Gambit Discussion!

[vaxin]

I dislike gambits as well. It's too easy to manipulate the system, to bandwagon, and I've always been of the opinion that TI shouldn't be a democracy.

[Kinaed]

...staff seem keen to bend theme...

On the contrary - staff are hands off. This is, in fact, the complaint. That staff don't rush in to force people to act to theme when THEY bend it.

Coupled with this truth:

...folks that do have that IC power and try to utilize it are seen by others as being 'party poopers' for 'ruining people's fun' when they try ICly to enforce things."

The fact is that someone has to take the shit for this. Staff see it as a player issue, and players want it to be a staff issue.

ICly, sure the top down approach has some merit - but it is not the full solution and is again more of a convenience to say 'it's not my problem, it's yours'. And the top people are still players, not staff. The true solution is the grassroots solution - everyone buying in and agreeing that they want a thematic game, then checking their own RP, and peer pressuring others. It's never worked in practice, as Rabek put it, because it's never actually happened in practice. A collective of players who agree to play thematically and work to reinforce that does not exist at any tier of the game. As far as I can tell, all players of TI are generally inclined to follow theme until or unless it disagrees with their personal agenda, then it's out the door.

My view is that if players are not willing to make the effort, then players are not going to have a thematic game no matter how much staff get involved. If we start ruining people's RP by getting involved, etc, all we'll do is irritate people with little payoff. As I said earlier, we're not close enough to RP to effectively monitor this. At best, we''d be called in to be someone's hammer when Jane and Joe aren't getting along. We may get a higher level of surface compliance, but 1) people will dislike the game and leave because of staff controlling them and 2) the game will not become thematic overall because the theme issue isn't just with the top people, it's all over and the problem is too widespread for 4 staff to deal with.

So again, I entreat people - be the change you want to see.

As for gambits - I like them. For the first time, we have a bloodless way to remove GLs. And maybe they need some tweaking to protect thematic players from being booted for silly reasons simply because someone dislikes them - and I'd love to hear ideas. Maybe even staff eyerolling when someone throws up what looks like a non-thematic gambit might be a place to start, or the weightings - but whereas the system might evolve, I think it's here to stay.

[Delphine]

As for gambits - I like them. For the first time, we have a bloodless way to remove GLs. And maybe they need some tweaking to protect thematic players from being booted for silly reasons simply because someone dislikes them - and I'd love to hear ideas. Maybe even staff eyerolling when someone throws up what looks like a non-thematic gambit might be a place to start, or the weightings - but whereas the system might evolve, I think it's here to stay.

This is really the main point of this whole thread for me. Feelings on theme and policing theme aside, only staff members can approve gambits. So, if a non-thematic gambit or a gambit that has been made for "silly reasons" is approved and put into play, there's little we as players can do about it other than vote against it. I don't have a problem with gambits myself, but just because someone proposes a gambit doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be approved. So let people propose as many gambits as they want, if you ask me! Staff has final say either way. And "help gambit" is quite thorough on explaining that a gambit can be rejected and on what grounds it will be rejected

[Starstarfish]

Gambits that aren't seen as thematic likely shouldn't be approved. And if one slips through and is approved, the solution might be a mulligan of some kind and calling it off. But in this case - there's now an active running Gambit that has arguably IC consequences for folks being discussed and mulled over through various OOC channels when it's still going and it's sort of awkward. Or least it is for me.