Regnancy Slots

[Rabek]

It came up today that Regnancy slots being tied to Fire/Arien skill has an unintended problem.

Namely that mages you Awaken are also bound by Regnancy, so anyone without Fire/Arien skill is restricted to one Awakened regnant at a time, and they'd have to break the bond (thus magically damaging both parties) to Awaken someone else.

The most popular proposed solution seemed to be to allow all elements (perhaps more specifically your main element) to earn more slots, with Fire skill providing a few extra bonus slots.

An alternative I wish to suggest could be allowing Fire skill to provide Regnancy slots (for the spell itself) and your primary element to provide Natural Regnancy slots, which only work for Awakening people.

Other ideas welcome.

[Another]

I had it in my head that every pair of magical skills (element and related moon) should provide regnancy slots at X total skill levels. Perhaps your native element/moon could provide an extra slot over the others. Perhaps Fire/Arien could provide yet another still.

[Jules]

I'm not sure I actually see this as a problem. Why shouldn't there be limitations to awakening and retaining one's hold over multiple mages?

An alternative solution (to giving people 'freebies') might be to prevent damage caused by breaking any link that is still tenuous, and making it more obvious during the awakening process that a link has been formed. Give the awakening mage a chance to break the link, risk free, before it solidifies into a real bond, maybe?

[Rabek]

Nobody is saying no limitation. But allowing Fire mages to Awaken and keep a hold on more witches than any other element seems like a decidedly unfair development. No other element gets a mechanical bonus like that. It is a decidedly 'grey' mechanic like Attunement that shouldn't be restricted to one element, given that they all engage in it.

[Jules]

Awakening other mages is risky business in general, and even with maxed out Fire, you're only looking at 4 possible regnants at a time, which means a fire mage would have to risk awakening 4 different mages, which is about as risky, if not riskier, than casting Regnancy on each one. Then, in order to maintain the bonds, one has to continue RPing with those individuals over time. So, again, while I understand the argument, I'm having a hard time seeing it as a major problem in practice, due to the potential risks involved.

There's nothing mechanical that prevents other mages from learning fire and taking advantage of the same 'bonus' -- just the number of fire mages around who are willing and able to teach other mages how to control blood magic and improve their ability to keep regnants.

I'm in favor of limiting everyone to 1 "awakened" regnant at any given time, including fire mages, if it's really perceived as a problem.

(Also, as a note: the awakening process and resulting bond is not a 'decidedly grey' mechanic -- at least not in description or theme. See the helpfile for 'help information Threshold of the Flesh,' and you'll note that there are three phases to the awakening process, the first being 'Barrier of the Blood.' At least in description, awakening is tied to blood, and blood magic is the purview of fire mages.)

[Dice]

To me, the biggest issue here is that there was literally NO limit before on number of awakened mages, and now there's a very stringent one. Anything that any mage can do, like awakening, does strike me as something that should be reasonably element-agnostic. I like the idea of having a set number of slots for awakened ones (a small number, maybe 3 tops? 1 at circle 1, 2 at circle 3, 3 at circle 5?) and then slots added to that for fire mages for regnants obtained in other fashions. The bonds are, to me, supposed to be different.

[Rabek]

I'm not sure I understand your rationale, Jules. Something is inherently risky and dangerous and therefore should be even more restricted with even less motive for doing it? And of course Awakening mechanics are grey. Every single witch can do it from the moment they're Awakened. There is no elemental affinity for Awakening, and the actual process of Awakening (i.e. using the command) is the Threshold of Flesh, not the Barrier of Blood, which is described as surpassing the body and becoming in tune with the five moons. Barrier of Blood is a prerequisite to that command, but Mages can't influence it at all. Fire or no. Only Sacrifice can do that.

As for Dice, spells improving with more skill has been done before like Auspex. Perhaps everyone gets Awakening slots as you suggested, then you get your first Regnancy slot when you learn Regnancy, with more slots gained as you approach GM in Fire/Arien. I don't think you intended it to come across that way, but only "Fire mages" getting it would make it a useless spell for others to learn. For the most part, though, I like your suggestion best, too.

[Zeita]

Couldn't something as simple as:

Earth mage A has already awakened newbmage B and thus has a 'natural' regnancy. When they try to awaken newbmage C they do so, but without a bond being placed? Limit the bond and decouple it from being strictly enforced upon awakening.

[Gerolf]

Edit: I was wrong so I am clearing this out so people don't duplicate my confusion

[Voxumo]

Couldn't something as simple as:

Earth mage A has already awakened newbmage B and thus has a 'natural' regnancy. When they try to awaken newbmage C they do so, but without a bond being placed? Limit the bond and decouple it from being strictly enforced upon awakening.

I quite like this option, though I'm also one who never uses the affects of awakening, mostly because my luck sucks when it comes to it. But I'm also against limiting the creation of new mages in anyway. Like it or not, awakening by another mage is typically the only way latents ever get awakened, and there was a time when mages didn't get autoawakened upon creation, so awakening was a much needed thing.

Hold on. Granted I am not very familiar with magic but I thought (I am going to use terms easier for me to understand, sorry) That if Adam awakens Betty, Betty is the puppet-master and Adam is the puppet.

So if that is true if Adam runs around and awakens Betty, Charlie, and Danny, wouldn't that make Adam subservient to three other mages? I am just trying to figure out how one person can thematically serve three masters.

Now if I have that whole thing bass-ackwards disregard and carry on.

You have it backwards Gerolf. Adam would be the puppet-master, not Betty. Also there is no guarantee that Adam will be able to force Betty to do anything using regnancy.