Blackballing

[Geras]

Ok, well I think everyone should just chill out and that the policy doesn't need revising then. :3 <3

[LonelyNeptune]

I'm with Geras on this, I've mostly stayed out because I struggled to understand the link between these events and blackballing. Upon reading the helpfile, I've realised that TI has its own 'homebrew' definition of blackballing which is 'saying bad things about people'. That's incorrect, as blackballing is more along the lines of 'secretly excluding someone from a club or activity'.

Example:
Players A, B and C refuse to sponsor Player D into a guild because Player A doesn't like Player D OOCly.

While it's worthwhile to revise the helpfile on blackballing to reduce confusion, I think that it's unrelated to the events that lead to this discussion. Much of the comments made on Reddit are just negative feedback. The TMC review had some pretty nasty insults, but it isn't actually blackballing. It feels like we're barking up the wrong tree here.

[Voxumo]

So TMC and Reddit aside, it seems like some agree that the blackballing helpfile could use some updating? So perhaps we should talk about what can be done to make it more understandable/less confusing?

I particularly like the idea of more examples being added, both of TI's version of blackballing and what isn't said version.

[Niamh]

I wasn't really wanting to jump in here, but figure as our unofficial forum-nazi (x_x) it's probably time to give keeping it on track the old college try.

For what it's worth, Staff have a policy of rewarding people with QP for their reviews, negative or positive-- saying negative things about TI can be extremely constructive. It's much harder to reward the negative reviews because the folks who put them up aren't likely to admit who they are, but it's been done each time they do. Naturally, the guy who said he'd prefer TPB Kinaed had a stroke and spent the rest of her life finger-painting hasn't come forward and probably never will. All else aside, I really can't foresee a future where it is made against the rules to criticize TI. Please don't be worried about that or feel it's necessary to debate the (in)validity of it-- it's not going to happen.

Kinaed's original post isn't advocating for punishing people for making negative off-site comments about TI. What it is is an attempt to tap input from the playerbase on whether or not the personal attacks made should be addressed, period, and if so, how? IS it blackballing? Is it not? If it is, should it be looked at in-game? Is the fact that it's off-site a significant factor? The post doesn't advocate any one answer, but taps for input because she simply doesn't know what the answer is. I don't either, though I do have opinions.

I find the statements about named individuals, of which there were 3 or so(?), flatly inexcusable, but that probably goes without saying for most of us. I used to read reviews like those on MU*s I was interested in, and my thought was always "Christ I'm glad they don't play on my MUSH," not "the target of that abuse must be terrible!". As somebody else said before, taking it that down that route says more about the poster than the target. When people come out of the woodwork to defend a game, though, it looks rabid and arouses more brow-raising rather than less. The only real solution I'm aware of is to leave it alone, absorb whatever valid points could have been made between the unpleasantness, and move on.

I'm in agreement with those who have said that every MUD ever has bad reviews, dissatisfied players, and comments that cross the line between constructive and abusive. For better or worse, that's part of the genre's nature.

To that end and others outlined above, I'm in the camp that a response to anything off-site is unnecessary and unrecommended. It's pretty easy, at least for me, to identify who is who, but it doesn't really matter. My personal opinion of that individual certainly changes based on how truthful or disingenuous they were, but their reception on TI shouldn't change because of that. We (and by "we" I mean us as a collective community) ought to be content to be the bigger person. I think Rothgar hit the nail on the head with the trolling comparison. What they're doing might not be trolling, per se, but it comes with the same set of social rules. Feeding it never turns out well.

Peripherally, I've seen another RPI begin pursuing insults and aggression directed at them off-site, and it was (and continues to be) very bad for them. Without any experience with that game, its Staff, or its playerbase, I can say I would never set foot there, and I think it's solely because of the line that was crossed by taking game policy off-game-- it's an emotional reaction on my end, but it strikes me as way invasive for a MU*.

I fully understand the instinct to remove assholes from your house (hitting on something somebody said earlier - I think DeadHandsome!), but I tend to see it this way: If Bill was standing in my house insulting me and my decor I'd kick him out, but if I heard through the grapevine he said something along those lines I couldn't, because he's not there for me to kick.

/Niamh essay

[Taunya]

Well said, Niamh.

[The_Last_Good_Dragon]

I think they correlate to blackballing given how so many of the replies focus on one particular staff member so negatively, and with such choice words or phrases.

Staff members are a feature of the game, the head admin chief amongst that. If I saw a Review or a comment calling out specific players this might be a different discussion, but that's not the case. I think the better thing to do would be to hold an honest and open discussion about why Reviews have generally taken a bad turn, but I've become pretty skeptical that such criticisms will ever be given any kind of merit, which is a bit fatiguing.

[Geras]

I think the better thing to do would be to hold an honest and open discussion about why Reviews have generally taken a bad turn, but I've become pretty skeptical that such criticisms will ever be given any kind of merit, which is a bit fatiguing.

Give it time. I know you have good reason to feel down on this and have a legitimate beef, but give it time.

[Zeita]

I would say that recent postings such as the TMC review that wished a stroke (seriously? WTF?) on Kinaed and the original unedited Reddit thread are cases of blackballing. Not to mention some of what I've seen in this thread. Even if they're not because someone wants to play somantics, they're bullying and bullying needs to be called out.

Bottom line. If you couch whatever argument you're trying to make in hate, insults and bile and then ask why you're not being acknowledged... you need to take a critical look at your persuasion skills.

To Niamh's post and analogy- you can't kick Bill out, but you're certainly not going to be welcoming him to your home again in the future.

[Niamh]

I think we've covered a good spread of viewpoints here and there's a lot to think about. Going to lock the thread, thank you guys!