From today's battle, here's some playtesting results/comments/bugs for
staff to troll through and determine what to patch up and how:
- "First One. Can only major wounds prevent eating? I have a scratch that
yes, is bleeding, but it's 'an insignificant scratch' and I am too
nauseous to eat from it."
- Can't use fortan on yourself, even if you have a lit pipe in your inv
- Fortan probably needs more than one dose too
- "Then there's that AOE darkness spell. Which, as far as I can tell, is
an auto-blindness on everyone spell, except maybe the caster.. Or..
Mages. I don't know. But fortan does nothing agianst it."
- "The sanc wasn't.. Horrible. Maybe. Or maybe the crash removed it from
them and that's why it didn't seem so bad. But I don't know. It seemed
to last a fairly long time. O_O and negates everything, while they're
able to go hog wild on you with mattacks."
- "If it was a purely defensive spell, or a spell that reduced damage by a
percentage, rather than nulling damage, I wouldn't mind how long it
lasts."
- thinking Aura works fine, but needs a cap on the amount of damage it can
take before exploding (yes, people, those objects explode afterawhile)
- "Evoking in a combat room looks like it might be bugged, even if you're
not being attacked"
- evoking when at high stamina seems to block evoke release or clrcmding
- give fire a cure blind spell
- "Oh, another thing that I think is a bug. You cannot hold an item while
in combat, but you can swap weapons. I'd say let people do none or both,
probably."
- Due to a concern about people fleeing and returning to cast, it may be
worthwhile to put some sort of delay on casting or somehow determine
how else this could be handled, or if we do think it's twinking or not.
Players, please feel free to add to this list. Thank you for your help in improving the game!
Debrief - Invasion Finale & Palace Battle
- I wasn't able to spit Mehylen to another person. not sure if this is a bug with the herb or the spit code itself.
Various treat stuff we're already talking about but just so others have idea on what's occurring :
- Cooling burn salves were one application per jar. Kinaed says this has been fixed already.
- With two people treating the same wound it become a bit messy as you have to repeatedly SHOW after the other person did something. Talks are in progress if to people are working on the same wound the other person will get a not on what location was treated and if it was sucessful or not.
- Cold wounds seem to have been buggy.
That's all I can remember for now
Various treat stuff we're already talking about but just so others have idea on what's occurring :
- Cooling burn salves were one application per jar. Kinaed says this has been fixed already.
- With two people treating the same wound it become a bit messy as you have to repeatedly SHOW after the other person did something. Talks are in progress if to people are working on the same wound the other person will get a not on what location was treated and if it was sucessful or not.
- Cold wounds seem to have been buggy.
That's all I can remember for now
Thanks!
Salves should be fixed, let me know in game asap if not.
Cold wounds should be fixed.
I've got messages up for Az to give to other doctors, but, um... you formatted them in your reply. I'll have to fix that :)
Anyone else? Staff will be discussing the above list in the next couple of days.
Once again, thanks for the feedback.
Salves should be fixed, let me know in game asap if not.
Cold wounds should be fixed.
I've got messages up for Az to give to other doctors, but, um... you formatted them in your reply. I'll have to fix that :)
Anyone else? Staff will be discussing the above list in the next couple of days.
Once again, thanks for the feedback.
- one thing that messed up our non-mattacking people is 'approach/advance' wouldn't stop you at your weapon's optimum range.
(I'm thinking approach should take you to adjacent range, advance should stop at your primary weapon's optimum range)
(I'm thinking approach should take you to adjacent range, advance should stop at your primary weapon's optimum range)
My only feedback is that I don't really like the way arrest currently works. It doesn't make any sense realistically for a person to be under the "arrest" affect and cuffed with all of the restrictions that go with that (no sleeping, no leaving the room, etc) when their captor flees the room. I'd prefer it be timer based perhaps? For example, the captor has to acknowledge a prompt from the game every X minutes to keep the victim under arrest and can only do so from the same room.
I had two people come into the room and RP attempting to break my bonds and sat there for literally 2 RL hours twiddling my thumbs when in reality I should have had the ability to walk away.
I did get a little miffed with the lack of actual RP and the mild twinking on both sides but that is what happens when we get a bunch of people together that are unaccustomed to large RP scenes and that aren't the most skilled with the magic / traditional attack systems. To those of you that I might have snapped at, I apologize.
--The Former Brent ;)
I had two people come into the room and RP attempting to break my bonds and sat there for literally 2 RL hours twiddling my thumbs when in reality I should have had the ability to walk away.
I did get a little miffed with the lack of actual RP and the mild twinking on both sides but that is what happens when we get a bunch of people together that are unaccustomed to large RP scenes and that aren't the most skilled with the magic / traditional attack systems. To those of you that I might have snapped at, I apologize.
--The Former Brent ;)
Thanks for the feedback!
The 'arrested' flag is supposed to mean you're manacled. I suppose it should allow you to walk around if your restraints are "left" lying around - albeit I think the idea is that your manacles are chained to something, like being handcuffed to a bedpost (we may need to update messages to reflect this or consider allowing arrested people to run around if someone drops their restraints). Sleeping and resting should probably be allowed.
Your friends RPing 'rescuing you' could have just picked up your restraints and walked away with you. The big issue would be unlocking them to get them off you once you were somewhere safe (which has been done via RPA before), so that strikes me as not knowing the code. I think it makes sense that people RPing trying to unlock secured manacles on you without the key might have issues.
Anyway, this is officially added to the list for the staff to discuss. Thanks again for bringing it up for review!
The 'arrested' flag is supposed to mean you're manacled. I suppose it should allow you to walk around if your restraints are "left" lying around - albeit I think the idea is that your manacles are chained to something, like being handcuffed to a bedpost (we may need to update messages to reflect this or consider allowing arrested people to run around if someone drops their restraints). Sleeping and resting should probably be allowed.
Your friends RPing 'rescuing you' could have just picked up your restraints and walked away with you. The big issue would be unlocking them to get them off you once you were somewhere safe (which has been done via RPA before), so that strikes me as not knowing the code. I think it makes sense that people RPing trying to unlock secured manacles on you without the key might have issues.
Anyway, this is officially added to the list for the staff to discuss. Thanks again for bringing it up for review!
- People not in combat can act at full speed, whilst people in combat are forced into a waiting, turn-order system. This gives people who are not in combat an advantage.
(Specifically raised with people casting spells, but it was also an issue in Julea's PKill where people could attempt to arrest her, etc, before she could respond because she was in combat with a mob)
(Specifically raised with people casting spells, but it was also an issue in Julea's PKill where people could attempt to arrest her, etc, before she could respond because she was in combat with a mob)
On the blindness issue, I feel that it impairs you a bit too much in combat and too little in running away. You can't attack _at all_ while blind. At the very least you'd think you could flail around like an idiot hitting random people and objects. I do think blindness should be impairing, but not totally ruling out any hope of fighting back. It can last a bit long too.
I feel it's a bit too easy to just run away while blind. I challenge anyone who isn't blind to make their away across a city with their eyes closed and without getting lost or hit by something....
That's my 2 cents.
I feel it's a bit too easy to just run away while blind. I challenge anyone who isn't blind to make their away across a city with their eyes closed and without getting lost or hit by something....
That's my 2 cents.
My thoughts:-
Blind doesn't feel balanced. Perhaps it should last a shorter amount of time? Even at one or two combat rounds it could be quite crippling. Certainly it should be harder to flee when blinded.
I'm not sure of the name of the spell but the one where the whole room becomes 'dark', that too seems to last a very long time? I don't know the specifics on how it works or how easy/hard it is to cast, but it seemed relatively easy to have it on several rooms in the palace and no way I think to remove it?
The sanctuary/aura spell I think it was called, seemed way too strong. As others have said, possibly reduction of damage rather a full prevention, possibly based on level of the caster?
Fleeing still seems very easy even with a large number of combatants fighting a person?
Perhaps a timer after exiting combat till you can cast or do certain combat critical things? Ideally keeping time with the actual combat exited, one full round of the combat before you can do something maybe?
Being able to use Fortran on yourself might of helped too
Blind doesn't feel balanced. Perhaps it should last a shorter amount of time? Even at one or two combat rounds it could be quite crippling. Certainly it should be harder to flee when blinded.
I'm not sure of the name of the spell but the one where the whole room becomes 'dark', that too seems to last a very long time? I don't know the specifics on how it works or how easy/hard it is to cast, but it seemed relatively easy to have it on several rooms in the palace and no way I think to remove it?
The sanctuary/aura spell I think it was called, seemed way too strong. As others have said, possibly reduction of damage rather a full prevention, possibly based on level of the caster?
Fleeing still seems very easy even with a large number of combatants fighting a person?
Perhaps a timer after exiting combat till you can cast or do certain combat critical things? Ideally keeping time with the actual combat exited, one full round of the combat before you can do something maybe?
Being able to use Fortran on yourself might of helped too
Julea/Lien/Ashe/Adaline
I think if the only lesson taken away from the quest was "nerf the mages", we've got problems. It seems like this is kind of cyclic -- like we go through times where people acknowledge magic is distinctly lacking, and then times where people are in outrage. It seems to me that the outrage is almost entirely correlated with the times when mages actually band together and do something. That's probably just a perception on my part, but there you have it.
Before anything in magic is changed too much, I would caution that the quest included archmage NPCs with maximum skill in every moon/element combination, and thus all of the associated spells. "Real" PC mages in practice never have anything of the sort... which is why you never see mages storming the castle.
Also note, that while staff 'debuffing' of mage spells (blind, etc) was required, the PCs did still win. It was close, but they won. Ask yourself this: if the mages hadn't been able to darken the room/blind people (which, by the way, the mages WERE banned from blinding people), if they had not had a spell sheltering them from damage, what would have happened? Would it have been as close, or even close at all? And, however it would've turned out, would that fit TI's mythos? I.e., what is the expectation for when players face a band of true archmages (archmages of the caliber the system is designed to prevent PCs from playing)? Should the fight seem fair? What kind of game do people want to be playing?
I think a bigger issue to address, but one that probably won't be because it's a lot harder to deal with than a few lines of code, would be the player culture regarding RP. I acknowledge that this is a game, and on many games the main feature is that they transform the protagonist into "the hero". On a non-consensual RP game, however, not everyone can be the hero. Not everyone can always win. You can't reset when you lose and try again, either. The point of a non-consensual RP game is story -- i.e., you don't play your character to win, you play to see what happens.
To the extent that the above criticisms of the magic system do not allow one to tell a story, I understand where players are coming from. But I also didn't see folks really trying to tell a story (aside from a couple, who know who they are). The quest started, magic happened, people bitched. The story could have been the terror and trials of facing an overwhelming foe, for instance. It could've been character building, but that's not the general vibe I got from participants (on either side, really). What I saw were players refusing to emote so combatants could not take their turns, logging out, fleeing to rooms and EATING to regenerate, then coming back to fight without emoting anything other than repetitive combat emotes, griping to staff, etc.
In my time on TI:Legacy, I have been a part of two large, staff-assisted quest events that pit one group of players against another. Both of them ended with the same kind of tantrum-throwing and whining by the players. In both instances staff had to remind folks how to act and the effort that these kinds of quests take. I'm not saying my analysis really gets to the heart of the problem, but I will say that THESE behaviors are the real issue, not the code. Like I said, the code problems are easy.
Before anything in magic is changed too much, I would caution that the quest included archmage NPCs with maximum skill in every moon/element combination, and thus all of the associated spells. "Real" PC mages in practice never have anything of the sort... which is why you never see mages storming the castle.
Also note, that while staff 'debuffing' of mage spells (blind, etc) was required, the PCs did still win. It was close, but they won. Ask yourself this: if the mages hadn't been able to darken the room/blind people (which, by the way, the mages WERE banned from blinding people), if they had not had a spell sheltering them from damage, what would have happened? Would it have been as close, or even close at all? And, however it would've turned out, would that fit TI's mythos? I.e., what is the expectation for when players face a band of true archmages (archmages of the caliber the system is designed to prevent PCs from playing)? Should the fight seem fair? What kind of game do people want to be playing?
I think a bigger issue to address, but one that probably won't be because it's a lot harder to deal with than a few lines of code, would be the player culture regarding RP. I acknowledge that this is a game, and on many games the main feature is that they transform the protagonist into "the hero". On a non-consensual RP game, however, not everyone can be the hero. Not everyone can always win. You can't reset when you lose and try again, either. The point of a non-consensual RP game is story -- i.e., you don't play your character to win, you play to see what happens.
To the extent that the above criticisms of the magic system do not allow one to tell a story, I understand where players are coming from. But I also didn't see folks really trying to tell a story (aside from a couple, who know who they are). The quest started, magic happened, people bitched. The story could have been the terror and trials of facing an overwhelming foe, for instance. It could've been character building, but that's not the general vibe I got from participants (on either side, really). What I saw were players refusing to emote so combatants could not take their turns, logging out, fleeing to rooms and EATING to regenerate, then coming back to fight without emoting anything other than repetitive combat emotes, griping to staff, etc.
In my time on TI:Legacy, I have been a part of two large, staff-assisted quest events that pit one group of players against another. Both of them ended with the same kind of tantrum-throwing and whining by the players. In both instances staff had to remind folks how to act and the effort that these kinds of quests take. I'm not saying my analysis really gets to the heart of the problem, but I will say that THESE behaviors are the real issue, not the code. Like I said, the code problems are easy.
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