Guild Mergers! Downsizing! Outsourcing!

[Gavin]

Following the awesome decision to merge the Knights into the Order, which:

• - Reduced the burden of having 4 GLs to 2;
  - Formalized the link between TI's faith and the sword of that faith; and
  - Increased information sharing between the Knights and Order via consolidated helpfiles and guildnotes (both using the gnote command and through IC paperwork)

I propose doing the same, for strikingly similar reasons, between the Court and the Reeves.

The Reeves are meant to enforce the Monarch's laws, and the Justiciar serves at the pleasure of the Monarch as a Great Lord (though I'd suspect she's nominated by a council of Proconsuls). Much as the Knights are the Order's sword-arm, the Reeves are the Queen's handcuffs and mace. Moreover, the structure of the Reeves almost demands it, considering Magistrates are roving judges, juries, and executioners. In a sense, they're Little Monarchs, operating with a fraction of the Queen's power, when they hold trials and find criminals guilty.

Why is this also a good idea? It boosts information sharing. And it adds a role for the Reeves that goes beyond criminal catching, which is to formalize their role as secretaries, diplomats, and advisers to the nobility. Conversely, I could see the Knights adding lower-level clerical responsibilities to their plate.

This would make our law guilds different, enshrine the "Sheriff of Nottingham" approach to the constabulary, bless Reeve-Noble RP, and culminate a long plot-thread: look how many Justiciars either sat on the throne or beside it. :D

Anyone have thoughts on this, or might want to suggest other improvements (e.g., merging the Merchants and Physicians)?

[Lei]

So what you're saying is... Lei for Queen in '61?

Just jokes! This thought of yours, is definitely something worth contemplating, which is what I'm going to do for a while.

[Geras]

I thought lore-wise the Reeves were also very much the arm of "the people." They're the civil administration charged with promoting the overall well being of the common folk. Not sure that such a merger would make sense to me. If the Court only had 1 GL (or its second GL was an NPC controlled by the Imms) I don't think that would be the end of the world.

[Onyxsoulle]

Personally, I'm not for downsizing any more guilds. It made sense with the Knights since there was alot of overlapping and redundancy.

One idea I had recently(which is kind of in a similar vein as this) was to have the GL's of all of the guilds except the thieves, seek court. I mean just the 1st seat, not 2nd gl. This would give Court more people to rp with, and it actually makes total sense icly(since the 1st GL is supposed to be picked by the monarch for most positions. This would also allow players who are a GL be in a second guild(which got shut down recently) and make it a bit easier for the GL's to get into rooms that are supposed to be open to them in the castle but are closed since they are not in the Court.

I know this is kind of covered by the GL channel, but it was just a thought.

[Leech]

The monarchy is supposed to have a hand in the placement of GLs like the Justiciar and Earl Marshal, but in practice they rarely do, if at all. GLs are definitely able to seek court, but unless the former is going to change, I don't think it should be required.

As for the Reeve/Court merger, I like it - although I think the guild should be renamed to something more ambiguous. I don't want some dirty Proconsul crumming up my liege's fancy court table.

[Gavin]

I thought lore-wise the Reeves were also very much the arm of "the people." They're the civil administration charged with promoting the overall well being of the common folk. Not sure that such a merger would make sense to me. If the Court only had 1 GL (or its second GL was an NPC controlled by the Imms) I don't think that would be the end of the world.

Yeah, but this is the Divine Right of Kings, so to speak, and the law flows organically from the monarch, who determines what the law is. I don't buy the Reeves as a populist militia. They're very much Sheriffs of Nottingham, in my mind.

As for the Reeve/Court merger, I like it - although I think the guild should be renamed to something more ambiguous. I don't want some dirty Proconsul crumming up my liege's fancy court table.

I agree, but I can't think of anything that's not campy. I mean, it's basically the State, or Civil Society, but that doesn't translate well into a guild name.

As far as being "forced" to seek Court, I'd personally like to shy away from Court being a guild that's just there, with freebie positions that get you around xblocks (which probably shouldn't exist in the first place). What I mean is: I'd like the guild to be more active, and having the civil society/reevey component would be one way to do that.

[Dice]

I personally love this idea. Fewer guilds is better for the game, honestly. It means more players to each guild, which means more activity and a broader base of potential individuals to GL.

Not to mention, the Court/Reeves really parallels the Order/Knight. The Knights enforce sacred law for the Order, the Reeves enforce secular law for the Court. I think we should totally do this.

[Geras]

Yeah, but this is the Divine Right of Kings, so to speak, and the law flows organically from the monarch, who determines what the law is. I don't buy the Reeves as a populist militia. They're very much Sheriffs of Nottingham, in my mind.

Well they literally are Sheriffs. Sheriff just means Shire-Reeve. When Simon de Montford constituted the first parliament of England, it was the Sheriffs who administered the elections of the Knights of the Shires - the first elected representatives of the commoners who sat in Parliament. Here's what the Provisions of Oxford from 1258 said:

Concerning the sheriffs: — As sheriffs there shall be appointed loyal persons, good men who are landholders; so that in each county there shall be as sheriff a feudal tenant of the same county, who shall well, loyally, and justly treat the people of the county. And [it is ordered] that he shall take no fee; that he shall be sheriff for no more than a year in all; that during the year he shall render his accounts at the exchequer and be responsible for his term [of office]; that the king, from the royal income, shall make [allowance] to him in proportion to his receipts, so that he may rightly keep the county; and that he shall take no fees, neither he nor his bailiffs. And if they are convicted [of such wrongdoing], let them be punished. It should be remembered that, with regard to the Jewry and the wardens of the Jewry, such reforms are to be established as shall carry out the oath in this respect.

My understanding is that Reeves of various levels of authority were sometimes appointed by the feudal Lord, sometimes elected, sometimes a combination of both, but generally expected to enjoy the support of both Lord and people and to administer justly and fairly.

That's kind of tangential though. This is a game. I feel that the Reeves play an important and distinct role in the game that the Court does not. They draw far more of their leadership from lower classes than the Court, and rightly so. They are a path for lower born people with ambition to follow, and they are generally more in touch with the needs and concerns of the common folk than the Crown. Where the Knights lean aristocrat in their practices and worldview, the Reeves lean the opposite way. That doesn't mean that an aristocratic upbringing shouldn't be advantageous in advancing in the Reeves, but just that it shouldn't be as advantageous as it is in the Knights or court.

The Reeves as a guild are the most orientated towards the common folk. The Court is the least. Not only that, but the Reeves are in direct competition with the Order for authority and always have been. Tying the Reeves and Court more closely will only make it more likely that when that competition turns unfriendly things will go off the rails.

[Geras]

It also makes no sense whatsoever in terms of guild hierarchy. The Reeves are responsible to the Duke/Duchess of Lithmore, a title held personally be the Crown. While they treat other nobles with respect and deference and assisting when possible, Cellan is the Reeves' feudal lord, through her position as Duchess of Lithmore.

Would the Count of Lothos be hearing cases, changing patrol routes, overriding sentences? The Count of Lothos doesn't meddle in Lithmorran Reeves' affairs because the Count has his or her own Reeves back in Lothos to boss around. Our Reeves answer to someone else - Cellan.

If you merge the two guilds, you'd have two parallel and independent structures, each with only one thing in common - the person at the top. Frankly, this would just be confusing. It would also not be amenable to x-blocks/mob progs. And for what? What would it gain? If the Court guild isn't working out, I don't think inserting it into the Reeves will do much aside from screwing up the Reeves.

[Lei]

It it possible to get a voting poll added to this thread?