Combat Issues & Bugs

[vaxin]

If you look at the arrest as the moment where your character is moving in to take physical control of said person (for example by grabbing him and then forcibly tying his hands together etc) does that clarify possible scenarios? This generally requires for the people to be up close and personal, already trying to grab the person.

That's absurd. If someone pulls out manacles, unclasps them, and tries to seize my wrists, I could back up out of arm's reach, turn around in the direction I came and run, or simply dodge out of the way. The idea that arrest presumes the character has physical control of the person undercuts the conflict resolution of the game. We have a system to determine whether someone has physical control of another, it's the combat code and even contest to a lesser extend. If you want to arrest someone that will be clearly unwilling, beat them up so that they can't resist or run away first.

Arrest is like drawing a sword, moving, and attacking in one emote. It doesn't give the other person any chance to react in a way they should be able to in order to gain a code advantage.

[Rabek]

To be fair, if you want to run away you can just do that for the first action of combat.

That said, the aggressor should have manacles in their hands at the start of combat rather than a weapon, and it should take time to switch.

[Famine]

To be fair, if you want to run away you can just do that for the first action of combat.

That said, the aggressor should have manacles in their hands at the start of combat rather than a weapon, and it should take time to switch.

That makes sense too. I would even say that having to be within a certain range and holding the item is pretty key. Doesn't seem that way now, but I certainly roleplay it as such to be fair to the opponent. The issue of course is they will almost always not accept and resist. Whether or not throwing a net is realistic or not, the act of first strike is what I think is important. If I could set a trap, that be cooler. Then my objective is to get people into said trap to begin with.

[Kinaed]

Wow, thanks for the eye openers. Can you bug all of those in-game on our bug board, please?

Sorry for the poor experiences.

[Kinaed]

Note: I've directed Azarial ro this thread. Sadly, Vox is right about my view on the nets, but the rest of those items should be addressed.

[Tasker]

If you look at the arrest as the moment where your character is moving in to take physical control of said person (for example by grabbing him and then forcibly tying his hands together etc) does that clarify possible scenarios? This generally requires for the people to be up close and personal, already trying to grab the person.

That's absurd. If someone pulls out manacles, unclasps them, and tries to seize my wrists, I could back up out of arm's reach, turn around in the direction I came and run, or simply dodge out of the way. The idea that arrest presumes the character has physical control of the person undercuts the conflict resolution of the game. We have a system to determine whether someone has physical control of another, it's the combat code and even contest to a lesser extend. If you want to arrest someone that will be clearly unwilling, beat them up so that they can't resist or run away first.

Arrest is like drawing a sword, moving, and attacking in one emote. It doesn't give the other person any chance to react in a way they should be able to in order to gain a code advantage.

I've seen a Mage quite easily escape from an arrest attempt such as that, so someone initiating an arrest is not the be all end all of the situation. If you want to back up, and run then you're more than capable of initiating those actions. (I'm not actually sure what starts off the combat as I've never been on the receiving end, other than trying to cast - but I'm fairly sure you can try to flee.) Perhaps you could even dust, and blind the arrester? So there are many ways to get the advantage, and it isn't just the end of the situation when the attempt is made.

[vaxin]

I've seen a Mage quite easily escape from an arrest attempt such as that, so someone initiating an arrest is not the be all end all of the situation. If you want to back up, and run then you're more than capable of initiating those actions. (I'm not actually sure what starts off the combat as I've never been on the receiving end, other than trying to cast - but I'm fairly sure you can try to flee.)

Arrest makes it so that you cannot leave the room. So, you cannot initiate those actions. Not only that but you must start off combat yourself, if you want to be able to flee. So when someone doesn't really want to be arrested but also doesn't want to hit a Knight or Reeve, they're out of luck.

[Starstarfish]

Sure, but what's the proposed solution, because in a non-consensual game giving people the out to never be arrested without permission will end up meaning no one gets arrested. It might need a balance, but there still needs to be some aspect of risk.

[Famine]

Personally, I feel it should just be based on distance. At some point, if you try to arrest someone and close enough, some type of event needs to happen that simulates someone actually putting their hands on you to secure you enough to actually restrain you with some type of object. Once that happens, a check can be made to either be success or failure.

For example, the first action is to restrain with a object towards a target. This is going to give the victim the opportunity to submit or not at any distance. They can still decline and move away without being attacked or whatever. They have freedom to do whatever action they like.

If they do not submit, the next action is to restrain the victim. This means, the first command is restrain <victim> <object>, the second is restrain <victim>. The restrain <victim> only works if within range to where it's restraining involuntarily without submission. In other words, you have to be within 0 range and it's like the opponent physically restraining the victim with their strength. This is going to be a check that either is successful or fails based on the victims strength.

The bigger and more strong you are, the more people it takes to restrain you. At some point, you should allow restraining to happen forcefully to a point where someone can overpower someone, twist their arms and restrain them. It seems logical and the right thing to do versus just asking them to submit or not, which likely will never happen if it's made to where you can move freely without issue.

But that's just me. I think it's totally fine if restrain works forcefully within a certain range. Just not across the room unless something like a net has ranged force restraint because it can be thrown.

[Temi]

Arrest or restrain is not physically having someone to arrest them. It's initiating the intent to arrest them and asking the code to start mediating that attempt. Someone can flee from such an attempt, but it's not the same as just walking away - someone is trying to grab them. Thus, it should use the flee code rather than being able to just leave. I do think there's a sticky point in the indication to transition from 'deciding how to react' to resisting, but fleeing is a decision to resist and should have rolls associated with it, not just auto-succeeds.