Basic prices

[Kuzco]

With the elimination of purchase wealth and the implementation of assets tied to city metrics, there is less money all around, or rather, it's a bit harder to get.
Which I think is awesome.
However, I do think that some prices should be adjusted for this. Not for stuff that should logically be easier to attain to wealthier people (a new freeman with damascus steel is a nono) but for example:
-basic cooking implements
-messengers
-retool costs
-price of rumors

What say you?

[Lei]

I rarely purchase rumors because of their prohibitive cost. They get really pricey! And the cheap ones don't give much information.

[Voxumo]

I do think prices all around need to be looked at, primarily in regards to merchants. The items they need to make their goods should be reduced firstly, so that in turn they can reduce their prices while still making profit.

So many people are still in the mindset of previous rates.

[Whisper]

I agree that prices need to be adjusted a bit. Playing a new character who is a merchant is somewhat difficult when you can barely afford to buy the needed supplies to craft. And any money you make is solely reliant on people buying your stuff and with less money the more fancy trades like artwork tend to get ignored completely.

I agree with Voxumo. If the cost of crafting supplies is reduced then crafters can make more stuff and sell it for less. And then hopefully people will buy more stuff and allow the merchants to keep on making stuff. And the economy profits!

I also don't use messengers because I feel they cost too much. Most of my characters are either pretty broke or pretty thrifty and 5 silver quickly adds up for them. Guild leaders probably lose 25 silver a day or more if they are sending messages by the amount that they probably receive them. Maybe knock it down to 3 silver?

Rumors on the other hand? I don't know what to do about them. I would suggest a flat 1 silver cost but some rumors are more popular than others and the code reflects that. Maybe instead of rumor popularity focus on locations where you hear the rumors? Like people are more likely to talk in taverns so you get a discount on the base price of the rumor while in places like that? It could be something like a 50% discount on buying a rumor when you do so in a tavern or from a place with bard NPCs. Because I envision bards as chatty...

Anyway those are just my opinions and ideas.

[Puciek]

The stuff you make/sell has to be expensive, the whole idea was to bring back the value of silver - and cutting down prices would once again remove that from it. The fact that people struggle for silver is a good, not a bad thing because they have to make decisions and that opens playing space for a lot of secondary markets like stolen goods. The fact it takes months to buy basic trade tools is perfectly within what would be realistic, those were ridiculously expensive things back then.

Similarly, when levelling a merchant you are not supposed to be able to just breeze to master in a week or two unless you are playing some gentry merchant with deep pockets. And not being able to to do that opens a lot of RP opportunities like looking for a sponsor, cutting deal with your trade master to support your training, selling your behind in the dolphin for supplies etc. There are many ways to get there, and there is plenty of silver available on the grid - just have to get creative about it.

But really people, especially freemen, should not have a lot of stuff - one cheap outfit at most, maybe some raggedy iron weapon that was used up for last 5 years etc. And almost any artist would require a wealthy sponsor to do their artistry thing - I know that deals like that were already set on the grid with happiness achieved for both sides. So I am not sure why do you say that artistry gets ignored, as we have few who do it with success.

Rumors you can get for free from a bard - find them out, beat the rumours out of them. Or pay them few silvers for a complete catchup - up to you! But see how this RP opens up, where before everyone just bought them all of the rumor systems, now it actually makes sense to seek the alternative source.

[Voxumo]

While I get where you are coming from Puciek, and agree with certain points of what you've said, the fact remains our current market values are based around a system where silver was able to be obtained in abundance. Our currency system is no longer based around that method, and as such the game's economy also needs to have it's rates based on the current system, not based on the prior system. No one's expecting silver to be as devalued as it was previously, but instead seeking it's value to be in line with the current supply and availability of silver. This is a change that will require code and mentality changes.

Also realism is fine and dandy, but this is a game and it's priority should be enjoyment over realism.

[Niamh]

Hey guys! I'm working on going through every craft/trade and figuring out how much it actually costs to advance not to mastery, but to what should be reasonably achievable levels. It's taking a good while because it's a time-consuming business, but it's coming, and when we have that data we're going to be going through them and changing things as needed. So! Hang in there, and rest assured we're aware things might need tweaking.

[Puciek]

While I get where you are coming from Puciek, and agree with certain points of what you've said, the fact remains our current market values are based around a system where silver was able to be obtained in abundance. Our currency system is no longer based around that method, and as such the game's economy also needs to have it's rates based on the current system, not based on the prior system. No one's expecting silver to be as devalued as it was previously, but instead seeking it's value to be in line with the current supply and availability of silver. This is a change that will require code and mentality changes.

Also realism is fine and dandy, but this is a game and it's priority should be enjoyment over realism.

But what part of fun does it prohibit? I mean if you want someone without money troubles play gentry, as the very difference between freemen and gentry is the size of bank account. And when weighing silver available I still see, in the limited part of the grid I see, insane sums being tossed around frivolously, so I would say that there is plenty to go around, just have to rp to grab it.

[Kuzco]

The amount of silver is going down as money previously hoarded by purchase silver/wealth is slowly being flushed out of the system by non-economy purchases (like rumors, messengers, retools, phome expansions, buying from NPC stores etc).
While I *love* that freemen have to struggle more to make ends meet, I 100% agree with Voxumo. The current prices on stuff are based on silver inflation and availability from purchases, and the current income is not. There needs to be a logical and fair adjustment IMHO.

[Voxumo]

While I get where you are coming from Puciek, and agree with certain points of what you've said, the fact remains our current market values are based around a system where silver was able to be obtained in abundance. Our currency system is no longer based around that method, and as such the game's economy also needs to have it's rates based on the current system, not based on the prior system. No one's expecting silver to be as devalued as it was previously, but instead seeking it's value to be in line with the current supply and availability of silver. This is a change that will require code and mentality changes.

Also realism is fine and dandy, but this is a game and it's priority should be enjoyment over realism.

But what part of fun does it prohibit? I mean if you want someone without money troubles play gentry, as the very difference between freemen and gentry is the size of bank account. And when weighing silver available I still see, in the limited part of the grid I see, insane sums being tossed around frivolously, so I would say that there is plenty to go around, just have to rp to grab it.

The part where the "Casual" player is at such a disadvantage compared to the players who spend 24+ hours on the game a week. According to activity, the most active player is currently spending more hours on the game than the average 40 hour work week. Now there is nothing wrong with that, don't take this as an attack, but the casual player doesn't typically have the time to grind. I mean even modern games typically have a side system in place for those who just don't have the same time as others to grind. TI doesn't have such a system, as such "intense" grinding shouldn't be the main focus of our systems. Most don't want to spend what limited time they have grinding.

And I have nothing against grinding and putting work towards what you want, I just feel there needs to be a balance. The average player is not going to be keen on spending several OOC months just to afford one costly purchase. They likely already do that enough in real life.