Bad Guy Incentives

[Kinaed]

So, we want more bad guys in game, huh?

I'm thinking about things we can do to encourage villains. One thing that comes to mind is waiving death XP, which was raised. Given that we're now back to LBU and have capped skills, I think this may not be as dangerous as previously. This said, I'm a bit leery.

Also, I'd like to see some immediate, in-game rewords. QP comes to mind here, but I'm wondering how or if we could do better.

But let's think outside the box - what else could we do that people would like?

Also, what should we do to draw the line around 'you're a good villain, here's a benefit/reward' and the rest of the average Joes?

I'm thinking perhaps a weekly vote for best villain and offering QP up to whomever players vote for, for example.

Anyway, my ponderings really haven't gotten me very far, so I'd love to hear more player input. Thanks!

[Kinaed]

A bit more fleshed out:

Once a week, a player can give one other player a villain point (for free, costs nothing) with a recorded reason as to why they think the player in question is a villain.

Upon death, villain points would convert to QP, and if a player has collected enough, death XP would be waived.

Thoughts?

[Geras]

IMHO:

Adding a bit of this:


To what's normally this:


(both hot linked)

[Geras]

Couldn't resist posting that first one once I found it lol...

[Temi]

A bit more fleshed out:

Once a week, a player can give one other player a villain point (for free, costs nothing) with a recorded reason as to why they think the player in question is a villain.

Upon death, villain points would convert to QP, and if a player has collected enough, death XP would be waived.

Thoughts?

What about an option to nominate it to the staff? 'nominate staff whoever killed Joe and made him fall from the sky into Church Square, because that was just epic!'

[Geras]

To be quite frank, as much as some QP or XP here or there would be appreciated, I think the only incentive to play a bad guy that's going to work in the long run is making it fun to be bad.

[Jei]

Seriously are we doing this? And the good guys have it good? By your own admission, Kinaed, a combat+mage character not only is on a level playing field with a plain knight/reeve/whatever, but actually has an edge because they have magic. We now have to shower them with QP and extra XP as well?

Dude. These people can screw with you from afar as much as they want, they can walk about nigh invulnerable messing with people. They can indirectly attack people through using zombies. They can influence people's thoughts.

Right now, combat is more or less equal to people who want to invest the time and effort to make their character's strong. And frankly it doesn't take that long to get up to a very high level of combat, even when it ICly doesn't make sense for that person to do so. Encouraging more villains, giving them more perks... what the heck do the good guys get? We work just as hard to become strong and we have pretty distinct limits, especially with new combat. Where's our holy powers of smiting? Where is our waiving of death xp when we die upholding the theme of the game by BEING good guys? I never in my life have seen a Cardinal, GI, etc. throw a witch fit for being killed by mages, nor any Knights. And frankly, being an Orderite or a Knight really isn't all that fun, I have to say.

This is the Inquisition: Legacy, this is not Inquisition: Final Days, uprising, etc. Remi was a very dangerous mage as he was and he didn't need any special perks or anything like that. I just don't understand why lately it seems like the staff is coddling the bad guys when they have exactly the same opportunities in combat as not. You don't -need- a skill to have a profession. Be a barkeep. Be a fricken street sweeper. Pretend you're a bum. You've then got just as many learn master slots as the rest of us to use for combat AND magic. Also, with mattack coming in, you probably won't even need to waste a slot on a weapon.

I mean, seriously? It's like Kinaed said in either this thread or another, it's been bitched about for as long as TI has existed and it's really, really old. On this incarnation in particular there is rampant potential for a level playing field. The bad guys don't need more incentives.

[wimple]

There's nothing they can do about making it fun to be bad (or good, for that matter). There are lots of options available; it's up to people to take them. Being bad is 'fun while it lasts' - that isn't going to change. If that's not fun enough for people, they should probably choose a different character concept. Same thing goes with Knights and Orderites.

I have to agree with Jei, though. Between theme heros or whatever was discussed previously and points for baddies, it sounds like we're coming up ways to just give just about anyone except some pretty lazy players extra perks.

If you want to encourage creative RP, instead of giving individual perks, why not just do a write up on the IC board of a rumor dealing with someone championing theme (good or bad) once a week or so? If it has to be something tangible, then throw them some temp extra influence. Nothing people can get upset over (really), but nice recognition, and it applies to good and bad characters.

[Kinaed]

The thing about being a villain, in my eyes, is that it's not about being a mage. Just seeking thieves doesn't bring the game joy and conflict. It's more about playing antagonists - which as Wimple rightly pointed out, means they're not lazy. When other people are. Doesn't that deserve some recognition? When it comes to "villains" biting the dust though, the fact is that the game is built to be *out to get them*.

If we point perks out for players who are not lazy, and make them be rewarded in a manner suitable to enhance or dull the almost inevitable experience of death, then I don't see a problem. I agree it'd be a problem if players were getting villain points to boost their villain char into craziness, but onto the account after death? Not so much because...

Jei, the way you post seems to resent that players exist who choose to play bad guys. I hope you understand that people choosing to play these roles in and of themselves aren't bad OOCly or doing something wrong, and giving the OOC player a kickback isn't the same as giving their bad character a kickback - this scheme in particular is about crediting the player for good play after a death.

I don't see any reason that characters like Jei wouldn't be awarded a villain point from time to time as equally as players like Remi, honestly. They bring conflict and stir things up, and that's about playing an antagonist - not about playing a mage, heretic or criminal. However - if we want to get snotty, I suppose we could award 'hero' points (that act the same way as villain points) to players who successfully arrest villains, based on the number of villain points the char has. Or something. I'm not really eager to code it to PK though. And maybe code villain points to pop up just for doing things like kidnapping someone with a lot of hero points. I dunno.

Anyway, I'm open to other suggestions, but I do believe that awarding players for creating good RP in the style we want to see more of is just... appropriate.

[Jei]

For the record, I don't resent, OOCly, people who play bad guys. I do resent the notion that we need to go above and beyond to reward them for choosing a certain player concept. There aren't just 'good' and 'bad' people on this game, there are a lot of in betweens and honestly, I wouldn't want a villain point or a hero point or whatever. If people are genuinely impressed by how someone is playing.. that's a perfectly great way to spend your QP isn't it? If the person is unknown, because they are a villain, how about just allowing people to request 'the person who did whatever should get x amount of my qp because of x reason'?

I just don't understand why we need to offer such great rewards when bad guys already could have an edge if they put time, effort and planning into it.. and yeah, maybe have a little luck too. Unfortunately, sometimes they get outed before their plans come to fruition, it happens. =/