PSA: Why not to play a villain on TI:Legacy

[vaxin]

I've played a lot of villains on TI:Legacy and I want to write a short guide for those of you who might also be inclined to create RP for Orderites or Reeves. I advise a simple step.

Don't.

There are several reasons for this:

1) Policy

If you play an antagonistic character, expect to have policy brought against you every couple of days, regardless of what actions you do. Budget at least two hours a week writing notes to Kinaed, and make sure that you have a logger enabled.

(Section omitted, accusing other players of cheating)

2) The Stranglehold of Law and Order

Expect staff to come up with creative and inventive ways of making it easier for lawful characters to catch anybody who attempts any villainous action while refusing to add tools to crime.

How long have steal and hide/sneak been broken? At least since I started playing in 2014. In the meantime, public reporting makes it impossible to even attempt theft.

Magecraft items have been removed. People have been told that new recipes will replace them for at least six months. Nothing. Meanwhile, it took staff about two weeks to implement mage ash and remove spells.

How long have poisons and Temijul been useless? Years. But at least we're getting new combat techniques that will unbalance an already broken system.

3) RP is strictly optional in catching you

The Exile command now makes it possible for lawful characters to simply excise characters that break the law, without any RP or interaction. I thought that the forum post might modulate the implementation, but nope. I play Dvi. He was placed in an OOC room, where one can either liquidate or pay a 25 QP tax to get back onto grid. It doesn't matter that there was no RP surrounding the use of the command. (Section omitted, too much detail about ongoing RP situation/semi-name-drop)

I decided to liquidate Dvi and give up playing villains. Hopefully, this will help keep you from making the same mistakes that I have.

[chronodbu]

Can't say I blame you.

Hope you go back to trying again.

(Edited out some overly confrontational/hostile language -Niamh)

[Niamh]

Edit: Tentatively unlocked with some moderation of the posts above me. I get that this is a contentious topic, but lets be extremely, over the top careful not to make it personal or about specific players or situations (especially not if they pertain to ongoing RP).

[Taunya]

Villains often do get the short end of the stick. I agree they should get a little more love, as without them to drive conflict things would be rather dull.

1) That's a fair warning, and it's good policy to log everything regardless.

2) While I wouldn't say new tools for crime-people are being refused, I agree it's not getting the priority it should. Hide and sneak are very hard to use, needing extensive OOC knowledge on what will or won't break your cover, many of them without even you knowing that it's revealed you. Simply hiding in a room with a single other person reveals you to be there OOCly, I've had several people immediately do a search simply because their rpxp meter shows that they're not alone. I've taken to going AFK before people enter when I hide just to prevent that, giving up any rpxp for when I'm snooping. The whole system likely needs to be re-done, and I know there's plans for it, but I've not heard any word of progress on it.

3) I'll just re-iterate that I'm not too happy with exile as it was implemented, and think it should require capture and carting off. The IC note as it was written isn't even feasible: 3 days to leave the kingdom, when it takes more than 3 days to even reach the border of the closest duchy by horse.

[centersfocus]

Ok.. So.. I'd like to speak up for the other side of this. I'm Zolin's player.

Keeping this general only, instead of RP specific. Please bear with me.

1) When law metric/piety metric is low, there is no crime reported. (Omitted, reveal of IC information) Unless a reeve/knight is on when a thing happens, the 'bad guy' tends to get away.

2) This I've seen leads to quiet time when active players who stand a chance are on. (Omitted, accusing other player of cheating)

3) (Omitted, commentary on current RP)

So I love contention RP. (Omitted, revealing IC information) I love facing off with people and if they get away? Part of the story.

(Omitted, commentary on current RP)

Before we say 'oh the bad guy can never win', I would like to point out, it's actually really tough playing a Reeve right now. (Omitted, reveal of IC information)

Now, how to fix this? I really don't know. I have a couple of theories, but nothing solid enough I would offer as a suggestion.

Thanks for reading.

[Voxumo]

(OP comment omitted for IC info reveal).

Good, that's how it should be. You shouldn't be dealing with magic. Thematically that is the Order's job. (Omitted, a commentary on current RP). We've had major IC conflicts about this very topic in the past. Secular and Religion are separated for a reason.

This situation sets a very dangerous precedent, and I would not blame anyone who decides to play a villain to no longer wish to. The lawful group have been handed the holy hand grenade of tools, except they have multiple of this grenade and it is very cheap to make. 25 IP is a ridiculously cheap cost. Such a command should really be 60 to 100 ip and should be limited to a certain number of uses per Seneschal.

But I digress. I am not looking forward to the future of conflict on this game when one side has a nuke, and the other doesn't.

I apologize if I'm coming off hostile, I just am blown away by recent events, and never imagined this game would get to such a point.

[Taunya]

Ideally the knights should be handling mage problems, which is why reeves don't have special tools to fight them.

The problem comes when there aren't enough knights around to handle a warranted mage. Same comes when there aren't enough reeves to handle a warranted secular villain. I think labelling a long-standing warranted villain as a persona non grata, without removing them from grid, could be a good solution. Basically allowing any and all to hunt them, maybe even with a nice bounty. Unless there's Knight/Reeve support from it to open it up to everyone though, it should be a number of OOC weeks before it gets to the point the usual modus operandi of knights hunting mages and reeves hunting criminals is overruled.

[Voxumo]

Ideally the knights should be handling mage problems, which is why reeves don't have special tools to fight them.
The problem comes when there aren't enough knights around to handle a warranted mage. Same comes when there aren't enough reeves to handle a warranted secular villain. I think labelling a long-standing warranted villain as a persona non grata, without removing them from grid, could be a good solution. Basically allowing any and all to hunt them, maybe even with a nice bounty. Unless there's Knight/Reeve support from it to open it up to everyone though, it should be a number of OOC weeks before it gets to the point the usual modus operandi of knights hunting mages and reeves hunting criminals is overruled.

I can't really agree with a mage ever being able to be hunted freely, as that goes against everything the order teaches, it goes against the very reason we have the pyre. To kill a mage through any other means is often seen as a sin itself, if not heresy at the discretion of some GI's.

Sure non-magical criminals it makes sense, but when that magic aspect comes into play, it becomes very delicate grounds.

Also I can't agree to the idea that just because there isn't enough reeves or knights to deal with a wanted individual that it should be free game... If the knights or reeves know they don't have the manpower to handle a target on their own, they ideally shouldn't go after that target in the first place, and if they do and their plan fails. Well they knew the risk.

[Kuzco]

Regarding the exile command: nobody is satisfied with it. I propose to change it to 'all legal guilds turn hostile against you' instead. Reeves and Knights attack on sight, merchants blacklist you, troubadours report you if you enter a tavern. Removing agency from the player by banishing the character from grid is a big no-no to me. I would feel very upset if it happened to me.

Crime: it's a tough call. On some regards, it's very hard to succeed as a villain, on some, it's laughably easy, for IC and OOC reasons. RPA tends to favor reeves, meta tends to favor criminals. Code seems to screw both, as stated by POFs Dvi and Zolin.

[Taunya]

I think it can come down to the needs of the many outweigh the souls of the few.
While the order would like to save every soul, I don't think they'd insist every single mage needs to be put to they pyre when they're a serious threat that may be hard to deal with by usual means. And I doubt knights and soliders at the front bother capturing every Daravi mage they face in skirmishes so they can properly pyre them- if they're slinging fire, they're going to get filled with arrows and pikes if they're not careful.