New Player Survey pt. 2

[Julea]

A few thoughts on this discussion:

As someone who plays a Noble, my character does expect everyone in the room to immediately jump up in curtsy the moment my character walks in the room. I do not know of any noble character that expects this and most tend to lean more the other way. My character does expect people who interact directly with her, to curtsy and exhibit appropriate mannerisms. It doesn't always happen. And she deals with that as needed depending on circumstances.

I have no issue with someone who has to go urgently, osaying they need to go. I do it myself and I'm a noble. I rarely leave a scene without allowing for responses (unless ooc circumstances get in the way), so really it just comes down to RP courtesy and etiquette. If someone is just moving through, again I do not expect them to stop, and emote or ask permission to leave. If someone isn't directly interacting with my noble, I do not expect them to ask permission to leave. I think most people are in agreement on this.

I would expect people to take into consideration things like what they're doing, where they are, the setting, vNPCs, what way they're facing and respond as appropriate. So it might not be immediately and that's fine. It makes for good roleplay to be suddenly blushing and belatedly noticing a noble joining the conversation because you're engrossed in your book or drinking a beer. That adds to the roleplay, and creates some variation.

NPCs and vNPCs are great. They can be used in many ways to enhance roleplay and create a setting. I love it when I see other players giving them some personality and including them in their emotes regarding their setting. I don't expect, nor do I think anyone does, for people to Roleplay solely with NPC/vNPC. PCs are of course, the meat of the roleplay. Our focus, but lots of things add to this. Clothing, the room descriptions, etc. All enhance our roleplay.

Obviously some help files speak of IC rules, and some help files speak of OOC rules. For example, the laws of the realm speak of things like murder being illegal, as is stealing, belonging to the brotherhood etc. The Nobility courtesies are similar, they're obviously IC. You are welcome to break them, just like you are welcome to break rules regarding the law. And just like murdering someone, there might be consequences for doing this. Or there might not be, depending on how it is done.

[Unwashed]

So I'm a also new player. Thought I would hijack this tread with my new player impressions.

I was referred here by some friends who do a lot more role play intensive MUDding than I do, and I've always been a bit "meh" about RPI muds. My background is table top and zero to medium RP muds.

The Good:

The staff. Wow. The friendliest and most downright helpful admin staff I've seen in a MUD.

The players. Everyone is helpful. No ego and (ooc) drama so far!

The setting. More interesting than most, especially in the wake of the Game of Thrones series. It seems to have that same sort of vibe, which is wonderful, in my opinion.

It's a sandbox world. You definitely get the feeling that you can point your character any direction within the rules.

The Bad:

It's not a "game" world (it's a sandbox). I didn't see many "hooks" at character creation that made me think, "Wow, I really need to be a Reeve." Or, "Wow, I really want to explore the mysteries of X." Or, "Hmm, my character just has to be X so I can do Y." You can have big dreams, sure, but you're told right off the bat what you can't do: that you can't be Nobility, and that being a mage or thief will result in bad things (permadeath). Class being what it is, in-game, means your character is necessarily stunted in that progression. Permadeath being what it is, I'm not likely to go roaming or exploring. Even if I did, it wouldn't accomplish much because character advancement is strictly through emotes. Clear avenues of character progression would be helpful for me.

Once I entered the world, I am roleplaying, by and large, mundane activities of daily life. Fair enough, but I should probably be doing mundane activities of real life instead of MUDding. I could have a beer with my non-text friends, gossip, and be snarky. What I can't do, though, is be a shadowy crimelord, cast spells, run through witches, or conspire to take the throne. These things are the kind of experiences I look for in a fantasy world. I'd say most people do, otherwise the fantasy setting is superfluous.

I'd agree with previous comments about social class interaction. I'm afraid it adds more complexity than it adds fun. Not knowing how to walk or talk could be a fun roleplay, but in practice it's just probably just a frustration. It certainly looks daunting from the help files (sumptuary, courtesy). As was said before, these are OOC expectations as well as IC. You don't want to be the player who screws them up all the time (unless that is clearly your rp). You don't want to walk out of chargen with your clothes "all wrong" for your rp.


The Ugly:

Help mudsex is a bewildering and contradictory file that is part of the new player tutorial. I'm not sure why anyone would want to read all that in chargen.



Overall this is a well-produced roleplay intensive MUD with great people. The code is more polished than other RPI's I've dabbled in. It's possible that RPI just isn't for me, but I do think the game could use some clearer avenues of character advancement, even though the main goal is obviously roleplay. Roleplay and character advancement going hand-in-hand is an intoxicating combination.

[Kinaed]

I was going to get around to new player impressions, but there's been such a huge influx of them that I haven't really gotten on the ball to ask.

I think you can, as a player, do any of the things that you suggested - the crux, I think, is teaching new players how to go about overthrowing the government, playing a badass mage, etc. If you're RPing about drinking a tavern and nothing more, that'd be (in my view) because you don't really know how these things are done on TI or how to advance those plots. Unfortunately, whereas the older players do, I'm not entirely sure it's easy for us to articulate, so I'll have to think on how to inject this information in game - because I think you're right, players who are new are going to want to know how to get to the juicy RP.

Thank you so much for providing the feedback!

[beatrix]

Hello! Like Unwashed, I am (for all intents and purposes) a new player. I've been jotting down my thoughts as they pop into my head, so forgive me if this post rambles on a bit. I mostly share Unwashed's opinions on the game, but let me write out my opinion anyway. (The quotes are not actual quotes; I just couldn't find a spoiler tag.)

Good Things:

* The staff! You guys are /awesome/. This is by and far the best staffed game I have ever seen or played.

* The players! I played an RPI mud before, which does tend to attract more mature and polite players, but prior to that I came from a PK universe... anyone who understands the grief of that should know where I'm coming from :)

* The lore! It's a rich universe. You can do a lot of things with it.

* Visnet and Aides! Even when the staff is AFK you can usually get questions answered :)

* The QP system! This is an excellent way of making new players feel welcome.

* The travel command! This is a very nice way of getting around.

Things That Could Use a Little Improvement:

* Jumping into the game. Like Unwashed, I have been having a little bit of trouble finding the meat of the game-- I will get into that in another section.

* The size of the world. It is my understanding that this is undergoing renovation, so I will not be too harsh with my complaints here. Things I hope are being taken into consideration about this are, however:
** Making it smaller overall-- having a big world is nice, until you take into account stamina drain and how difficult it can be to find other players to RP with. I understand mounts help with this, but they are difficult to afford as a new player.
** Until I found out about the travel command, getting around the city was a headache. It is difficult to rely on the in-game map because it is somewhat difficult to read. Organizing the ASCII map's legend by types of places (shops, pubs, gathering spots, etc.) or color coding would help quite a bit.
** Putting in landmarks or extended routes, or a help file, for the most-traveled room names. Church Square, the ore outpost, entrances to outdoor villages, the bank, etc.

* Stat allocation in character creation. The most frustrating thing about this is: as a new player, you have probably written your descriptions, selected your class and all these things, read a great many help files, and you've gotten to the skill allocation stage... where you realize that you didn't put enough points in x, y, and z. Making this editable in character creation without needing to reroll completely would save a lot of new players a headache.
** Alternatively, putting the stats needed for specific skills in HELP STATS would also work.

* Crafting. It is not very intuitive. For the first few days I was in the game, I kept trying to type 'work x' assuming it would help me get an IC job. Things that would help:
** Putting the skill syntax in SKILLS <x>
** Being able to look at your crafts list outside the workroom. If I'm in the forest hunting for leather and want to see what crafts I can make with rawhide, I don't want to have to trek all the way back to the University Sewing Room to do that. An alternative command, adjustment of <CRAFT> INSPECT or just being able to look at the list up to the point of wearloc would help.
** On that count, it's not intuitive to find where to go to work your materials. Putting them on the in-game map or in skill help files (or in SKILLS <x> alongside the commands would help quite a bit.)

* The influence and rumor systems.
** I have been actively purchasing rumors, which is an interesting but extremely expensive hobby. Yes, I am aware you can have troubadours tell them to you for free, but what troubadour wants to spread bad press about themselves? Half the list is is about them. Besides, they're not always easy to find.
** I still have no idea what makes a rumor vapid or enduring. Adding an explanation to the help file would be great.
** What do you get paid IP for? Starting new rumors, or promoting/quashing existing ones?

Suggestions for Flavor:

* Alternative default outfits. Restringing can take a long time and require looking up a lot of help files and even send people off the game to their internet browser. It would be great if you could turn your current Lithmorran freeman outfit in for a default Vavardi gentry outfit.

* Taking a look at noquit for hunting animals. As a character who works leather, my noquit is over 3 hours for 12 skins. I understand if by code this is a problem, but not being able to quit out because you were hunting non-sentient mobs that no one is going to come after you for is... well, it does not make much sense to me.

* Knowing who the ruling nobility is. Maybe I wouldn't know them by sight, but at the very least, even if I am from a backwater place, I should know the names of the king, queen, and crown prince/princess, right?

* Free rumors. Things that might be found in IC newsposts, like 'the king is dead' or 'damned mages attacked x recently', that it is expected everyone would know-- those would be great to have in the rumor system.

And finally:

Jumping Into the Game as a New Player:

Before I continue, allow me to say that I have indeed read this and I think it was a little on the general side. I'm going to post my concerns here so as to not clog the thread that's reference material.

If you are a new player who has no experience with this type of MUD-- which is to say, a character-driven game where the power is in /your/ hands rather than the admin's-- it is completely overwhelming.

Things that will put the new player at a disadvantage:

* Not having a specific character in mind.
* Or, not having enough character traits in mind.
* Seeking an inactive guild.
* Or, seeking a guild that is has an insulated-enough social circle where it is difficult to come in as a new player.
* Not knowing how to rock the boat, or save the boat when it's rocked.
* Not knowing when the boat is rocked at all.

Well, you might say to that, "There's only so much the other players or admin can do for you as a new player. We can't write a whole character for you, after all." But what does the new player do, then, to make him or herself interesting?

People play RPIs to feel like they are part of a compelling story. RPing out drinking in a tavern is /not/ interesting, as Unwashed says. The best way to force an undeveloped character to develop is to put them in a situation that requires, well, development. I think this is where new players like Unwashed and I run into some trouble.

I have no problem playing an uppity merchant-wannabe orphan girl who has a tendency to run her mouth. (In case this was not obvious, I play Beatrix.) I think she's fun to play. I have had some /excellent/ RP scenes, some where I really got a chance to shine, some where I didn't do so well, but I think I can say that she is a character who is getting some development. However, this development is mostly mundane. There is little sense of being connected to a greater plot, despite having had the chance to be involved in one.

I don't want to get too specific on the things that have happened in game recently, but how do you go from a mostly vapid character to a great one? How do you become a character who drives a plot?

As someone who plays a character who can only be counted as a minor character at best, I feel seeing examples and getting into the thought process of someone who plays a true hero or villain or just an all-around interesting character will be better able to answer this.

Questions:

* How good code-wise does your character need to be?

For example: If you want to play a badass mage, how high in your skills do you need to be prepared to go? Looking at this thread would imply you not only need good magic skills but also good martial fighting skills and stats if you want to successfully defend yourself.

For another example: If you want to be a legendary knight, besides picking the right skills to begin with, are you going to suffer if you don't boost your stats to a certain point? This has to be a relativity question, but even so, there is probably a code advantage in, for example, dumping charisma in character creation.

*What are compelling protagonist qualities in this universe?

Plenty of people want to play the hero of the story. This type of character is probably most at risk for becoming (forgive me my tvtropes) a Mary Sue. But... this type of character also has great potential for driving the story.

It isn't enough to play the character. You have to go to the right places and build the right story. I'd guess joining the knights is the quickest way to victory here, but that doesn't account for atypical heroes. Tips, tricks, advice?

* What are compelling antagonist qualities?

It seems that if you want to play a good villain in the game, you need to tread much more softly than someone who wants to play a good hero. This is perfectly reasonable, but it leaves newbies who want to antagonize others stranded until much later. A story with no villains is uninteresting, though, so where are they to be found?

The serial killer thing seems to have been done (to death? ha, ha, puns are the lowest form of humor, I know); after awhile, people must go 'oh, this again'. I heard about the giant mage flood IC, but the effects seem almost gone and only one person ever mentioned it. There must be more.

* What is the skeleton of a good, all-encompassing, world storyline?

Are they admin-driven? How are they written? How do you go about getting a major event set up?

I think saying very general things like 'join a guild' is great, but it's also intuitive. It doesn't cross the gap between following the newbie steps and getting my newbie to an interesting character in itself.

So what I suppose is the question is: How do I, the newbie, make myself compelling enough for RP to come to me, and/or make compelling RP, in this universe?

I know that this game has a lot more to it than what I'm seeing. I just want to know how to get there. :)

Edit: wow, this was really a lot longer than I thought it was. Sorry for the wall of text. :|

[Geras]

I think there's a lot of really good points in Beatrix's post, and I wonder if an admin could maybe break some of the separate points into their own threads?

Beatrix - If you're interested in making a "baddie" or a "goodie" you're welcome to send me (Geras or Edwynn) a tell in-game. I'm no expert per se, but I've played both sides of that fence a fair amount and I'm more than willing to give advice.

[Talya]

I'm no game designer, but I had similar problems with stat assignments and have been thinking about it ever since. There are two suggestions I have, actually, One is much easier than the other, but both have a different purpose.

(1) Many skills seem to have requirements that are unreasonably high. The average person should be able to learn most skills (Average being 50-55). It doesn't take exceptional natural talent to learn carpentry, or herbalism, etc. There's a few cases it makes sense, but it most cases, i think a skill should not require the exceptionally good (60+) that it currently requires. There's already a cap on the number of skills you can master that prevents becoming too good at a wide variety of skills. Do they need to be restricted the way they are?
(That's a very minor difference, of course. a requirement of 50 or 55 is still something a person may miss when assigning their stats, and there's not a huge difference between 50 and 60, so "unreasonable" is subjective. Feel free to entirely disagree with me here. I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this.)

(2) What if the skills were put before the attributes in the character creation? The player picked the skills they wanted, and the requirements were already taken from the pool of 150 points given for attributes and when you got around to assigning them, you already had the requirements for your skills (and a correspondingly lower pool to raise the ones that were left)?

[Geras]

How about this - letting characters re-do their stats until they have gained say 10k of RPXP. You could get a warning when you're 90% to 10k as well.

Re-doing stats seems to be the most common issue new players have during creation and it would be nice to give some forgiveness here and a note during creation not worry and that things can be fixed later if they're wrong.

I don't know how doable this is but it would certainly be nice. I don't know about everyone else here, but I know my first char on TI did not turn out as expected. Mine was supposed to be a heretic cheese merchant who would donate has wealth to sheltering and protecting fugitive mages. He ended up a devout Davite knight. If you enter the game and realize once you've been immersed in the them that you want to do a U-turn like that, it would be nice to have more flexibility.

I wonder too if there's a concise way to present to new players a bit of info about what each guild does, and how to go about joining them. I know a lot of that information is floating out there somewhere, but will new players know where to find it all?

[beatrix]

Resetting your stats until 10k xp is already available. The problems are:

1) You have to return to character creation to do it
2) Resetting your stats causes you to reroll entirely, clearing your descs, outfit, and any coded in-game progress you have made

Stats being adjustable in-game until that point would be lovely, if that is what you meant.


As for finding out what guilds do what, I think for the most part, the 'standard' guilds are easy to find and understand. The murkier guilds can present a problem, specifically the mage guild. The Brotherhood's help file is much more straightforward than the other.

I had no idea what the Rubeus Manus did based on its help file until asking oocly after playing for quite awhile; it's not very specific, which is fine except that the documentation for newbie mages is very general.

(Cliff notes: You can't be a mage until someone awakens you and you'll have a hard time finding someone to do that. There are rumors you might awaken yourself under duress!-- as a 'how to' guide, it's not very specific.)

Does the second part mean you pay QP to awaken? Or is it a special event admin can do at their own discretion? Is the only way to deal with the guild? Does your character die if not awakened?

So... I guess the question is, is the Manus guild the only way to become a mage? It should probably be written in, if it is. To help people like me >.>

Also, random question, I started an alt awhile back with the intention to play her, but I've forgotten whether or not I selected latent. Is there any way to check?

[Giftherz]

On behalf of the Rubeus from one of their friends:
They will look into updating the helpfiles..

<3

[Anna]

The Rubeus will look into updating the helpfiles, I'm told.