Opening up Plots to More Players

[Kuzco]

There's no need to be disrespectful.

[Myrella]

There's no need to be a disrespectful asshole.

I'm just trying to help.

[Evrald]

That's less helpful and more disrespectful and hurtful for no reason. Keep it to yourself.

[Taunya]

For what it's worth, I didn't read it as "plots suck because staff sucks", but more as "they're not good because they require the attention of staff to run them."

Edit: Ah... re-reading though.

[wimple]

I may be an oddball, because I generally like the plot system and use it (or try and encourage its use for others, helping them learn the system). I really dislike the idea of mandatory rumors. A bonus for rumors might be easier, as there are cases where might be manageable middle ground. I often don't include rumor in the plot system but will add a rumor to something I am doing afterwards in a plot - without knowing the outcome, sometimes it's hard to say what the rumor would even be. I think people already are pretty liberal with sharing plots as is, when I was in a guild they were often guild wide or attached to several guilds if multiple guild were involved. If something is added as mandatory, there should be a way around it for secrecy, either additional GP or $$$ for keeping mouths shut.

We already have a ton of systems for people to be abreast and involved in what is going on - rumors, IC board, jobs, RP hooks, etc. Are these systems lacking so substantially that plots need to be mandatorily added to this as well?

[Kuzco]

I agree with wimple. Perhaps a minor penalty could be added for not using a rumor, like 1 qp, but a mandatory rumor would make me want to use plots less, specially for shady stuff. I do think that plots could use with more rumors though, as a general, broad rule of thumb!

[galaxgal]

I think that it is a dire misunderstanding of how and why Plots are generally used to think that exposing them to a public-facing audience will result in more on-grid RP. RPA plots are last-resort Staff storytelling measures in lieu of code arbitration, involve semi-closed actions, and have closed results by design.

The vast majority involve simple information gathering; the rest largely being gathering responses from feature NPCs. If a character can be called in to contribute to a plot, it is probably already shared to them.

I suppose knowing about someone else's plot lets you interfere with or oppose it, but if the purpose is to provide satisfying player-on-player conflict, a system entirely bent on Staff intervention is not a wise place to design this.

I don't see what mandatory rumors will change about this.

[Sparkles]

I suppose knowing about someone else's plot lets you interfere with or oppose it, but if the purpose is to provide satisfying player-on-player conflict, a system entirely bent on Staff intervention is not a wise place to design this.

That could likely be an entire conversation in and of itself with the question of ... should plots allow for interference or opposition if they affect other PCs?

[Yinadele]

I think that it is a dire misunderstanding of how and why Plots are generally used to think that exposing them to a public-facing audience will result in more on-grid RP. RPA plots are last-resort Staff storytelling measures in lieu of code arbitration, involve semi-closed actions, and have closed results by design.

The vast majority involve simple information gathering; the rest largely being gathering responses from feature NPCs. If a character can be called in to contribute to a plot, it is probably already shared to them.

I suppose knowing about someone else's plot lets you interfere with or oppose it, but if the purpose is to provide satisfying player-on-player conflict, a system entirely bent on Staff intervention is not a wise place to design this.

I don't see what mandatory rumors will change about this.

Normally, information gathering can be scouted by knowing other PCs, keeping tabs, having allies.
Plots, by nature, are using NPCs where PCs and code cannot suffice in most cases.
Being capable of knowing more about other players' actions allows more informed RP and considerations, and provokes thought on the moves they can do.

I admit, my general perspective comes from RP games wherein OOC obfuscation is almost impossible unless you're going through other PCs and causing RP by coordinating with them. I prefer mandatory rumors on start rather than on resolution, truthfully; Silent actions behind closed doors is a net nothing for response from other players. Not knowing what's happened in general with plots and investigations can prompt paranoia that something may be directed about them.

but if the purpose is to provide satisfying player-on-player conflict, a system entirely bent on Staff intervention is not a wise place to design this.

I have to disagree with this statement; This is exactly where some sort of crumbtrail automatically left for IC consideration should be left. Most times it probably won't cause PVP, but as I will illustrate, that is not necessary.

Especially for smaller players the rumor system provides a way to keep in the loop on the actions of other PCs- And these are ones that otherwise won't get recorded or shown, because no other PCs are involved.

Consistency is important, because the general purpose of automated systems like this in TI is because the ideal function is that staff does not arbitrate on how 'meaningful' your RP has to be.

Therefore, all plots-
- or, let's be more specific about the usual cause for plots; attempts at gathering info/replies from NPCs rather PCs-
- should be treated like they are meaningful enough to garner some interest from someone.

Whether or not it provokes PvP is secondary to whether or not it provides something to player engagement, which even PvP is just a vessel for.
Just showing plot-making characters as active helps this.
Just showing plot-making characters are looking into things in a way another PC can observe helps this.

Even if you're not seeking to interfere or compete, this is provided with automated rumors at plot start, which is why I think it is a reasonable addition.

[galaxgal]

Look, if you want to see a rumor or headerline for every plot - I'm not in opposition. Go for it. I just think that most players in favor of this will be disappointed when they see how vague or irrelevant most of the 'hooks' that will end up facing them will be.