My little seven- (or maybe eight- now) year-old orphan character.Kinaed wrote:I'm ignorant. Phoebe?
A Matter of the Patriarchy
Turned this into a poll. Please respond, in all seriousness. I'm not sure how many people support what.
From the perspective of the staff holding the patriarchy as an NPC role, this is against our current bent to put the power in player hands, but I do note that there's a sense that someone has to step between and arbitrate it when the really high powered players butt heads. In any case, I'm still not sure what the pbase as a whole would like to see.
Thanks for helping us with this!
-Kinky
From the perspective of the staff holding the patriarchy as an NPC role, this is against our current bent to put the power in player hands, but I do note that there's a sense that someone has to step between and arbitrate it when the really high powered players butt heads. In any case, I'm still not sure what the pbase as a whole would like to see.
Thanks for helping us with this!
-Kinky
As I understand, it's presently hard enough finding enough PCs to fill the GL positions. Adding what is, effectively, another GL position seems unwise. Especially one as important as this. I personally vote for either an NPC, or it gets folded into a position that's already covered by PCs without needing more.
Sorry to be a pain, but having the two options of PC and NPC tied, and three middle votes, I thought I'd better remove the failing votes and request a revote of the most popular options. May I request people re-vote, please?
Thank you sincerely for your patience here.
Warm regards,
Kinky
Thank you sincerely for your patience here.
Warm regards,
Kinky
If there has to be one, it should be NPC. The Order goes through people at a ridiculous rate. Cardinals are already big deals and they go through them like candy. An actual Patriarch wouldn't last. And finding players for GL Positions with the small player base, as someone else said, would be difficult.
That said, I don't understand how having an NPC is even an option. It'd be whoever has the most royal blood, right? But if we find the person with the most royal blood, then wouldn't they have the most claim to the throne? It seems like the logical thing, with the ab Harmon line dead, is that the Patriarchy dies. This just means that the Synod makes the decisions from here on out and the Cardinal continues to be effectively the most important Orderite in the realm. I would think this gives players (and each Cardinal) space to lead the Church where they want, particularly with splits over theology, which might make the guild more interesting than it is now to players.
Just my two cents.
That said, I don't understand how having an NPC is even an option. It'd be whoever has the most royal blood, right? But if we find the person with the most royal blood, then wouldn't they have the most claim to the throne? It seems like the logical thing, with the ab Harmon line dead, is that the Patriarchy dies. This just means that the Synod makes the decisions from here on out and the Cardinal continues to be effectively the most important Orderite in the realm. I would think this gives players (and each Cardinal) space to lead the Church where they want, particularly with splits over theology, which might make the guild more interesting than it is now to players.
Just my two cents.
The patriarchy is an office that presides, monarch-like, over the holy state. Dav was a secular monarch presiding over Lithmore, but when he went off and did his holy stuff and founded his church, he handed over the day to day church to its bishops, etc, and retained the patriarch title as a symbol of ownership. The Holy Order, who theoretically answers to the Lord of the Springs (God), kept its faith with the ab Harmons because of their holy significance.
Our storyline is that the ab Harmons died out - mostly, at least. The patriarchy, however, is still the 'king' of the Order. The title and office didn't disappear - that's a matter of structure of the church. However, someone without ab Harmon blood (arguably, but not necessarily) could be viewed as not being legitimate as the reasoning for keeping the patriarchy with the ab Harmons was their lineage to Dav. Equally, they could be viewed as legitimate, saying that Divine Right was handed to them when they assumed the throne.
This being said, I think there's IC activities that happened that argue both ways for the patriarchy remaining with him or being pulled. The vote of the High Synod (the right people to make the decision), said to pull it.
The question of whether or not the monarch can retain the patriarchy, is in my mind, political. It could have been left coupled with the Monarchy as easily as it could be split off, albeit both ways have interesting effects in plot and game-play mechanic. However, if we look at the structure of the church, if the patriarchy is removed, the leaders are decentralized to each duchy - which I think would cause infighting and possibly separatism with the other duchies. So, for structure and direction, and simplicity of function, I don't think the Holy Order would get rid of the patriarchy. Certainly we, as the staff, can't afford to do it. We've only got four staff members at the moment, and even with more, it'd be a massive undertaking.
Tobin was deposed by the High Synod (kinda like if he had been deposed by the Dukes) because he didn't keep the Order happy. What I could see happening right now is what we are seeing happening - people being caught in the middle and picking loyalties. This is absolutely fine, and it may even lead to PC turnover in the roles that remain, new structures arising, etc. That's all fine and dandy so long as it remains on the player level as opposed to the 'game's theme is redone level.
As a staff member, my main concern is making sure that the structures that arise and whatnot allow the game's Inquisition theme to remain stable and playable. This is separate from the personalities involved, and I have to say - if people have their druthers, I do expect to see some GLs ousted, murdered, excommunicated, exiled, or what-have-you turmoil over this whole thing.
However, based on the vote, the game structure to come out of it looks like the patriarchy will probably going to be handed to an NPC. At this stage, I think the question is - will it be someone with a bunch of ab Harmon blood? Will it be a member of the Holy Order elected by the High Synod? Someone else? Not sure yet. Stay tuned.
Our storyline is that the ab Harmons died out - mostly, at least. The patriarchy, however, is still the 'king' of the Order. The title and office didn't disappear - that's a matter of structure of the church. However, someone without ab Harmon blood (arguably, but not necessarily) could be viewed as not being legitimate as the reasoning for keeping the patriarchy with the ab Harmons was their lineage to Dav. Equally, they could be viewed as legitimate, saying that Divine Right was handed to them when they assumed the throne.
This being said, I think there's IC activities that happened that argue both ways for the patriarchy remaining with him or being pulled. The vote of the High Synod (the right people to make the decision), said to pull it.
The question of whether or not the monarch can retain the patriarchy, is in my mind, political. It could have been left coupled with the Monarchy as easily as it could be split off, albeit both ways have interesting effects in plot and game-play mechanic. However, if we look at the structure of the church, if the patriarchy is removed, the leaders are decentralized to each duchy - which I think would cause infighting and possibly separatism with the other duchies. So, for structure and direction, and simplicity of function, I don't think the Holy Order would get rid of the patriarchy. Certainly we, as the staff, can't afford to do it. We've only got four staff members at the moment, and even with more, it'd be a massive undertaking.
Tobin was deposed by the High Synod (kinda like if he had been deposed by the Dukes) because he didn't keep the Order happy. What I could see happening right now is what we are seeing happening - people being caught in the middle and picking loyalties. This is absolutely fine, and it may even lead to PC turnover in the roles that remain, new structures arising, etc. That's all fine and dandy so long as it remains on the player level as opposed to the 'game's theme is redone level.
As a staff member, my main concern is making sure that the structures that arise and whatnot allow the game's Inquisition theme to remain stable and playable. This is separate from the personalities involved, and I have to say - if people have their druthers, I do expect to see some GLs ousted, murdered, excommunicated, exiled, or what-have-you turmoil over this whole thing.
However, based on the vote, the game structure to come out of it looks like the patriarchy will probably going to be handed to an NPC. At this stage, I think the question is - will it be someone with a bunch of ab Harmon blood? Will it be a member of the Holy Order elected by the High Synod? Someone else? Not sure yet. Stay tuned.
And the next time I come back to the thread, it's now a 5-4 vote instead of a 6-3? Heh.
Well, I think I'm going to do what really ought to be done a bit earlier along and contact Tobin and Cedany, then have a chat. Ultimately, whereas I don't think the patriarchy would be destroyed, I have to admit... I don't really want the patriarch to be an NPC. We've had them before, they're too much work.
The staff are now discussing other, related matters which I'll awaken on another thread.
Well, I think I'm going to do what really ought to be done a bit earlier along and contact Tobin and Cedany, then have a chat. Ultimately, whereas I don't think the patriarchy would be destroyed, I have to admit... I don't really want the patriarch to be an NPC. We've had them before, they're too much work.
The staff are now discussing other, related matters which I'll awaken on another thread.
Partly my fault, I've been changing my vote back and forth, I keep waffling on the idea - as much as I like the idea, there are just a few too many issues I have with it. With the race to the throne, there was a lot of input from a lot of characters, from the knights to the reeves to the thieves to the merchants. It was a major event IC, and had an impact on theme.
With the patriarchy, it will be a huge decision IC, taken on by a few members of a single guild that has the potential to have huge, huge, huge repercussions.
I feel like there should be more IC output, if we're going to do this with a PC patriarch. Have a 'Race to the Mitre' or something.
With the patriarchy, it will be a huge decision IC, taken on by a few members of a single guild that has the potential to have huge, huge, huge repercussions.
I feel like there should be more IC output, if we're going to do this with a PC patriarch. Have a 'Race to the Mitre' or something.
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