Temi queries, "Do we have any player topics that want to be put on the list already, before we get going?"
Sansi holds out her empty hands. "I got nothing."
Temi states, "I'll take that mostly deafening silence and a little bit of no as a no."
Temi grins.
Jozafat says, "I do."
Temi nods at Jozafat.
Jozafat says, "A minor thing for later."
Temi claims, "Okay, got you on the list. Anyone else - feel free to send a tell if you think of something."
Jozafat nods.
Temi says, "Staff updates then. You heard what Kin's been up to."
Sansi goes to make a grilled cheese sandwich.
Temi says, "For me, I'm doing a little bit of story prep work for folks. And I've been continuing to work on the asset templates."
Temi says, "The updated list is up on the forums - readjusted some based on discussions with folks, and to make them a little more guild-separate"
Vicannia is loving some of the "negative" ones
Temi claims, "All of those are in the system now, though they still need the objects you can redeem from them instead of just money, for a better rate."
Temi trails off, "Quick question for folks... if there's something like a brewing job or a crafting job or something like that"
Temi wonders, "Would you rather be able to redeem for finished products or for ingredients?"
Temi wonders, "And would that be different for like a shop instead of a job?"
Vicannia claims, "I feel like if the job is actually brewing or crafting something, finished product would be better, and ingredients would be more for people who grow stuff that goes into brewing and other crafts"
Rimilde questions, "Would the finished objects be retoolable or set the way they are?"
Temi says, "Not sure how that's set up, probably retoolable."
Vicannia nods
Empena states, "It might depend on skill level, if you are still at the point you are leveling being able to run the craft could be useful"
Temi claims, "It doesn't depend on skill level though, in the set up. So I need to determine how to set it up."
Luella questions, "If your RPing doing the craft, shouldn't you have the skill to back up that recipe before getting the item?"
Temi claims, "It could be considered your boss lets you have some extra supplies or something, in lieu of payment."
Luella says, "Aah"
Empena nods.
Temi says, "But it doesn't sound like a lot of strong opinions set yet on that. Will probably discuss more with staff."
Vicannia states, "Not a fan of assets being able to supply ingredients... It's hard enough already to get people to buy ingredients from players, don't really like the idea of something else encouraging not to."
Temi asks, "So! Niamh, do you have an update for us?"
Temi nods at Vicannia.
Niamh says, "This week I went through leatherworking and fleshed it out for a smoother leveling experience, focusing especially on the choppy bits we had toward grandmaster. Also combed through objects for appropriate forageables for the Southside rubbish heap, which now has lots of mostly gross and sometimes interesting things to ferret up out of the garbage. The higher your forage skill the more stuff you can find, which doesn't just apply to the rubbish! Lots of stuff cropping up all over for those who forage and raise the skill."
Niamh claims, "Annnd that's it for me, beyond the usual requests and typo stuff."
Luella says, "Props for imported fur codpiece... Wow."
Niamh grins.
Empena laughs.
Allyn muses to Niamh, "Is Jimmy Hoffa a .0000000000001% chance of finding?"
Sauvaige declares, "Ha!"
Niamh claims to Allyn, "If you can find him you win TI."
Temi wonders, "Isn't that what every stylish nobleman needs?"
Temi grins at Luella.
Jozafat laughs at Allyn.
Sauvaige needs a codpiece for his noble
Niamh states to Temi, "Every house robe should come with a luxurious mink codpiece."
Sauvaige one with an arrow launcher in it
Jozafat says to Luella, "There are loin cloths at the hillman village for sale. Just saying."
Temi grins.
Temi says, "Nothing at the hill village is 'luxurious' though."
Jozafat exclaims, "LIES!"
Vicannia claims, "By your definition"
Temi nods at Vicannia.
Niamh chuckles.
Temi claims, "I think that's in the definition 'has never been touched by hillfolk'"
Temi queries, "Anyway! Player heartbeat! How's RP been this week, folks?"
Allyn has lost link.
Allyn has reconnected.
Empena states, "Good, personally."
Allyn grumbles.
Vicannia says, "The little bit I rped was okay... Though mucking up words in a rumor were honestly more fun, seeing the outcome of that."
Jozafat says, "Very good, even if I played less. The Laxus thing was powerful."
Temi nods.
Gildarts pontificates, "Not too bad! Hoping to find some more performances this week! "
Allyn says, "Hey, there's a lot of sentiment behind that gravel rock, okay.(was in response to no hillman luxury)"
Eirian is idle.
Eirian is no longer idle.
Eirian has returned from AFK.
Sauvaige claims, "Good! About to drop a new noble onto the grid once I finish up all the strings and whatnot. "
Temi muses, "Sounds pretty good on the whole! Anything shitting anybody that the staff ought to know about? Or that the staff ought to know in general?"
Rimilde pontificates, "Er, not a negative thing, but a positive one. Noticing a lot of great use of moods out there, it's great. Thank you to those that do it, always fun to have something to get RP going with!"
Sansi holds up a cheese sandwich. "I got nothing. Oh, except this sandwich."
Vicannia ponders "Nothing shitting me that hasn't already been for a long time."
Gildarts tries to take the cheese sandwich!
Temi nods.
Temi declaims, "Look out, Reeves, cheese thief on the loose!"
Jozafat files a tax report.
"NO." Sansi eats the whole sandwich, cheeks bulging. [Sansi]
Rimilde claims, "Cheese tax... now that's an idea."
Temi pontificates to Rimilde, "Good to hear that's been nice!"
Niamh comforts Vicannia.
Vicannia states, "Could just make it an import tax, that would likely cover cheese"
Sauvaige exclaims, "You can take my cheese from my cold dead hands!"
Jozafat trails off to Sansi, "That can be arranged..."
Temi says, "I think most cheese will be local, really."
Sansi stands stolidly by Sauvaige. "CHEESE FOWEVAH."
Vicannia holds up several vials of oddly colored liquids to Sauvaige "Choose your poison."
Allyn will now play the part of that 'king' that Ferris Bueller uses in Ferris Bueller's day off.
Niamh wonders, "Who ever heard of Tubori cheese? What would it be made of?"
Jozafat states, "Decadence."
Niamh claims, "Coconuts."
Sauvaige claims, "People"
Allyn states to Niamh, "Bad decisions"
Niamh states, "All three."
Niamh claims, "FOUR"
Temi says, "Okay! Going on to player topics then."
Temi wonders, "Jozafat, you had a topic for us?"
Jozafat nods.
Jozafat uses a black knight figurine with cracks detailed into its armor as a puppet, imitating Laxus' voice: "Laxus wants to know if bank transfers don't return any confirmation string! Laxus made two identical transfers by mistake because of it!"
Temi trails off, "I thought they had some confirmation string..."
Vicannia says, "They do not make any confirmation returns, unless of course they are refused, then they are red"
Temi states, "I see 'Your payment has been accepted.'"
Jozafat states, "It could be my Blowtorch client --"
Jozafat wonders to Vicannia, "Yeah?"
Eirian claims, "They say 'Your payment has been accepted' or something like that."
Temi nods at Eirian.
Jozafat states, "I didn't see nuthin'. Could be Blowtorch then."
Temi asks, "When you pay or later on?"
Rimilde says, "I've never gotten a confirmation either."
Vicannia should clarify they though jozafat meant whether or not the payments get to the person or guild they are suppose to...
Jozafat states, "When I transfer. I thought nothing had happened so I tried again. Then I noticed the mistake on pay lidt."
Jozafat states, "List"
Eirian questions, "Might be a difference between pay and gpay, or maybe one-time versus weekly?"
Niamh says, "Hrm. I think on your "pay list" it goes grey when it's gone through."
Jozafat says, "I mean the Your payment has been accepted. Right as you pay. Not when the transfer actually happens."
Eirian says, "Grey when it goes through, white/light grey when it's pending."
Niamh nods.
Eirian states, "Red if it doesn't go through due to inactivity, etc."
Temi nods.
Empena claims, "Some of the mobile clients don't colourize things correctly, Mukluk doesn't eithet"
Jozafat claims, "Well. I'll try with another client."
Jozafat trails off, "Moving on..."
Temi nods.
Temi questions, "Anything else from you then?"
Jozafat lifts a golden-haired Seneschal doll attired in most stately garb this time and makes a horrid impression of lyo's voice: "Jozafat wants to apologise for bugging people with his invasive ST RP! And thanks the enthusiasm he's gotten on the Personals Pboard! It's rat hunting time!"
Vicannia wouldn't really consider what you've done as invasive
Temi states, "I have been working on some new guidelines to help us with running STs that have pre-work"
Temi asks, "Would people want to discuss those ideas?"
Jozafat says to Vicannia, "Rat moods, mobs, and messengers."
Jozafat claims to Vicannia, "Oh I now get what you said."
Vicannia trails off, "Not any worse than the usual... Though the random spreading of corpserot, if that was your doing, may have been a bit invasive"
Rimilde claims, "I would be keen to discuss that, yes and would welcome guidelines. I appreciate when people put in effort to drive RP and if there are things we can do to support them and give clarity ahead of time, I think that would be beneficial."
Jozafat claims to Vicannia, "It wasn't
"Temi claims, "And thank you to Jozafat for rolling with it and trying out the story! This isn't his fault, but rather staff's for not having clear guidelines. He's been trying his best to keep us in the loop with everything."
Gildarts has been transferred out by Temi. [OOC]
Rimilde pontificates, "Also thanks Jozafat for your work, I've had a great time with this!"
Allyn sits down and rests.
Temi claims, "So the few issues that we've discovered: 1) players thinking that they have to be involved because it's happening, but because it's a story, it should be optional, 2) players wanting more information from staff, but we're not running it so don't have the details"
Rimilde questions, "Curious, can players run plots that do involve the whole game or only STs which are optional?"
Jozafat claims, "Yes."
Vicannia says, "To be fair, when it's such a large scale thing as this, it's a bit hard not to feel like you have to be involved."
Creston is idle.
Temi claims, "So the suggestions I have are:
1. No moods or messengers or general lead-up activities that go to non-participants.
2. Nothing player run for stories outside of the story system. Of course, IC actions of the person doing stuff can always be done whenever with no story.
3. For a pre-event setting, maybe an IC Event post with mood-setting stuff that should mention it's a story and who should contact.
4. Smaller events before the big event day could also be run as stories, with the system, and can be run inside the same story codewise. "
Empena states, "Because if you ignore it others might see it as you ignoring the RP world"
Jozafat says, "To be honest, I got my inspiration for a city wide event from the White Flame."
Temi nods.
Vicannia trails off, "But the white flame was staff ran..."
Temi claims, "Yeah, it was a different beast, which is why we're running into some growing pains."
Luella has been transferred out by Niamh. [OOC]
Jozafat states, "I didn't know back then that staff events were different."
Temi claims, "White flame was not optional, player-run story, so it needs some different framework"
Jozafat states, "Right."
Temi nods.
Eirian questions, "Is there a recourse for people who feel like they're being pressured to participate or engage in a story even though they haven't opted-in?"
Rimilde states, "Personally I have no issue with moods and messengers so long as a player has vetted their ideas through staff to make sure they are thematic and appropriate, but that's just my own opinion."
Temi queries to Eirian, "What sort of recourse would you think of for that?"
Jozafat states to Rimilde, "Well I shouldn't have involved or even addressed non participants."
Jozafat states, "Even more, before the ST had been 'published'."
Creston is no longer idle.
Creston has returned from AFK.
Eirian claims, "I'm recalling the issues I had with the Vintrius story, because that was optional and yet I was being pressured to engage ICly by someone who wasn't even running it."
Temi nods.
Eirian claims, "And it would have been nice if there had been a helpfile or some instruction or recourse for "what to do if""
Eirian wonders, "Like, can I ask staff to step in and say, 'Tone down this RP, this is a story?"
Creston claims, "I like the idea that stories can be more than flippant one offs"
Eirian queries, "Or, so-and-so has already opted out, please stop pressuring them to participate?"
Temi asks, "Would it help if these things were more clearly labeled as stories?"
Rimilde questions, "That raises an issue, if there is an ST that involves issues that would thematically involve people that don't want to be involved, how would that be balanced? Like if someone does an ST involving a mass arrest, or hunting out a criminal, it's hard to separate that from IC actions for a Reeve. How would that be addressed? I as a player could say I don't want to be involved, but wouldn't people be like, why aren't they involved when they should be?"
Eirian says, "This is the difficult grey area, that separates a plot and a story, in my mind."
Vicannia claims, "Could always just drop the person bringing it up icly a tell or personal board note and say "Hey, I'm not wishing to get involved in this since it's a story, and most people would respect that.""
Niamh nods.
Jozafat claims to Rimilde, "The guideline does state minimal imact"
Jozafat claims, "Impact. Thus why I went for things like moods, mobs and messengers."
Creston claims, "I think Elzenn's white flame story was great"
Eirian states, "I don't think it's ideal to have the person or people potentially being pressured have to be the ones who say 'No thank you.' But if that's the guideline, at least it's a guideline, which is better than nothing, imo."
Sansi wonders, "Maybe there can be two types of stories? one-offs and more impaction stories that need more vetting?"
Jozafat declaims, "My aim by masking that this was an ST was not to put people into the safe mindset involving STs. I wanted you folks uncertain and scared!
"Sansi says, "Impactful*"
Eirian claims, "That, to me, sounds like a plot."
Eirian states, "Whereas a story comes with the minimal impact rules, etc."
Jozafat states to Eirian, "But it's beyond my character, hence why I didn't make a plot."
Sansi states, "Right"
Temi claims, "We don't really have great set-up for player run plots headers. It would pretty much be the staff having to run it for you."
Vicannia shrugs towards Eirian "I'd rather have somebody offer me the chance at potential rp, than ignore me and keep me out of said rp simply because I didn't "sign up" for it. But that's just me."
Creston says, "The problem with plots is they don't allow you any agency to have RP outside of personal"
Temi claims, "Barcus's was actually an attempt at a player-run plot that was.. rather awkward for different reasons."
Jozafat says, "Joza is completely unaware of the truth behind the rat menace -- exactly Creston."
Eirian states to Vicannia, "Being offered a chance is one thing. Being pressured to the point of having to OOCly say something is another."
Empena states, "Even a General announcement something is happening would clue people in. For a while when I reacted to the moods people sort of implied I was over reacting. Personally I've really enjoyed what I've been involved as a player."
Jozafat says, "You should see Rimilde sending Jozafat into the HQ rooms to clear the rats while she peeks over his shoulder."
Rimilde glares at Jozafat.
Jozafat eeps!
Sauvaige is idle.
Sauvaige is no longer idle.
Sauvaige declares, "Ha!"
Sauvaige has returned from AFK.
Temi grins.
Temi asks, "So, it sounds like people are a bit divided on whether stories should necessarily be minimal impact?"
Sansi states, "Sounds that way to me."
Jozafat I think that for huge plots you should instead become a GM
Jozafat claims, "Stories rather."
Eirian claims to Temi, "In any case, food for thought, re: guidelines. I think your suggestion of better labeling might help in certain circumstances, such as when there could be ripple-effects that can't be controlled necessarily by the person running the ST."
Temi nods at Eirian.
Creston states, "The ripple effect is the fun part"
Rimilde says, "My main point is that the guidelines would be great so people know what to do, because i love seeing players start stuff like this, but have certainly seen people face hurdles because they weren't sure what to do when."
Creston states, "IMO"
Rimilde nods in agreement with Creston.
Eirian states, "Or if it IS a plot and the plot IS opt-in, having that labeled for folks would be nice, too."
Sansi claims, "Well, any story would potentially provide character development, which makes ripple effects. No story is an island."
Allyn claims, "I know I tend to say away from stories, simply because it usually involves massive numbers of people and that's rp i don't like, so I think stories should stay separate so I (and others with the same thoughts) aren't forced into rp we don't want to be a part of."
Jozafat says, "Unless it takes place on an island."
Eirian grins at Jozafat.
Temi nods at Allyn.
Jozafat says to Allyn, "I have eight slots exactly because any more would overwhelm md."
Jozafat states to Temi, "Speaking of which you need to tell me if Joza counts as a slot or not."
Rimilde says, "I don't think we can entirely isolate stories unless they become something that is separated from the grid (maybe they are I've always been unclear), because it will seep into RP and should, I mean it's a non-consensual RP game, we don't always get to pick and chose what happens to us, and that adds to the excitement."
Temi says, "Obviously, we don't intend for people to keep character developments to themselves, this stuff can ripple out. Just the ripples of actively doing something."
Vicannia shrugs "If there is any rp involved in a story, then frankly that story should be treated icly. By people choosing to not opt-in, it's also setting the precedence for them to ignore the entirety of the story, even if the end results are worth notice. Afterall anything that happens icly should be treated icly, is that not the common theme of the game. Even if you don't actively get involved in the story, it doesn't mean you should act like the story doesn't exist."
Temi claims to Jozafat, "I already told you I have no clue."
Rimilde states, "I agree. Otherwise it's a slippery slope to people opting in and out of what is happening in-game and that will get confusing at the best of times. But that's just my opinion
"Vicannia says, "To my knowledge jozafat, the person running the story does not consume a slot."
Temi says, "I think I would rather keep stories to minimal impact things that do separate a bit better, for simplicity from my staffly stake."
Vicannia says to Jozafat, "At least the last time I ran a story that is how it was."
Temi claims, "So the avoidance is mainly 'am I there on the day of or not' rather than 'will all these lasting impacts need to be something I dal with'"
Eirian says, "Minimal impact is not the same as no-impact. I think the fact that it's minimal acknowledges that there will be some impact. But there's a difference between developing your character through a one-off adventure that your character talks and thinks about later and an ongoing affair where guildleaders are pressured into acting on something they have no control over because it's in someone else's hands."
Temi nods at Eirian.
Jozafat queries to Temi, "I know you did
But I'm running out of slots 
Should I ask Kinky?"Karim states, "I'd have to agree with Eirian."
Jozafat claims to Vicannia, "Thanks."
Temi asks of Jozafat, "Maybe Az? But it sounds like maybe it doesn't"
Jozafat smiles and nods.
Temi claims, "We should be able to adjust number of slots so fill what you want to fill"
Jozafat perks and nods nods nods.
Temi queries, "Okay. Anything else folks want to talk about then? We have about ten minutes left"
Vicannia says, "Frankly I'd welcome any story that is more than just a hack and slash like so many are. If that means the story extends a bit beyond it's normal boundaries... well this is a game about telling a story, and is non-consensual. If someone is pressured into acting icly, then they should just deal with it, because it's happening icly. If they were being pressured oocly, that's a different story."
Jozafat exclaims, "I have 2 free slots then! A second bard would be welcomed!"
Eirian questions to Jozafat, "Am I currently occupying one of your slots?"
Temi states to Vicannia, "The problem is we give players who run them complete control over outcomes and things, and we don't want to subject players to that who aren't comfortable with it."
Empena raises her hand with a question.
Temi muses to Empena, "Yep?"
Rimilde questions, "On the flip side, what if a story is closed to specific people but its something that would affect your PC, how is that approached?"
Karim states to Vicannia, "The problem is that some of us don't want to deal with what could very possibly be a rather inane plot being made by a player that we quite frankly don't want to deal with."
Karim says, "And should have that choice."
Temi states to Rimilde, "If they explicitly involve someone else, we'd generally want that person on board before approving it"
Vicannia trails off to Karim, "Firstly, if you don't want to get involved with a plot simply because of the player running it... well that's incredibly petty. Secondly, if it is brought up to you icly...well you have the choice not to get involved, but it would be an ic action... "
Temi states, "Because you are putting yourself into the player's OOC hands, not their IC, code-moderated ones, it's opt-in."
Niamh claims, "That doesn't apply to stories. They're opt-in for a reason."
Niamh nods at Temi.
Jozafat claims to Eirian, "Yes you have one slot"
Eirian wonders to Jozafat, "If I were fatter, would I need two?"
Jozafat states to Eirian, "It depends if larger than Joza."
Niamh trails off, "With a cheese tax, you wouldn't have to worry about it..."
Sansi says to Vicannia, "It might be petty and it might not be, but that's"
Sansi says, "But that's the player's prerogative"
Temi trails off, "Okay. If no one has anything else then, we can go ahead and call this before there's too much more talk of cheese and Temi gets hungry..."
Niamh grins at Temi.
Karim says to Vicannia, "It's not petty to want to avoid it because I simply don't trust the person involved."
Eirian declares, "Thanks for the meeting!"
Eirian waves.
Niamh pontificates, "Take care everyone!"
