Whererp off by default

[Dice]

I know I'd prefer also knowing that, if someone is on where, they -want- me to show up.

[Gerolf]

I am just going to toss out we are actually really spoiled with our Where command. Most of the other games I have played you have to actively go looking for RP

[Ava]

Oh yeah. I'm not saying where should disappear! I think that it should represent an active intention to roleplay, though, to function more usefully.

[Pixie]

Knee-jerk reaction is preferring whererp to be left as-is, but the more I think about it the more I prefer the opposite. We do tend to consider whererp on as an invitation, and if the default was off, turning it on would complete that thought/notion. You'd know for sure it wasn't left on by accident; when somebody has whererp on they're actively and purposely inviting you to RP.

I think I'm with Ava and Dice. Preference is for off by default.

[The_Last_Good_Dragon]

I would also love it if where-rp were off by default. It's automtically turned on in 'public' rooms and you can't disable it, and I'd much rather know looking at the list that the people on it are looking for / ammenable to me showing up.

[Kinaed]

I have strong feelings about this and believe it is best for TI on the whole, even if it is inconvenient for some players, for whereRP to default on. Sorry, guys.

To provide context so that this doesn't seem completely arbitrary:

TI is a social game. It's a player's responsibility to either turn off whereRP or adapt to the fact that they forgot to turn it off. First, this tells everyone that there is a cultural expectation that people are where they are in game. Second, it means everyone is personally responsible for their RP status. Thirdly, it shows that we expect people to be open for RP as a baseline. Ultimately, it sets the game up to generate more RP than would otherwise happen.

Whereas a lot of people being online in a hidden or inaccessible area may be daunting to a new player, it still demonstrates that there are people around happy to RP. Having personally logged into RP MUDs with 25 people on the wholist and 3 people on the MUD's equivalent of "where", I can assure you that I strongly feel the former is better than the latter from the perspective of a new player.

For those players who want whereRP to default off, it's absolutely fine to set your client to check your RP status and toggle it off on login. It is also fine to manually turn it off. Either way, that is you taking responsibility to set your own RP status the way you want it to be. People are allowed to want RP off, and I have no issues with that - but the game isn't going to be responsible for giving players privacy or private time, it must be sought out. In fact, people can fail to secure privacy - if you have whereRP off and someone walks in, tough toodles, your character is still there, and you are still expected to RP. This is TI's long-standing policy.

As for wondering if someone really wants you there - I think it's completely reasonable to assume that if someone has whereRP on, then they do want you there. If they didn't, they should have turned whereRP off, pure and simple. And everyone should know it's their job to turn it off, so they can't hold it against you or anyone else responding to the invitation.

[Ava]

"I think it's completely reasonable to assume that if someone has whereRP on"...

... Hm. Its role as a flag of availability is empty if it's only true for say half, so you're still left guessing who really means it and who doesn't. If I have an OOC reason for being on for just ten minutes, I will still have to exit on that person.

But I understand your point (it's an optics thing?), even if I disagree with it. I will set up a login trigger.

[The_Last_Good_Dragon]

Whereas a lot of people being online in a hidden or inaccessible area may be daunting to a new player, it still demonstrates that there are people around happy to RP. Having personally logged into RP MUDs with 25 people on the wholist and 3 people on the MUD's equivalent of "where", I can assure you that I strongly feel the former is better than the latter from the perspective of a new player.

I actually rather strongly disagree with this opinion; as a new player coming from a game with one of those 3-people-visible wheres, I found it extremely frustrating the way that, on TLI, there's typically a majority of people who are either in a private location or are in a spot but NOT actively wanting RP. I can't tell you how many times I would see two people in a spot like "A tiled entryhall" or some such, scour the grid for that location, then realize it's a phome and that no, I'm not actually invited. Or, many other times when I'd come across a scene and discover that, no, they weren't looking for RP, they were just in a public location so the game told me that they did have 'whereRP' on for them. It was beyond frustrating for me when I was new, and honestly still often is.

For those players who want whereRP to default off, it's absolutely fine to set your client to check your RP status and toggle it off on login. It is also fine to manually turn it off. Either way, that is you taking responsibility to set your own RP status the way you want it to be. People are allowed to want RP off, and I have no issues with that - but the game isn't going to be responsible for giving players privacy or private time, it must be sought out. In fact, people can fail to secure privacy - if you have whereRP off and someone walks in, tough toodles, your character is still there, and you are still expected to RP. This is TI's long-standing policy.

As for wondering if someone really wants you there - I think it's completely reasonable to assume that if someone has whereRP on, then they do want you there. If they didn't, they should have turned whereRP off, pure and simple. And everyone should know it's their job to turn it off, so they can't hold it against you or anyone else responding to the invitation.

I'd agree with this ... if so many spots weren't flagged as public, forcing me to act as if I do want more people to get engaged in a scene. Mind you: I do like that public spots, such as the common rooms of inns or the busiest squares, force us to show up on the who list, but private dining rooms show up on whereRP, most storefronts, many other quasi-public areas.

Speaking from experience, the WhereRP list has almost always failed me when I've been searching for someone to RP with. Certainly there's not a 100% failure rate, but it's probably something like 90% of the time I see a spot on WhereRP and go hunting for it I find out that the person didn't mean to have it on, or the spot isn't even one I can access, or it's a pair of friends chatting at a bar not looking for others to clutter a scene because they're both kinda busy OOCly but wanted to throw some motes together since they saw each other on.

[Dice]

Agree with Dragon in that all my previous games with where had it default off, and I never minded seeing only 3 people on where, because I KNEW those 3 people were up for me to crash if need be. Even if you should be able to assume people on where want RP, honestly, you can't.

The issue of 'where' just not working as a tool to find RP is why I agree with Ava.

[BattleJenkins]

I've been thinking on this problem a bit, and...


(image: 'Why don't we have both?')

I think we need to take a look at how whererp is designed, and how people have differing opinions of how it should work - some people take it as an active invitation to RP, while some take it as some general indicator of where other players are that one shouldn't have much stock in since it's on by default. So, instead of having it be off/on, I propose whereRP have three states:

Private (Do not show up on where - set manually)
Visible (Show up on where - the default setting)
Invitation (Show up on where with a special color or marker - set manually, unsets when changing rooms)

In addition, we could possibly offer some sort of benefit to going to a public room and setting your status to 'invitation' to encourage people. Another neat idea might be to expand where's functionality a bit - perhaps the invitation setting could come with an optional short tag that could suggest an idea of the kind of scene you'd be getting into (like "tavern brawl", "fancy party", "cheer up a sad fellow", etc.). If 'where' is meant to be a vehicle to invite others to RP, let's make it look more like an invitation!