The End of the Regency

[Zeita]

I'm sorry if this post meanders somewhat- a lot of ground to cover, and I do wish we could divorce the discussion of the continuation of Court from the introduction of the Council, but I address both below.

Gerolf does raise a very good point in that a lot (if not all) of the current guildleaders do sit on top of large inter and intra-ducal organisations and that the adjustment of focus may be a difficult sell in the current milieu. I think for this sort of change, if it is indeed the way we want to go, should be a a thoroughly holistic one if we want to make it sticky and real. For such a major theme reboot and refocus such as this, I would probably suggest a complete refresh, wipe out the existing players and create a blank slate to work from with everyone coming in at a lower power tier and probably not allowing nobles at all. Make the city conceptually and literally bigger and more complex. Turn Lithmore City into a holy city state with some quasi independence from the rest of the kingdom. I'm just not sure that there is enough interesting meat -at present, in the current setting- to be chewed on and fought over in something solely city focused. However, for various reasons, I don't think this will fly- asking everyone to lose their current characters won't be acceptable to the majority.

As an alternative, we could, instead, maintain Court alongside this Council- albeit, without the broader paintbrush it has at present, or with a gutted-out list of responsibilities, Court and TI will lose much of the allure for me personally. I like playing in a broader world, it is a rich setting and to see it downplayed would be disappointing and somewhat hollow. It feels like I'm being pushed out of the game as the setting and character I play and enjoy playing are no longer supported with the 'latest release'.

Since the current state of court has been raised, my personal take on court GLship is 'broad church' that would have a default invitation to any noble and includes roles for gentry and freemen that have an interest in Court RP.

To address another raised point: I've never personally encountered the 'Court members don't have a role' concern. It isn't handed to you on a platter as it is for a lot of guilds, but with a little forward thinking and proactivity, there is plenty for the Court to do. The current down trough in Court activity and productivity has a lot of things contributing into it that I'm not comfortable discussing here, but there are valid reasons, and reasons that could be moved around and over without much ado.

To bring it all together and to integrate the City Council into the current in a way that will be inclusive... My ideal would be to maintain the Court as is and to bring the Council inside of it. The Court is already set up to be a vehicle for politics- if you include (via some code changes to allow it) the leaders of the guilds and add in a 'Citizen Representative' to include the Mayor of Lithmore (I don't like the term Seneschal for the role and we already have a Seneschal). It could then functionally serve the same role as that which is envisioned for the City Council without leaving anyone out in the cold.

Bottom line, if it isn't broken (and it frankly isn't broken) don't fix it. But there is certainly room for improvement- so lets improve the tools and systems we have in place already.

[Voxumo]

Trying to answer some questions:
- Is the City Council actually a guild... we haven't decided. We just decided it was a group of people comprising a certain demographics The whole rolling Court into it was because we expected Court to feel ownership over the City Council's agenda and because our plot staff are struggling with "international RPA" which has no framework and various levels of undefined impacts to the game that make how successful people are using it actually based more on 'how creative' they are and how 'the staff feels when they pick up the request' than a rigorous framework.

- The theme reason is exactly as stated - the Regency is over and the Queen is taking charge. Theref'ore a regent can no longer exist. If the regency government doesn't exist, then something must replace it.

- With regards to resistance to where the theme is going, I think that this is a good, sensible decision for the game. Some people will naturally feel the pain of loss - I saw the "I don't like change!" posts earlier .. but I think that with real environmental rewards, the play will become more fun. I take your point about only already established, powerful people being involved, and I've wondered if maybe other people, non-city council, should be able to sway the "vote" if they exercise their influence (IP).

Firstly thank you for answering the questions I excluded from the quote. I have no qualms with those answers hence why I didn't include them.

However regarding city council being a guild or not, the only reason I asked this because I was wondering how it would work with GLs, since they can't dual-guild and well they would be a major part of it. That was mainly the only reason I asked.

As for the theme reason, I direct you to the comment I made in response to Good Dragon... The court guild has existed before in the past when there were kings and queens... So again I ask what would be the theme answer for the massive shift? I mean there has to be answer especially if people who were in court no longer are. What are they suppose to say when asked why they no longer hold the 'insert' role? Just shrug and say they don't know? I mean heck I'll play the devil's advocate icly and be that one person who asks just if it means we can get an established ic reason. I mean this isn't just one person your displacing like making the cardinal a npc, your are literately displacing an entire guild, making said guild non-existant.

With regard to international rpa... I can understand how it could be frustrating to staff, but ultimately Is this not about rp? And typically those who explain what they are doing more fully benefit greater? By forcing plot to a rigorous , set, framework, you are essentially stifling creativity. I mean I wouldn't want my plots being judged solely on a checklist of requirements, but to also allow that human aspect of 'Hmm, well this could be doable'. I mean I'm not saying it will be a checklist but when you say rigorous I hear 'Set requirements'

And as for non-council influence, I'd be all over this, because well I'm tired of it always being the same people deciding everything theme wise, with very little possibility for the semi-average player to have some form of a say. I mean what is city if it doesn't have people?

[Temi]

However regarding city council being a guild or not, the only reason I asked this because I was wondering how it would work with GLs, since they can't dual-guild and well they would be a major part of it. That was mainly the only reason I asked.

At this point, we are looking at the guild vs not as a technical sort of decision. Depending on how it will be better to code it, it could go either way. GLs will be able to be in both it and their guild, however we handle it.

As for the theme reason, I direct you to the comment I made in response to Good Dragon... The court guild has existed before in the past when there were kings and queens... So again I ask what would be the theme answer for the massive shift? I mean there has to be answer especially if people who were in court no longer are. What are they suppose to say when asked why they no longer hold the 'insert' role? Just shrug and say they don't know? I mean heck I'll play the devil's advocate icly and be that one person who asks just if it means we can get an established ic reason. I mean this isn't just one person your displacing like making the cardinal a npc, your are literately displacing an entire guild, making said guild non-existant.

We don't have to do this for Caitrin to come of age. It isn't a foregone conclusion based on that. But things -will- change at that point, and we are using this opportunity when things will change to change some other things we think will need to change. I am working on the plot sort of stuff for the decisions Caitrin will make to bring us to this. ICly, we don't intend to remove anyone from their IC positions besides the regent; who does need removed for obvious reasons. There is just a strong likelihood we are discussing with this that new ones won't be appointed.

With regard to international rpa... I can understand how it could be frustrating to staff, but ultimately Is this not about rp? And typically those who explain what they are doing more fully benefit greater? By forcing plot to a rigorous , set, framework, you are essentially stifling creativity. I mean I wouldn't want my plots being judged solely on a checklist of requirements, but to also allow that human aspect of 'Hmm, well this could be doable'. I mean I'm not saying it will be a checklist but when you say rigorous I hear 'Set requirements'

Yes, it is about RP and there has been some great RP of this vein. We don't even want to get rid of international-themed RP. But we do want to refocus the staff effort on the on grid stuff and better supporting the world we actually play in. And while we are pulling that in, we want the court to be set up for success to be happy within this framework. We have decided we need to pull the staff focus in. We have discussed and like the idea of a council involving city metrics and we want to try it. We have rough ideas on how to handle court (re-envisioning them into this system), and we are soliciting thoughts here now about these sorts of things, and meeting with court this weekend for their thoughts. It sounds like a lot of them don't feel this is taking in their concerns, so maybe something else will be needed to account for that and their happiness. I don't think they will be happy with this pulled in focus and trying to exist in their current form, but we are definitely prepared to discuss how to handle it.

[Temi]

Bottom line, if it isn't broken (and it frankly isn't broken) don't fix it. But there is certainly room for improvement- so lets improve the tools and systems we have in place already.

I'm sorry, it's broken. I am saying as a staffer that does a lot of these international plots: I can't do it. I have nearly broken down on seeing just one more plot that feels like one person wanting me to RP the rest of the world, while no RP is added in Lithmore. It's not sustainable, and I won't ask anyone else to take up something I can't do. I have said we need to pull this in, and that's the non-negotiable in this. The rest is ideas to help reframe things and make the game better, especially given this necessary change. But we are going for a Lithmore-focus for staff support. If you need to blame someone, it's my fault.

[Romewhoa]

I, for one, am perfectly happy with this new change, but maybe that's because I'm new myself. Either way, I'm glad that there's a larger focus on Lithmore City itself. It's the base of the game, afterall, and there's plenty to do in it if you search, or better yet, create content in which the city can be enriched and filled from. It's only boring if you make it boring.

I don't know if stripping down guilds is necessary. I think it's possible for the game to simultaneously have a more focused narrative and yet also acknowledge the vast behind-the-scenes presence of an entire Kingdom. If anything, I think it fits having some of these Lords of Entire Organizations residing in the city. Gives the new Lithmore a grander and important feel. It's not just another Lord Justiciar. It's THE Lord Justiciar.

I don't think RP outside of the city is being completely removed, unless I misread, just scaled back a lot so that Lithmore can get more attention.

[chronodbu]

Okay so, on risk of sounding either confrontational or simply not really agreeable, I'm going to state my piece on this:

The change feels heavy handed on the part of staff. Nobody was included in this decision making process which makes it feel disconnected from the playerbase. The general feeling of decisions like this can and do make it feel as if our input is otherwise not respected for the issue. Yes, anyone can say that you work tirelessly to make sure the game is running properly. Yes, I do respect that and in no way am attempting to undermine or insult you by writing this post but there are multiple issues that I see with the change which, for the most part have been voiced by players so far.

Unfortunately, as the case may be, I feel as if said concerns are ignored or simply swept under the rug by the big vision of the change.

The change feels like something everyone directly affected should have been involved in, which for the most part is the majority of the player base. You can't cherry pick court telling them that the issue is rooted there when a very vocal minority of the player base cries foul because they don't get their way. Nor can you tell us that the change is solely for the idea of breaking away from the international plot cycle. If we're doing that, then all of the guilds would require a restructuring ranks wise as has been mentioned previously.

This means no more Justiciar, Grand Magnate, Earl Marshal, etc. All of these, directly in theme are the patriarchs/matriarchs of their respective guilds across the duchies. By their very essence, their theme deals with the external as well as what's going on in Lithmore.

Essentially: What you're trying to tell us is you want to move away from the inter-duchy politics and focus solely on the city while only punishing the players tied to court.

Keep in mind that no Noble that holds lands outside of the Lithmorran Duchy actually has any reason to be in Lithmore City without it being utterly tied to Inter-Duchy politics. They simply have no reason to be and their lands would matter far too much to them to do so.

[Temi]

The change feels heavy handed on the part of staff. Nobody was included in this decision making process which makes it feel disconnected from the playerbase. The general feeling of decisions like this can and do make it feel as if our input is otherwise not respected for the issue. Yes, anyone can say that you work tirelessly to make sure the game is running properly. Yes, I do respect that and in no way am attempting to undermine or insult you by writing this post but there are multiple issues that I see with the change which, for the most part have been voiced by players so far.

We -are- asking and talking to everyone now! Everything isn't decided. Hell, we could just decide to fire me and skip my ultimatum on we can't do this.

[Voxumo]

Having had most of my concerns answered or at least acknowledged, I shall hold off on saying anything else until this change has a chance to be implemented. However there is one other minor thing I would like to add to what Chronodbu said, in regards to the outside of lithmore policy.

Nor can you tell us that the change is solely for the idea of breaking away from the international plot cycle. If we're doing that, then all of the guilds would require a restructuring ranks wise as has been mentioned previously.

This means no more Justiciar, Grand Magnate, Earl Marshal, etc. All of these, directly in theme are the patriarchs/matriarchs of their respective guilds across the duchies. By their very essence, their theme deals with the external as well as what's going on in Lithmore.

Essentially: What you're trying to tell us is you want to move away from the inter-duchy politics and focus solely on the city while only punishing the players tied to court.

Keep in mind that no Noble that holds lands outside of the Lithmorran Duchy actually has any reason to be in Lithmore City without it being utterly tied to Inter-Duchy politics. They simply have no reason to be and their lands would matter far too much to them to do so.

The concept of Nobles rely heavily on Non-Lithmore lands, so by wanting to redirect focus and avoid non-lithmore theme, wouldn't it be best to also get rid of nobles in general, whose actual power as nobles come directly from lands outside of Lithmore. I mean I've always been against the removal of nobles, but if the game truly is trying to redirect focus onto just Lithmore, well Nobles kind of put a hamper on that. And I don't mean the players of Nobles, but the mere existence of nobles on Grid.

[chronodbu]

Having had most of my concerns answered or at least acknowledged, I shall hold off on saying anything else until this change has a chance to be implemented. However there is one other minor thing I would like to add to what Chronodbu said, in regards to the outside of lithmore policy.

Nor can you tell us that the change is solely for the idea of breaking away from the international plot cycle. If we're doing that, then all of the guilds would require a restructuring ranks wise as has been mentioned previously.

This means no more Justiciar, Grand Magnate, Earl Marshal, etc. All of these, directly in theme are the patriarchs/matriarchs of their respective guilds across the duchies. By their very essence, their theme deals with the external as well as what's going on in Lithmore.

Essentially: What you're trying to tell us is you want to move away from the inter-duchy politics and focus solely on the city while only punishing the players tied to court.

Keep in mind that no Noble that holds lands outside of the Lithmorran Duchy actually has any reason to be in Lithmore City without it being utterly tied to Inter-Duchy politics. They simply have no reason to be and their lands would matter far too much to them to do so.

The concept of Nobles rely heavily on Non-Lithmore lands, so by wanting to redirect focus and avoid non-lithmore theme, wouldn't it be best to also get rid of nobles in general, whose actual power as nobles come directly from lands outside of Lithmore. I mean I've always been against the removal of nobles, but if the game truly is trying to redirect focus onto just Lithmore, well Nobles kind of put a hamper on that. And I don't mean the players of Nobles, but the mere existence of nobles on Grid.

As much as removing Non-Lithmorran Nobility would make sense, barring the rare exception, I don't really feel that should be done. There are players who have been playing their foreign Nobles for quite some time now, built up quite a bit with them, and invested time and energy into their story. Telling them that they have to drop that is not really fair to them.

[Ismael]

Many of the points have been valid and have drawn the staff to discussion, however I fail to comprehend how this would shun off the possibility to roleplay a non-Lithmorran noble, starting from the fact that the city council has race relationships as a city meter; to the fact that Lithmore is the literal city of opportunity, ergo a worthy reason why an invitation to the City Council of Lithmore is an ever-so-worth opportunity for a noble lord intending to approach politics; finally the fact that the Court Guild is absolutely not the only way a noble represents their land in Lithmore. Generalizing the noble class as a group that only approaches Lithmore to represent but not to weave is a misconception in my personal opinion. In fact, we have a few nobles who are not even in the Court guild. Representation, however, is still be a possibility; just like a banker, you can roleplay being in Lithmore for the betterment of your patch of land, through mercantile deals and negotiations. You can't expect other noble lords with whom you can sign deals to be out of Lithmore - this is a place of politicking and being a part of the City Council allows you to weave your own interests into Lithmore.

This is, however, my own unofficial appreciation on the trend that this thread is starting, and my own input as a player of the game.