It looks like, after some time, the guildskills being opened to cost 4x more has not been effective. Also, the change in costs for skill ranks seems to have slowed down progression to where players are waiting a long time to advance skills due to XP costs.
These two topics are going to be major topics at tomorrow's OOC Chat, but if we can get a player poll and some comments, especially from anyone who cannot attend, please discuss your thoughts here.
Note: We know this topic can fire people up, so please remember we're an OOC community trying to address an issue together, not attacking one another over differing views. Thanks!
Guildskills
Also, some issues to discuss:
- Leaving a guild can create an XP debt, even though staff are willing to lower skills to accomodate
- Should the game enforce thematic guildskill authority to guilds? Are there other worthwhile ways to address this than with XP?
- Leaving a guild can create an XP debt, even though staff are willing to lower skills to accomodate
- Should the game enforce thematic guildskill authority to guilds? Are there other worthwhile ways to address this than with XP?
If we're talking an absolutely ideal setup for me, this is how I'd do it:
Guildskills normal progression to rank 36. After all, it shouldn't take terribly specialized lessons/resources to get fairly solid at a skill. It's when you want to become a true expert that you need resources or you'll find it slow and difficult going.
Above 36, the skill will cost you 3x (instead of the current 4x) each rank.
However:
Add a flag that recognizes all the guilds a player has EVER been in. If you were ever in the guild your guildskills are for, it's 2x cost instead of 3x.
The 2x still discourages people from joining a guild just for the guildskills, and reflects the fact that after you leave the guild, it may have been easier to learn, but it's gonna be hard to keep up your specialized expert skill (above rank 36!) without the guild's resources.
Guildskills normal progression to rank 36. After all, it shouldn't take terribly specialized lessons/resources to get fairly solid at a skill. It's when you want to become a true expert that you need resources or you'll find it slow and difficult going.
Above 36, the skill will cost you 3x (instead of the current 4x) each rank.
However:
Add a flag that recognizes all the guilds a player has EVER been in. If you were ever in the guild your guildskills are for, it's 2x cost instead of 3x.
The 2x still discourages people from joining a guild just for the guildskills, and reflects the fact that after you leave the guild, it may have been easier to learn, but it's gonna be hard to keep up your specialized expert skill (above rank 36!) without the guild's resources.
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Onyxsoulle
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- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:46 pm
Okay I submitted a post but it apparently disappeared into the aether.
Essentially agreeing with Dice; normal xp cost till 36, then 4x cost(think that's what it's at now) if you continue learning the skill past that and don't join a guild.
Essentially agreeing with Dice; normal xp cost till 36, then 4x cost(think that's what it's at now) if you continue learning the skill past that and don't join a guild.
I'm more concerned about the addition/removal of rpxp that occurs at the joining and leaving/kicking from a guild.
Arrival:
I personally don't agree with awarding back the rpxp spent by an unguilded person on a guild skill when they join that guild. man that sounds pretty complicated. Example: A person spends 4000 rpxp on a guild skill, if they eventually join said guild the skill belongs to n their induction they are refunded 3000xp. In my opinion, the discount of rpxp when learning skill should represent training undertaken with the guild itself.
Leaving/being kicked:
You have one guildskill worked up to grandmaster. The minimum hit to your rpxp if you leave of get kicked is 70800. As someone who's character progression was going to leave me in this position I can comfortably say for now, it has been arrested due to the massive gravity and effort it will take to recouperate that and plus some. Unfortunately for a while, in my opinion, alts will be a no go because of the intitial rpxp drain used to set them up and get them settled as something in Lithmore. I liquidated what I had instead in hopes to get a bit of bonus rpxp to help with this problem.
I also think that because of the magnitude of the rpxp hit, Guildleaders in the future may hold back from kicking a truly kick-deserving person just because of OOC rpxp considerations.
I think at the moment all the problems I have with it basically boils down to how skills and rpxp amounts interact with each other currently. At the moment, (to my understanding), You accumulate a grand total of rpxp over your playing time and the skills you know and your guild flags are checked against it. The maths is done and you're left with a total of rpxp (either neg or pos).
Someone posted somewhere about implementing flags on your pfile for guilds that you have been in previously to have only a x2xp cost and I think this would be a great implement. It doesn't address the point about arrival but it does the second. If guild hopping is a worry perhaps only allow a person to only ever have 2 current, 1 previous guild flags? If a person wants to change to a different guild for the 4th time it can be arranged by QP and staff tweaking. Should limit
Arrival:
I personally don't agree with awarding back the rpxp spent by an unguilded person on a guild skill when they join that guild. man that sounds pretty complicated. Example: A person spends 4000 rpxp on a guild skill, if they eventually join said guild the skill belongs to n their induction they are refunded 3000xp. In my opinion, the discount of rpxp when learning skill should represent training undertaken with the guild itself.
Leaving/being kicked:
You have one guildskill worked up to grandmaster. The minimum hit to your rpxp if you leave of get kicked is 70800. As someone who's character progression was going to leave me in this position I can comfortably say for now, it has been arrested due to the massive gravity and effort it will take to recouperate that and plus some. Unfortunately for a while, in my opinion, alts will be a no go because of the intitial rpxp drain used to set them up and get them settled as something in Lithmore. I liquidated what I had instead in hopes to get a bit of bonus rpxp to help with this problem.
I also think that because of the magnitude of the rpxp hit, Guildleaders in the future may hold back from kicking a truly kick-deserving person just because of OOC rpxp considerations.
I think at the moment all the problems I have with it basically boils down to how skills and rpxp amounts interact with each other currently. At the moment, (to my understanding), You accumulate a grand total of rpxp over your playing time and the skills you know and your guild flags are checked against it. The maths is done and you're left with a total of rpxp (either neg or pos).
Someone posted somewhere about implementing flags on your pfile for guilds that you have been in previously to have only a x2xp cost and I think this would be a great implement. It doesn't address the point about arrival but it does the second. If guild hopping is a worry perhaps only allow a person to only ever have 2 current, 1 previous guild flags? If a person wants to change to a different guild for the 4th time it can be arranged by QP and staff tweaking. Should limit
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Voxumo
- Posts: 655
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I honestly like option 3. But i believe that guild skills should only be learned up to rank 36. Like if you are in the guild you can learn past rank 36 but otherwise you are stuck at rank 36 for all time unless you join the guild
Lurks the Forums
I don't know that I think that it's really reasonable to put stringest restrictions on guildskills. There are times where people need those skills coming into the game to be properly prepared to join certain guilds (I'm specifically thinking of the bards and, to a lesser degree, the thieves here on this one). There are also a lot of those guildskills that, to be quite honest, it doesn't fit logically that one couldn't pick up a little bit in the back story.
A good example would be the thief guild skills. There are certain skills, like lockpicking, sneaking, that sort of thing, that it's totally unreasonable to think that somebody of a thiefy nature wouldn't already have at least some kind of skill in. No, they probably wouldn't have that expertise in it, and they probably wouldn't have all of the skills, but they would probably have one or two. Also, initiation tests/interviews for the bards and the thieves exist. You've got to have something to show them.
Maybe a compromise? Guildskills can only be purchased outside of the guild in chargen? Guildskills can only be purchased with an explanation within one's backstory?
A good example would be the thief guild skills. There are certain skills, like lockpicking, sneaking, that sort of thing, that it's totally unreasonable to think that somebody of a thiefy nature wouldn't already have at least some kind of skill in. No, they probably wouldn't have that expertise in it, and they probably wouldn't have all of the skills, but they would probably have one or two. Also, initiation tests/interviews for the bards and the thieves exist. You've got to have something to show them.
Maybe a compromise? Guildskills can only be purchased outside of the guild in chargen? Guildskills can only be purchased with an explanation within one's backstory?
Generally speaking, I think that the penalty rates on opened guildskills was a failure. Building complexity to cover that failure doesn't strike me as a good solution, but do understand that I personally do not want to be rid of guildskills, nor do I like the amount of coding time spent on building that complexity (which will have to be maintained and get ugly for later skill changes) to preserve the whole guildskills open outside of guilds model.
My outstanding would be to return to a max cap of 36 on guildskills without a teacher, no penalty rates anywhere. I'd let people who advanced beyond their current guild allowances keep what they have as a grandfather and refund them the penalty XP.
Happy to continue reading other people's opinions though.
My outstanding would be to return to a max cap of 36 on guildskills without a teacher, no penalty rates anywhere. I'd let people who advanced beyond their current guild allowances keep what they have as a grandfather and refund them the penalty XP.
Happy to continue reading other people's opinions though.
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