Communal Brainstorm for Non-Lethal Order/Mage Conflict!

[Delphine]

As requested in this week's OOC meeting, here is a place where we can, as a group, brainstorm ways for the Order and Magic PEW-PEW people to engage in some conflict RP that doesn't necessarily result in K.O. and then FINISHING THEM.

I'll swing back by with my own thoughts and ideas here in a bit. But just getting it up for now so we can get the discussion ball rolling!

[Rothgar]

There's never going to be a end all for this conversation, unfortunately - some Orderites play one way, some play the other. Some are stabby, others are less so. Some are forgiving sorts, others aren't in the least. So let that be the disclaimer here. No matter what is decided, this will probably be best used as a broad-strokes guideline for RP between the two parties, rather than an end-all be-all conversation about what should be done.

It's been... I want to say nearly three years since I've played a Mage in earnest. A lot has changed since then - some things for the better, some for the worse. I've got some ideas that I'll list below of things that I've never seen played out, or seem to be incredibly rare with the current (8 month+) set of Mages. TL;DR for you, these are all going to be ways that we can have a back and forth conversation, rather than a one-sided one.

Shadowmeld
Yes, yes. Those of us who have been with the MUD for a while probably remember when every Mage on the Urth was using this spell to talk all that good shit all over Lithmore. Yes, it gets annoying sometimes. Yes, if you're bothering me twice a day with it, it gets old quick. Yes, I can dispel it with a single sword swipe. But, honestly, this is probably the best way of getting a heart-to-heart with your local Priest/Inquisitor. Personally, I enjoy it, and I also have the added benefit of being able to get them to shut up at any point in the conversation with a single punch.

Stalker? Aquiel's Stalker? Whatever.
That two-way thought thing. I've always kind of liked this, and I don't 100% recall if it's via an item or a spell cast upon another, but that's been RP'd with me in the past to good effect. I've had entire conversations like this (Albeit conversations that were... Stupid. But still), and the greatest bit about them is that no-one in the room with the parties would ever know it was happening unless you told them aloud. And, AFAIR, neither of the thinkers can ascertain who, exactly, is sending them the thinks. It's more or less 100% anonymous.

Dreamweave
Good old-fashioned Dreamweave. One of my favorite spells, but I've been told anonymously that we're not allowed to post words in it anymore. Still, though, it's legitimately always a joy when I get one of these, and it saddens me that it seems to be such an overlooked and neglected spell. Still, though, Dreamweave can get the attention of someone but good, and I would be overjoyed to have someone interact with me like that. It's one of my favorite things to log in and see, and getting a dreamweave is practically like getting a perfumed love-letter, in my book. I just love it so much.

Mail, Messengers, etc
I've always maintained that having a Mage pen-pal would be a blast. In theory, the only person an Inquisitor can really confess to is the Cardinal Himself - but lets be honest : a Mage would be the perfect person to confess to, as an Inquisitor. They can only talk to other Mages about it, and who's going to believe a filthy Mage, telling lies about an Inquisitor? Pah. These are the most basic and old-fashioned solutions, and they're the ones I identify most closely with - I've always got time for a mail, and I can usually take a messenger where I'm at. One of the perks of being an Inquisitor - no one yells at you for that stuff.

Anyway, that's what I've got. There's another few spells here, but I honestly can't remember them right now. This is what I could think of off the top of my head, really, and I hope it gets the gears turning for some folks. I've said it in threads before, and I'll say it again - there's literally no reason for me to attack Mages first if I'm not getting actively blasted myself, and I'd honestly love to get some attention in the realm of Magely stuff without having to get shot at with lightning every time I go outside. Best of luck, all.

[Voxumo]

I know this will likely be viewed as cheesy, but both sides should really keep an open mind. Some of the best rp I had on Rhea was with inquisitors who weren't so gungoh and ready to attack on a moments notice. The prime example of this is a scene that took place in the crossroads. There is a spell that allows you to cast illusions, but at the time it was very limited, ie one pose per cast of the spell. Zaerieth was willing to allow my mage to rp as if the illusion was still active, even though codewise it wasn't. So one rped illusion and the flight spell had my mage rping as she grew wings and it was the wings that granted her flight, when really it was the illusion, and the mage of course knew this, but the populace wouldn't. That little bit of leeway allowed for a wonderful scene that not only furthered the rp Zaerieth and Rhea had been having prior, but opened up the path for another inquisitor to get involved, along with a random passerby who happened to pause during the little scene.

Along a similar line, not every encounter must start or end in attacking. I played Rhea for two years, not once did I ever pkill someone, or even really fight anyone aside from a fleeing attack that was not initiated by me, but was forced. Infact the whole 4 or 5 years I've been playing, I've never had to pkill anyone aside from in official manners such as pyrings and executions. Combat is great, but often rp not revolving around combat is far better and more rewarding. Plus your partners will be more open to such scenes in the future if they know it means their character won't end up bedridden.

In summary, if you play an inquisitor or priest who is oocly open to bending code, such as in the illusion example, for the sake of rp, maybe put it in your whois information. Mages don't really have that same luxury to put such information, but if you are a discovered mage/known mage, maybe consider putting such information in your whois as well.

[Starstarfish]

I'll attempt to offer thought on this from my perspective - I sort of offered these thoughts before on yon olde Knight/Mage thread, but here it is:

- Having interactions with mages or really with any antagonistic character is easier when that person has human weaknesses and flaws and things that make them vulnerable personality wise even if physically/magically/codedly they don't have a lot of weaknesses. Something that others can play off and try and use as a hook to get to understand them. Drop hints about your character's background, etc. Yes this makes your char more "vulnerable" but it makes interacting with them on a person to person level easier.

- Likewise, an interest in discovering things about "your enemies" backgrounds to play off. Ask people to possibly flesh out their public helpfile for more info to play with, potentially open a plot with the other person to investigate them in some way to discover something to play off.

I can't tell you how often I have been (not necessarily as my Orderite) in an RP scene that was antagonistic where I was just begging to give my "enemy" some insight some meat into my character and it got shut down with people telling me "my character wouldn't care about that." When something that could have been really interesting or deep and meaningful just got shut down with "who cares."

- Find ways to be an antagonist that don't play off PK as the only end goal how about - blackmail? public humiliation? robbery? extortion?

Ask yourself - if your character didn't have magic, how would they handle this? Use magic then as an augment not the only thing that is the go to.

- To my knowledge there are things useful in Magecraft that one could try and send as amusing gifts that could be used as both a subtle insult and a further plot hook about the amusement and/or deeper question of convincing an Orderite or even the wider public to use or keep them. Potions to approve appearance to someone you discover is vain? Other such things.

[Starstarfish]

Also, judgement free zone - if you want to add something to this post but don't want to be publicly known as the person posting it - anonymous mail to clioame@gmail.com - don't need to include your character name or anything and I'll post it in the interest of keeping this talk going, as I think it's key and important to vital game RP.

[Kinaed]

So... I once held a brainstorming session where players got into a room and thought of 101 non-lethal ways to screw with their enemies. I can't seem to find the list we came up with, but it was potent (so much so that someone felt the need to leave the session because of how poisonous they thought it was). Anyone have a log or anything? I was rather proud of that list. *cough*

[Starstarfish]

Maybe put that out on the Discord and/or on post on game too requesting if anyone has that log? There might be someone there that remembers that doesn't join us on the forums. That does sound like a cool potential list though.

I can think of lots of other cool things, but I have slightly limited know how if code wise some of the other things are actually even possible.

[Geras]

I think it's the nature of the beast that mages will die if they get captured by the Order. That being said, I think it's worthwhile for Orderites/lawful types to realize that a mage (or thief) getting away is not the end of the world. From the standpoint of antagonism from the Order that doesn't result in the PK of mages, I think the only tools relevant to that is are ones that help mages escape and/or conceal their identity. Rename become more difficult is a bit of a setback for that, though I think there's been some progress on that from magecraft.

Find ways to be an antagonist that don't play off PK as the only end goal how about - blackmail? public humiliation? robbery? extortion?

This a hundred times, and I'd apply that to Reeves and Thieves as well. Short of rotting in a cell forever, PK is the least RP friendly outcome from any situation.

Blackmail, public humiliation, robbery, extortion - we need players willing to push these options, but I think we need greater code support for it too. I've long requested some sort of coded stocks/pillory for the Reeves, so that rather imprisoning people in RP-unfriendly cells, we could leave them locked in stocks in public for a defined period of time or amount of RPXP earned, and then be done with it. I'm sure the Thieves would love something similar as would the Order, and I'm sure mages would love a magical equivalent. Brands and tattoos, magical or mundane, have some support right now, but I'd like to see that expanded too.

[Starstarfish]

We have restraint items, couldn't one of them be installed as a no-take item in a public place and a key given to appropriate folks (or for sale in the Guild shops as appropriate.) Because I'd agree that a stocks/docking stool - etc would be a great way to enforce punishments that still allow RP.

[Puciek]

Stocks are WIP with staff, was mentioned few OOC meetings ago. Although given how rare it is for reeves/order to actually capture someone, the implementation of non-violent tools for thieves/mages and other villains will likely have a bigger impact.