Gentry and the Southside

[Starstarfish]

I'm clearly a biased party, so take what I say what with a grain of salt.

The GI position does at present give "de facto Gentry status" however as noted above - codedly it is not the same. It also does not confer the same coded benefits of being Gentry - like access to Gentry tier assets. I feel like a choice should be made there on how things like that are handled. Because there's at present a disconnect between the RP of people's status and some of the code and economics of the situation. And that's for anyone in a similar situation. A Freeman who becomes Earl Marshall, similarly is considered a Great Lord of the Realm during their tenure but they can only access Freeman assets.

Also, this whole mentality of "running rampant around Southside" isn't accurate. Not really sure where people are getting this idea.

Southside is still a lawless and dangerous place. One needn't expect every thug to think before acting, etc. etc.

True. The question is codedly is it also meant to be a place of heretics? IE - should they be coded to openly attack members of the Clergy? And that's not even the GI specifically. We have at present a Gentry Acolyte. We have had Gentry Priests. Should clerical status be respected in some capacity? And I wouldn't expect -every- thug to think before acting, however as code goes it's all or nothing with the lethal mobs. So they all will attack on sight or not, there's no like ... halfsies that I'm aware of. Unless there's different mobiles loaded who mix it up.

Perhaps their reaction could be based on the current Piety level?

At least that would mean IC work having a visible effect on that kind of thing. But "Good" and "Evil" and "Lawful" and "Unlawful" are two different scales. One can be Unlawful but still Pious, otherwise Piety and Lawfulness wouldn't be separate metrics, just like they are on a D & D alignment sheet.

[Andruid]

Dunno why you're so focused on the GI spot, but like stated above your post, there's more than likely IC reasons for it, and it should be handled IC'ly. If you want to have the rabble attack the GI on sight, well, there's IC ways to make that happen. You'll have to deal with the IC consequences of that.

If you want to see a code change solely for the GI's position concerning Gentry status, well, that's an entirely different conversation. I'd wager that no one has a problem with that, unless anyone is bothered about getting free Gentry status?

I'm "so focused" only in that I think coded gentry status should be conferred to ALL non-covert GLs. So if there's an exception being made for one, and if that exception affects things like access to Southside, then I don't really agree with it. I think the GI and the EM should have the same restrictions. That's it. I don't care about whatever happened ICly in the past, or what kind of patronyms people are using in the course of their play.

Otherwise, you're correct, I don't have a horse in the race.

[Andruid]

At least that would mean IC work having a visible effect on that kind of thing. But "Good" and "Evil" and "Lawful" and "Unlawful" are two different scales. One can be Unlawful but still Pious, otherwise Piety and Lawfulness wouldn't be separate metrics, just like they are on a D & D alignment sheet.

I get you, Starstar. It's not a very nuanced system. It's all-or-nothing, and that makes things difficult, especially since we have a lot of other code priorities. But, I've said my piece. Thanks for being chill about it.

[Starstarfish]

I'm "so focused" only in that I think coded gentry status should be conferred to ALL non-covert GLs. So if there's an exception being made for one, and if that exception affects things like access to Southside, then I don't really agree with it.

The easiest way to address that arguably/possibly would be to say that's the perk of being a Freeman who manages to get elected/chosen as a GL or 2GL - conferred Gentry status for life. You've managed to convince the entire kingdom in essence that you can act and hold yourself to Gentry standing to fill a very important role - why not imagine they simply just now see you that way?

Case in point the definition of Gentry from the website:

Gentry are those freemen who have amassed enough power to leverage themselves into the lifestyle of the nobility, though not the title. Frequently, nobles resent them, but are often forced to embrace them

Being elected means you've amassed that much power. And if we argue there's a minimum "power rating" to maintain that status then that's very sort of nebulous to define.
And given that being able to buy your way into being Gentry is now a thing on grid, maybe that's the easiest solution that does not require considerations in special cases based on PC backgrounds or whatnot. As the ability to buy your way into Gentry status via the Seneschal opens up the question of where that falls into the line of theme/Davism et al anyways kind of.

Thanks for being chill about it.

I try.

Granted all of that doesn't change as Kinaed other IC factors that might override things, but if that's a concern people have it would clear it up. And would remove the need for a concept of an "effective Gentry" idea. It would also remove the RP that someone can be a GL or 2GL and sometimes be treated/seen as still "just a Freeman."