Today's Agenda:
- Staff Updates
- Player Topics
Does anyone have anything they want to add to the things to talk about today?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair holds a painted glass eyeball yoyo on a rough braided string of scarlet yarn in her hand.
Zeita questions, "Next plot?"
Kinaed states to Zeita, "We separate that out at the end now. Volunteers to discuss the plots for next week were going to be called at the end."
Zeita nods.
Kinaed muses, "Anyone want to add anything to our agenda?"
Samantha shrugs "I got nothin."
Temi claims, "Let's still discuss plots in the group meeting, for the current ones, to see how people are feeling done on the current ones."
Terryn says to Kinaed, "I'd like to see about getting places added to roster"
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Noah states, "I have something to discuss, gentry stuff."
Kinaed questions to Terryn, "No worries, just typo any missing ones please?"
Kinaed nods at Noah.
Terryn says to Kinaed, "Ah that works
"Kinaed says, "Okay, I'll kick off staff updates."
Kinaed says, "I can't remember doing much of anything last week. I've been approving recommends, but nothing above the general basic operations of TI. Next week will probably be the same."
Kinaed says, "Reviewing the changes board; we're in a bug kill blitz."
Kinaed states, "Primary focus beyond that is ranged combat for the moment. After that is Places code, I think."
Azarial says, "Wiping bugs, killing butts."
Kinaed states, "That's all for me, Az- you're up."
Terryn comforts Aza.
Azarial claims, "Oh look, mine's done."
Azarial grins.
Kinaed smiles.
Samantha snickers
Temi grins.
Azarial says, "Crash bugs, non-crash bugs, bugs that became crash bugs, wiping noses, and wipoing butts."
Kinaed says to Temi, "Your turn."
Kinaed states to Azarial, "It's good to be a parent
"Temi states, "Still aiming to have jeweling done for a Christmas present for everybody, but I'll need to buckle down and do some more on that."
Temi claims, "Mostly, I've been working on plots, which I hope everybody is enjoying and feeling free to get involved. There's been a lot of fun so far, so hopefully we can only increase that."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Temi states, "But other than that, RL work, alas."
Temi says, "So that's pretty much me."
Kinaed rocks from hoof to hoof knowing a plot that hasn't gotten out there yet and knows OOC knowledge isn't cool.
Kinaed exclaims, "But tres exciting!"
Kinaed pontificates, "Okay, Nedyra, you're up!"
Nedyra states, "I've been surprisingly less active than my usual, at least on terms of physically being logged into TI."
Nedyra claims, "Moving prep, school prep, all sorts of other real life goodness."
Nedyra says, "That's meant I'm keeping to mostly handling website things of late - as I don't need to be online here to do that."
Nedyra states, "That said, woodworking is fleshed out. I'll be bringing in ranking chabnges for the new recipes in the near future. this week, I'm hoping to start."
Kinaed states, "Nedyra's been working on some security hardening of the website."
Nedyra says, "Also: old woodworking items are due for updated descs. You saw it coming."
Nedyra claims, "This week, security upgrades for the website come into effect in full. This may or may not present issues for people with specifric content access (player blogs, for example)."
Nedyra claims, "If it breaks, mail or pboard me, but I'll probably know before you do."
Nedyra states, "And that's me."
Kinaed says, "Okay, staff updates are done."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "That almost sounded ominous"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair states, ""I'll probably know before you do.""
Kinaed says to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "He gets alerts when things go wrong."
Azarial shrugs eloquently with more tail than shoulders.
Nedyra claims to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "It is. Trust me. After fixing issues, I see everything - or close to it."
Azarial says, "Some poeple just know how to be root."
Kinaed muses, "Okay, let's see. That's staff stuff. Noah, you wanted to discuss gentry stuff? Mind introducing the topic?"
Nedyra claims, "... And my net connection is trying to do naughty things, so if I'm slow/unresponsive, my ISP is being slapped."
Noah states, "Good timing, I ended up AFK there but juust got back, sorry. *grin*"
Terryn thought of something he wanted to see about changing, when there's a moment. (OOC Emote)
Noah says, "This is sort of philosophical as much as anything... and I don't mean to call anyone out with this. The way the system works, I don't blame them for doing this."
Noah says, "But I've had several people tell me before they made a concept gentry solely for the income, often times with concepts that feel very much like freemen in play and style."
Noah claims, "And of course, that's natural because gentry get paid beaucoup bucks and it's very hard to be a crafter without that income."
Terryn has a wealthy family.
Noah claims, "But I think it kinda dilutes class conflict RP at times when gentry aren't portrayed as having the realistic downsides, such as the need to make appropriate marriages and behave to a class standard."
Kinaed nods at Noah.
Kinaed says, "I would tend to agree with that."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair nods at Noah.
Noah states, "Not pointing at anybody specific, and not meaning to shame anybody! You really hardly cannot get by with some things without the money."
Temi nods in agreement.
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair asks, "May I provide input on that?"
Kinaed nods at a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair.
Zeita claims, "Hard to respond, not having specifics to respond to there.
"Kinaed states, "That's why we're here, for everyone to discuss."
Kinaed claims, "There's a bit of a rock and a hard place though - we can set the theme, but we can't force people to play it. At best, we can create a lot of ill feelings by trying to control people."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "On one of my characters who was a Gentry, another gentry put it rather well to me. Social standing is one of the only things Gentry have that retain their position in society beyond that of their money. Honestly? If a player is treating a gentry character as a freeman, I sort've think that should be treated as just that. Knock them down a social class to Freeman due to loss of standing in the community which hits at their income."
Terryn states, "Personally, the biggest downfall to Gentry characters I've seen is that most play them as Freemen. Gentry are nobles(at least in their eyes)"
Noah nods at Terryn.
Noah says, "That's exactly what I mean, but put much more succinctly."
Kinaed claims, "Other hardcore RP games won't let people into the game without vetting the heck out of their concepts, etc, but we don't have the appetite or controlling nature for that, but the downside is definitely there that theme gets distorted on the ground."
Kinaed states to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "You may be correct, but if we do that, I think people will quit. And there's always an excuse for 'that instance only'."
Noah states, "Part of the problem, I think, is that all of the advantages of gentry are automatic and coded but the disadvantages are RP."
Kinaed wonders, "So, how do we detect it? And once we've detected it, how do we handle it systemically without losing players to offense?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair says, "Can I ask how my char has performed when it comes to acting gentry? She is of course 'new' gentry."
Zeita claims, "Freemen get the +rpxp advantage."
Temi muses, "Do people feel like they have enough information on how normal gentry behave and their limitations?"
Kinaed nods at Zeita.
Noah claims to a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair, "Being new gentry is a totally different place to be than established and I think you do it well."
Kinaed claims to Temi, "Good question."
Noah states, "Alack of info is, I think, a big part of it."
Temi nods.
Zeita queries, "Staff. Could I volunteer to do a 'day in the life of xclass' for helpfiles?"
Kinaed queries, "Do we need to limit population ratios at the gentry level, by the way?"
Noah states, "I think a lot of it might also be in subtler places."
Kinaed says to Zeita, "I'd love to see that. Or just behavior guides."
Karrina says, "I always imagine gentry like that of high society in London without all the nobility."
Noah says, "I keep coming back to crafts because I think everybody who's told me "I went gentry for the money" was a crafter."
Temi claims to Zeita, "Certainly wouldn't turn you down."
Kinaed nods at Karrina.
Terryn claims to a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair, "What noah said, you've actually rp'd trying to adjust"
Kinaed claims to Karrina, "It is."
Noah says, "And they felt unable to train a craft to a usable level due to the massively high cost."
Samantha questions, "What are the current numbers anyway kinaed?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair states to Kinaed, "There does seem to be a lot more gentry than other classes. That seems odd, but we ARE in the capital"
Nedyra claims, "I'm looking for additional content for the website, by the way. on top of updating what's currently there. Gentry-specific material could potentially be on the list."
Kinaed claims, "42 gentry, 7 nobility, 34 freeman"
Nedyra declares, "I give Qap!"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "I don't really understand where they come from with that. I've had no problem maintaining XP and silver on a freeman for that sort've thing."
Nedyra states, "Or QP."
Unrecognized command.
Noah states to Karrina, "It depends vastly from craft to craft, I think."
Samantha trails off, "Hmm... not really all that high"
Noah states, "Gah, mistarget, sorry."
Noah claims, "More gentry than freeman seems very odd to me."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "I've had more problem with skills taking forever to level even when I have an excess of XP to spend into them than I do with silver."
Azarial queries, "There's an old spec for definin gentry by cash on hand; would that clear this up, or mkae it worse?"
Zeita wonders, "I thought we could either a) make gentry more expensive to purchase OR b) limit it to one gentry per account?"
Temi claims, "Odd but not hard to believe at the moment."
Noah trails off, "I like both of those fixes Zeita's saying. I'd LOVE to define gentry by actual assets but that seems like it'd take so much total rewriting..."
Karrina claims, "Right now woodworking is feasible since a person can chop down their own wood for free. Herbalism is the same since a number of your materials you can grow yourself."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair states to Azarial, "In my chars instance, she's gentry because of graduating from the university, which doesn't apply to income"
Kinaed states, "I'm fairly certain the merchants guild provides plenty of support for crafters. I also think that merchants in specific areas where money is required can easily maintain being gentry. Gentry typically become gentry though business, historically, even though getting your hands dirty was another reason the nobility turned their noses up to the gentry when the bourgeois appeared."
Terryn uses this to promote his old 'change to wealth' forum post.
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair asks, "But aren't Gentry defined by wealth, not education?"
Noah claims to Terryn, "Oh, yeah, still very pro that idea."
Nedyra claims to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "They're defined sort of by both."
Noah claims, "MOST gentry are defined by wealth, sometimes by prestige (Gls, diplomas)"
Terryn claims to Noah, "It makes sense, since they are supposed to be continuously wealthy."
Zeita claims, "And by family."
Noah claims, "It'd be nicer if the two were uncoupled so 'prestige' gentry didn't get the auto income. *grin*"
Noah states to Terryn, "I was 100% behind your change, on that one."
Azarial muses, "What about splitting gentry, and the perks for income are for the wealth driven gentry, and the prestiege gentry get freeman income?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair wonders, "Maybe like guild subclasses?"
Karrina claims, "Often wealth, actual social standing, or even family can make one gentry."
Azarial states, "Purchase it, prestige. earn it, wealth."
Noah says, "I'd love to flip it so you got gentry IF you had the income, OR if you had the prestige, not the income if you had gentry. So you buy the income to get the class, not vice versa."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "I don't really like that honestly."
Kinaed wonders, "What if we remove gentry from initial class purchase and have it be something requested/applied for?"
Noah says, "Huh, that's interesting. I would love to see people forced to 'define' their gentryhood."
Azarial wonders, "Only avilable after X hours rp?"
Noah claims, "What's your family, where's the money come from, etc."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair nods to noah
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair nods to Noah
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "I do like having to have a gentry character approved."
Kinaed says, "Maybe give it to the Reeves or something. Or re-do the registration stuff that Qharos had and require a reason that can be reviewed."
Kinaed wonders, "Purchase gentry 'reason' then it goes into the accept/reject queue?"
Noah says, "Wouldn't have to ask for much from the players, but I'd like that."
Kinaed says, "But I don't see it changing the issue."
Temi claims, "Meaning an 'application' thing, rather than a primarily raising up the ranks thing? I don't want to encourage becoming gentry."
Temi nods at Kinaed.
Noah says, "I think it would help a little with the issue, but probably not the main thrust."
Zeita states to Kinaed, "People would be less frivolous about gentry status."
Kinaed states, "People buy gentry because it gives them more money, if we change how/why, epople will still do the same thing, and just justify it IC, and probably never do more than play lip service to it."
Noah states, "So long as people feel they need the money even if it doesn't necessarily fit the concept, they'll go for the money."
Kinaed nods at Noah.
Temi states, "I think they do already."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Noah states, "But I think guides and limits and forcing people to think help, as well as considering reducing the need."
Azarial asks, "So how would we define income? like purchasing wealth with xp, and it kicks it up a little until it caps out?"
Kinaed states, "It's already happening, just not with 'look a staff member in the eye and dissemble'
"Kinaed claims, "I think we should pull away from gentry being available in chargen."
Noah states, "Terryn's purchase income idea to buy income instead of lump sums would let income be a little better defined."
Azarial says, "Ahh, so it;s been proposed already."
Kinaed states, "We probably should flag gentry players based on some underyling code things, which we can discuss, then manually decide if they are or are not."
Terryn claims to Azarial, "I have a post that talks about that, increasing the weekly payout instead of 1 lump sum"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair wonders, "Maybe lower the cost of purchase wealth and set it that way?"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "Up to a cap"
Kinaed says, "The problem is, the wealth system as it is now is pretty good. At least when purchase wealth itself is ignored. That's a bit over the top."
Azarial would prolly add an 'income' var, so as to not burden soe with an absurd amount of xp by reducing wealth costs
Noah asks, "viewtopic.php?f=28&t=934&hilit=purchase+wealth"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair claims, "A problem with affording Gentryhood by income in game though.. I think It would end up making everyone in higher ranks in guilds gentry and everyone lower ranked not. That'd limit high guild ranked freeman or novice guilded gentry"
Noah says, "There is the thread."
Kinaed says, "But buying silver and the whole amount of silver in the game/costs are pretty good."
Nedyra claims, "I wonder if it would be worthwhile requiring things like a background for any character who wants to jump straight into gentry. Give them something to play to, and something for others to track."
Noah claims, "I think we can change purchase to let people buy incomes but at the same general 'rate/balance' as purchse silver/wealth allows right now."
Temi wonders about making gentry income vary more wildly. Like negative to positive wildly.
Terryn asks, "The post i started: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=934&p=5829&hilit=wealth#p5829"
Kinaed muses to a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair, "Can you explain why that'd be a problem rather than the intended result?"
Azarial queries, "Weekly/monthly xp hits when the cash hits the bank, as if regularly purchasing silver, but at a reduced rate for having purchased income?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair states to Kinaed, "Less overall variety of char concepts in the end. "
Noah states, "If 50000 XP buys 25000 silver, how quickly do you earn XP? That allows you to convert XP to weekly income and set appropriate maxes/prices for a similar idea."
Azarial claims, "Kin should hvae those numbers; we've been refining things towards a set value of rpxp per ooc year"
Nedyra queries to Noah, "So basicly, tying your earned silver to the amount of actual RP?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair says to Temi, "In my Chars case, I think she makes more money code wise than she probably should. She's not wealthy by background, and only gentry by Diploma"
Temi states, "Freemen get their money every week as a dependable normal job, but gentry are based on investments and businesses and such, and sometimes it costs more, and you have to be able to eat those weeks. But some weeks are good. Might be less desirable for the just 'want to ignore needing money!' people."
Noah nods at Azarial.
Azarial states to Temi, "That would be interesting"
Noah says to Nedyra, "Just changing purchase wealth so it still represents the same amount of money for the same amount of 'time', more or less."
Noah pontificates to Temi, "I like that too!"
Kinaed queries, "Firstly, how do we detect people who are doing it for the money alone and not RPing it?"
Noah says, "I think there's so many different ways this could go."
Noah states, "And almost any fix would help a little."
Azarial says, "Players on the ground, I figure. code cannot do that."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "I don't really like the idea of tying it to RP because not everyone in the gentry level can be on every day like some people. Those who are on constantly benefit from the XP gains already."
Kinaed wonders, "And if they did RP it, would we have a problem at all?"
Kinaed nods at a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair.
Noah states, "I would be fine with gentry who hang out in seedy freeman taverns and etc. if they're RPing being a disgrace to their name."
Samantha nods in agreeance with a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair
Noah grins.
Kinaed says to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "I think that's a fair point. We can't tye a person's ability to play a role to how much time they have to play."
Karrina muses, "Perhaps becoming gentry from freeman can be based upon supporters that a person may have?"
Samantha says, "Hold up here for a second noah"
Azarial questions, "And maintain?"
Kinaed says, "Well, we already have some xblocks and accepts designed to keep freeman out of places without highlighting to them that their behavior is off."
Noah trails off, "I'm not sure my suggestion with income got through..."
Nedyra nods at Kinaed.
Nedyra says, "And same with gentry."
Kinaed claims to Karrina, "That's an interesting view."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair imagines a stock market where gentry make investments that fluctuate week to week. If they lose their wealth they lose their status
Samantha questions, "What you just said.. what if you the only gentry on, and everyone else on at that time is freeman, are you just suppose to forego rp to keep to theme?"
Terryn claims to Kinaed, "Any freeman can bypass those with a quick silver purchase"
Karrina states to Terryn, "Not IP, but actual support."
Kinaed claims to Terryn, "Their ability to do that will be based on xp earned, which is also linked to time RPing."
Noah claims to Samantha, "No, I'm not saying that, but let me also say that NEVER happens.
"Zeita questions, "Could we put some similar blocks on 'freeman' taverns?"
Zeita states, "Where they can be bypassed."
Kinaed nods at Zeita.
Kinaed says, "Possibly, but they're messy."
Noah says, "I am saying that if you're gentry and you see four people in the Bear and the Boar, you should recognize that going to that scene would be out of character and would be scandalous, and RP it accordingly."
Zeita says, "Not a big point, anyway to the main discussion."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair questions, "Are these bypasses messages like when you go to Southside as a Gentry?"
Terryn says to Zeita, "Only real block is Southside, and ther eis a bypass"
Samantha says, "That right is a lie noah. There are plenty of times late at night where there is barely anyone on, or if there is it's more of one group than the other"
Karrina states, "Bribe the bouncer at the Crow's Nest to forget they saw you and then slip out the back."
Kinaed wonders, "How do people know when they're RPing with someone who is gentry?"
Noah states to Samantha, "The gentry players are both more numerous and more active than the freeman so it's very rare to see one gentry and all freeman otherwise is what I meant."
Samantha claims, "That too kinaed"
Noah says to Kinaed, "Clothes, generally."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair muses, "Are the Crow's nest and bear and boar Southside?"
Terryn says to Kinaed, "Silver and silk"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "Clothes and perfumes/colognes myself"
Noah says, "Almost all the gentry I see walk about in silk, or introduce themselves with their patronym."
Samantha claims, "No they are not sunkissed"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "Since the second are sort've expensive"
Kinaed says, "Okay, well in that case, they're obvious."
Kinaed states, "If they're obvious in RP, then I don't think people are buying gentry and trying to hide it for the income."
Karrina claims, "I think the only things saying I'm gentry on me are a necklace and a ring."
Temi states, "I don't think they're trying to hide it, just not really embracing what it means."
Noah states, "I don't want to bash on these players because theme is sort of a subjective thing."
Terryn claims to Kinaed, "I've had one person insist they weren't gentry after introducing themselves with a patronym"
Nedyra states, "If there's a gentryman wandering about where a gentryman ought not to be, you're well within your right to handle it ICly as your character would."
Noah says, "Well, I am not gentry despite my patronym (bard, it's complicated.)"
Kinaed claims, "I think what we have here is a bit more like this:
1) People chosing gentry from the view it is easier to play, and
2) People judging other people's RP as counter to theme when they do something that is viewed as non-thematic"
Kinaed nods at Noah.
Zeita muses, "Doesn't high rank in guild require gentrification?"
Noah claims, "It allows gentrification."
Nedyra nods in agreement with Noah.
Kinaed says to Zeita, "Depends on the guild and the role the player plays."
Noah says, "Which the person is allowed to claim or not."
Samantha states, "That is exactly what I am seeing this as kinaed"
Kinaed claims, "I'd argue a Court Bard would have a hell of a time explaining why they're not gentry, but a master acrobat, less so."
Noah nods at Kinaed.
Terryn says to Noah, ""your right, you arent gentry, technically you are the lowest noble.""
Karrina says, "Like High in the Knights or even reaching Knight rank is considered being high in society."
Kinaed falls into a thoughtful silence.
Noah states, "I live in Southside and perform in the Stardust and wear old leather, I should realistically be laughed out of the concept of gentry without changing everything about how my PC acts."
Noah claims, "Patronym or not."
Noah claims, "It's not simple, I ultimately just wanna see the implications of gentry as a class played up more, and maybe fewer gentry overall."
Kinaed muses, "This is a bit tough. How badly is this affecting people's fun of the game?"
Azarial claims, "Well, it wouldn;t be hard to slap a cap on accounts for gentry"
Terryn muses, "What about bards having to buy the Op like gentry have to be bought?"
Noah says, "It's troubled me because I try to do a lot of class conflict RP."
Zeita states, "Not affecting me at all, personally."
Temi claims, "I think the knowledge in the helpfiles would be a good start."
Samantha claims, "It isn't affecting me what so ever"
Noah states, "And I get a lot of gentry insisting there is zero difference between gentry and freemen."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair says, "To Kinaed's first point (and I'm not a crafter) Perhaps making raw materials easier and/or cheaper would alleviate that problem. To the 2nd point, I like the idea of making Gentry very dependant on wealth/status, but also I like that there are ways to gentry besides wealth to make things always less than clear cut"
Kinaed queries, "Bob shows up at the Bear and Boar in silver and silk, and everyone gets annoyed, but doesn't ICly heckle him or give him any issue with his behavior, just complains OOCly about it?"
Kinaed queries, "Is this what is happening?"
Noah states, "I heckle people ICly and tend to get viewed like a crazy person.
"Noah claims, "Like, what are you even talking about."
Temi has gone AFK.
Nedyra queries, "Think that can possibly be fixedwith a general reminder to the pbase, possibly?"
Zeita says to a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair, "Crafting is only expensive to get established with. Once you do, the money starts rolling in."
Karrina goes around and pretends that most people are servants that will do what ever she orders.
Azarial queries, "Can add progs that check for incorrect status and the mobs can heckle?"
Kinaed queries, "Well, for those players here, can we agree not to heckle people like Noah when they enforce theme, and actually support one another for attempting it whenever possible?"
Azarial claims, "There used to be one about women wearing pants to the baths."
Noah says, "I think reminders and education will do a lot."
Karrina nods.
Nedyra states to Azarial, "There still is, unleess somebody nuked it while I was napping."
Nedyra claims, "Vavardi bathhouse."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "That's why a beginning freeman crafter should seek out a sponsor for it or a loan from say the merchants to get started. It's sort've an immersion thing."
Azarial says, "...we've not had the pants issue in a while, thankfully."
Noah says, "And certainly I don't want people -scolded- or anything for a slightly different view of theme. Just that we incentivize things in a way that makes gentry the smart choice all the time."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair claims to Zeita, "Maybe the cheap materials for easy level crafts should be cheaper easier to obtain (makes sense via supply and demand.) but again, I'm a bit out of my league here"
Kinaed states, "From the perspective of gentry, it's possible that the benefits of gentry might not be appropriate to be available on login by simply typing a command."
Kinaed says, "How can we link gentry status with their behaivor? The best I've seen so far is support, but support tends to be very political rather than social per se, not to say that they're not connected."
Azarial queries, "X hours of rp or y ro earned before it kicks in to repsent getting established in the city?"
Noah states, "It's probably too tough to actively make people's gentry status fluctuate for their behavior without a really complex reputation system."
Tomas is idle.
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair says, "Also as a newbie, it may be difficult to determine if a room isn't appropriate for your class"
Noah claims, "Like GL barometers but for everybody in the city in terms of respect and power."
Azarial states, "Yeah. that's tricky to design, let alone iomplement. I dind;t do well in my AI courses."
Noah states, "Which strikes me as very thorny and not worth the effort."
Terryn states to Kinaed, "Honestly, I don't want it tied to support. My experiences with support have been a bit negative, I think that should stick to GL's."
Tomas is no longer idle.
Tomas has returned from AFK.
Zeita claims, "I agree, don't tie to support."
Kinaed claims, "Well, we can probably easily set a class on rooms in the game and give people more xp for RPing in the ones right for their class."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair has another issue he'd like to raise when this discussion finishes.
Noah claims, "Oh, I like that too, for rooms that are indeed strongly 'classed'."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair claims, "There should be hated gentry and loved freeman, so support doesn't make sense to me either"
Samantha says, "I like azarial's previous idea, of setting a limit per account similar to mages"
Noah claims, "Most rooms I think should be generic, but Crow's Nest and Bear and Boar are freeman joints, for example."
Noah nods at Samantha.
Noah also likes that.
Azarial was repeating someone else;s suggestion
Kinaed muses, "We can do that too, would people support a limit of gentry #s per account?"
Tomas claims, "I think that while we all have a broad idea of what gentry is and maybe some specifics, the idea of gentry and allt he permutations of it that anyone could play is too complciated to put into any coded system"
Karrina states, "The Queen's neutral territory."
Noah claims, "I would. Two or three."
Azarial queries, "With maybe a tag under the weather about incorrect classed rooms?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair nods at Kinaed.
Karrina states, "I would say two per account"
Zeita states, "1"
Terryn claims, "And as far as gentry not going to freeman places, that goes against theme. Gentry are trying to be nobles, and one of the Laws of the Church involves nobles mingling with the masses."
Noah grins at Zeita.
Kinaed claims, "I'd go with one if we were going to bother."
Azarial states, "We can start at one, and increase as needed."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair nods at Kinaed.
Karrina claims to Azarial, "If we could add it to the autowarn system for RPXP would be good."
Noah states to Terryn, "I think that means you only flag very certain rooms that way."
Kinaed nods at Karrina.
Kinaed claims, "That should be easy."
Azarial says, "Better to increase later than decrease. no one likes leaving monty haul behind."
Samantha says, "Terryn does have a point"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair wonders, "What about those of us who already have a few gentry?"
Azarial states, "No new gentry until you are below the cap."
Kinaed has to read Terryn's point. Moment.
Zeita states, "Anyone with more would be grandfathered in."
Noah states, "You don't flag the Almshouse as freeman, or the Queen's, or Church Square or most taverns - just REALLY low-rent joints where nobles/gentry are less likely to mingle."
Kinaed says to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "I'd not change anything about people who already have them."
Nedyra states to Terryn, "There's nothing wrong with a gentryman wandering into a freeman area. And there'd be nothing wrong with the freemen in those areas taking issue with it."
Terryn claims, "And as far as gentry not going to freeman places, that goes against theme. Gentry are trying to be nobles, and one of the Laws of the Church involves nobles mingling with the masses.(repost for Kinky)"
Kinaed claims, "I'd only flag places that were intended for a clear demographic. And I'd probably lump nobles and gentry together."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair claims, "And it's not like they CANT go there. Just get -1 to RP gain maybe"
Karrina states, "And then places like the Bluebird or the Hothouse that requires Gentry status to even walk through the door would get the Gentry flag."
Noah nods at a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair.
Kinaed nods at a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair.
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "I don't really get why flags are needed. If you're gentry walking into a place where you don't belong then expect to be heckled by the freemen. If the freemen players don't support said heckling then that's their fault."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "Not the Gentry's"
Zeita claims, "I disagree that gentry are trying to be nobles."
Terryn had a very Gentry wedding, nobles, gentry and the cardinal.
Kinaed says to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "I think that's problematic."
Noah muses to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "Do you heckle gentry? *grin*"
Samantha claims, "Gentry are more like wannabe nobles"
Azarial nods at Samantha.
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair states, "I have, yes
"Karrina claims to Terryn, "We could say we had a noble wedding."
Noah claims, "It's difficult to expect people to cause that kind of conflict because it makes you be the bad guy. It's unpleasant and often times you feel unsupported."
Terryn states to Zeita, "They are, they amass wealth that raises their station and endangers true Nobles."
Kinaed claims to Zeita, "I don't disagree. I think in a broad sense, most gentry want to be nobility at this period in time."
Noah claims, "It's better to help people act thematically."
Noah wonders, "Rather than have code and theme opposing one another, y'know?"
Azarial states, "Everyone wants to be a nob. the nobs want the crown. the crown wants to keep it. somewhere in there, someone dies for the gain of another and the deck shuffles slightly."
Zeita says to Terryn, "IT is a matter of perspective. I would see it as a different order trying to surpass the nobility."
Samantha states, "Simplest way of putting it"
Terryn says to Azarial, "I've played a noble from gentry, I don't want to be one anymore, at least on this guy. (though I did in the beginning)"
Noah says, "The overall concept holds for the class, though, I think it's fair to say - you want to be acknowledged as 'above freemen' in a real and very meaningful sense."
Azarial states, "Thenatically speaking on the npc front. I acknowledge that nob rp isn;t there yet."
Zeita would refuse becoming a noble if offered IC.
Noah states, "An entirely different class of being in the way that nobles are."
Noah claims, "Doesn't have to be true for every gentry to be thematically true, though."
Terryn says to Noah, "Can we thematically have all of the gentry make a ship, host a noble party, then destroy it? Then everyone gets bumped up one."
Zeita nods. I know. I'm just disputing blanket claims.
Noah claims to Terryn, "The Red Boating."
Terryn exclaims to Noah, "YES!"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair states, "In my char's instance, She went to the university because she's smart and she knew that would keep her from being a broke vinter the rest of her life. It was the only method of social climbing available to her"
Samantha trails off, "Terryn may not want to be noble, but if nobles see terryn with not only alot of money, but support, he is viewed as a risk aka enchroaching on their territory. Because what if terryn just suddenly decides to support another noble against one... he is a threat"
Noah says, "Anyway, I'm sorry if I've made anybody feel judged or implied their RP was bad. That was not my intention. It's one of those tragedy of the commons situations where we all do what makes the best sense for us individually but we end up with piles of gentry. *grin*"
Kinaed states, "Okay, I think we need to shelve this discussion for awhile. We've used most of the meeting on it. I'd like to take a few items from it:
1) We need to limit the number of gentry people can play on their accounts
2) It may be worthwhile giving a class to specific areas
3) Players, for heaven's sake, please support other players who ICly enforce theme and don't just back your friend 'cause they're your IC friend. If you're doing something socially wrong on TI, really it should have major consequences in this setting.
4) We probably need to look at the structure of gentry in general."
Terryn claims to Samantha, "Hence why the nobles need to work to get him on their side
"A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair states, "Tbh, I wouldn't mind seeing a few more nobles ingame. I've only seen like 2 actual noble families currently."
Kinaed says, "We may well be looking at a reputation system."
Noah states to Kinaed, "Thanks for letting us talk about this at such good length. I'm glad it's on staff's plate, that was my main hope for bringing it up.
"A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair nods at Kinaed.
Kinaed questions, "Anyone else have anything they want to discuss?"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair raises hand.
Kinaed questions to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "What's up?"
Zeita says to Kinaed, "My worry with reputation is that it wouldn't reinforce theme but reinforce friend connections."
Terryn raises his hand too.
Samantha nods in agreeance with zeita
Kinaed nods at Zeita.
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair asks, "Earlier in the OOC Discussion it was mentioned how woodworkers have woodcutting available to them. Is it possible to introduce something akin to mining for the trades that use ore?"
Terryn states to Kinaed, "Though I don't think a system should be put in place. My feelings on it."
Kinaed trails off, "Elio first, then Terryn, then... write it down and bring it to the next chat
"Kinaed muses to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "We've decided to do that for some crafts and not for others. Can you provide an example of what you want/are looking for in particular?"
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair states, "Ore has to be mined and smelted before it's ready to be worked. Much more laborious process than cutting trees down."
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair says, "Mostly just another way to get ore. My experience so far has been only being able to go to one of two shops on an alt of mine and paying out a buttload to be able to do anything with the profession."
Kinaed claims, "If you're specifically speaking about ores, no. We've decided against mining being in game in particular, in large part because there's no place nearby to geographically mine most ores."
Noah claims to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "Ah! That's what I meant earlier about some crafts being very very hard to progress in without tons'o money. *grin*"
Karrina states to a woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair, "A tree has to be chopped down and then milled before it can be turned into furniture."
Kinaed claims to a tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair, "I'd recommend joining the merchants if you want anything more than casual support and a costly experience. The guild helps its members with materials and costs."
Kinaed states, "Okay, Terryn, your turn."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair asks, "How about making tin/pewter/cheap ass metals more available?"
A tall tubori man with sea-blue eyes and dark hair claims, "Maybe at least revisiting the -cost- of said ore? Currently it's a heck of a lot cheaper for the others."
Terryn says to Kinaed, "Just wanted to see if copying keys can be changed so the person being tied to them doesn't have to be there."
A woman with sunkissed skin and inky black hair says to Karrina, "I agree, but still seems less of a big deal than metal. Also I'm just pointing it out, not really weighing in one way or the other"
Azarial says, "That leads to the behavior that was meant to halt."
Terryn questions to Azarial, "The keys?"
Azarial nods.
Noah says, "I think we need salvage asap, imo."
Kinaed says, "I'm not sure how to respond to that at this time, I'll have to ask you to let me ruminate, then rejoin the conversation at a later date/time."
Kinaed states to Terryn, "Probably not at this time re: key copying."
Terryn says to Azarial, "It would still be the owner making the keys though, and they'd have to tie it to someone. My example is with Karrina. Terryn needed to make her keys but wanted it to be a surprise, but she had to be there for him to put her name on them."
Azarial says, "Ahh, on that side. posibly."
Kinaed says to Terryn, "You can go to a staff member to make a surprise."
Kinaed muses, "I don't think the person you want to give them to needs to be there though, just the current owner?"
Noah wonders, "It would be nice just to save effort, I do agree with Terryn. I think the target does have to be there, yeah?"
Kinaed says, "That we can change."
Noah seems to recall this being a problem for me too in the past, but could be wrong.
Terryn says to Kinaed, "No, the person you are tying them to has to be there, you don't have to be in the lockshop though."
Kinaed states, "That's just a weird reversal from intended. Please bug it."
Terryn says OOCly, "K"
Kinaed says, "The owner clearly needs to give the key up and specify who the new owner is, but the new owner needing to be around seems superfluous. "
Terryn nods in agreement with Kinaed.
Kinaed queries, "Okay, we're over time for the OOC Chat. Can I get hands for people who want to stay to discuss plot stuff?"