Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

[Voxumo]

And quite honestly people don't join knights because it's the opposite of newbie friendly. No one goes around trying to recruit knights, the help files and boards are from 2013 and there is little show that people are willing to change that. So an actual new player in Knights is likely going to have a bad time. If you want an influx of players, you have to go out and get them, not build it and wait till they come. And a big part of the 2013 mentality is the need for master level skills to be allowed to do anything useful in knights, which is just another relict of the past.

Expecting a member of the knights to have mastered a weapon and preferably defense is not asking alot. Don't go placing blame on the policies. I played EM and it was EM before me that instated those policies, though I actually reduced them a bit as the policies then were quite rough, as they required an actual time investment, as even if you had mastered combat, you still had to wait six ooc months to become a full-fledged knight.

I had no issue filling the ranks of my knights with those policies in place. What's changed is people. People are wanting instant reward, they expect a role to be handed to them.

That requirement of mastering a weapon and defense is no different from other guild policies. You want to have the rank of Physician in the Physicians, you damn well better master that medicine. Though the big difference is the physicians have multiple ranks inbetween student and Physician, some very weird ranks admittingly.

And I find it funny you mock such a policy as a relict of the past, yet the past we had thriving numbers in this game, we interesting plots going on at all times, we had people willing to take risks. We weren't this stagnating game that we are now, clinging to threads, trying to stay alive while retaining players, having roles left unfilled for so long, guilds that are barely able to remain proper guilds. Heck the troubadours were flourishing and one of the most powerful guilds at the time. Mock the past of this game all you want, but it was sure as heck far better than the game is currently in terms of enjoyability and player retention.

[Puciek]

And quite honestly people don't join knights because it's the opposite of newbie friendly. No one goes around trying to recruit knights, the help files and boards are from 2013 and there is little show that people are willing to change that. So an actual new player in Knights is likely going to have a bad time. If you want an influx of players, you have to go out and get them, not build it and wait till they come. And a big part of the 2013 mentality is the need for master level skills to be allowed to do anything useful in knights, which is just another relict of the past.

Expecting a member of the knights to have mastered a weapon and preferably defense is not asking alot. Don't go placing blame on the policies. I played EM and it was EM before me that instated those policies, though I actually reduced them a bit as the policies then were quite rough, as they required an actual time investment, as even if you had mastered combat, you still had to wait six ooc months to become a full-fledged knight.

I had no issue filling the ranks of my knights with those policies in place. What's changed is people. People are wanting instant reward, they expect a role to be handed to them.

That requirement of mastering a weapon and defense is no different from other guild policies. You want to have the rank of Physician in the Physicians, you damn well better master that medicine. Though the big difference is the physicians have multiple ranks inbetween student and Physician, some very weird ranks admittingly.

And I find it funny you mock such a policy as a relict of the past, yet the past we had thriving numbers in this game, we interesting plots going on at all times, we had people willing to take risks. We weren't this stagnating game that we are now, clinging to threads, trying to stay alive while retaining players, having roles left unfilled for so long, guilds that are barely able to remain proper guilds. Heck the troubadours were flourishing and one of the most powerful guilds at the time. Mock the past of this game all you want, but it was sure as heck far better than the game is currently in terms of enjoyability and player retention.

Placing blame? It's a realistic assessment of the situation, and in other guilds, there are fun things to do before you reach the final ranks, knights currently do not offer such thing, and especially offer nothing to the entry rank which also holds you down in it despite anything else. Additionally while back then mastering combat skills was very cheap, even without other players, it's not the case anyre. Times have changed, and stuff has to change along with it, if they won't they will die off.

Other guilds adjusted over time, merchants entirely revamped the way they recruit/keep/promote members, Reeves dramatically changed with the shift of leadership 2-3 years ago, physicians carved out nice RP niche they more or less contro and so onl. Of course, that population changes, because as we grow we get tired of some stuff, and want something else instead. Ans for someone who dislikes instant gratification, you sure vote strongly against removal of buying silver, and subsequently skills.

And I don't see the game as dying at all, no idea where you get this. RP is very much alive, GMT population is stronger than ever with a lot of interesting stuff going on and US is also doing pretty well. Actually, the GMT tz really flourished in last 2 years, and US maybe went down a bit, but by not much. Less than other TI-like muds, who while had some population 3-5 years ago, now have none, or close to none players at all.

Not sure also why would you say that there are no interesting plots going on, somehow I am involved in plenty of them, and also see/do risk taking, so that seems like making guesses, rather than actual facts.

[Voxumo]

Has any of the knights bothered to actually speak to their EM about changes? ICly or oocly? This is a common occurrence with the Knights. They are always so eager to complain, but they never take the initiative to actually speak to the only person who can change the way the Knights are ran, change their policies.

And Puciek, that's not instant gratification. If I join a game and such a policy is part of the game for many years, am I suddenly in the wrong for being against it's removal when it was the norm for many years? No. I'm mostly against assets because it's such a bloody mess right now, It's a great idea, but it's been executed so poorly thus far. Much of the game's economy is still based in the previous system of purchase silver, the standards and rates are based in that system.

And I don't deny that there many be interesting side plots ran here and there, or personal plots ongoing. That's not what I'm speaking about, I'm speaking about plots that engage a wide range of the players, not just those your comfortable with And even back then smaller, personal plots often found ways to extend beyond the group they were targeted towards. As an example, when I played Proconsul, said character suspected another character, who was an albino mind you, of being a mage and influencing the queen of which he was close to. Said Proconsul tried going to the order with his concerns, they did nothing, so instead he hired the Brotherhood to take care of his issue, and they did in exchange for getting access to a prisoner of the reeves temporarily. Of course this ended with my characters death, but it was a plot that expanded for several months, and involved far more people than it reasonably should.

And I don't see the game as dying at all, no idea where you get this.

Have you looked at the Brotherhood, the Troubadours, the Reeves, the Knights/Order? Is your head so deep into the sand of denial that you believe the numbers for these guilds are normal? 75% of our guilds barely have anyone in them. And sure GMT may be prospering, but there's more timezones, or really time of days than just that small bit. I used to be able to log on anytime of the day, morning, afternoon, or night and find rp, find people hanging out at public locations. Not so much nowadays unless its during that one time of day. Hop on after midnight in my timezone, good luck finding anyone to rp with, despite there being numerous people on, but nobody with where. And even if you take the initiative and go to a public location with where on, have fun hoping somebody takes your bait.

The game is not fine. We may have alot of players during a stretch of specific time, but that doesn't mean a game is doing well. This game is dying and nobody is acknowledging it because that would mean acknowledging we mucked up somewhere.

[Puciek]

First, you praise that most of your RP is private, now you complain about not enough public rp - pick a side. You claim that 75% of guild barely have anyone in them, let's test that:
merchants - highly functional
reeves - momentarily slump, with quite a bit of OOC reasons behind it, but still is and was functional and now with apps open to make it better (which are already getting filled)
brotherhood - quite alive and doing shit, at least was a few weeks ago
order - alive and functional, though went through a slump due to an insanely high mortality rate of orderites (fixed now it seems and already raising nicely in numbers)
knights - also actually functional now, though a bit bare in ranks
manus - very well alive and kicking
troubadours - parties have performances, leadership is highly active, a couple of the members too. Not the former glory, but doing alright.

To have 75% non-functional guilds that mean out of 7 guilds 5 would have to not be working, and that is far from reality. So if that is your measure of dying, your yard stick is screwed up. And I really wonder why do you keep playing as you seem to dislike a lot of the existing population and the game, thinking that it's headed for doom.

[Puciek]

This is to take away the offtopic posts from main thread.

[Voxumo]

Welp since the topic was created, might as well post what my reply was originally going to be.

I didn't praise that my rp was private, I praised the fact that the private rp I did have was often meaningful. I shouldn't have to pick a side. If I feel like wanting public rp, I should be able to without having to forsake private rp.

The knights/Order is doing fine? They have seven members between them according to census. That's 3 in one side, 4 in the other. That's not fine. At least not compared to when we often had 7+ in the knights alone. The Troubadours? What bloody parties are you at that your seeing live performances by troubadours? Not just some little mood stating they are. We used to have actual, live troubadours at events. We often had plays and other such performances at the Hollow Globe. The last time there was a play in the troubadours, specifically the Hollow Globe Theatre was a year and a half ago, unless I'm forgetting one.

In regards to the reeves... Unless I'm missing something, the only active reeves I'm aware of currently is Rimilde, Hunapo and Jozafet... Do correct me if I'm wrong on that number. Though something tells me I'm not since at the last ooc meeting one of their members were asking, practically begging for people to join.

And if the brotherhood were really doing as good as you claim, why are they seeking applications? Applications only used to be sent out when a guild was in need of numbers, or for specific roles such as second gls.

Yes, these many Guilds might be doing well given the current standards, but compared to past versions of the guilds, they are but husks.

You want to know why I stay in this game despite hating it most of the time? Because I already invested too much time in it just to forsake it. I care too deeply for this game on a personal level to just leave. And that's a mighty huge presumption to make Puciek, that I dislike alot of the existing population. What I dislike is people who prance about like they are so much better than everyone else, that just because they are doing well in the game that everyone else must be doing well. That their example is the example everyone else should live by. Those are people I have a problem with. And I typically stay to spite them.

[Rabek]

Yes, these many Guilds might be doing well given the current standards, but compared to past versions of the guilds, they are but husks.

You want to know why I stay in this game despite hating it most of the time? Because I already invested too much time in it just to forsake it. I care too deeply for this game on a personal level to just leave. And that's a mighty huge presumption to make Puciek, that I dislike alot of the existing population. What I dislike is people who prance about like they are so much better than everyone else, that just because they are doing well in the game that everyone else must be doing well. That their example is the example everyone else should live by. Those are people I have a problem with. And I typically stay to spite them.

This. So much this.

I've been playing TI in various incarnations off-and-on since the first. The game is deteriorating quickly. Its population is dwindling while other RP MU*s are maintaining population fairly well. I haven't made a new character after the last one died because there's simply nothing to do. Most of my last character was spent going weeks between logins simply due to boredom and unresponsive staff. I kept coming back because I'm invested here, and it's a fairly unique game. But unique code doesn't save a game from... the various issues TI has these days. I have some very strong opinions as to what those issues are, but I don't feel like it's appropriate to go over them here. That would likely be derailing a derail thread.

[Voxumo]

Yes, these many Guilds might be doing well given the current standards, but compared to past versions of the guilds, they are but husks.

You want to know why I stay in this game despite hating it most of the time? Because I already invested too much time in it just to forsake it. I care too deeply for this game on a personal level to just leave. And that's a mighty huge presumption to make Puciek, that I dislike alot of the existing population. What I dislike is people who prance about like they are so much better than everyone else, that just because they are doing well in the game that everyone else must be doing well. That their example is the example everyone else should live by. Those are people I have a problem with. And I typically stay to spite them.

This. So much this.

I've been playing TI in various incarnations off-and-on since the first. The game is deteriorating quickly. Its population is dwindling while other RP MU*s are maintaining population fairly well. I haven't made a new character after the last one died because there's simply nothing to do. Most of my last character was spent going weeks between logins simply due to boredom and unresponsive staff. I kept coming back because I'm invested here, and it's a fairly unique game. But unique code doesn't save a game from... the various issues TI has these days. I have some very strong opinions as to what those issues are, but I don't feel like it's appropriate to go over them here. That would likely be derailing a derail thread.

Seriously think a poll/topic would be in order for this type of discussion as Chronodbu suggested in the original topic, but only staff can create polls. I mean several people 3, possibly 4, have voiced similar concerns.

[Famine]

Nothing is stopping you from creating an external poll and linking it? Right?

[Famine]

You want to know why I stay in this game despite hating it most of the time? Because I already invested too much time in it just to forsake it. I care too deeply for this game on a personal level to just leave. And that's a mighty huge presumption to make Puciek, that I dislike alot of the existing population. What I dislike is people who prance about like they are so much better than everyone else, that just because they are doing well in the game that everyone else must be doing well. That their example is the example everyone else should live by. Those are people I have a problem with. And I typically stay to spite them.

I will say this as a new player here.

A couple of months ago, there was no leader of the Brotherhood. I tried to join and got told to hold until one was established or something. I didn't leave for that as much as work got crazy for me and didn't have time, but it was a downer I couldn't join right away.

From my perspective, as a criminal player, the RP here is extremely slow. Most of my RP revolves around bars as it's the only real location people seem to go to outside of the Crossroads or Church Square. Right now, as I type, there is really only 2 people in The Queen Inn, which I don't go to for RP reasons while the rest are off elsewhere or hiding in private. Yet there is like 16 people on WHO.

It's pretty much like this most of my casual playtime. Lots and lots of sitting around waiting. Extremely boring, but I do it mostly because when I do get into a good RP session, it does feel worth the wait. Yet, this downtime is exactly why I can't get my MUD friends to play here. Who really has time to sit around for so long just to RP in a bar?

When I tried to do a non-criminal character and focus on crafting/selling on the streets, I got smacked down in-RP to stop. Thus, I gave up that idea mainly because I don't want to follow the same linear path of the Merchants or whatever just to enjoy myself. Now it's back to sitting and waiting for hours on in for what looks to be 10 to 20 character AFK on the MUD to come alive.