ti-legacy.com

Some idle chatter today gave me an idea for a potential helpfile/FAQ to answer more specific, oft-debated questions of technology. Just a simple list, "Do we have..." and a lot of things, labeled yes or no - and then a second brief list of more open-ended questions.

What follows below is what I think the answers would be and why. What do other people think? Any of these answers debatable, or should something else be added?

Do we have...

Medical technology:
Eyeglasses: yes (recent invention; because it’s new, not bifocals, not
microscopes, etc.)
Tourniquets: yes (according to Handbook I wrote which was accepted by staff)
Infection: understood as ‘corruption of the humors’ (Handbook)
Contagion: understood as ‘corruption of the air’; (real medieval theory which fits
nicely)
Cauterization: yes (Handbook)
Trepanation: yes (Handbook)
Autopsies/dissection: yes (performed in RP; performed in IRL starting late 1200s)
Humoral theory: yes (in helpfiles, in RP, everywhere, etc.)
Anesthesia: not really; some herbalism concoctions are close (concoct list)
Wheelchairs: no (we don’t really see these til 1600s; a litter feels more thematic to
me)
Stethoscopes: no (not even til 1800s, and ICly we’d have no idea what to do with
them in terms of detecting irregularities)
Germ theory: no (humoral theory instead; germ theory is 1800s+)
Understanding of anatomy: very rudimentary (not much learned til 1600s)

Fashion:
Buttons: yes (about the right time frame and solidly in RP)
Cravats: yes (help vandagan fashion; we seem to go to about 1700 in fashion)
Waistcoats: yes (also vandagan)
Mantuas: yes (this is 1700 or so, so at the very end of the period we seem to go
with, but they look very period-correct and are mega stylish, so why not?
Corsets: yes, generally worn as underclothes (the sort you see at Renfaires today
worn atop a dress are not remotely period, but I figure people can get away with it
– let’s not sweat the small stuff, right?)
Garters (to hold up stockings): yes, definitely not elastic (common in Tudor times,
especially for men, and with Lithmore’s focus on hose/stockings...)
Bustles: no (1800s – rather too late)
Zippers: no (not until 1850!)
Top hats: no (also more 1800s)

Combat:
Stirrups: Yes (since 1200 or so)
Plate armor: Yes (later 1400s but clearly settled in TI theme)
Spurs: yes (clearly settled in theme; 1200s or so)
Trebuchets/catapults: yes (medieval classic)
Ballista: no (see crossbows as for why; also ballistas were so complex they were
scarce once the trebuchet/catapult was around)
Cannons: no (no gunpowder)
Firearms: no (no gunpower)
Crossbows: No (note: timewise, we could definitely have these, but given that I
don’t recall ever seeing them in TI, and the fact they might necessitate a whole
different ranged combat system, I think I feel it’d be better to say we just never
got crossbows/ballistas because Urth not Earth!)

Misc:
Mirrors: yes (on-grid)
Chess: yes (on-grid)
Hourglasses: yes (time-appropriate, have been on grid before)
Compass: yes (never seen these on grid but time-appropriate, 1200s)
Illuminated manuscripts: yes (both time-appropriate and on grid)
Paper: yes (on grid)
Oil lamps: yes (on grid)
Horse-drawn carriages: yes (time-appropriate, at least in SOME form)
Printing press: no (books are too expensive, this is on the later end of the
timeframe too)
Harpsichords: no (we have the psaltery on-grid, and the psaltery is its ancestor)

What sort of _________ do we have?

Teabags: no, loose leaf tea and straining spoons (teabags are like 1900!)

Writing utensils: quill pens with separate inkwells/paper-wrapped charcoal/chalk, not pencils, fountain pens, etc. Graphite wasn’t really around back then for pencils.

Animal breeding: loosely defined breeds for different purposes, not perfect pedigrees as today. Probably we can let people play fast and loose with this, though.

Dental care: wine washes and chewing mint leaves/other spices; no toothbrushes. Historically seems accurate and most common approaches back in those days. There were also sage/salt scrubs and other things.

Clocks: only water clocks, hourglasses, and sundials. We COULD get by with the earliest mechanical clocks but they’ve never had a strong presence in TI.

This is a great thread.

I think I was part of the conversation that sparked this post. For the most part I agree with it. There is essentially one item that I don't agree with though, and that is the wheelchair thing.

Now to be clear, I'll state what I mean when I'm talking about a wheelchair.

A chair/throne-like object with 4 wheels that has handles on the back of the chair to be pushed by someone else.

I do -not- mean the modern wheelchairs with the big 'driving' wheels and the two small wheels up front that can be used by the person sitting in it.

For the most part, old style wheel chairs were not in Europe until like the 16-1700s(think I remembered that right). However, there was mention of some sort of similar contraption in Germany as early as the 1200's.

So that get's the historical stuff out of the way, let's get down to the realistic part.

We agree that wagons exist. It would not take much for a woodworker (of almost any degree of skill) to turn a chair into a 'wagon'. I'm not saying it will have wobbly wheels for directionals, or that it would be easy to use. It would work GREAT on a smooth flat surface. But put the thing on cobbled/dirt/rocky roads, and you have a different problem altogether.

So I disagree that we wouldn't have wheelchairs altogether, we should be able to have a rudimentary wheelchair.

I honestly think we need to have a meeting day to go through all the technology we actually do have and nix what wouldn't be for real.

As fun as they may seem, spectacles seem a bit advanced for us. Advanced surgery would be a definite no-no. Plumbing we kind of overlook because no one really wants to rp about the midden heap.

There are my thoughts,

Just some comments that came to mind after reading Onyxsoulle's response:

We have middens and privy chambers in game but (as with most games) we don't devote much time to RP about them and they often get overlooked in building because, yes, not much RP going on there. We do, however, have working fountains and a large sewer system, and I always read it like Old Lithmore was not so advanced which is why it sank. In other words, Lithmorrans learned from their mistakes and developed better plumbing.

There was a character - she may still exist - who RPed being pushed around in a wheeled chair. We do have push carts and such so I don't think it's a huge stretch to allow for those to exist, with the understanding that they're not smooth rides at all.

Spectacles are in game because we wanted them and chose them as a focus in a quest. I'm not terribly bothered by being more advanced in one area than another, regardless of how and when things were invented in Real Life because for me it's about having fun first.

I feel like we're losing out majorly on the potential coolness of litters if we make wheelchairs theme, but ultimately, this isn't something I care about enough to argue!

Actual in-room chats for long lists of things tend to drag on and on; I definitely prefer the forums for this kinda discussion myself.

As Inertia says, spectacles came about in an in-game quest, and plumbing is too heavily present to be lost now - though I imagine we don't have toilets, fancy baths are too established, as well as all sorts of crazy fountains.

Re: indoor plumbing - I think there's a bit of Reconquista / Andalusia Spain in our theme too. IE we've been influenced by our more technologically advanced neighbours, both in terms of geography (the Daravi) and history (pre-Consolidation Lithmore and Tubor). It also fits in quite neatly with the Order's association (both before and after Dav) with waterworks (springs, fountains, so on).

Distillation is another anachronism in the game by the way. I think it's a sensible one too, probably derived from magical experiments. The historical use of magic in Urth can explain the lack of sophisticated ballistae and crossbows too IMHO.

People are always asking about what is theme and what isn't. It is nice to see someone take the time to jot down what has been confirmed to them.

I think we need Litters too.. I want to see some rich gentry woman use one for her travel around the city rather than a horse. *grin*

I think both wheelchairs and litters would be thematic - but a poor disabled person wouldn't be carried around in a litter, that's definitely a status/wealth thing.

I have a feeling that, while wheelchairs might be thematic, they might well be indoor items. Most of our streets seem to be cobblestones, and chairs with wheels aren't really that graceful or stable-- I don't see them as being particularly safe items, unless the person were being pushed around in it constantly by someone else.

This thread is brought back from the dead due to today's OOC Chat to discuss what is thematic and not when it comes to our technology.

I'm reviewing this and updating HELP TECHNOLOGY.