff savage. And they get the exact opposite. AND THEY DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT."


Kinaed states, "Oh, so having fun all around so far That's great"


Sparkles states, "It's been an interesting time this week."

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "Sounds optimistic "


Kinaed wonders, "Anything bugging anyone that they want staff to know about?"


Ghed states, "Brb folks"

Ghed has gone AFK.


Izari shakes his head.


Sparkles claims, "Just a general PSA that with all the interesting things going on, folks don't forget to post rumors, it's how off-time folks find out about things."

Kinaed nods.

Temi nods in agreement.


Kinaed states, "On general PSAs, staff will be reaching out to GLs who we're concerned may be struggling to adhere to HELP POLICY GUILDLEADER in the near term."


Kinaed claims, "I don't think anyone present is going to hear from us though, so probably the wrong group"


Kinaed claims, "But we do think it's important to emphasize some of the expectations there."


Anonymous questions, "Is there a particularly part of that helpfile that isn't being met?"


Kinaed says, "People RPing with their guilds is the biggest item of concern."


Ghed y


Anonymous muses, "As in they aren't RPing with people IN their guilds or they're not RPing OUTSIDE of their guild?"


Kinaed claims, "People in their guild."


Anonymous states, "Hmm, okay.;"


Kinaed claims, "Anyway, we don't have any registered topics."


Kinaed muses, "We can chatter about things like this, if you want? http://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2500"


Kinaed muses, "Or we can drop back to our regularly scheduled RP? "


Anonymous muses, "What's the plan for the support system?"


Violet says, "I had a small topic, actually"


Temi claims, "No plan yet"


Temi claims, "We have heard some general displeasure with elements of it, and want to know what problems people have and what ideas"


Kinaed says, "At this point in time, we're going to remove the costs to subvert, but we're going to tighten up the help files and add a warning that support and subvert both should be for specific, directed RP as opposed to just situational roles. IE, the Reeves shouldn't subvert the Tenebrae just because they're game-wise against one another (this is for balance reasons)."


Kinaed claims, "But we see that as a short term patch and are keen to hear player ideas for a complete overhaul."


Kinaed says, "I laid out the premise in the post - why we did it and what we want out of it."


Kinaed claims, "And am interested to see what players come up with."


Kinaed states, "Er, but removing 'cost to subvert', I mean 'removing the RPxp requirement to subvert'"


Kinaed claims, "Not cost. Mistyped."


Sparkles queries, "Hmm, is there any concern that might lead to piling on?"


Temi claims, "We're also planning to more closely keep an eye on subvert reasons"


Anonymous questions, "What's your stance on immortal, undying hatreds for direct, specific RP reasons as subverts?"

Kinaed states to Anonymous, "Not allowed."


Temi questions, "That depends on what you mean by RP reasons?"


Anonymous states, "Person X did something heinous to me, so now I hate him forever and will always subvert him."


Trogdor states, "Hmm.. then it have a system in place where support/subvert has an expiration, imho"


Temi states, "If you mean, I am opposed to people fulfilling the role of Grand Inquisitor, you can't subvert them"


Kinaed states, "Oh, that's not what I thought"


Anonymous says, "No... I mean like... they actually did something."


Temi states, "I don't think we're opposed to subverting someone for doing something heinous to you"

Anonymous nods.


Kinaed states, "If they actually did something, go for it."


Temi states, "Or even something unheinous that you disliked particularly"


Kinaed claims, "Nurse your hatred to your heart's content. BUT"


Kinaed states, "What I thought you meant was "I created a Bob. Bob HATES Inquisitors with the passion of a million fiery suns. Can I subvert then because it's personal and unusual""


Anonymous claims, "Noooooooooooooo"


Sparkles muses, "Do you need cnotes or reasoning that explains how you think/know that person did said thing?"


Leta states, "I would hope that if deductive reasoning was being used to determine who was responsible, that was cnoted and in accordance with policy."


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "That would be, in my eyes, an OOC decision that could be used to facilitate targeting a player for "IC" reasons. Best to stay away from that kind of thing (yeah, I misunderstood you - but did want to explain what I was reacting to)"

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "Yes, it should be cnoted, but it's documented in the system when you put the reason in."


Anonymous states, "Kind of hard to be ambiguous when the bastard writes you an IC letter about it. lol. But thanks"


Temi says, "A lot of things don't require deduction, and those are just fine. But yeah, mention them in the subvert"


Kinaed says, "Please note: Staff do not review WHO subverted someone with RPA, but we may reveal WHY someone is subverted to RPA, and if we do so, it may be enough for a person to guess who."


Kinaed says, "I'm going to clarify that in the help file as well."


Trogdor states, "Note to self, do not mail anonymous else they will subvert you forever and ever and hate you "


Anonymous declaims, "I'm not that mean!"


Leta states, "Let's keep to neutral language in an OOC setting when speaking about specific IC antagonists."

Kinaed nods at Leta.


Trogdor states, "I think there should be a few classifications, public/private|support/subvert|actual/fake "

Leta nods.

Kinaed nods at trogdor.


Leta claims, "We are planning to clarify our helpfiles"

Kinaed claims to trogdor, "I think those things are great to be raised into that 'how would you overhaul the system' post"


Trogdor claims, "In other words, i as a tricksy person, may desire to publically declare my support of character Punky McPunkerstein, but am actually privately subverting them"


Kinaed says, "I plan to take care of the help files today."

Kinaed nods at trogdor.


Kinaed states, "That's perfectly okay, even now."


Temi says, "As it stands right now for RPA, if things aren't clear, we may have to talk to the person who did something"


Kinaed states, "Because we're opening up subvert without an RP requirement, staff do plan to be more discerning and monitor what's submitted into the system more strongly."


Kinaed says, "On the whole, the reason it was that way is because subverting is more damaging than supporting, so we wanted it to have good backing."


Kinaed says, "But in practice, we think players avoided being subverted just by avoiding RP with people that wouldn't agree with them. For example, the thief GLs who RPed only with one another and murdered most of their guild couldn't be subverted by their guild members because their guild members avoided RP with them."


Kinaed says, "Similarly, if Jane didn't want Bob to subvert her, she could just avoid RPing with him."


Kinaed states, "In general, we don't think this is the best solution, but we think it's better than requiring RP for support to balance it out, and we think the above is a real problem with the system even working at all."

Sparkles wonders, "In the past you used to be able to see standing with different Guilds etc. My understanding (could be wrong) was that was removed to get rid of the concern about meta, did that seem to help with that?"


Kinaed says, "The problem with requiring RP to give out support is that it precludes a lot of new characters (not necessarily new players) from being able to access the system early on when the character is in establishment phase, and locks new players out together."


Kinaed says, "Alltogether"

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "I think you're right, and I do think it helped."

Sparkles says, "So as far as new players and getting them involved goes, I will say that I think a shorter TL;DR version of Help Support might help."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Sparkles says, "Because sometimes new players are just super overwhelmed figuring out what they need to from all that."


Kinaed says, "I'll make note of that since I'm touching the help files today."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Kinaed says, "Also, we have agreed and will be implementing a HELP POLICY SMALLWORLDING soon."


Kinaed claims, "So thanks to whomever brought that up in OOC Chat in the last couple of weeks. We're in the process of writing it now."


Sparkles queries, "Anything new and specific that will go on there?"


Temi says, "I don't think it's intending to change the policy, just clarify it"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed claims, "And give it its own help file rather than having to inference that ti's uncool to use OOC info in an RP game."


Kinaed claims, "It's dotted throughout things like HELP TWINKING and IC/OOC Crossover, but it doesn't have its own definition."


Sparkles queries, "Can I bring something up related to that?"


Kinaed claims, "Sure can "

Sparkles claims, "I think clarifying it is great, I do think something that helps remind people about one of the most basic smallworld things - IE NPCs existing might be echoes in some super busy places. Granted you have to balance that so it doesn't get super annoying but ... it can be a good mental reminder."


Trogdor claims, "I also have a suggestion that could nudge people after Sparkles is done"


Leta exclaims, "Ghed is actively working on this!"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Sparkles says, "That maybe the Crossroads isn't the best spot to discuss your murder plans."

Kinaed nods at Leta.

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Trogdor states, "No fair, sparkles metagamed and took my idea from me somehow"


Kinaed queries, "Everyone knows how to 'look around' to get safety information about the area they're in, right?"

Temi grins at trogdor.


Sparkles states, "Ah, yes, one thing to note about that is that it warns you when you start doing something in an area but uh ... even with warnings on doesn't warn you if you intend to walk into a new space."

Leta wonders to Sparkles, "Are there any particular locations you would like more crowd/flavor echoes?"


Leta muses, "Or something that warns about how public a location is?"


Trogdor says, "Eventually, there could be a system that has an ebb and flow to it. like, during the day the market is bustling, but night there are very few people. Inn's would be opposite."

Kinaed nods at trogdor.


Kinaed states, "It would be a longer term goal, I think."


Sparkles states, "If we are day dreaming, linking it to Metrics could also be a dream."


Trogdor states, ""People start coming into the Queen's Inn, it is now near capacity" "People start filing out, it is nearly empty.""


Temi says, "I think I had a spec on that at one point"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Anonymous trails off, "Crossroads, Church Square, Queen's Inn, Columbina Cafe, Three Cups, Boar and Bear, Southside Market, Eventide Cafe, Aureate Stag, all over the Palace, all over the Cathedral, Physicians Waiting Room, Merchants Guildhall entrance, Hollow Globe, uh.... "

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi claims, "It probably never hit priority"

Temi grins.


Anonymous says, "Probably a lot more places"


Anonymous says, "Off the top of my head"


Violet states, "I believe Ghed planned to add NPC/flavor echoes to the Cathedral this week"


Sparkles wonders, "Ah, the Crossroads is one of the most obvious. Inns are good. Maybe that could be a cost for folks to set up for shops?"


Violet queries, "Though not sure? Crossroads would be baddass"


Violet states, "Also church square and river square"

Kinaed nods.


Sparkles muses, "Ah, I thought of a question now that River Square came up. But I think Violet had a topic?"


Kinaed exclaims, "Ahh, thanks!"


Kinaed asks of Violet, "Care to raise your topic?"


Violet declares, "Oh yeah! A little one"


Violet wonders, "With all the recent court-revitalization stuff and the implementation of dual guilding, any chance we'd allow nobles to dual-guild council?"


Kinaed claims, "Cautious maybe."


Anonymous muses, "What's dual-guild council?"


Kinaed claims, "I'll put it on Staff Talking points."


Temi says, "I assume that would be dual guilding with one of them council and one of them a regular guild"


Violet states, "Like being a patron in the Troubadours but also be guilded in the code council guild"

Kinaed states to Anonymous, "Suggesting that Nobles should all be in Council, but maybe should be able to dual guild elsewhere"


Anonymous says, "I'm kind of confused as to how that's even a question. It's not like codedly bein gin the council guild means anything. You're already understood to be on the council if you're noble."


Temi states, "Because of the current setup, rather than necessarily how it has to be"

Sparkles states, "I mean ... it means something given we are discussing the effect of the Support/Subvert system."

Leta has reconnected.


Kinaed claims, "It will require a code change at the minimum, and some discussion."

Sparkles nods.


Kinaed states, "I've put it in our Staff Talking Points. I don't think staff have a big 'no' but more of a 'what is the structure and if there's anything specific to consider' kind of discussion."

Sparkles says, "I'm happy to add thoughts there if it's desired."


Kinaed questions, "Did someone else say they had something to ask or a topic?"

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "Happy to hear your thoughts, sure Care to share here? I'll add them to the notes we review."


Sparkles says, "Off hand thoughts? Discussing the name of 'Council' versus 'Court' ... whether allowing said Guild to allow non-nobles to be assigned jobs in it would allow things like Court Bards or other positions to be noted/included. Ambassadors, etc."

Sparkles claims, "There's a lot of political positions at times assigned during RP that aren't noted/visible anywhere because there's not the best way of doing that."


Kinaed says, "I'm happy to change the guild name"


Deedee questions, "Should they not be seperate guilds?"


Sparkles claims, "And so I think sometimes that gives the false impression that "people aren't doing that sort of thing""


Kinaed claims, "I don't think we should dual guild other guilds in, that's going the step that got dual guilding removed in the first place."


Sparkles nods.


Kinaed says, "I don't see a point to having a Council and Court guild, they'd just be mostly the same membership."


Kinaed claims, "And I agree with nobles are in Council by virtue of title."


Kinaed says, "As are a buncho f other people, so maybe Council doesn't need a guild to be the Council."


Kinaed says, "But Court may need to be a guild."


Violet says, "My thought was just that if we want to 'revitalize court', having a code-grouping of courtiers would help"

Kinaed nods at Violet.


Violet states, "Because yeah, right now 95 percent of who is 'Council' is not code council, they're GLs and nobles who are doing other things (understandably)"

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "As the GL, do you want me to enact that change? I can do it pretty quickly, but I'm not sure if there may be some code effects given the refactor."

Kinaed nods at Violet.

Temi states, "Court might be a more useful guild than council, if we want to lean RP that way, instead of more to local Lithmore, like we initially changed it for"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed states, "I think the Council is a local function by a cross-group of people, and Court is a grouping of specific people right now."


Sparkles nods.


Kinaed claims, "So whatever the past may be, a re-alignment is probably in order to the current status."


Sparkles says, "I think renaming it Court might be a good choice. And then the Council is understood to be the body of GLs."


Kinaed states, "Okay, we're at the top of the hour - Sparkles, I'll make that change then."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Kinaed states, "I may need some help file updates from you."


Temi states, "Nobles and GLs can be on council without it being a guild"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Sparkles says, "Of course, just let me know what I can help with."


Kinaed exclaims, "Thank you everyone who came to this week's OOC Chat!"


Deedee states, "I'll have to remember to set my alarm earlier, forgot about the chat time change"


Kinaed says, "I'm going to put everyone back, and I look forward to seeing you again soon."

Deedee waves.

Sparkles waves.

Kinaed states to Deedee, "Yeah, Daylight Savings hit some timezones "

Kinaed declaims, "Take care, everyone!"