Astral Shops and Items

[Geras]

It's been a while since I played a mage (or RPed at all) so if this is a bit out of touch with the reality of the game currently forgive me. :3

So my idea is this: that you could magecraft items that once activated would appear in the astral and be functional there.

The one I would most like to see is the ability to create a player-owned shop in the Astral. It would be linked to a backroom on grid, and purchases made by you in the Astral would be drawn from your regular coin purse. Obviously it would require some code work, but I think it'd be ICly justified as one of the elements already has spells with similar mechanics.

Other items that I think would be neat to leave behind in the astral that interact with the mundane world would be stones that when activated let you either look in on or listen in on a given room.

There are a few ways they could be activated and limited as to avoid abuse. For stores, since they have limited capacity to harm people, I'd like them to be possible to set up without visiting or doing anything at the location in the mundane world, and I'd like them to persist for a long time. I think just having a cost comparable to a mundane shop would be balanced enough.

For something that involves spying or anything more nefarious, I think you should have to visit the spot in person. It could be as simple as hiding a small stone in Church Square that looks benign until you look closer and notice the runes scratched all over it. Something like that.

Anyways, thoughts?

I'd like really dangerous items in the astral to still be pretty limited (particularly traps against other mages - too many mages seem to love selling each other out for the IC motive of the evulz / the OOC motive of being a troll), but there may be some stuff that could be done there, like countermeasures to portals maybe?

[lkbalboa]

Currently one cannot even search for hidden exits in the astral, from what I remember. I think having a secret spot you can meet with other mages and communicate anonymously is already a huge thing, or having the ability to teleport out of strange situations. The only thing I remember that confused me about the astral is that closed doors block you from wandering about, which seems silly, since you can walk up into the air without a problem.

It also seems like this would remove the danger of meeting mages in the physical realm for anything meaningful, where they could kill you, or sell you out, or kidnap you, or you could be interrupted by knights or inquisitors or passer-by.

[Puciek]

After reading I asked myself what problem will this solve and I got nought. Yes, it would make it easier for non-manus mages to function, but mages are really not supposed to be easy or safe if they are active.

Same I don't really like the idea of astral interacting with the actual world - there are already many ways to spy as a mage, most of them very much risk-free, why would add yet another one? How would it be better to watch over from astral than the existing spells, like invisibility and some less known [spoiler]?

The doors blocking astral simply matter of balance afaik, it's an ability every mage posses and this would potentially override a lot of IC skills/spells if it ignored doors.

[Geras]

After reading I asked myself what problem will this solve and I got nought. Yes, it would make it easier for non-manus mages to function, but mages are really not supposed to be easy or safe if they are active.

I'd distinguish between "easier" and "fun." The social aspect of the game is what makes it fun. I'm just looking at it as a way to use the social aspect of the astral more. Trading goods (with still significant risk to the seller outside the astral) is one reason to be more social in the astral.

And I think it makes the astral cooler.

[Rabek]

Removing risk from Mages is bad for theme and bad for the game, in my opinion.

Some of the best, most fun RP I've had as a mage is when I decided to take a risk and meet with other mages I met through Astral or Auspex.

I'd vote a hard no to this.

Trade in person, not on the witch equivalent to ebay.

[Geras]

What risk is really lost here? If anything I think it would be giving people reasons to take more risks and be more social.

[Puciek]

What risk is really lost here? If anything I think it would be giving people reasons to take more risks and be more social.

Right now to trade items you have to meet on the grid, where you can run across someone, where you can be trailed by someone on sneak/hide, or just randomly ran into by a burglar in middle of your trade. When you do the same trading on astral the only risk you face is the turncoat mage, as even running into you on the grid will just see you meditating (which is not a suspicious activity). So i am not sure how will this not decrease risks as it moves the now risky operation to a much safer space. Even the turncoat mage actually will lose its power as unless you will leave your name in astral they cannot sell you out, while when trading on the grid they can capture you and deliver to the inquisition.

[Kinaed]

There's minimal interaction, not only because of balance, but for thematic reasons. The suggestions here would be counter to long established game physics and theme.

Thematically, the astral realm is made of energy, and the physical realm is made of matter. Doors repel astral beings in the same way astral beings cannot walk through walls.

[Geras]

On the physics point at least I'd argue there are clear counterexamples - particularly the portals in the Astral. You don't physically interact with the Astral, but there is still a connection between your avatar and your body that can affect and transport your body (and the objects carried on that body). I would think thematically that while the Astral doesn't interact with the physical, it does interact with the magical, and on the water element side there are spells that can transport objects. So thematically the explanation wouldn't be that the Astral is interacting with you physically, but rather that it is interacting with a water element spell that had been used to create this magecrafted object.

Besides, I think just having "cool" things for mages that aren't lethal to someone are the best thing possible for the theme.

Right now to trade items you have to meet on the grid, where you can run across someone, where you can be trailed by someone on sneak/hide, or just randomly ran into by a burglar in middle of your trade. When you do the same trading on astral the only risk you face is the turncoat mage, as even running into you on the grid will just see you meditating (which is not a suspicious activity). So i am not sure how will this not decrease risks as it moves the now risky operation to a much safer space. Even the turncoat mage actually will lose its power as unless you will leave your name in astral they cannot sell you out, while when trading on the grid they can capture you and deliver to the inquisition.

Contrast that with the relative security of trading within Manus though for example. That's much safer. I've put as much into Manus as anyone but I don't think it should be the be-all and end-all of mages' productive interaction.

Burglars disrupting your commerce and getting you killed would still very much be a risk. You would need to supply your backroom, and that backroom can be broken into. There's a lot of curious people in this game that like to explore every nook and cranny. Less risk for the customer sure, but not the vendor.

[Puciek]

Sure they can, but backrooms in the game can be more-or-less located on the store location itself. This backroom could be deep in someones phome as a hidden room in nondescript area, making it really impossible for a burglar to find.

This is of course nitpicking a bit and can be countered with implementation, but it's always been that if you want the safe-heaven for mages training - you join up with manus. Of course then if order busts into manus tower, or turns a mage onto them, they will likely wipe out the whole ongoing iteration - so when it goes down, it goes down big. And astral shops remove a lot of risk from non-manus mages, giving them very much a buff, which I don't think they need at all. It's supposed to be life full of risk, where you constantly have to evaluate who to trust and who not to trust. This just plain removes it, giving a safe-heaven marketplace for magic items.