Log of OOC Meeting - 06/15/19

[Sparkles]

Kinaed questions, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Truth pontificates, "I have a topic!"


Francesca claims, "I have a teeny tiny topic."


Kitty has a topic.


Kinaed says, "Got all three of you."


Kinaed questions, "Anyone else?"


Kuzco says, "Not me! I'm good."


Ethelon likes to sit back, for now.


Kuzco is delighted his breath is fresher for loooong now


Sparkles states, "I have something a tad small and a follow up if something raised at another meeting when on the staff docket."


Kinaed states, "Just a quick reminder - if you have registered a topic, please type it up now prior to being called upon so that you can introduce it pretty immediately."


Kinaed says, "On that, let's kick off Staff Updates."


Flower settles n listens.


Satoshi dozes as he listens.

Raspberries sits down and rests.


Kinaed says, "Last week, I did a few policy things, including reminding people that Discord is not a place for people to share IC information. And I just recently, right prior to this, discussed a few Staff Talking Points with staff (and will continue after this meeting)."


Sparkles wonders, "Was anything super noted decided?"


Kinaed states, "I still have Jail Automation on my desk, and I planned to absolutely do something about it this week, but I can't because I have to work from home today unexpectedly."


Temi claims, "Nothing interesting yet. Lots more to go."

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "We'll write a summary when we're done, though it's worth noting that for people who were requesting that cooking stuff be made available in-game, there apparently is in the Alms house already."


Kinaed states, "That's it for me - Az, you're up. "


Azarial claims, "I've been working on bugs, mainly; cleared a few typos and manage to annoy the compiler into giving me tens of pages of warnings that should be clearing up subtle odd behaviors in calculations across the board."


Kinaed states, "We did increase the length on rumor updates."


Francesca exclaims, "Hooray!"

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up "


Flower pontificates, "Yay!"


Temi states, "Hm... not much this week from me. Some plot stuff and helping folks out with requests and things."


Kuzco says, "Excellent"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed asks of Niamh, "Niamh?"


Niamh says, "Nothing super exciting from me this week! Did some testing of changes to try and keep up with Az, processed recommendations, built an uncanny number of lovely phomes, and worked through the typos board a couple of times."


Kinaed says, "Thanks team "


Kinaed asks, "Okay, next - Player Heartbeat! How was the game for everyone this week?"


Francesca says, "Niamh was a gem putting up with my shenanigans all week. Which should be commended."

Kinaed smiles at Francesca.

Niamh grins at Francesca.


Francesca claims, "And the game was great! Lots of great RP. No complaints here."

Kinaed smiles.


Tasker declares, "I'm writing up a new story to run! It's going to be a bit of a adventure dungeon crawl. A bunch of combat, investigation and more! "


Kinaed asks, "Glad to hear that. Anyone else have a similar or different experience they want to tell us about?"


Raspberries claims, "Been too busy to really play. I think next week might be a bit better"


Nysteesia states, "Lots of returning players, made for in interesting week of RP"


Niamh cheers at Tasker.


Ethelon says, "I returned to the game this week after two years and I'm really happy to have made room in my schedule to play again."


Kitty states, "I was half gone, but... what I've been here for has been good."

Kinaed declaims to Tasker, "That sounds awesome, thank you!"


Wimpled claims, "Missed you, Raspberries."


Flower states, "Been sooo busy. omg. "

Kinaed states to Ethelon, "Thank you for giving us another try - and we're glad to hear it's working out."


Galax declaims, "Slowly back into the swing of things after graduating. I've noticed a marked uptick in both volume and variety of RP lately, which is nice, so props to everyone from all different sides of the game for that!"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Satoshi states, "I've had a lot of fun RP with individuals, having a bit of a hard time telling whether someone is ignoring me or not, sad that I'm not meeting as many new people though"


Niamh cheers at galax too.

Kinaed comforts Satoshi.

Sparkles claims, "I was gone myself a bit this week, but did have a few interesting scenes."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Kinaed wonders, "Anything shitting anyone that's not a player topic already?"


Kitty muses, "How do you mean, having a hard time knwoing if someone is ignoring you? They aren't making it clear in emotes?"


Sunshine declaims, "How pretty!"

Satoshi says, "Uhhh our schedules don't match up well and my IC communications have either been vague to the point where I'm not sure they know it's me because I'm trying to be lowkey about it, or they're getting them and just not responding."

Kinaed muses to Satoshi, "Have you tried the Personal Board to ask?"


Kitty states, "Ahh... yes. pboard them."


Kinaed says, "You can also use it to arrange RP"


Satoshi pokes fingers together. "I don't wanna come off as desperate." He grins sheepishly.


Kitty states, "It's not desperate at all. People use it all the time to arrange RP."


Raspberries muses, "Yule's coming?"


Raspberries grumbles and opens up calendar editor.


Kinaed says, "I don't think it comes off as desparate to pboard someone and ask if they're free to RP on a certain date/time, etc"

Sunshine hugs and doesn't see anything wrong with arranging scenes.


Francesca exclaims, "YULE IS COMING!"

Kinaed nods at Sunshine.

Ethelon says, "From my watch, I always like when someone pokes me about RP. ICly, I sometimes struggle to make up reason to start off something, too."

Temi gives a drawstring coinpurse hanging on braided sunset-hued cords to SpaceJackal.

Kinaed nods at Francesca.


Booknerd states, "I actually didn't know that arranging scenes was alright either, as that isn't how a lot of games have allowed it. So, that is cool"


SpaceJackal exclaims, "Thank you!"


Flower doesnt intend to ignore anyone. Apologies if it is her.

Kinaed says to Booknerd, "It's okay on TI, yes."


Sunshine asks, "I would be happy if someone poked me for RP honestly. Maybe they are nervous and waiting on you?"


Temi claims, "By arranging scenes, we do mean planning times to meet up"


Booknerd says, "Yep"

Temi claims, "Not deciding how the RP itself will go down."


Satoshi claims, "I--maybe."

Kinaed nods at Temi.
Temi grins.

Francesca nods.


Booknerd claims, "That's what I meant =)"


Temi states, "Figured I'd just stem that off."

Temi grins.


Kinaed states, "Yeah, not 'arranging RP' as in 'We don't have to RP this scene out because we're both assuming X happened and you just know about it.""


Sunshine states, "RP MUST be random and character driven."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed states to Temi, "Good catch."

Kinaed nods.

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed questions, "We allow the use of the pboard to coordinate like "Hey, I'm looking to scene with you, are you available Monday at 6pm System?""


SpaceJackal states, "I would never assume anything happened RP-wise with my character... mostly because I am finding that he's quite unpredictable."

Kinaed nods at SpaceJackal.

Kinaed smiles.


Kuzco states, "I'm always glad when poked, and I appreciate the increase in people hiring bards to do bard things"

Kinaed says to Kuzco, "I'm glad to hear that's happening of late."


Galax says, "More likely than not, I think people enjoy being poked for RP, rather than annoyed."

Kinaed nods at galax.


Kitty claims, "In general, people like to want to be RP'd with."


Booknerd declaims, "Poke me!"


Sunshine exclaims, "Thats why we are here right? RP!"

Francesca says, "One would hope."

Kinaed smiles.

Kuzco states, "Such as private (but chaste!) performances, or making songs, or sharing intel. Or even representing people."

Temi gives a drawstring coinpurse hanging on braided sunset-hued cords to Brando.


Kinaed asks, "Shall we move on to Player Topics?"

Raspberries nods.


Ethelon claims, "No objections."

Kinaed states to Truth, "You can kick us off with your topic first. Please introduce us. "


Truth says, "I am on my phone so apostrophes will look like question marks! This is also a bit long, so I split it up a bit."


Truth claims, "Hi everyone! My topic is about auto-arrest. More specifically, about how much I really don?t like it and how I think it makes Law characters extremely powerful. Earlier this week, my character was arrested via auto-arrest, despite me RPing that I was hiding behind another character and not submitting codedly nor through RP. My poses meant nothing because the auto-arrest completed the arrest anyway. I was very upset by this, but other players basically told me to that it was ?fight or flight? when it came to arrests. "


Truth says, "I agree with this - that barring diplomatic measures, RP involving resisting arrest should always end with fight/flight. What I take issue with is that auto-arrest basically forces you to either leave the scene or codedly fight if you don?t want to submit to an arrest. It doesn?t matter if the arresting character doesn?t make any other movements towards you to subdue you, other than the ?arrest? command, which is really vague (person motions for you to bring your arms forward to clap manacles over them) and it doesn?t matter if you RP that you?re not accepting the arrest. You will be arrested anyway, and you have no say in the matter."


Truth states, "If I?m RPing that I?m not accepting the arrest AND I?m not fleeing the scene, the onus should be on the arresting character to subdue me through RP or coded combat. They shouldn?t automatically win after ten minutes (which I find in big scenes is hardly enough time to gauge reactions from other people who might hold direct stakes in the scene at hand). If the arrested person?s options are limited to fight/flight, then the arresting character?s options should also be appropriately limited. They shouldn?t be given an automatic coded win. It?s really unbalanced and makes playing an antagonistic character extremely discouraging if the only solutions are fighting or cutting RP short by fleeing."


Kuzco gives Truth a '


Kinaed states, "Yes, but to do that, you need to initiate the fight."


Truth states, "That concludes my topic! I hope that I make at least a little sense."


Kuzco claims, "I imagine auto arrest denies the possibility of talking or bluffing your way out of it"


Kinaed says, "Either you resist, or you don't, but sitting down on your laurels or wandering afk doesn't work specifically because a lot of people historically have tried to get out of an arrest simply by stalling."


Raspberries claims, "I've brought this up before- arrest should start combat. Otherwise even if you want to flee, you're forced to be aggressive and sock someone in the jaw just to be able to run away."


Kitty queries, "You can initiate a fight, but then do nothing but defend. That would be, basically, what you are describing there. You're defending by hiding behind someone. I think?"


Wimpled I think she is saying she was resisting in a non-combative way (i.e. hiding, moving around) rather than a combat oriented way.


Truth claims, "I?m not complaining because I?m unhappy that my character was arrested. I would have gone along with the arrest no matter what. I?m unhappy because the choice was made for me and stripped me of any control over my character before the point was made so via RP. I think that auto-arrest should be removed completely. I see no benefit for having it when both characters are actively RPing in an arrest situation. "


Kuzco questions, "What if you want to bribe, seduce, mind control the Reeve?"

Sparkles asks, "Perhaps the prompt could/should make more obvious what the options are?"

Satoshi queries, "Possibly add a resist command?"

Wimpled claims, "If you have to start a fight and then defend, then it's all on your code skills for defense."

Temi gives a drawstring coinpurse hanging on braided sunset-hued cords to SomeoneLoveable.


Wimpled states, "Which isn't fair if you're a non-combatant generally."

Kuzco nods.


Kinaed says, "I think perhaps we do have a wording issue here because there definitely is a choice - just not a choice to do nothing."

Raspberries nods in agreement.


Satoshi muses, "Just a coded way to show you're resisting the arrest non-violently, to keep the auto-timer from going off?"


Kuzco states, "Yeah I gotta agree with Truth here. There's no way to talk your way out of it."


Satoshi wonders, "And allow the arrestor to start combat or keep you from fleeing?"

Sparkles claims, "But it is odd that the command gives them a power that they wouldn't otherwise have. As you don't automatically win a fight in any other way."


Kinaed says, "You can talk when arrested though, and be released when arrested if you succeed. According to how it really works in the real world, if you resist arrest by talking, you will be cuffed while you're talking."


Raspberries claims, "Yeah, arrest is really a broken command"


Kuzco says, "If a 5 foot reeve teen wants to try and arrest Norrig, chances are he wouldn't get cuffed"


Niamh says, "Hmm. If we're under the assumption that physically moving to arrest someone is an aggressive action, which... I think it probably would be, the other person would need to do something to physically avoid it."

Temi nods at Niamh.


Brando says, "Yes you can talk your way out of it as the person arresting can cancel the code."


Kinaed states, "Then Norrig needs to fight to prove that."


Kuzco hmms.

Raspberries states to Kinaed, "Arrest prevents you from leaving the room"

Kuzco declaims to Kinaed, "Got it!"


Kinaed states, "And if you fight, you can attempt to flee, I believe."


Sparkles says, "Retainers don't react as if it is aggressive and react in any way."


Kuzco questions, "It does, Rasp?"

Raspberries nods.


Kuzco asks, "Then it's fight or submit?"


Raspberries states, "Yes"


Kinaed states, "It's submit, fight and win, or fight and flee -- I think."


Kinaed claims, "But either way, resisting = fight."


Kinaed claims, "Not talking."


Kuzco says, "Yeah. Well. I've said my piece."


Truth says, "Alright."


Azarial claims, "Nothing says you have to stab them once combat starts."


Raspberries states, "The last time this was brought up, I think it was decided that arrest should initiate combat, to allow people to use the flee option without being aggressive"

say Then I do agree/suggest the prompt be changed to make the options more obvious.

Sparkles states, "Then I do agree/suggest the prompt be changed to make the options more obvious."


Kuzco asks, "Was there a non violent 'engage' command?"


Temi claims, "There's definitely IC ways to 'resist' without violence, but in general, we've decided the arrest is a violent, active attempt and people can't just ignore that."

Ezio is idle.


Kuzco muses, "Like when animals lock on toyou?"


Raspberries claims, "There isn't for PCs"


Galax wonders, "I think the ambiguity here is if you pick 'fight', are you initiating combat by physically attacking the person trying to arrest you, or simply acting in an obviously hostile way that isn't submitting to arrest?"

Kinaed says, "I'll ask a staff member to test it, check the messaging, and see how we can improve the messaging and whatnot - but I don't think there's an issue in how it's structured beyond ... it is structured htis way because of bad behavior in the past where people just did nothing and the scene stalled until staff had to come mediate."


Niamh queries, "Curiously, what are people's assumptions on what's happening when someone is attempting to arrest them?"


Kinaed claims, "And our code desire is to always avoid staff arbitration in this kind of high tense situation"

Kuzco claims to Niamh, "To me it's asking and gesturing for the target to comply. Not smashing their face against the side of a police car and cuffing them."


Niamh muses, "Is it like a standing on the other side of the room and jangles handcuffs thing, a says out loud "I'm here to arrest you" type thing?"


Satoshi trails off, "I definitely think its not modern 'stick your hands out for the cuffs' thing...I mean back in the day usually you physically grab the person to keep them from darting away"

Kuzco questions to Kinaed, "Could we consider a non violent 'engage' command then? Like hostile animals do?"

Francesca laughs.

Raspberries says to Niamh, "I've seen it played out that way"


Azarial says, "Hpstile animals start combat."

Niamh asks of Kuzco, "Right, those are two extremes, but do you see it as one of the two extremes and only that?"


Satoshi states, "Because otherwise people would just run the frak away, like, can't catch me five villages away, copper"


Kitty trails off, "Hostile animals beat the crap out of you..."

Kinaed muses to Kuzco, "Given what Temi said earlier about arrest being inheritently submit and fight or don't... why would we?"

Niamh ponders.

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "To allow a fight then flight without commiting assault"


Kinaed says, "We're specifically saying 'passive resistance means being picked up while you're passively resisting and carried away'"

Kuzco claims to Niamh, "Depends on the arresting reeve's emotes really"

Niamh nods.


Kinaed claims, "If you're resisting arrest, you're going to be fighting Reeve whether you actively punch them or not."


Satoshi claims, "This is ye olden times, there aren't GUNS, so running doesn't have the same connotations as nowadays. So inherently arrests would be more physical than you expect."

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Satoshi says, "Just to keep peeps from darting off"


Niamh says, "I wouldn't think somebody would initiate "I'm physically putting cuffs on you now" while they're still chatting, which is what I've always assumed "arrest" indicated."


Kinaed says, "And again, bad behavior in the past has made this necessary."

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "But, hm. You make it seem, or at least I see it like this, that fleeing codedly from a reeve is the same as physically harming one"


Kitty asks, "So, is it a situation where the command, itself, was initiated prematurely?"


Kuzco queries, "If I'm a reeve and a suspect flees, it's bad, but if they hit me? I'll break their kneecaps just because"

Ethelon states, "Yeah, I'm agreeing with Satoshi there. When using the arrest command, I'd imagine the arrestor just moves in to forcibly put the shackles on you."


Kinaed states, "I think the Reeves would see not bowing to their authority as a moot issue whether you punch or not."

Kinaed nods at Francesca.


Kinaed claims, "That went to the wrong character."

Kinaed nods at Ethelon.


Francesca says, "It's okay. I'll take nods either way."

Kinaed says to Ethelon, "That's how it's envisioned in code design."

Kinaed smiles at Francesca.

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "Alright, that's fair. I'm not convinced but you have a point."


Sparkles asks, "Possibly, but what's the resource for that? Because if the arrest code allows you a guaranteed 'win' what's stopping walking in and using it regardless of any ongoing RP?"


Niamh says, "A reminder that initiating the arrest command is actually arresting the person physically might not hurt, as it would allow live RP that doesn't involve a brawl to go on until the physical arrest actually takes place."


Satoshi states, "That should be the community then, keeping an eye on that sort of abuse and reporting it to staff"


Kitty states, "Hopefully, common sense and RP."


Raspberries muses, "So why does applying something to someone initiate combat, but arresting someone not?"


Satoshi says, "Because if I slap you with pox-goo and you start itching you'd want to punch me"


Niamh says, "Probably because applying can't be consented to, but arresting can."


Kinaed states, "Like I said, I'll ask a staff member to test it, make sure people are aware they can fight or submit, and that if they fight they can attempt ot flee, but please do treat IC arrests as someone literally physically slapping shackles on you and maneuvering you into that position whether you like it or not. There are no guns and 'freeze, now put these on' kinda things, there's someone walking up, grabbing your wrists, and putting shackles on."

Niamh questions to Kinaed, "At the time 'arrest' is initiated as a command?"


Sparkles questions, "Are there any stats or skills that checks?"


Kinaed says, "Okay, that's one topic "

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Niamh nods.

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "Not unless you fight"

Kinaed says to Francesca, "Your topic "


Francesca claims, "This is a crafting thing and I'm sure no one else cares about this but me. BUT. In terms of the embellish command, I'd love if we could embellish certain crafts with scents. As in scented handkerchiefs, scented gloves, etc. which would all be very themely and cool. So like, I could take a vial of floral oil and a cloth handheld decoration or whatever and make them have a baby that could then be tooled appropriately for added crafting flavor. That is all. I want more scented items beyond paper."

Kinaed queries to Francesca, "Won't you introduce us?"


Niamh says, "OoOoOoooOO"


Kitty claims, "But, theoretically, the scent would fade over time."

Temi nods at Kitty.


Kinaed trails off, "That sounds cool..."


Satoshi trails off, "Oh yeah I highly agree with this. But also the scented paper doesn't fade, so..."


Brando says, "Its not garanteed win.. the arresting characters plqyer CAN cancel the arrest code mid stream . Emote quickly and explain yourself and the reeve may let you go BUT ... there doesnt seem to be enough time to codedly do that. 5mins was very short reply time."


Kuzco pontificates, "I like it! Screw logic"


Sunshine declaims, "I like this!"


Galax states, "This is fancy. I want it."


Sparkles says, "I'd like for there to be an @smell so that people could sniff my wine and I could RP not trying to feel like I'm being accused of being a poisoner."

Kinaed muses to Temi, "Is it physically possible to do that at the moment, or do we need code?"


SomeoneLoveable declaims, "Omg this is neat!"


Temi asks, "So you're suggesting having perfumes be a can_embellish flagged item?"


Elysaveta says, "Making scented oils able to be used as embellishments would be cool, besides scented papers."


Temi states, "That depends on if you just want to add the item on or have it add the scent to it."


Satoshi wonders, "On this matter, IS there a list of things you can ebellish with?"


Francesca states, "Not perfumes."


Satoshi trails off, "I learned the embellish command like...two days ago"


Francesca states, "But like making scented paper, you would take a craft and a vial of scented oil and embellish. And you can't do that at present because I already tried."


SomeoneLoveable muses, "I actually have another thing along this line that is sort of a suggestion but while asked may be pertinant?"


Temi muses, "What do you expect the result to be?"


Kuzco says, "It would give herbalists that don't pursue chandlery a new market"


Galax claims, "I would also love a @smell so that I can 'sniff' various items to know what they smell like. For instance, sniffing soap or perfumes to know what their smells are"

Kinaed says to Francesca, "By asking Temi if we could do that, I meant - could we set that up now without Azarial making underlying changes. "

Niamh finishes her note.


Temi states, "There are ways to do it now, but not with a smell thing. That would require Az work."


Temi says, "Hence why I'm asking what the intended result would be"

Kinaed nods.


Francesca claims, "Oh, sorry! And Temi, I would expect it to just be similar to scented paper. I'm not talking about an @smell. I don't really mind all of that. You can work it into the tooled description."

Francesca gets a petite ivory gift box adorned with a cerulean silk ribbon from a cerulean purse adorned with swirls of delicate embroidery.


Temi says, "We could probably do something like that then without too much work"


Francesca states, "Hang on. I have an example."


Elysaveta states, "I always thought it would be nice if the fancier perfume oils has a unique appraise message. Like one for Malinise, another for Carascelli."


Kinaed claims, "Okay, I think we're all in favor of this idea. It probably wouldn't have huge coding priority, but let me take it back to staff for consideration. And @smell as well, we actually already have a spec for that around."

Francesca opens a petite ivory gift box adorned with a cerulean silk ribbon.

Francesca gets a niello-etched silver locket, adorned with a peridot jewel from a petite ivory gift box adorned with a cerulean silk ribbon.


Niamh says, "The scented paper from artwork has an @appraise for the scent."

Francesca gets a rose-scented handkerchief embroidered with cerulean roses from a niello-etched silver locket, adorned with a peridot jewel.


Kinaed says, "We'll work out the particulars later."


Francesca states, "Yeah, I was thinking just adding it into the tool. It show when you appraise. Easy."


Francesca states, "Done. That's all."


Elysaveta claims, "It's usually just whatever herbs are used for the perfume oil, right now. I haven't tested how that goes with scented papers."

Kinaed questions to Kitty, "Okay, won't you introduce us to your topic? "

Francesca puts a rose-scented handkerchief embroidered with cerulean roses in a niello-etched silver locket, adorned with a peridot jewel.

Francesca puts a niello-etched silver locket, adorned with a peridot jewel in a petite ivory gift box adorned with a cerulean silk ribbon.


Kitty claims, "I have been noticing a growing trend of people this last month or more coming into a room that has RP already going on and -immediately- emoting (sometimes that even includes walking up to people that are in the room and speaking to/greeting/involving the people in conversation), rather than giving the people already in the room a chance to set the scene for newcomers, as it mentions in the second bullet point of help rp culture. It specifically says, the entering player should wait for a present player to set the scene before they emote, except in emergencies. Now, I know it says that 'most' players adhere to the following standards, and not all, but it can be very jarring for those already in a scene for conversations, interactions, etc to be abruptly interrupted by people who, essentially, burst in and just start doing whatever. Especially if the scene happens to be intense - which is not always clearly shown in actions, even if the actions are accurate.

ICly, it feels like someone who slams open a door and yells, "WAZZUP WITCHES!" to an entire room without taking a second to take note of what else is going on in there. (If we were, you know, in modern times.) Now, I know that, since this is a text game, it may take the existing players in the room a moment to type out something to orient an incoming player, but ICly, it can make the incoming character seem... rude, selfish, or inattentive to their surroundings because they are blatantly interrupting what's going on. If that is what the character is supposed to be, then I suppose that is fine, but I have a feeling that isn't the intention, which is why I am pointing this out and trying to give out a reminder - it is never bad to come into a room and pause for a moment to get a feel for what's going on already before entering a scene."

Francesca closes a petite ivory gift box adorned with a cerulean silk ribbon.

Temi nods.


Francesca claims, "1000 percent agree with Kitty here. I've been noticing that, too."


Wimpled claims, "I've personally had issues coming into some scenes where people haven't been posing first (per rp culture) and waiting for me to pose, which has been awkward."


Kinaed states, "Agreed. There's a reason that's supposed to be our RP culture, and I'd definitely advocate people ICly reacting to the rudeness."


Temi trails off, "There's times it's reasonable to pose first, if it doesn't matter what the people are currently doing. Like running in screaming and clutching at your stabbed gut..."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed says, "That'd be covered by the emergencies stuff."


SpaceJackal says, "I tend to do that, to wait until most people currently in the room pose before I pose, but I also find that sometimes others are waiting for ME to pose before they react."


Raspberries says, "Yeah, can be annoying when that happens. On the other hand- if someone new enters, try to be prompt about setting your action and get an emote for them soon"


Kitty states, "Right, but... that's emergencies. I'm not talking about that, at all."


Kuzco says, "Specially if people update their actions radically"


Niamh says, "Or OH MY GOD THERE'S A FREAKING DRAGON OUTSIDE."

Niamh states, "But otherwise does seem pretty rude."


Satoshi Yeah I usually wait for 1-2 emotes to go before I emote just so I can know like...how to respond. If it seems tense I've oocly asked people to update their actions for me so I can respond well


Brando nods at Raspberries.

Azarial says to Niamh, "Mushrooms are not an emergency. they're a trip."


Kuzco states, "Like from 'Norrig is having tea politely' to 'Norrig is turning James into a human knot'"


Temi finishes abruptly, "Sometimes I'll emote first on coming in if I wait a couple seconds and people don't address it, but try not to include the people already there in it. Same on people coming in - try not to include them"

Niamh grins at Azarial.


Kinaed claims, "But generally speaking, if you pop in a room, wait a bit before engaging people. You can emote about things like 'how' you enter without being disruptive, but running up to someoen and immediately talking to them is definitely worth an IC brow-raise"

Niamh wonders to Kuzco, "Why are you always turning someone into a human knot?"


Galax states, "It's just... what he likes doing."

Kuzco claims to Niamh, "It's free and doesn't damage my weapons"

Temi queries to Niamh, "Knot tying hobby meeting his violent tendencies?"

Kinaed nods at galax.


Wimpled claims, "Someone needs to turn Norrig into a human knot."


Azarial claims, "'Ariel thrusts the doors open with his pineapple codpiece and proudly rpesents himslf as he surveys the room for an open seat, or a fawning adoring audience for his 'piece of fruit.'"


Booknerd states, "So, just to be certain that I understand.."

Kuzco nods at Azarial.

Satoshi states, "I'm pretty sure Theodora has that covered, Wimpled."

Kinaed says to Azarial, "That's borderline."

Azarial nods.

Azarial gets a dufflebag of ooc meeting items from pico, a text editor.


Kitty states, "Exactly. There are times when a scene seems paused, and I'll go ahead and emote how I come in so other people can react, but other than that, I try to wait and find out what's going on. Now, I will mention, though... EQUALLY as jarring is stepping into a room, and immediately being pounced upon by everyone in the room with greetings before I've had a chance to enter myself."

Azarial gets a carved wooden box sculpted to resemble a Tubori pineapple from a dufflebag of ooc meeting items.

Azarial gets a suave, pineapple-shaped codpiece with spiky green accents from a carved wooden box sculpted to resemble a Tubori pineapple.

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Booknerd wonders, "It's okay to come in and pop off an emote as long as you are not directing it toward those who are already in the room. So if I want coffee and crumpets, I can emote ambling up to the bar or whatever. But not to address someone that you may happen to see their until they emote?"


Niamh chuckles.


Azarial claims, "Yeah, it was, wasn;t it."

Kinaed nods at Booknerd.

Azarial puts a suave, pineapple-shaped codpiece with spiky green accents in a carved wooden box sculpted to resemble a Tubori pineapple.

Azarial puts a carved wooden box sculpted to resemble a Tubori pineapple in a dufflebag of ooc meeting items.

Temi nods.

Azarial puts a dufflebag of ooc meeting items in pico, a text editor.


Sunshine says, "OMG! My tubori inquisitor NEEDS that."


Kinaed states, "Yeah, I often pop in and emote 'walking sedately to the bar' or whatever."

Temi says, "Address yourself and coming in, but don't try to set the scene."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kuzco says, "Exactly"


Temi claims, "The people that were already there own the current state of the scene."

Niamh nods at Temi.

Elysaveta nods.


Kuzco states, "I've seen people cheerfully come to emote and greet without waiting to check, and there was a fight or a fugitive thief or domething"


Kinaed states, "Mind, it's okay to hijack it in the right circumstances - two people sitting around having tea probably wouldn't mind the excitement of being interrupted because you just saw a mage casting in Church Square."


Galax was never really sure about any of this, and puts a note in her handy-dandy notebook.


SpaceJackal questions, "I am guessing I should also wait for a Noble to emote stepping in before I make my character bow and all that stuff?"


Kinaed claims, "But until you know they're having tea and crumpets, it might be best to wait."

Temi claims to Kinaed, "Right - but interrupting is different than coming in and claiming the tea shop was calm before you burst in."

Temi nods.


Kuzco claims, "Yeah"


Kuzco questions, "I think we all agree here?"

Temi states, "Who knows... they could have been having a shouting match over the flavor of the tea before you came in."


Kitty Exactly. Emoting how you come in is totally ok. But immediately coming in and engaging someone else in conversation without knowing what sort of thing they're already doing is... sometimes a little jarring for whatever they may be doing. It is possibly interrupting a tense conversation they are having. I've even seen people be completely ignored as a result, because they ARE interrupting a tense conversation.

Kinaed says to SpaceJackal, "Noble courtesy is a bit weird - you don't owe anything unless they engage you or if you're quite close to them. So a noble walking into a bar would probably garner reaction from people by the door, but not all the way across the room"


Elysaveta says, "But most mages doing that don't mind being rude and disruptive IC, in my experience."


Elysaveta declaims, "Seems like a conscious choice there!"

Kuzco says to Kinaed, "That's unfortunately not what tends to happen"

SomeoneLoveable has lost link.


Raspberries states, "If someone's in a room, I enter, set my action on entering, and wait for them to emote first, whether there's a scene in the room or not."

Niamh nods at Raspberries.

Kuzco says to Kinaed, "I've seen nobles freak out when people on the very end of the room, engaged in their own conversation, don't throw themselves and their toddlers to said noble's feet "


Niamh claims, "Probably safe to say it's courteous to wait and get the mood of the room before changing the entire scene on your arrival."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "Well, when I play an inquisitor or a noble, I don't generally freak about people treating me with disrespect unless I have engaged them in some way."


Kinaed states, "I don't know how people are taking that at the moment."


Kitty says, "That is... likely... another topic that needs to come up. help courtesy might need some updates, because we have... yes, that, Kuzco."

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

say The difficulty is no one moves from the door.

Sparkles states, "The difficulty is no one moves from the door."


Galax states, "I always assumed noble courtesy was 'everyone in the room/bar/whatever drops what they're doing for a moment of respects', usually because that's what tends to get emoted ICly, and sometimes even that's what gets expected by the noble"


Kitty claims, "But, other nobles stick very closely to it."


Satoshi states, "We've had the nobles and bowing/not bowing conversation multiple times and it seems to be a cultural expectation thing, yeah what he said"

SomeoneLoveable has reconnected.


Niamh says, "If they seem to expect of you, I'd get to bowin' and whisper behind their back about them being a tyrant."


Kuzco claims, "I try to be reasonable, and wait a little before bowing. Try to lash me for it and I'll tie you into a h-- you get the idea."


Satoshi states, "Culturally since I'm new(ish) and have a fresh view compared to some, yes, literally everyone stops what they're doing for a moment to bow, so that seems to be what's expected"

Kinaed states to galax, "I think people do that to be safe, not because it's what's necessary. The help file specifically gives allowance for people who are far away, as I recall, and I'm not certain I'd like to change that."

Temi nods in agreement with Niamh.

Kinaed nods at Niamh.


Temi claims, "There are no cultural expectations that a noble gets greeted by everyone in the far corners of the room."

Nysteesia is idle.


Kinaed states, "Certainly - basically, nobles are generally powerful enough to get what they want."

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "Yeah, exactly. It has gone from a failsafe to an obligation."

Nysteesia is no longer idle.

Niamh nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Nysteesia has returned from AFK.


Satoshi claims, "To the point where my character's friend got reprimanded for not bowing when entering to a noble who was engaged in conversation. And i mean GAME CULTURE not character culture"


Temi claims, "But there are cultural expectations that you don't tell the noble that was a bad idea to their face."


Sparkles says, "The difficulty is you don't know if they will or won't expect it, so vague statements on what's expected leave newer players that we are drawing a bit confused."


Niamh claims, "That's fine. Little bit of surprise in RP is a good thing."

Galax claims to Kinaed, "Not suggesting it should change in the text, simply explaining what I've observed as a trend"

Raspberries states to Temi, "Just plot to have them gutted after the scene *nods*"

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "As said before, a lot of TI's help files are designed to be semi ambiguous to allow players to interpret, and there's value in that."


Kuzco states, "At this rate we'll see nobles get upset at demons for not bowing xD"

Niamh says to Raspberries, "Poooison."


Kinaed claims, "Culture on TI tends to vascilate a bit between strict and lose adherance to stuff."


Raspberries claims, "Or poison! We don't get enough poisonings."

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Satoshi lifts nose in air to demon. "Tut, tut. Bow first. Booow. Now thank you, here is my soul."


Azarial states, "Which could be thematic, and certainly a way for a demon to sucker a noble into--well."

Temi nods in agreement with Raspberries.

Kuzco says to Azarial, "Well indeed."

say I think sometimes there's a difference between an IC choice and being OOCly confused though.

Sparkles says, "I think sometimes there's a difference between an IC choice and being OOCly confused though."


Wimpled claims, "I'd like to see a noble order a demon around. It listens, then they must be a mage."


Brando nods at Raspberries and Niamh.


Niamh claims, "Not knowing how someone will respond to something is probably just the nature of the beast here. You won't know until you do it or don't do it. Always good to bear in mind that a noble getting mad at your character isn't a punishment to you as a person - it's all story and all IC, and can all be responded to in the same format."

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "But providing OOC 'hard guidelines' removes any IC ambiguoity, so we can't do that."


Kuzco trails off, "Blackmarket jobs against nobles are a thing after all..."

Truth is idle.
Ezio has left the game.


Satoshi claims, "I've suggested before updated the courtesy file though, to follow that new cultural expectation though"

Niamh nods at Kuzco.


Niamh says, "P.S. Stab them while they sleep."

Raspberries grins at Niamh.


Satoshi states, "Cause the courtesy helpfile doesn't talk about bowing AT ALL"


Kuzco claims, "Oh well I was gonna say shove Strangledust down their throats"


Satoshi says, "And yet, NPCs codedly bow, in some instances"


Niamh claims, "Yeah, it actually doesn't. I searched for it up and down when that came up last time."


Kinaed says, "I don't think I like that 'new cultural expectation' for help courtesy, so I don't want to write it in the help file. "


Temi states, "Assume they were close by."

Temi nods at Satoshi.

Niamh says to Satoshi, "To you, that is."


Satoshi half-shrugs. Anyways, we're circling here


Sunshine muses, "So violent. Where is the Lord's love? Do I need to get my whip and make you all see sense?"


Wimpled claims, "If that's not an expected cultural expectation, then perhaps that should be flashed to nobles, particularly when there are periods where lots of players are writing apps for them. "


Temi says, "Or the NPC particulrly wants their attention, to feel special or to get their business or something."


Kuzco nods at Wimpled.


Satoshi perks to Sunshine. "You can whip me any day, darling."


Temi claims, "Some nobles do want to stir up trouble and create tension, and they know they are being more demanding than is necessarily expected."


Sparkles states, "It's difficult to even know who has entered in a big public event sometimes."


Niamh claims, "A noble could decide they want everyone to hop up and down three times when they enter the room. I wouldn't want to helpfile that either. >_>"

Kinaed states to Wimpled, "Well, it can certainly be ICly dealt with. I wouldn't OOCly flash people about it unless I felt it was a problem. The wiggle room is for people to ICly have 'a leg to stand on if they choose to fight back' however they might do that."


Kuzco claims, "Subverting annoying nobles is valid too"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Raspberries pontificates to Niamh, "They could add that to their own character helpfile though!"


Niamh whispers something about stabbing to Kuzco.

Niamh grins at Raspberries.


Niamh claims, "Yes."


Kuzco states, "Really a noble should not provoke the under classes into getting -- yes darling, stabbity time"


Niamh states, "Stabbity stab."


Raspberries asks, "Any more topics?"


Kuzco states, "I'm good"


Kinaed says, "So, we have about 10 minutes left and are nearing the top of the hour. Is there anything else anyone wants to discuss before we wrap up? I've got to have a staff meeting today, and I have limited time, so if we're done early, I would like to reclaim that time if possible."


Wimpled claims, "Sure. But it seems like a lot of tap-dancing around player choice when it sounds like there may be some OOC confusion here, either on the part of new players or new nobles. I.e. this is the common cultural expectation, but things may differ is more helpful to a new player than you don't have to bow if you're across the room and then they get in trouble for it. "


Kinaed says, "Nope, no more topics."


Sparkles claims, "I had something real quick."


Wimpled claims, "I have some."


Brando claims, "Yes please .. Just quickly. Please dont forget to recommend your favorite characters players this week."


Raspberries claims, "I'm good here then. I bumped a forum topic on the arrest thing discussed, if anyone wants to weigh in more"


Wimpled says, "I have a quick thing."


Kuzco declaims, "We are #18 in The Mud Connector! That's great!"


Satoshi claims, "Let sparkles talk real quick but I think the endall is if you see a cyan doing something stupid use osay to confirm sometimes they ARE new players"


Satoshi quickly flaps hands.

Kinaed says to Wimpled, "As I was saying to Sparkles, the method of fixing that removes OOC, and THUS IC ambiguity both, and that's not something I'm willing to do. Nowhere will you see a help file that says Dav was right for the same exact reason. Some things people just have to feel out for themselves, decide what they think, and own it."


Kuzco declaims, "Also I need more original art for Facebook! I was too busy to post this week but I'm still going strong!"


Wimpled says, "I was just suggesting making sure the helpfile says it's ambiguous rather than outlining it completely."


Kinaed will ponder that.


Wimpled claims, "But I don't really care and it's not my extra throw in if there's time to drop a quick other topic after Sparkles."


Kinaed opens her ears for Sparkles.


Kuzco sits at Sparkles' feet.


Niamh holds up a blinking sign shaped like an arrow over Sparkles's head.

Sparkles says, "Was there a decision made about scribe and installed books? It came up at a meeting before but I'm not sure if it was put into a spec or still up for discussion."


Kinaed claims, "I think there was, and I think we posted it, and I forgot what it as."


Raspberries says, "Oh yeah. that'd be nice. I think I was the one that brought it up"


Niamh states, "I remember discussing it but not what came of it. Huh."


Kinaed states, "I think we said people should be able to scribe books they can see, but not pick them up, etc."

Raspberries nods.

Raspberries states, "Remember if you do implement it, the !take flag should not copy over from the original. "


Kinaed states, "I think there may have been some concern about books in the library suddenly flooding the market because books are NOT cheap commodities like IRL"

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Niamh claims, "I could make book-binding supplies more pricey to offset."


Raspberries claims, "Scribe costs money though"

say If they are priced appropriately scribing them still costs a lot of money.

Sparkles states, "If they are priced appropriately scribing them still costs a lot of money."


Kinaed says, "Anyway, we may have to revisit that, because I don't remember. I know we did decide and we did post the decision."


Raspberries states, "Minimum of 150 silver."


Raspberries states, "More based on the value of the book"

Kinaed nods.

Sparkles says, "But it's less an OOC burden than copying/pasting particulrly with all the new fields in the Write system."


Azarial states, "Scribing is resource and time intensive, as youa re doing it by hand; it won;t be cheap"


Elysaveta claims, "Books are definietly already kind of pricey to copy anyway, so I don't know if there would be a flood for that reason."

Niamh nods.


Brando nods


SomeoneLoveable queries, "Scribing took education as well, so it made it expensive too, didn't it?"


Elysaveta says, "Unless someone really wants to copy everything by hand, but I know I don't."


Azarial says, "You can draw it wihtout having to read it."


Kuzco claims, "There is the issue that books never decay or are consumed"


Galax says, "Let me eat a book to get stronger"


Satoshi says, "People can destroy or hide books, though, like real life."


Kitty trails off, "Unless someone happens to have one in their hands when they liquidate..."


Sparkles states, "I'd think that should start elsewhere before books."


Kinaed claims, "We revere books too much to let that happen."

Elysaveta nods.


Sparkles claims, "People do just liquidate with the only copies of things sometimes though, yes."


Kuzco states, "If it's a mage book then it doesn't matter"


Kinaed states, "So much of our game history is preserved in ledgers, for example, letting them decay would be a travesty."

Kuzco declaims to Kinaed, "Didn't imply that!"


Elysaveta claims, "Books can be pretty durable."

Raspberries nods.

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "It was an argument against mass copying of books"

Kinaed nods at Elysaveta.


Kinaed says, "The costs involved with scribing should prevent it from being a mass issue."

Kuzco nods.


Elysaveta says, "I don't see a lot of copies of books that easier to scribe for sale or hanging around as is."


Raspberries says, "Time's up."

Kinaed claims to Raspberries, "Thanks "


Satoshi declares, "Thanks for the meeting today! We appreciate you staff!"


SomeoneLoveable claims, "I still didn't know people had books of things other than a few in the library."


Francesca exclaims, "Yes, thank you!"


Kinaed declaims, "Okay, thank you for attending today everyone! Appreciate your time... see you next week!"