Log of OOC Meeting - 2021-07-03

[Taunya]

Kinaed states, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Kinaed claims, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

Kinaed says to Deedee, "I've got you on the list :)"

Deedee nods.

Sparkles says, "I've a quick topic."

Kinaed queries, "Anyone else?"

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "Got you :)"

Eos claims, "Got twp"

Eos says OOCly, "Ajh dang"

Raspberries pats Eos. 

Salem questions, "Eos got twink potential? XD"

MerryYule states, "Only one"

MerryYule claims, "I hate mudlet"

Kinaed states, "Got an anonymous one."

Kinaed wonders, "Anyone else?"

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, going once..."

Kinaed trails off, "Twice..."

Kinaed states, "Okay, kicking off Staff Updates - last week, I reviewed the Sanctum write-up from the guild. Looked pretty good, a big thanks to the person who wrote it up. QP is coming your way."

Kinaed states, "I think I did other stuff, but heck if I can remember it. I'm currently processing stuff from previous OOC Chats and pulling out major themes for prioritization, etc."

MerryYule has been transferred out by Kinaed.  [OOC]

Kinaed claims to Salem, "You're up :)"

Salem ponders. "I tested and played in code with the help of some players. Then I got to fix the crashing bug we had, because of a typo that I made in the loading of files." He ducks for incoming tomatoes. "Otherwise I'm cleaning up code and the expiry of redlists and blacklists is working now." 

Kinaed pontificates, "Awesome, thanks Salem! :)"

Kinaed says to Eos, "Your turn :)"

Eos states, "This week I did a few things for the Tail and Teeth plot. All animals are caught now - thank you everyone for the lovely scenes we had for the captures! It's been a joy. "

There are no tomatoes because Salem is great. [Violet]

Raspberries claims, "The expiry sounds good"

Kinaed cheers.

Eos claims, "I've also helped Salem locate and fix some bugs that sneaked in with us playing in refactored code. Apologies for the crashes, we are working on that. We are basically taking the code apart at the seams and resorting and reattaching parts, so, to be transparent, crashes are to be expected during that part."

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kinaed says, "Really appreciate everyone's patience. :)"

Kinaed declaims, "And that's probably the fastest Staff Update ever!"

Kinaed queries, "Next up - Player Heartbeat. How was the game for you this week, folks?"

A male voice exclaims, "Challenging trying to get a new guild off the ground!"

Anonymous states, "IM SPOOKED"

A male voice states, "You bloody should be"

Kitty claims, "Game is going ok."

Anonymous says, "Hah you outed yourself"

Anonymous says, "Only one person says 'bloody'"

Rey states, "Good but super busy. I've been getting lots of events planned and trying to figure out how we're going to run them."

A male voice claims, "Bollocks"

Deedee says, "Been pretty good! Lots of stuff going on in the Physicians. Hope our new entrants are enjoying themselves"

Anonymous declares, "Or bollocks!"

Lewllyn claims, "Things are going well"

Kinaed grins at Rey.

Eos says, "Glad to see the physicians thriving :)"

Sparkles claims, "I've had some interesting RP this week. I'm happy how we keep seeing new folk either new or returning players."

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Violet claims, "Trying to get back into things after a hellish IRL month <3 Ty all for patience and the fun"

Kinaed states, "Our numbers have been pretty solid lately. That's nice."

Kinaed comforts Violet.

Kinaed states to Violet, "Gosh, I hope it improves."

Kinaed queries, "Anything shitting anyone that they haven't raised as a topic, but maybe staff ought to know?"

Cat states, "I had very interesting scenes. It was good."

Cat starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Violet states to Kinaed, "So do I"

Violet claims, "Casual reminder for folks to fill out whois-- It really helps with scheduling to have a sense for when folks are around"

Kitty states, "And update it when things change."

Violet nods.

Eos has transferred Yaslan.  [OOC]

Rey says, "Except people don't actually use it when its there."

Eos gives a cloak pin from pewter shaped and painted like a mistletoe to Yaslan.

Kitty claims, "Some do. A lot do. "

Yaslan pontificates, "Thank you!"

Kinaed questions, "Sounds like people are maybe down a little IRL, but the game is going okay overall?"

Sparkles nods.

Kinaed states, "A big thanks to our players who have been spending time reviewing the game and/or talking it up to help us attract players and get more people for everyone to play with. It's apparently working, and deeply appreciated."

Cat finishes his note.

Kinaed states, "Alright - I think that might be all for Player Heartbeat for now. :) Let's pop over to our Player Topics. If you think of one during the chat, please feel free to send me a tell."

Kinaed exclaims to Deedee, "You're up first :) Please introduce us to your topic!"

Deedee claims, "Just a small reminder to keep your crafts thematic, including cooking. I recently saw that someone made a dish with white chocolate, which wasn't invented until the 20th century. For some thematic ideas, http://medievalcookery.com is a great resource."

Kinaed says to Deedee, "Thanks :) Appreciate that."

Kinaed says, "I can add that to the list of things for HELP TECHNOLOGY as well - we've pulled the stuff on the forums into that."

Eos says, "Thank you for pointing it out :)"

Deedee nods.

Rey queries, "Should we have some flexibility with food so people can be creative?"

Kinaed states, "It depends on whether people find it jarring or not, I think."

Sparkles says, "I admit that hearing that after it being used IC for RL years feels, I don't know. Something."

Kinaed states, "I haven't come across white chocolate ICly, but for all I know it's being sold at the chocolaterie. That being said, there's mixed value in it. A lot of our stereotypes and historical stuff are tropes as opposed to real."

Savagery declares, "So my molecular gastronomy career is ended. Maybe next time!"

Kinaed states, "And we're a fantasy game. But anyone who works in the chocolate industry would probably have a brain weevil."

Sparkles states, "We also aren't strictly one hundred percent medieval, otherwise a number of the types of alcohol we have and things kind of deeply ingrained in IC culture we wouldn't have."

Lewllyn states, ""it's wizardy I tell you""

Anonymous says, "Oh my god white chocolate made by witchcraft"

Anonymous states, "Im reporting a moral threat to lans immediately"

Kinaed says, "... I mean, that's perfectly thematic."

Anonymous states, "... oh darn, he's not here to nod."

A male voice claims, "I'll relay it"

Yaslan says, "The Knightmare stealing our chocolate"

Savagery says, "The chocolate is evil and heretical. It must be dealt with... I volunteer to dispose of it."

Kinaed states, "I might take this away to discuss with staff since theme enforcement really falls into our laps. :)"

Deedee states, "Witchcraft probably would be the only way to make white chocolate without 20th century technology"

Anonymous states, "You do that"

Kinaed grins at Savagery.

Yaslan claims, "I'll help."

Tasker slowly fades into view.
Tasker moves suddenly, revealing their position.

Kitty says, "Anything that's truly questionable, as long as it's not sold at somewhere like the chocolaterie, for example, should probably be consdiered magey. Though, need to be careful where that's unintended. Recently had to look up whether breading things could be a thing, for example."

Deedee states, "Maybe it can be made a magecraft recipe. :)"

Yaslan states, "The chcocolate must be disposed of"

Savagery declaims, "There's a wild Tasker!"

Yaslan states, "A noble cause"

Tasker claims, "Tis' I, the Green Tasker"

Savagery declares, "Your chocolatey ways are discovered!"

Gretchman queries, "Applejack is from the 1700s, so... I think it kinda... works?"

Yaslan claims, "The vavardi chcolate force shall assemble"

Gretchman says, "It's hard to make food for a year you're not in."

Raspberries claims, "White chocolate seems demonic IRL anyway."

Anonymous claims, "Thats because it is"

Kinaed grins at Raspberries.

Savagery says, "Demonically delicious."

Yaslan questions, "Chocolate demons?"

Kinaed says, "Okay, I'll have to take that away to discuss with staff."

Yaslan muses, "Is this a thing?"

Yaslan queries, "Someone ask the mages?"
Kinaed asks of Sparkles, "Your next! Please introduce us to your topic? :)"

Kitty claims, "If white chocolate isn't a thing, might want to add it to 'help technology' as not a thing."

Anonymous states, "Kinaed if i don't see a demon popping up distributing white chocolate to everyone who they come across, ill be very disappointed"

Kinaed claims to Kitty, "Will do."

Kinaed has transferred Lans.  [OOC]

Smoke puffs and Ghed steps out from it. [OOC]

Anonymous claims, "Lans thank the lord. we have a moral threat to report. white chocolate."

Eos gives a cloak pin from pewter shaped and painted like a mistletoe to Lans.

Sparkles claims, "So speaking about the preparation of a large number of food items, I'd like to beg/suggest that the 'split' command have the ability to split things into more than one piece at a time. Without it doing the 'even split' thing."

Ghed claims, "Sorry sorry"

Tasker says, "Oh shit"

Yaslan hides the chocolat from lans

Lans states, ":tasker:"
Eos gives a cloak pin from pewter shaped and painted like a mistletoe to Ghed.

Lans states to Eos, "Thank you"

Eos queries, "Isnt that already a thing? like, you can do split 3 and it gives you three bites?"

Deedee muses, "Just for less spam's sake?"

Yaslan says, "Vavardi chocolate force! Disassemble."

Eos says, "Or do you mean, you split it up into multiple pieces at once"

Kinaed writes that request down, "Sounds fine to me - with regards to programming priority, it might be awhile off. Anyone else want to endorse this or suggest an alternative?"

Sparkles says, "Split it into multiple pieces at once. "

Sparkles states, "Like being able to slice up the whole cake into twelve pieces at once."

Eos says, "Ah, I see, thank you for specifying :)"

Cat says, "Splitting alcohol bottles into cups for selling them would be really good."

Yaslan scatters with the white chocolate supplies and all the other chocolate....and the cake

Deedee says, "You can do that already, Cat"

Kinaed jots down notes.

Cat claims, "Split is so spammy though."

Sparkles states, "Split is spammy because it echoes to the entire room every single time."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed muses, "Can we remove that echo for now?"

Kinaed muses, "Or should we?"

Deedee claims, "I think the echo makes sense."

Deedee splits off a portion from a half-geode formed from rock sugar with crystals of purple.

Kinaed states, "It seems to me like it's something people can emote or hemote around though."

Violet says, "One thing re: cake specifically, having a cookie or a small frosted cake recipe? I can't speak for everyone else's experience but for me, the frosted cake recipe is a real bear."

Sparkles says, "The split makes sense but can be emoted. But not being able to do it in front of other people for fear of spamming can make preparations/handling public events harder."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Violet says, "Or a recipe to cut the cake, since it's so massive"

Kinaed questions to Violet, "When you say a real bear, why is that?"

Sparkles claims, "A struggle."

Deedee questions, "Ingredients-wise?"

Eos asks, "If you do a recipe, youd have to tool every single bite, so i would prefer making it with the split command? that seems more convenient?"

Sparkles states, "We have no set recipes for like, say ... cookies. That make one bite things but like a dozen or two dozen of them. So you need to make something bigger and split it."

Raspberries says, "I'm a little tickled that cake is one of the most energy-abundant foods in the game. Let them eat cake wouldn't be such a bad idea."

Violet trails off, "It is 12 bites of 124 energy each. I think it's designed to be like... the sort of massive cake you'd have at a party"

Eos grins.

Rey states, "Ah so like bulk paper."

Kinaed nods.

Anonymous "I gobble cake like they're bags of skittles."

Kinaed states, "Okay, I've taken notes on this and will talk to Temi when she gets back about new recipes."

Anonymous states, "I never have less than 3 on me at all times and I'm capable of scarfing down the entire thing in one go."

Gretchman states, "Brb calling priest"

Kinaed says, "We'll also discuss if we should update Split to be more user friendly."

Kitty claims, "I think we should be careful about adding a bunch of new recipes for something that there is already a function for."

Deedee nods in agreement.

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Ghed nods at Kitty.

Eos asks, "Yea i think if we change how split works that is more user friendly than a recipe, no?"

Deedee states, "Related note, on the serve command"

Eos states, "Because then you only need to tool it once"

Kinaed queries, "I think the Staff feel the same way, so we're probably best to look at the problem holistically. May I ask - on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being like... this is super important, and 1 being like... nice to have, just a random shower thought... where does this rate for people in priority?"

Kitty questions, "Split already exists. It would make more sense to adjust split than to make recipes to cut everything. Because you'd end up in an endless cycle of, 'but what about this one? And this one?'"

Kitty states, "Split already works for all of them."

Deedee asks, "Could it be fixed that the temporary containers show how many servings on appraise?"

Kitty states, "When I'm going to split something, I tool it as what it would be once split. Because, I know it will be that."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kitty says, "For things that are goign to be split at a party, the long description can have the big item, and the short can be the single one after split."

Raspberries states, "It always makes sense to describe the food itself when tooling"

Kinaed nods.

Raspberries states, "The short can be a portion, etc. the long can be the whole thing, platter and all if you like."

Kitty claims, "Exactly."

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kitty says, "As long as they have the same obvious keywords, it works."

Kinaed asks, "Does that solve the problem in its entirety?"

Deedee claims, "Sounds like yes"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed claims, "Okay, I might leave this aside for awhile then -please give this solution a try... making the long desc the whole item, and the short desc the individual pieces. "

Kinaed pontificates, "Ghed has joined us!"

Ghed claims, "I have"

Kinaed questions to Ghed, "Do you have an update for everyone? :)"

Savagery pontificates, "Lies!"

Savagery states, "Oh. Wait."

Ghed claims, "Okay! I've been busy IRL and that has left me with not a lot of time to staff, but I've done the motions, completed several phome requests, many many recommends, some typos, a fair deal of npc puppets. This includes per-request and silly things like engaging a lone person in a tavern. Or a brothel *sage nods*. Other than that I redid the Golden Coin's wares' strings to better show what is being sold -- a player helped me with this. "

Savagery says, "Nevermind."

Kinaed smiles.

Raspberries claims, "Engaging in a brothel sounds scandalous."

Ghed claims, "A perfect 59-character list"

Kinaed says, "It's how we staff get our perks :)"

Kitty claims, "I always wondered why that one was different."

Ghed claims, "I tinkered with the npc there a fair bit to make a funny greeter script"

Kinaed says, "Okay, I have an anonymous topic to raise for discussion: Requiring sponsors to enter a guild does more harm than good. It puts additional work on the shoulders of new characters, who may be new players, and it adds a barrier to entering the Guild when that is often the first thing people do."

Lans states, "I feel this is a per-guild case basis"

Deedee nods in agreement.

Violet questions, "We do have the alternative to seeking, right?"

Lans claims, "I am reluctant to let an inquisitor in who isn't vouched for"

Deedee states, "We do."

Kinaed says, "For awareness, requiring sponsors only kicks in when the guild has 5+ active members."

Kitty claims, "I feel this is not really accurate. Especially since it is only required when there are a good number of active people in the guild."

Sparkles claims, "The issue sometimes is that 'active' codedly and 'available to help talk to a new player' doesn't always equate."

Kitty claims, "So, having someone else 'vet' them, so to speak, before they speak to the GL makes sense."

Gretchman states, "It would only be a problem if the guild is reclusive and not RPing with the player in question, no? They already need the OK of the GL to get in, unless by requewt board."

Kitty claims, "It can be bypassed with some IP."

Violet queries, "But people -can- bypass seeking and guilding entirely and be placed in the 1st rank of a guild, right?"

Gretchman states, "Request."

Deedee says, "Yes"

Savagery claims, "They can by having the Guildleader spend IP for it."

Deedee says, "That too."

Savagery states, "However the IP needed is a fair amount if I remember right."

Kinaed claims, "From Anonymous: You can still ask someone to vouch for people if it's not a requirement. If it's from guild to guild, then it probably should be guild-set as opposed to a blanket policy."

Gretchman claims, "Five"

Kitty claims, "Yes. And GLs can bypass the sponsor thing with IP, if they so choose, too. So, there are multiple systems to bypass if it is inconvenient."

Salem is idle.

Savagery states, "I think having it guildset would be better."

Violet muses, "No no, I mean other than the IP thing. I thought we made it so people can purchase into the first level with... XP? In chargen"

Deedee nods in agreement.

Kitty claims, "THey can."

Violet states, "But I can't find a help file on it."

Savagery muses, "For example. Joining the Mage guild... well finding active members may be part of the test and all but uh... getting them to vouch is anotehr thing entirely yea?"

Yaslan states, "True. Codedly active is one thing. Being able and willing to have time to rp with new players knowing their way around the guild and theme enough to do so and it gets more complicated when covert guilds are brought into play."

Lewllyn is idle.

Kinaed claims, "They can, it's in the new player zone. I'll check about adding it to HELP SEEK"

Deedee says, "Yes, that's a thing via request board to my understanidng, Violet."

Rey says, "I think it shouldn't be required. A players first experience in the game is joinning a guild. We shouldn't be making it harder for new people to get involved."

Lewllyn is no longer idle.

Lewllyn rubs his nose

Savagery states, "That's one extreme. The other is something closer to... Brotherhood. Joining them could require people to talk with but at the same time, the one you need is the leaders."

Rey says, "All that does is make us seem unfriendly and have people seek out another game."

Kinaed nods at Rey.

Anonymous states, "I'm more in line of liking seeking and the fact that you have to actually interact with people to do so."

Kitty wonders, "I am confused by having a process to enter a guild being to RP with someone being unfriendly?"

Kinaed claims, "I think over the years, we've lost a LOT of new potential players to the seeking system. It'd be fair if it were because the players weren't desirable, but often it came down to GL availability, and how easily they could find RP."

Gretchman states, "It's actually quite hard to get involved, but I don't see sponsorship as the problem really."

Yaslan says, "And some guildleaders have trouble keeping up with thier guilds some are excellent and easy to contact but sometimes you cannot get ahold of people when you need them."

Ghed nods at Kinaed.

Gretchman nods at Yaslan.

Kitty says, "If GLs aren't responsive, that's a policy issue."

Ghed says, "I remember disliking the seeking system as a newbie, but then I had unusually active guild members to help me out"

Savagery says, "As an example from... a couple years ago or so. I joined the Merchant's guild through seeking out 3 people, and made a simple woodworking piece to demonstrate that I had a tiny bit of skill. Because of that I was given positive remarks from everyone I spoke to and joined quickly."

Gretchman states, "Heh."

Deedee says, "Often seekers never event contact the GL"

Savagery claims, "It's a double-edged sword honestly."

Rey says, "Yeh, but as a new person am I going to post a policy to staff or just leave."

Eos questions, "What if instead of seeking being a necessity, finding a sponsor makes you a partial member of the guild?"

Savagery states, "If people aren't around or aren't friendly to the new seeker, it'll drive them away from that guild."

Kinaed nods.

Kinaed says, "People just leave."

Kitty says, "That is no different than if they just automatically get to join and find the same welcome, or lack thereof."

Savagery states, "If people are around and are friendly, it adds a sense of comradery to joining a new guild "

Kitty states, "At least the sponsor system encourages them to seek out other guild members."

Deedee nods.

Savagery claims, "It comes down to the players in the guild they're joining more than anything else."

Anonymous says, "For me its about ensuring that GLs have control over their guild and who joins it. I don't like the idea of people bypassing a GLs authority of who joins by just paying some xp or from some other system, and then they have access to all sorts of guild things and get past xblocks and so on without even having to interact with the guild"

Eos claims, "But it does very much put the onus on new players and puts an additional barrier in front of them."

Kinaed says, "Honestly, from my personal point of view, I'd prefer people could generally just buy into guilds and GLs could kick them out. We haven't moved to the system because, on the whole, I seem to be an outlier in that feeling. We've experimented by opening guilds to people purchasing in, so far the world hasn't blown up."

Gretchman states, "People leave, or people wait around confused for weeks. Sponsoring isn't really the problem, activity seems to be. At least in the cases I've witnessed."

Yaslan claims, "I think mainly it comes down to activity. True activity of players and difficulty levels in getting to thier goals. There is a difference between a reasonable challenge an an uphil a battle with people who are not as invested."

Deedee claims, "Even when there's no sponsor required I usually task a guild member with interviewing a seeker, because it's great RP opportunities for both"

Violet states, "I do think that the seeking is beside the main point. It's made frustrating by inactive members, difficulty finding RP and challenging GLs, but intrinsically I don't see how it's an issue."

Kitty claims, "On the sister MUD, the problem has been people buying in repeatedly, even after being booted."

Kitty says, "Or cycling through every guild in two days, after being fired from every one."

Cat claims, "Okay the question isn#t automatic joining, but not requiring sponsors. As a GL you can always say, 'nah, get someone to recommend you' but if you can't schedule people to get a recommendation happening, becuase irl do be like that sometimes, then that is just sad."

Anonymous claims, "Or making an alt and buying into a rival guild to oocly spy on them."

Rey states, "I think getting approval by the GL is enough. "

Violet claims, "Seeking is fun and good when the guild is active and friendly and the GL is responsive. Seeking is miserable and turns people away when folks things a pain, the people aren't accessible."

Kinaed claims to Anonymous, "I don't like putting all functions so strongly under a GL's control is a good thing, because it creates a single point of failure. And point of fact - most GLs haven't "earned" that authority. Some do, for sure, but by and large, a lot of GLs are apped in or bumped in by need rather than leadership skill."

Eos states, "We could think about banning people from guilds, but that i would do if it becomes and issue here."

Kinaed claims, "Also, I think being afraid of a bad guild member is... like... that's great RP."

Kinaed nods at Violet.

Kitty claims, "If there aren't active people, what at least five or six? Sponsors aren't required."

Violet claims, "I think the minimum 1 hr activity to be active doesn't necessarily translate to 'accessible to a new player'"

Anonymous claims, "I don't understand what you mean by beeing afraid of a bad guild member"

Violet says, "1 hr RP to be active*"

Yaslan says, "I don't think seeking is an issue myself. I think is a deeper thing. But I could be biased."

Kinaed states, "If there aren't active people, guild members are auto-guilded :) To the extreme disdain of the Brotherhood (historically) :)"

Yaslan states, "I think seeking is RP"

Eos states, "Maybe the auto guilding needs to kick in faster"

Kitty states, "I do, too."

Yaslan says, "It gives background and guidance"

Eos says, "A week or two"

Savagery trails off, "As it stands... Bards, Knights, Orderites are all susceptible to people joining without seekers currently"

Kinaed states to Anonymous, "A lot of reasons GLs want to control who can get in is because they're afraid of getting a 'bad guild member' - someone who makes a bad rep for them or makes them have to do damage control."

Yaslan claims, "I honestly think covery guilds need some seeking"

Savagery says, "According to the Census command."

Sparkles states, "All of this brings up if maybe we don't put too much emphasis on people joining a Guild right away versus in general making the new player experience easier."

Kitty states, "Order GL is active, and has been in quite a bit this week."

Kinaed states, "That's what I mean about fear of a 'bad member'. That's how it's been expressed to me before as to why GLs want to control who is coming in."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Gretchman states, "I just thought of a topic I could bring up before the end, if that option's still around."

Kitty claims, "Bards have active GLs, too."

Anonymous muses to Kinaed, "Isn't that a legit IC concern though? If you're head of a guild wouldn't you want to vet people before you let them join, else their bad actions affect everyone else?"

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "But as soon as people log into a game with guilds, they feel like some social success is tied into being accepted by a guild."

Savagery states, "Yes. Those guilds have active GLs."

Savagery states, "However."

Kinaed states, "That's just by virtue of having them."

Savagery says, "Active population is at 4 for each."

Yaslan says, "The bards have a very active GL just not many members right now"

Savagery states, "IF the seekers require people at 5 or more. Then 4 is the "I can join with only a GL approving me." time"

Kitty states, "The Order, historically, doesn't have a whole lot of people. At least, in the last two and a half years that I have been here."

Savagery claims, "That's my point."

Deedee says, "Order's been slim for a looong time."

Kinaed nods.

Savagery claims, "Magic is too much fun? I never did it because I've played Savages and Mages."

Kitty says, "Everyone seeks. The 'not needing a sponsor' needs a certain number of actives. They don't just autojoin, they still need GL approval."

Rey claims, "I think it's finding a balance between making it easier for new players to get involved and GLs not having to take the hit for 'putting' a bad Gl into a position. Basically GL get a bad rep for characters that app in who are bad."

Kitty states, "Only if the GL is inactive is the autojoin done."

Savagery states, "That's my point Kitty."

Kinaed claims, "So... the order is the biggest it's been in a long time. I wonder why that is."

Savagery says, "Sponsors was the word I was thinking of."

Kinaed says to Kitty, "That's how it works right now. GL inactive, auto-guilded on typing seek"

Savagery claims, "Bards, Knights, ORderites are require 0 sponsors currently."

Kitty states to Kinaed, "Right, I was explaining."

Kinaed declares, "Oh, cool!"

Anonymous claims to Kinaed, "IMO, one of the biggest drawing points of the game is the unique magic system... and the Order is anti-magic. *shrug*"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Savagery says, "Due to lack of active members. Even though the GLs are active."

Rey says, "0 sponsors doesn't mean autoguild"

Anonymous states, "In terms of low population"

Kitty states to Kinaed, "Remember that the Order is actually two guilds in one. Clergy, and Knights."

Savagery trails off, "I didn't say autoguild..."

Kinaed nods at Rey.

Kinaed claims to Rey, "I'm not sure how that would work."

Raspberries queries, "We had another topic?"

Savagery says, "Without Sponsors."

Violet states, "I feel like we're all going in circles here"

Kinaed says to Kitty, "I don't see the order having more than one function necessarily being two guilds, though I get why people see it that way with the history."

Kinaed nods at Violet.

Kinaed states to Violet, "I think the reason is that there's a lot of different opinions here."

Savagery claims, "That's the reason behind the lack of Orderites. Always has been ever since the Mages weren't allowed to join even as a Latent."

Kinaed claims to Violet, "It probably merits an hour of discussion on its own :)"

Savagery claims, "I only don't do it as a savage because... Savagery and Order doesn't mix for me."

Kinaed asks of Violet, "Maybe we should move it to the forums for consideration?"

Ghed nods.

Kinaed nods at Savagery.

Raspberries muses, "I think Gretchman had a topic?"

Rey states, "Order experience has been...yeah."

Savagery queries, "Savage Inquisitor when?"

Savagery coughs.

Gretchman claims, "I did, but it can wait for whenever."

Anonymous claims, "A savage with noble rights and prestige? Oh dear."

Kinaed states to Savagery, "Regarding the Order - when I joined TI back in 1999, it did not allow mages, even as latents. Then later it did - and even had a few mage Grand Inquisitors. However, that did not improve the size of the guild."

Savagery claims, "Anonymous... I'll have you know, if I had asked for it at the time. I was going to be a 1st GL as my first Savage. >_>"

Savagery states, "He was quite the horse thief."

Kinaed wonders, "I'd like to focus on the question of seeking maybe?"

Ghed nods.

Ghed states, "And Gretchman had a topic I think"

Kinaed queries, "May I ask, how many of us here think seeking is a good system for new players?"

Anonymous states, "I do"

Kitty states, "I do."

Savagery says, "I do."

Gretchman states, "It's  .... okay."

Gretchman claims, "I can't think of a better way."

Lewllyn says, "I've only tried with physicians but it wasn't hard"

Kinaed queries, "How many think seeking is a net detriment? (Anonymous says don't agree, btw)"

Savagery claims, "It depends on the guild to not be jerks. Which if you don't need to seek to join it and they're jerks you'll have to deal with that anyway."

Cat states, "I don't really like it, but I don't know how to fix it."

Rey claims, "I don't mind the seeking just not the sponsors. "

Deedee states, "I think it's a plus. For me at least, it allows people into the guild that Delana would just deny if they weren't vouched for."

Gretchman states, "The problem seems to lie in guild rather than seeking. It's not like you can find the guildhall or like necessarily really RP as the guild if you get shunted in without the guildeader or member's guidance."

Kinaed says, "Okay, given that someone has a topic - I'm going to close this and put it to Staff Talking Points. I highly encourage players to raise this on the forums to show us your thoughts."

Violet states, "I've really enjoyed my sponsor RP, personally. Idk if it's the perfect system but I think it's better than nothing"

Kinaed wonders to Gretchman, "I heard you have a topic to introduce?"

Sparkles says, "I think part of it is that there's a variety of thoughts on what 'seeking' should represent. But also a lot of people make concepts that largely rely on being able to get into their desired Guilds."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Gretchman asks, "Yeah, could I ask about the state of dual guilding? Is that in the forseeable future?"

Kinaed claims to Gretchman, "We're refactoring the code just to allow dual guilding :)"

Deedee claims, "It's planned for covert guilds presently I believe. I don't think it'll be open to all guilds"

Deedee questions, "Unless that's changed?"

Violet pontificates, "<3 Dual guilding!"

Kitty says, "I believe the comment on the discord from the coders was that it will still be some time."

Gretchman states, "Nah, that's what I meant Deedee."

Kinaed states, "For covert guilds. The way the underlying code is built atm, the guild system is wrapped up in a lot of things, and in some areas, it's poorly written with little documentation."

Kinaed states, "So, it's 100 percent on our agenda as a high priority item... but it's also slow going. "

Salem claims, "I'm working my hardest on it. Sorry, guys."

Eos states, "It wouldve needed us to edit at least 20 files that are intertwined so instead of that we first are fixing the files to not be this bad"

Kinaed says, "(it was the change I sold to Salem and Eos to get them to join staff *cough*)"

Kinaed nods at Eos.

Eos says, "It is the item we want to do right after refactoring is done. but refactoring will take some time. sorry."

Kinaed pontificates, "In good news, we have achieved the first milestone of refactoring!"

Gretchman claims, "Ah, I see, no worries. Just was curious. I'm not on the discord."

Kinaed states, "... hence all of the crashes *cough*"

Kinaed states to Gretchman, ":)"

Deedee asks, "While the refactoring thing is done, do you think we can get bathing in puddles back?"

Eos claims, "Sounds fairly low priority to me, sorry"

Kinaed states, "One of the thing slowing a lot of our code changes is that we don't want to have too many versions of the code lying around."

Kitty states, "Bathing in puddles? Risk of bone shivers. Nice."

Deedee nods in agreement.

Kinaed claims, "Branching code and merging it back is complicated, and we're a small operation without a lot of good quality, cheap tools to manage that."

Violet claims, "Ugh, bone shivers"

Violet queries, "Does Madison benefit from high or low health?"

Deedee states, "High health"

Deedee states, "(but RP benefits from low health)"

Kinaed says, "Okay, we're at the top of the hour :)"

Savagery trails off, "High Health... except for sick people"

Violet states, "I think that's an oversight. Y'all should get more money the sicker we all are xD"

Savagery states, "Then the lower the health the better"

Deedee grins.

Lewllyn claims, "Lol"

Violet says, "Charge people for treatment"

Deedee claims, "Same could be said for reeves"

Violet nods.

Savagery says, "People on death's door are their favorite kind of people."

Savagery states, "I know they were when I was a medic."

Savagery hums innocently.

Kinaed says, "It's the top of the hour :) "

Deedee claims, "Well, this was a lively meeting."

Lans states, "Remember to tithe the Order"

Lans nods.

Kinaed exclaims, "Thank you everyone for attending this week's OOC Chat. I'm sorry we werent' able to resolve a lot of our topics, but it's good to hear them and they won't be forgotten. Please enjoy your week, and we'll see you next week!"

Anonymous queries, "Report moral threats?"

Deedee waves.

Kinaed says, "Sending everyone back to grid in 3.."

Lans states, "You bet"

Kinaed trails off, "2..."

Kinaed trails off, "1..."