Why use magic?

[Puciek]

Well, the connection is supposed to come during latency as you get awakened. If that part of process is skipped then indeed mage is a very tough sell to play as everything pixie said is true.
So I would say that the key to playing a mage is not to skip the latent period. Yes, you are very vulnerable in that period, but as a result when you get awakened you will not be alone. And if you get caught before someone awakens you, it should not be a huge loss.

[Lily]

Edit: Rereading this, it sounds a lot more critical than I intended it to be. Lily, you really should consider a mage at some point! There are some long-standing issues, but there IS fun to be had in it.

No worries! And I was afraid that I came across as too critical--I know I've been talking a lot about how I'd want certain things to be different, and that's not me trying to be mean, it's just when I have potential personal stakes in things I tend to talk about them overtly much, sometimes not using the best of words.

I guess it makes sense that lots of mages go the kidnapping/shadow/etc., route, because otherwise there seems to be not much to do that involves interacting with non-mages with magic. Still, I can't help but wonder if there can't be say, a secret mage society of herbalists--not hardcoded, but player arranged, where they use magic to help grow their plants. If people worry that mage herbalists would have an unfair advantage vs. non-mage herbalists, well, I think that's fair because of the risk of being a mage.

Perhaps magic can be used to enhance already existing skills? So say, a mage using magic to aid in their woodworking, and other such things. Right now, from what I'm reading, most magic tends to fall under being used for hiding, survival (such as helping to stop from drowning), and more nefarious/trickster purposes (such as shadows, kidnapping, etc.). I'd think it'd be a lot more neat for a mage to be able to do things that don't fall into the above categories. Maybe they can and often do, but from what I hear, it's a very minor part if any, which makes me reluctant to invest the time needed to build a mage character if I won't get many utility spells that aren't survival/trickster/etc., spells.

And I agree that latency/the awakening process seems to be a good setup for connecting with other mages, though perhaps it doesn't work out as perfectly in practice? I don't know. Anyways, I know that lots of people love the current system, whatever it is, I'm just saying currently it's not for me, from what I hear, but it'd be neat if it was, that's all.

[Puciek]

Well many people skip latency, either with IC events that awaken mages or by spending QP on it (less common I would imagine). There also are periods where you are allowed to start with awakened mage.

And you have to understand that while most spells are indeed there to aid them in evil ways, mages ARE supposed to be evil. Because the taint of magic is twisting their brains in a way to make them do evil things (this is cliff notes of IC explanation of how taint twists the brains). So they are not supposed to just open a herb garden and outgrow the competition into ruin (although they have spells that do help with certain economic aspects quite a lot), but they are expected to act up on the taint and, well, do "evil" for one reason or another. Either to cause terror, or to further they power, or something other twisted and certainly not nice. Does not mean your character has to behave like a horses behind all the time, but think of Dexter from the series, well, Dexter. Normal day-to-day life, and secrets in the night that draw him to do what he does.

I really do recommend playing a mage, but certainly not as first character. Not because of the death, but because the learning curve gets couple times steeper when playing one. And it is already hard enough.

[Lily]

And you have to understand that while most spells are indeed there to aid them in evil ways, mages ARE supposed to be evil. Because the taint of magic is twisting their brains in a way to make them do evil things (this is cliff notes of IC explanation of how taint twists the brains).

Is this described anywhere? Since this would be super useful to inform anyone who is considering playing a mage. That sentence right there shows me that being a mage will likely never be for me, and that's fine. The thing is, I never heard this before. I heard that it was what you make of it, that there are supposedly neutral and such utility spells, etc. But finding out that they are evil, though of course they could try to fight that evil part of themselves, gives people a lot of info when it comes to deciding on if they want to be one.

The problem is, while with the other classes, you have an idea about what you'll be able to do, with mages, you have to spend possibly dozens of hours to even find out a taste of what's available. I'm not saying that should change, I'm just saying that uncertainty will dissuade some people to try playing a mage. It is what it is. But thanks, that info was super helpful.

[Puciek]

Not sure if there is a public helpfile on it, but this is the explanation that was passed on mages channel whenever it was brought up. May actually be a good idea to form this into an actual helpfile.

[Applesauce]

And you have to understand that while most spells are indeed there to aid them in evil ways, mages ARE supposed to be evil. Because the taint of magic is twisting their brains in a way to make them do evil things (this is cliff notes of IC explanation of how taint twists the brains).

Is this described anywhere? Since this would be super useful to inform anyone who is considering playing a mage.

When people perform certain actions, such as murdering, lying, stealing, and casting spells widely regarded (even among mages) as being immoral, they accrue something known as "taint." Taint is considered to be evil and magical in nature and can be manipulated by certain spells. All players can accrue taint, however, whether or not they are mages.

So technically YES magic generates actual "taint", and since the non-magical actions it's grouped with include things like murder and such, it is defined as a Bad Thing by the code. I'm not sure there's a way to check your current "rank" or whatever, so it's not exactly easy to trace your descent into evil.

[Lily]

Hmm, that's interesting. I either forgot about or didn't know to check that helpfile. Though the wording is vague. Does it mean 'casting spells' in general, or, casting spells which are considered to be immoral by most people? Seems like it might just be saying that casting bad spells produces taint, and also extra taint because said bad spells also involve doing bad actions, but good/neutral spells don't produce taint?

[Dice]

I don't agree at all with what Puciek is saying - it is not FACT that magic makes people descend into evil. It's a theory put forth by the Order that many mages do say can be true, but it's not something mages are required to RP. Mages are 100% fine RPing just using their magic in their day-to-day lives to aid whatever they were doing otherwise... a mage herbalist is a perfectly good concept.

In other words... ICly, good Davites believe that magic makes mages evil. If you look at the population of PC mages, there is very good reason to believe this. However, mages are under no obligation to play as 'evil' as if it is a scientific law of nature that using spells will make you evil.

[Puciek]

I don't agree at all with what Puciek is saying - it is not FACT that magic makes people descend into evil. It's a theory put forth by the Order that many mages do say can be true, but it's not something mages are required to RP. Mages are 100% fine RPing just using their magic in their day-to-day lives to aid whatever they were doing otherwise... a mage herbalist is a perfectly good concept.

In other words... ICly, good Davites believe that magic makes mages evil. If you look at the population of PC mages, there is very good reason to believe this. However, mages are under no obligation to play as 'evil' as if it is a scientific law of nature that using spells will make you evil.

But what do you base the disagreement on? I am just relaying what was explained to me by staff, admittedly few years ago but still. If something has changed in that part then I am happy to be educated. Sounds like good topic to bring on OOC meeting today.

[BlackSoul566]

The helpfile about Taint said that only certain spells make mages 'evil'. So if mages don't use those certain spells, I'd have to agree with Dice. There is no scientific law that says that all Mages turn evil, it's just a very, very common thing. Which, if you ask me, sounds better.