The Stranglehold of the Holy Order

[LonelyNeptune]

Just no.

I'm hurt that you would respond to my carefully considered feedback with something so flippant and dismissive.

In the vein of having a mature, participatory conversation, let's please refrain from raising (particularly recent) IC situations, especially if the parties in question are emotionally invested in whatever happened. Instead, as requested at the outset, please focus on high level discussion.

It's no longer possible to provide accurate, constructive criticism on the treatment of the Holy Order when we are not permitted to discuss recent, relevant events involving the Holy Order.

I will have to bow out of this discussion to remain respectful.

[Voxumo]

Staff are not issue of why the order is failing. Perhaps the confusing lore could be blamed on staff, but blaming staff, specifically the position of cardinal as the reason why the order is failing and has such low numbers is ridiculous, as it had such problems well before current events. The order is failing because of the community, because of how the playerbase perceives and rps about the order. The order failing is OUR fault, not staff's, as much as some would love to place majority of blame on them. The order will not see a change until we, as players, want to actually change it. Honestly no amount of discussion will change that, just bring it to our attention, as it's quite easy to not even realize how one RPs a certain topic.


Though Taunya does have a fair point about perhaps being in the order needs some kind of incentive, something that affects rp, as right now the only incentives are purely ooc.

[Taunya]

LonelyNeptune-

For what it's worth, I agree with you that contacting NPCs should always be an absolute last resort, and it should be RPed out whenever possible. But perhaps thoughts on that should be a new topic.

But I do think we can converse and come up with ideas without bringing up specific IC events.

[Helena]

Hello alls,

I'm the player behind Helena, Cerise, and Purity, three acolytes who did not manage to become priestess.

Is the order a powerfull, broadly oppressive regime?
I can't judge from the outside, since all my characters were orderites. But from the inside, I must say it is very oppressive. Actually, what made my time difficult within the order is the feeling I have no other RP with my hierarchy than receiving blames and being threatenned as heretic. All my acolytes have suffered a review of faith, two of them were sent in ahalin, one was tortured. For the sake of privacy, let's say it was for no obvious reasons.

Is the GI hindered by the cardinal?
I'm confident with the staff, and believe they use the cardinal's power appropriately. Actually, the cardinal is the only counter power of the GI, and I'm glad it exists. Yet, I'd probably prefer the order had more priests, able to be a counter power of some kind to the GI.

Should we open applications for priests?
Please, don't: It's extremely discouraging for an acolyte to see people apping to a higher rank. Consider modifying the situation of the acolytes instead, if you think it's an impediment to have priests.

Should we give priests a coded advantage of some kind?
That won't make people play priests more, imho. The Lore give a special place to priests that they could use at their advantage, it's something to dig imho.

Personal opinion:
I do not understand where the question "is the order oppressive enough" comes from. Imho, it's not the correct way to wonder about the order's situation.

[Geras]

May I submit that the Order would feel more powerful, and hence more willing to act and more fun to play, if there were simply more of them? I think opening applications for priests would shift things a decent amount over time.

[Geras]

And if not apping in priests, then at least acolytes.

[Geras]

Or not at all. Helena changed my mind.

[Kinaed]

Personal opinion:
I do not understand where the question "is the order oppressive enough" comes from. Imho, it's not the correct way to wonder about the order's situation.

I admit, I wrote this post after speaking to only two players, and found an interesting commonality in their thoughts. What do you believe is the correct way to consider the Order's situation?

[Evrald]

My personal feelings on the situation are from a place outside the Order as I've never had an Orderite. As far as I can tell, the Cardinal is a needed balance for when a Grand Inquisitor goes Rogue. However speaking in the sense that the Order has faith in whoever it puts in the most powerful position in the most prestigious location being the Holy City of Lithmore. I believe that the Cardinal should be far from a 'Neutral' party. If someone sends the Cardinal a letter of, "Hey. Your Grand Inquisitor is being a douche!" the cardinal should infact respond with, "Maybe you're a douche? Should I schedule you for a Review of Faith for your questions about the Leadership of the Holy Order of Dav?" The only time a Cardinal should respond any other way is if it's multiple Guildleaders and Nobility stepping up to complain about the Grand Inquisitor. Or if the Grand Inquisitor's Approval is at the Red gambit stage at which point the Cardinal sends a letter saying, "Hey. I'm hearing a lot of negative things about you. Figure it out, or they will call for your resignation." The player then has their time before the 'Cardinal' issues a Gambit leaving it in the on-grid players hands.

Doing it this way makes the Order's management feel very unified and basically tells players that if they want IC recourse for the arguably most powerful position on Grid, they need to work together for it and not just send letters to staff crying that they were the only person not able to play in the playground because the GI is a butt to mages or heretics or anyone who doesn't actually act like a good Davite. News Flash to those who aren't aware, If you are in Lithmore(the entire grid) and you don't openly act like a good Davite, you do infact have a reason for the Inquisition to not like you and make your life a living hell, up to and including branding and pyring.

[Tasker]

My personal feelings on the situation are from a place outside the Order as I've never had an Orderite. As far as I can tell, the Cardinal is a needed balance for when a Grand Inquisitor goes Rogue.

Just to weigh in.

Really, the Earl Marshal should be the one to contact at first port of call for any complaints about the GI. They both serve as checks and balances to eachother, and certainly the Earl Marshal would be empowered to challenge the GI should there be something particuarly abrasive afoot!