Death XP and New Players

[quanin]

As one of those older players, I disagree. My first character on TI I didn't even know which skill(s) I'd possibly need, much less what else I could spend XP on. I remember seeing the 50k XP just for signing up and actually asking myself if I'd inadvertently tripped something. If assets had existed then, I'd have probably been all over it if for no other reason than the only certainty when I created was I'd probably need money, even if I found the magical perfect TI skill combination. Again, I knew nothing beyond theme basics at that point, and actually I think ended up being tossed in chargen once or twice because I discovered with the help of some very generous players at the time that perhaps the exact concept I was going for could use some modification. Were it not for that, I'd have probably ended up with a bunch of skills I never used and no way to make money beyond the weekly class income.

[Voxumo]

You know, I can't really say I have much more opinion on this topic. I'm very much in favor of players who stick around benefit from the knowledge they gain.

Though perhaps the reason I'm in this camp is because when I first joined, it was made rather clear to me through visnet, ooc and other manners that odds are your first character is going die and not amount to much, but that I'll benefit more from that first characters death as I'll be able to start my next character with the knowledge I learned. Mind you, this was during a time on TI when character deaths happened way more frequently, and it wasn't just mages killing.

And that advice, while hard to swallow at the time, did ultimately prove true. Your very first character, well you shouldn't have high expectations for it.

[Starstarfish]

Circumstances being what they are however, sometimes that first or second character does prove to be important to the game just by the nature of when they joined and what is going on. Even if you do not have that expectation, it is what happens. Case in point, I joined TI in November, by February on only my second character, I became the GI simply given IC circumstances. So, it happens, and with what's become our pattern of turn over in GL spots, I can see it happening again.

So I'd say sometimes the issue is less what new players can or cannot do in chargen or how much RPXP one gets to begin with, as much as it is the odd separation on many games where rather than investing into a present character and continuing stories and storylines that enrich and build the IC world ...

You are actively encouraged to imagine that this character now is not as good as the next one can be. You might be broke now but your next one can be rich. You might be weak and small and untalented, but if you struggle enough, the struggles of this character will make some other character worth more. And I'd argue that leads to a type of fatalism that encourages PK and death or liquidation rather than longer term story arcs because of the idea that you simply cannot manage to get as far now as your next character can start with.

I think if we want to encourage long-term stories and development we need to encourage the thought of characters that stick around as much as the people who play them.

[Geras]

I think Star just won the thread. For me at least.

[DeadHandsome]

Personally, as a brand new player to TI I haven't noticed any problem whatsoever with the amount of XP that I received at the start. In fact, the concept I'm running with is so long haul that even the concept of having to do my NEXT character as someone who potentially is jaw droppingly important to the plot as a whole scares the crap out of me. You old guys should put a little faith in the new players. Not everyone wants to RP Dav's long lost heir and is also a Mage. I just play to be immersed in the awesome world y'all have created.

That's my two cents.

[Kinaed]

I <3 DeadHandsome, and not just because of the name.

Honestly, I come from the side of things that wants to put a good story over making characters people are hugely invested in. I like some investment, of course, but I'm definitely not designing with the intent to support !PK or !death. That's simply the preference of some players.

Bluntly, stories aren't better because they're really long. In fact, at the stage characters start to feel stagnant, I prefer players wrap up their character for the next adventure. We don't enforce that, but it is much better for everyone and the game as a whole not to have someone sitting in a role they're not enthusiastic about for a year simply because they don't know when or how to let go.

[Starstarfish]

I have great faith in new people, that was overall my intended point at least, that new folks can do great things whatever those "great things" end up meaning to them. And sometimes, it's the greatest thrust upon you idea or something like that.

[chronodbu]

I absolutely agree that older players should be rewarded for the time spent into gaining their death xp, and new players should have to work for that too.

However, there is an interesting conundrum that I've come to realize by some comments throughout this thread -

As the pbase gets older and older, there's going to be a bit more XP bloat now due to there not being any real XP sinks since the removal of purchase silver.

Maybe some ideas for new XP sinks might be a good thing? Mind you, I'm not a fan of the idea of making appearance costs higher. That's already fairly high. What I'd like to see are ideas for new things.