Physicians oppose Infrastructure?

[LonelyNeptune]

With the new metrics thing, each guild now has a second metric which they oppose. Apparently Physicians are supposed to oppose Infrastructure. I find that a bit awkward to roleplay out because historically good infrastructure (sewers, etc.) have been good for health! I was wondering if we could get it changed to a different metric? I could find good reasons for the Physicians to oppose a number of other metrics.

Economics - Physicians benefit from their monopoly over medicinal goods and a reduced ability for merchants to undercut and work around them.
Piety - A reduced presence from the Holy Order might allow Physicians to conduct experiments for the natural sciences unopposed and handle bodies as they wish?
Class Relations, Race Relations, Morale - I can't really think of anything here but the Physicians would be ambivalent to these metrics, making them more suitable than Infrastructure at least. If there are clashes with other guild metric assignments that make the above suggestions impossible, these ones would be OK.

Thoughts on this? Do any of the other guilds have metric assignments that they feel don't quite fit?

[-+[-__-]+-]

Responding with the assumption that staff did their best to balance options and make sure all metrics had incentives for supporting and subverting, my take on Physicians opposing Infrastructure is that backed up sewage and cruddy roads brings in money by sending more sick and injured into the hospital.

Since a guild's influence over metrics is, bottom line, about bringing in money, I think Infrastructure fits better than the other options suggested thus far.

[LonelyNeptune]

By that logic, Physicians would benefit from low Health instead of high Health.

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

I think the wording in CITY REPORT is probably a bit misleading and/or confusing in that it presumes the guild has to be "against" something. The Physicians don't oppose good infrastructure, they simply make more money from bad infrastructure. That's all that line means, as I understand it. I don't think supporting health takes away from infrastructure specifically, nor does subverting infrastructure impact health in any special way.

So really, I would just treat the line in city report as two POTENTIAL options for support or subvert, which would both benefit the guild. This allows more options for aligning one's personal interests (assets) with guild interests.

As per the helpfile, subverting another metric can simply mean diverting attention away from that metric as a way to spread support across the rest. It doesn't have to be seen as something sinister (unless your reasons for subverting are, indeed, sinister).

[Kuzco]

I can't wrap my head around Bards benefitting from a low Health. Maybe... I don't know, Piety? But Health?

[Rothgar]

I'm just as confused as you are - Merchants are meant to subvert Class Relations, which seems to be in direct opposition to any sort of logical business dealings I've ever seen. That an overwhelming majority of your workers would be Freemen, and a great many of your investors or buyers would be Nobles or Gentry, means that you're actively working against yourself in order to... What, support economics? This is doubly confusing, as - as a guildleader - you're involuntarily made Gentry, which means that you're quite literally working against yourself in some vague effort to achieve something to do with profits by making it so that less people can buy less things.

I feel like it'd make much more sense to devalue race relations as a Merchant, as then no one would raise an eyebrow if you put a few smelly, horrid Hillmen to work in the factories for the good of the nation, or if a few Tubori went missing because of a few all-nighter shifts in front of the forge.

[-+[-__-]+-]

Can we get the whole list of who does what together? So far I think they can all make sense but I'd rather look at the entire list to see if there's a potentially more intuitive list versus poking at it one one one.

Code: Select all

ORG           SUPPORTS        OPPOSES
Thieves       Class relations Lawfulness
Order         Piety           Morale
Merchants     Economics       Class Relations
Troubadours   Morale          Health
Reeves        Lawfulness      Race relations
Physicians    Health          Infrastructure
Council       Infrastructure  Economics
Mages?                        Piety

Edited x2to add missing info, thank you!

[Starstarfish]

The Council supports Infrastructure, and opposes Economics.

Update: Have heard that the Order opposes Morale.

And ... Reeves oppose Race Relations.

[Rothgar]

I want to bump this for attention because it's something that's genuinely affecting me IC'ly, and I'm having to invent reasons for why it makes sense when it really obviously doesn't make sense for me or my guild.

[Starstarfish]

The knowledge that it can be in your best interest to let another metric "tank" and you'd benefit arguably works a reward for political apathy into the system. When doing so might benefit you personally financially but cost the rest of the grid something collectively.