Mage v Knight Balance, Revisited

[Starstarfish]

Being an outed mage has put me in a fun position - I've had numerous new players approach me OOC for advice on "Okay what? Element? Moon? Astral Avatar? Rituals?? What does any of this mean??!" Which I was thrilled to be able to assist with.

This is literally the core reason for the discussion on bringing back some kind of organized Mage Guild/group so that these conversations don't -need- to take place OOC. Which is arguably a touch problematic for a few various reasons.

[Dreams]

Mages have an IG OOC help channel for things like mechanics that is monitored by staff, and active only when staff are online to monitor to make sure things are kept IG like they should be. There is no real need to take it out of the game.

[Taunya]

To my knowledge, the help channel is only open to awakened mages however, I expect some latents would be seeking help as well.

[Dreams]

To my knowledge, the help channel is only open to awakened mages however, I expect some latents would be seeking help as well.

Having had a latent in the past, I can confirm this is true. However, latents have nothing to do with avatars, moons, or any of that stuff yet. They have zero magical skill until they are awakened, and cannot use any magical commands.

[nemovonfish]

Doing it on-grid is in some regards too late. A brand new player is asked what element they want to be. Without OOC knowledge, this is an entirely arbitrary decision - there's no indication what each element is capable of, and in fact, many of the spells are completely counter-intuitive.

Example: You'd think Mind Reading and Mind Control would be in the same school, right? One more advanced than the other? Nope, completely different, without any overlap or reference to the other.

Since element is the most important facet to your mage life, it stands to reason that it should be the most informed decision you make, not the least.


Getting back to the point of the thread, there's not only a vast IC power imbalance there's an OOC/mechanical one as well. The former is fine, the latter is not. Having a guild leader without a guild hall is a step forward, but doesn't reflect the uniqueness of their situation - mages cannot and will not ever be accepted as legitimate. They will always be tortured to death.

Instead, I'd suggest a Mentor system - tether yourself to a more experienced mage, much like a voluntary mutual Regnancy, with the understanding that betraying this trust is either strongly discouraged or outright against the rules. Don't like your Mentor/Protegé? Break the tether, don't betray them.

Also, latent mages need way more love. From what I understand, they get a single message coming out of cyan, and that's it. No further direction, advice, RP hooks, nada.

[Dreams]

If mage is chosen, the mage channel is available in chargen - they don't have to be on grid.

Rerolls are a thing. If they use the channel and change their mind after getting more info or reading helpfiles, they are not stuck with what they chose when they didn't know.

So, no. Dealing with it outside of the game is still not necessary.

[Starstarfish]

Also, latent mages need way more love. From what I understand, they get a single message coming out of cyan, and that's it. No further direction, advice, RP hooks, nada.

It was mentioned at the time that the latent coding changed ... that it is more awkward now that latent mages (to my understanding) no longer dictate or know their element. Therefore, they can feel more lost than before about how to have RP hooks about 'odd affinities' and the like.

So maybe there needs to be some consideration on the idea of people not finding out they are latent until they are out of cyan status. Doesn't that mean they essentially have to figure out a major character factor now -after- they are no longer covered by cyan protection?

[nemovonfish]

If mage is chosen, the mage channel is available in chargen - they don't have to be on grid.

How many mages made mage friends - enough to have a complete understanding of what each element is capable of - within their first 75 hours? How many mages right now would have chosen their element differently if they knew then what they knew now?

My original character concept was for a Magecrafter - I didn't want to be a wizard, I wanted to make artifacts. Now, seven hundred hours later, I have only just learned that I chose the completely wrong element. Is it too late to go back to chargen?

That question is rhetorical.

[Puciek]

It ruins the mystery, both on an IC and OOC level.

Consider your position - you're an old player, there's likely not much you don't know about magic in this game. There is no OOC mystery for you, and therefore it's very hard to roleplay any IC mystery. The only players therefore WITH ooc mystery about magic are younger or newer players - the very ones you rely on to be able to do your job as head mage murderer. "Keeping the mystery" only applies to these new players, limiting their choices, and making them much more likely to frak up, get outed, and consequently burnt by yourself. More mage ash for you, right?

Yes, I am unironically asking you to check your privilege.

Mechanical mage mystery exclusively harms new players, limits their RP, dissuades folk from being mages, and therefore damages the basic theme of the game.

Because of my involvement with the game I have access to very much all the game secrets but that doesn't mean that my characters have such knowledge. This is what the roleplay part comes into play, that even though there may be no secrets for me, the player, I have to gatekeep the knowledge from flowing and influencing IC. The reason why mage, religion and thievery helpfiles are not reachable by everyone is to aid in preserving the mystery, but then nothing stops you from rolling any of those in charged and reading up until your heart is content.

And that is the point I kind of tried to make, as the fact that mages need to use weapons to kill isn't an OOC secret, not at all - there are forum and board posts about it, but got to check yourself how exactly did your character came to such conclusion that, somehow, this one mage you are chasing, is not capable of turning into a 17 headed demon whenever he pleases.

[Dreams]

If mage is chosen, the mage channel is available in chargen - they don't have to be on grid.

How many mages made mage friends - enough to have a complete understanding of what each element is capable of - within their first 75 hours? How many mages right now would have chosen their element differently if they knew then what they knew now?

My original character concept was for a Magecrafter - I didn't want to be a wizard, I wanted to make artifacts. Now, seven hundred hours later, I have only just learned that I chose the completely wrong element. Is it too late to go back to chargen?

That question is rhetorical.

Please explain to me how your response has anything to do with an OOC mage channel being available in chargen? Because I am not seeing the relationship.

That question is not rhetorical.