assets and city metrics

[wix]

While trying to create a T2 asset the natural choice for the strongest consistent aggressive performing city metrics are not available, there are some second best options but it seems the best ones are no longer available...
My kneejerk reaction to that limitation is "unfair!": if a considerable chunk of the existing pbase has recognized and maneuvered to profit from these metrics, thats just good for them and bad for new players. playing a freeman sort of cements this feeling with the further limitation of the best income options on top of the limitation of asset quantity.

I was wondering if perhaps there was a better way, since this limitation seems to rightfully be motivating the disenfranchised (dramatic, yes) to push their newly discovered 2nd best city metrics, would it be possible to lift the cap on asset type quantity, and replace it with a different mitigation which promotes a more dynamic city report?

I'm suggesting that higher quantities of assets drawing from a specific city metric, should drain and counteract that metric and make it more difficult to maintain due to the vast quantity of coinage its generating for so many recipients. so all this profit from all these people actually creates some sort of need for maintaining the source, instead of just sitting back and collecting on top performing metrics effortlessly. players can currently just cash in on massive quantities of silver over time by picking the most profitable options, and this coinage (as far as I know) has zero influence on the city metrics, or at least has failed to change the strongest of these metrics within living memory.

as an example, the city is exceptionally and consistently Pious, and many PC's are profiting from this extreme piety... so doesn't the massive redistribution of pious coins attract the ire of any opposing economic forces who may be the least bit attracted by the wealth? it would make sense that all these erra patra publishing companies throughout lithmore would have diminishing returns for all shareholders when *another* starbucks pops up on the one corner that didn't have one yet. market saturation does not seem to be a thing, currently, aside from limiting options for newer PC's. maybe the city drowning in books, keeps buying them but somehow manages to buy less per bookstore, or maybe it results in erroneous acceptance of erra patra beer coasters if too many copies of them are lying around.

[Alpharius]

Piety is constantly high because of the playerbase's actions and support. If your suggestion was in effect, it'd basically negate the entire point of supporting said city metric. Many players support the city metric that their assets cash out on, and if cashing out also counteracts the asset... well then, what's the point in me spending IP to support the city metric if it's not gonna do anything?

It's not really easy to maintain assets at high levels. Also, you -think- none of those returns are going back to maintaining the metric... but actually, it is in the form of tithes.

[Dreams]

I'm suggesting that higher quantities of assets drawing from a specific city metric, should drain and counteract that metric and make it more difficult to maintain due to the vast quantity of coinage its generating for so many recipients. so all this profit from all these people actually creates some sort of need for maintaining the source, instead of just sitting back and collecting on top performing metrics effortlessly. players can currently just cash in on massive quantities of silver over time by picking the most profitable options, and this coinage (as far as I know) has zero influence on the city metrics, or at least has failed to change the strongest of these metrics within living memory.

This is definitely not done 'effortlessly'. The metrics that are high are because the people in the guilds and the people that have those metrics regularly support them every cycle. I have seen Piety fall below average because people are subverting it or not supporting it, and stay there. I have seen the same for several metrics - if the people aren't doing their due diligence to support it, then it can and will fall. Economics used to always be at Legendary, as did Morale. It's all about player actions.

Please also note that you can subvert rather than support a city metric if you want to try to negate what the other players are accomplishing.

[Taunya]

It might be worth checking the asset market as well.

[Puciek]

Piety is constantly high because of the playerbase's actions and support. If your suggestion was in effect, it'd basically negate the entire point of supporting said city metric. Many players support the city metric that their assets cash out on, and if cashing out also counteracts the asset... well then, what's the point in me spending IP to support the city metric if it's not gonna do anything?

It's not really easy to maintain assets at high levels. Also, you -think- none of those returns are going back to maintaining the metric... but actually, it is in the form of tithes.

Piety has only been high recently. Year or two ago it was in the tank for a very long period of time because many player forces were very effectively working towards that. It definitely is not a constant, at all.

[wix]

Piety is constantly high because of the playerbase's actions and support. If your suggestion was in effect, it'd basically negate the entire point of supporting said city metric. Many players support the city metric that their assets cash out on, and if cashing out also counteracts the asset... well then, what's the point in me spending IP to support the city metric if it's not gonna do anything?

It's not really easy to maintain assets at high levels. Also, you -think- none of those returns are going back to maintaining the metric... but actually, it is in the form of tithes.

Aha! thats true there is an economic return on that one. a sizable one too, with that law of giving.
I understand (sort of, I'm still learning this part of the game) that some PC's work hard to keep the stats in their extreme state, but the part where they get paid for it doesn't seem to have any drawbacks for overcrowding once the asset is set up, the work put into maintaining city metrics are only attached to silver if the asset type matches. I see how my suggestion would further impact other aspects of the game. also its nice to learn that just over a year ago, piety was in the toilet. I guess thats closer to 5 years ago on Urth.

[galaxgal]

Yeah, it's worth noting that while these trends can last for what feels like months, they DO shift. Piety used to be in the dumpster 3 years ago. We've had phases where Morale is legendary. It usually seems to relate to whichever Guild has the 'strongest' and most active characters, and right now, that's Order.

I do wish there were more ways for more players to interact with metrics, as I think it would make them have less 'holding patterns' that cause these dominating trends. Like some activity you could do on-grid in addition to or instead of putting 5 IP into the algorithm.

[wix]

Yeah, it's worth noting that while these trends can last for what feels like months, they DO shift. Piety used to be in the dumpster 3 years ago. We've had phases where Morale is legendary. It usually seems to relate to whichever Guild has the 'strongest' and most active characters, and right now, that's Order.

I do wish there were more ways for more players to interact with metrics, as I think it would make them have less 'holding patterns' that cause these dominating trends. Like some activity you could do on-grid in addition to or instead of putting 5 IP into the algorithm.

I think the way to do this, is for PC's to IC talk about their asset alignment and approach a targetted metric that they want to see improved, while also recruiting others to do the same, which is (I think) the way the Order got Piety to stay so high. I'm not in the IP game just yet but it sounds like spending the points is a matter of a simple algorithm, and earning the points is where all the effort goes.

props to the order for what they built and maintained. Lithmore has quite the consistent feel.

[Puciek]

Yeah, it's worth noting that while these trends can last for what feels like months, they DO shift. Piety used to be in the dumpster 3 years ago. We've had phases where Morale is legendary. It usually seems to relate to whichever Guild has the 'strongest' and most active characters, and right now, that's Order.

I do wish there were more ways for more players to interact with metrics, as I think it would make them have less 'holding patterns' that cause these dominating trends. Like some activity you could do on-grid in addition to or instead of putting 5 IP into the algorithm.

I am curious - what ways? You can document any metric-related roleplay via plots and have it impact a metric. So if your character wants to say murder the economy, hire some players to torch few storefronts, or do other nefarious things and then make sure to log that with a plot advance and see the impact on the metric. Obviously this is an extreme example, there are many more subtle ways to handle it but I don't want to give out actual tank-the-rank guide here . Afaik you will have to spend the 10qp for it due to needing RPA to make it work, but that's life, so better write those recommends and submit typos!

[galaxgal]

If your Guild has a strong, active population, most of your guildmates are at least nominally invested in keeping that Guild's 'preferred metric' high because it gives them free money and RPA. Guildleaders get city metric votes for free, you can hand out your GL IP to trustworthy lackeys and maintain a strong city metric well. On a good cycle, this can be as easy as a few letters. On a bad one it can mean a lot of begging and greased palms.

So if your Guild is internally strong, active, and unified, you will have a strong metric pretty much guaranteed. Of course, these are not easy things to achieve as a GL, but I wanted to demystify those mechanics and patterns into concrete terms.

This also is why breaking into the 'IP Game' is so difficult for new players... but on the flip side, that means the easiest way to get it is from your Guild, despite that I rarely see it asked.

RE: Puciek. The idea is kind of vague but in my mind some kind of automated system. If or when Turf Wars is ever finalized, a system like that comes to mind as a possible vehicle for that sort of thing. Something that actually involves PC's going somewhere and doing something on grid, rather than relying on abstract inputs or staff intervention.