A Matter of the Patriarchy
I get what you're saying, Kinaed, but I don't think it really addressed my question. The patriarch is who has the most ab Harmon blood. If we find that person, wouldn't they ALSO have the claim to the throne? The idea with Tobin taking over is there was no one with ab Harmon blood able to do so, because they all died. If we find someone with ab Harmon blood, then they should be both Patriarch AND Monarch.
Regardless of if it's an NPC or PC, I don't think it's feasible for ab Harmon blood to have anything to do with it.
All that said, as far as NPC's taking a lot of time for staff, I have to question this as a former Order GL: Exactly when and how much is the Patriarch going to do, anyway? We had the Queen while I was with the Order and I think I went to her ONCE and that was only in an extreme case (and had nothing to do with theology - even if the Monarch wasn't the Patriarch, I would have gone to them to put Tobin in line over the issue of the stocks being put in the Square and expected them to fall in line with what the Church wanted). It seemed like it was just a ceremonial role. I honestly can't see them being needed constantly and if they did become a major role, I think it'll muck up the Order too much. It's frankly already difficult in the Order having two major GL's with such different roles (and keeping those positions staffed), if you add in a third, it's going to be impossible to get anything done in the Order at all (between the GI, C, and Patriarch). Either NPC it or tack it on to the Cardinal's responsibility.
I'm also having a hard time seeing how the Order would become decentralized or stricken in game with a lack of a Patriarchy. The Cardinal of Lithmore is the Grand Pooh-Bah of the Order. The duchies still are under their authority. It's a highly organized and structured organization; that isn't going to go away with the lack of a Patriarch. Further, we don't have the playerbase for that sort of storyline to work out, anyway.
Regardless of if it's an NPC or PC, I don't think it's feasible for ab Harmon blood to have anything to do with it.
All that said, as far as NPC's taking a lot of time for staff, I have to question this as a former Order GL: Exactly when and how much is the Patriarch going to do, anyway? We had the Queen while I was with the Order and I think I went to her ONCE and that was only in an extreme case (and had nothing to do with theology - even if the Monarch wasn't the Patriarch, I would have gone to them to put Tobin in line over the issue of the stocks being put in the Square and expected them to fall in line with what the Church wanted). It seemed like it was just a ceremonial role. I honestly can't see them being needed constantly and if they did become a major role, I think it'll muck up the Order too much. It's frankly already difficult in the Order having two major GL's with such different roles (and keeping those positions staffed), if you add in a third, it's going to be impossible to get anything done in the Order at all (between the GI, C, and Patriarch). Either NPC it or tack it on to the Cardinal's responsibility.
I'm also having a hard time seeing how the Order would become decentralized or stricken in game with a lack of a Patriarchy. The Cardinal of Lithmore is the Grand Pooh-Bah of the Order. The duchies still are under their authority. It's a highly organized and structured organization; that isn't going to go away with the lack of a Patriarch. Further, we don't have the playerbase for that sort of storyline to work out, anyway.
Just vaguely going to answer Wimple's post...
The patriarch isn't who has the most ab Harmon blood by definition. The definition is the the Patriarch is the pinnacle title of the Holy Order. Traditionally, this was an ab Harmon and it was treated as hereditary, but equally, the belief of people at large is that anyone with more than an iota of ab Harmon blood is either dead or mad at the moment. Traditions change, but the structure of the church wouldn't.
In reply to Geras' post - that's what the High Synod is, actually. That's the staff stopgap.
No PC can call the High Synod alone because the Cardinals, archbishops and bishops from the other duchies are on it. So, for it to happen, the staff have to recognize the need or be asked by the pbase. When the High Synod does sit, how it's resolved is entirely at staff whim, be it a vote of the Holy Order to decide an issue (see stripping the patriarchy in this case) to simple staff fiat - we think the Cardinal's doing a bad job, they're removed. The High Synod outstrips the Patriarchy in power (though the Patriarch sits on it), and all the other hoo ha.
Historically the High Synod was used to introduce Cardinals when a Cardinal died or retired, but it's also been used to implement other decisions or override decisions we didn't approve of (priestly marriage, I think, was an example). Anyway, I'm not sure that having a patriarch be a PC would be a problem so long as the High Synod remains in staff hands, which it definitely always will. But the High Synod is easier for staff to manage than the patriarchy because a single NPC is a personality we have to RP, watch the mail of, and essentially be a good leader. That's a pain in the ass I know I'd like to avoid, which actually pushes me towards apping in a PC.
The patriarch isn't who has the most ab Harmon blood by definition. The definition is the the Patriarch is the pinnacle title of the Holy Order. Traditionally, this was an ab Harmon and it was treated as hereditary, but equally, the belief of people at large is that anyone with more than an iota of ab Harmon blood is either dead or mad at the moment. Traditions change, but the structure of the church wouldn't.
In reply to Geras' post - that's what the High Synod is, actually. That's the staff stopgap.
No PC can call the High Synod alone because the Cardinals, archbishops and bishops from the other duchies are on it. So, for it to happen, the staff have to recognize the need or be asked by the pbase. When the High Synod does sit, how it's resolved is entirely at staff whim, be it a vote of the Holy Order to decide an issue (see stripping the patriarchy in this case) to simple staff fiat - we think the Cardinal's doing a bad job, they're removed. The High Synod outstrips the Patriarchy in power (though the Patriarch sits on it), and all the other hoo ha.
Historically the High Synod was used to introduce Cardinals when a Cardinal died or retired, but it's also been used to implement other decisions or override decisions we didn't approve of (priestly marriage, I think, was an example). Anyway, I'm not sure that having a patriarch be a PC would be a problem so long as the High Synod remains in staff hands, which it definitely always will. But the High Synod is easier for staff to manage than the patriarchy because a single NPC is a personality we have to RP, watch the mail of, and essentially be a good leader. That's a pain in the ass I know I'd like to avoid, which actually pushes me towards apping in a PC.
I can understand why it's a pain in the ass for staff and why you don't want to do it, but it's equally going to be a pain in the ass for the Order GLship. It was impossible to even get a second GL when I was in and you're having an rotating door of Cardinals. Having things going through two people is already difficult, a third with this playerbase... I guess I just don't see it as realistic. I personally voted for NPC because I don't feel like a Patriarch is needed or going to be approached often, so that seemed like the best option.
With the votes so high for NPC and staff so against it, I'm wondering if a poll for NPC vs no patriarch or rolling the patriarch into the cardinalship might actually be more worthwhile.
With the votes so high for NPC and staff so against it, I'm wondering if a poll for NPC vs no patriarch or rolling the patriarch into the cardinalship might actually be more worthwhile.
Yeah, I personally highly favor rolling the Patriarchy into the role of Lithmorran Cardinal and starting a tradition that, as there's no Lithmorran Duke, there's no Lithmorran Cardinal either. This being said, I understand there's RP going on in the land down under that may have interesting possible results, so I'll hold off to see who, if anyone, contacts the staff to see if we're running a High Synod again. Otherwise, if I feel the moment is past, I'll make a decision and get on with it. I think we're at least a week away from that. Also, I htink with the flood going on, the patriarchy is probably not at the head of the average Lithmorran's list of priorities.
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