I'm sure people are aware that Freemen characters earn more XP than nobles? They simply do. Freeman have a flat XP bonus that noble characters do not to encourage their play.
Eris, I'm sorry to say it, but I do disagree about having too many nobles not being a problem. The game is designed to have a lot of roles, and fundamentally, those roles need to be filled for the game to have variety. As the pbase is limited to perhaps 20 players OOC, this means that 20 nobles saps the rest of the game's roles. I've noticed this myself.
That is not saying that any individual playing a noble is doing something wrong, RPing poorly, or otherwise responsible for anyone's RP boredom. It's more of a widespread game dynamic based on the flawed design of the current system.
Another alternative might be to wipe out non-nobles completely and make a game where nobility isn't separated from those other roles - eg, if we moved away from Lithmore City and into expanding the palance, then made every player who logged in a noble of some sort or a high ranking religious official, or both. I think this is the premise of Burning Post? It was also the premise of a much beloved MUSH, Outremer, that Khaba and I used to play. The thing is, such a shift would be so far from TI as we know it, that I think our much beloved game would truly be a memory. In short, there'd have to be a LOT of player support for that idea to pass.
This is what I meant about TI not being built for nobility. Nobles exist, but the game is not, nor was it ever, ABOUT nobles.
I'm not sure it is now, but I do know a lot of players are popping in and going "Wow, I'm new, so I don't feel up to playing a member of the ruling class... but that means I'm making a non-noble... and wow, who do I RP with that's like me?"
Lately, I haven't seen an overwhelming amount of nobility around, however, so I'm not sure this "problem" is as great as the enthusiasm of the discussions on the forums seem to imply.
The Purpose of Nobility, or Lack Thereof
I am just going to say that, Nobility, IMO, plays very little role in much of anything that is dynamic to the game itself. You dont do much IC per se as the character itself does "Behind the scenes." Lets be honest here, how much does a Duchess or Duke REALLY do that is responsible to a Duchess or Duke while they are actually playing?.....not very much, and if they do then its once in a blue moon. Same with a Baron, or Count, or such things. Im sorry, and no disrespect to anyone at all, trust me. But I dont see a Count, joining the Knights, nor do I see a Baron doing that either. Either they were a Knight as a Courtier or something, but never would I think such a thing were to occur that they just up decide "hey, i want to be a page and squire of the knights". If your a Count or even a Baron you have WAY too many responsibilities on your plate to go joining the Knights.
Again, no disrespect to anyone, and mostly I know its due to the fact that there is not much Barony or County things to actually do. So pleaes dont take offense to my remark as I am simply stating an example. The first Daravi war provided some things, gusing Baronies and such for numbers. But other than that, what really do they do aside from looke pretty and drink tea, or wine, or whatever.
And I am going to have to disagree wholly Eris, i love you, but no. You may be providing alot of "behind the scene" type RP that has not come to the PBase knowledge, but certainly nothing that is impacting them now per se. I know there is a tourny comming up, but nothing really other than that has been provided to a pbase as a whole.
Now, I am not saying I dislike having nobles around, they are an essential part of the game and theme. Nor do I disagree with never seeing them. They have a damn palace they can chill at, why come mettle with the freeman folk? But I do agree that more Freeman should be played to counter this, really. Lets think of everyone having an alt. Thats at least two players online at a time and lets face it. New people enjoy populated MUDs, not the same wholist everytime they log in and then feel deflated because such said Noble is on and they know they wont interact with their Freeman. Yes, of course they may make a Noble, and they most likely will. But if they are like me, I really prefer playing my Freeman over my noble, much more fun.
All in all, its true. A noble is just really there, to be there. Look pretty, socialize, make fun of freeman, scoff at freeman, flaunt their jewelry, boast about their lands, flaunt money. Things of that nature....and ride horses...thats the new thing now. Horse riding.
My two cents, as always.
Again, no disrespect to anyone, and mostly I know its due to the fact that there is not much Barony or County things to actually do. So pleaes dont take offense to my remark as I am simply stating an example. The first Daravi war provided some things, gusing Baronies and such for numbers. But other than that, what really do they do aside from looke pretty and drink tea, or wine, or whatever.
And I am going to have to disagree wholly Eris, i love you, but no. You may be providing alot of "behind the scene" type RP that has not come to the PBase knowledge, but certainly nothing that is impacting them now per se. I know there is a tourny comming up, but nothing really other than that has been provided to a pbase as a whole.
Now, I am not saying I dislike having nobles around, they are an essential part of the game and theme. Nor do I disagree with never seeing them. They have a damn palace they can chill at, why come mettle with the freeman folk? But I do agree that more Freeman should be played to counter this, really. Lets think of everyone having an alt. Thats at least two players online at a time and lets face it. New people enjoy populated MUDs, not the same wholist everytime they log in and then feel deflated because such said Noble is on and they know they wont interact with their Freeman. Yes, of course they may make a Noble, and they most likely will. But if they are like me, I really prefer playing my Freeman over my noble, much more fun.
All in all, its true. A noble is just really there, to be there. Look pretty, socialize, make fun of freeman, scoff at freeman, flaunt their jewelry, boast about their lands, flaunt money. Things of that nature....and ride horses...thats the new thing now. Horse riding.
My two cents, as always.
Ahh, Enix - they serve three very valuable game functions:
1) they provide something for people to strive for/achieve.
2) they act as escalation or decision-making points when the rabble just can't get along.
3) they give the theme weight. Without them, TI wouldn't be TI.
1) they provide something for people to strive for/achieve.
2) they act as escalation or decision-making points when the rabble just can't get along.
3) they give the theme weight. Without them, TI wouldn't be TI.
Enix - Most nobles on TI would fall more into the "being friendly with freemen" rather than the "making fun of freemen" category IMHO.
Enis - It's not just a social barrier thing.
For the Reeves, Order, Knights, Thieves and Manus, the interests of members of each of these guilds directly conflicts with the others. If Rubeus Manus is a really nice guy who just wants to look after himself and his people, and the Earl Marshall is just a really nice woman who just wants to do her job, each of those characters following their own motives and interests creates a conflict and generates dynamic RP that affects the entire MUD.
Not all the conflicts have to be that bloody or obvious. The Reeves, Order and Knights each have more subtle conflicts with each other in jockeying for influence and/or position. There are internal conflicts related to advancement within each guild, and due to the higher proportion of mages and thieves in the Merchants and Troubadours there are often intra-guild conflicts when those individuals are discovered within the guild. Moreover, the interests of the Merchants and Troubadours as guilds, while not as centred on conflict, are centred on interacting with and involving customers and patrons.
The trouble is that for the most part a noble's interests don't conflict with the interest of others, nor do their duties require them to interact with the MUD at large. Better RPers like yourself make a conscious effort to deal with this and involve others in their RP, but the reality is that on a MUD-while scale, we're better off if RP is generated organically through people acting rationally and naturally than having to make an effort and go out of their way to involve others in their RP. That doesn't mean that nobles don't fill an important role - it just means that too many nobles can have a negative effect on the overall RP scene on the MUD. As Kinaed pointed out, one of the major roles nobles play is as a decision making point when the rabble can't get along. The trouble is that sometimes, we don't want the rabble to get along, and with too many nobles that doesn't happen.
I think Kinaed hits the nail on the head in terms of just numbers. We have what, ~35 RP-active chars on the MUD, around 6 of whom are nobles? There are 7 other guilds that need members too.
I think there is an almost as important point being missed though. Eris, what is it that you find so appealing in terms of playing a noble? Obviously no one is talking about doing away with existing nobles, but I think it'd be worth knowing what itch it is that nobility scratches for people, so going forward there's still a way to satisfy that need for new players.
Enis - It's not just a social barrier thing.
For the Reeves, Order, Knights, Thieves and Manus, the interests of members of each of these guilds directly conflicts with the others. If Rubeus Manus is a really nice guy who just wants to look after himself and his people, and the Earl Marshall is just a really nice woman who just wants to do her job, each of those characters following their own motives and interests creates a conflict and generates dynamic RP that affects the entire MUD.
Not all the conflicts have to be that bloody or obvious. The Reeves, Order and Knights each have more subtle conflicts with each other in jockeying for influence and/or position. There are internal conflicts related to advancement within each guild, and due to the higher proportion of mages and thieves in the Merchants and Troubadours there are often intra-guild conflicts when those individuals are discovered within the guild. Moreover, the interests of the Merchants and Troubadours as guilds, while not as centred on conflict, are centred on interacting with and involving customers and patrons.
The trouble is that for the most part a noble's interests don't conflict with the interest of others, nor do their duties require them to interact with the MUD at large. Better RPers like yourself make a conscious effort to deal with this and involve others in their RP, but the reality is that on a MUD-while scale, we're better off if RP is generated organically through people acting rationally and naturally than having to make an effort and go out of their way to involve others in their RP. That doesn't mean that nobles don't fill an important role - it just means that too many nobles can have a negative effect on the overall RP scene on the MUD. As Kinaed pointed out, one of the major roles nobles play is as a decision making point when the rabble can't get along. The trouble is that sometimes, we don't want the rabble to get along, and with too many nobles that doesn't happen.
I think Kinaed hits the nail on the head in terms of just numbers. We have what, ~35 RP-active chars on the MUD, around 6 of whom are nobles? There are 7 other guilds that need members too.
I think there is an almost as important point being missed though. Eris, what is it that you find so appealing in terms of playing a noble? Obviously no one is talking about doing away with existing nobles, but I think it'd be worth knowing what itch it is that nobility scratches for people, so going forward there's still a way to satisfy that need for new players.
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